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Enough with the dishonest behaviour Truthers - I'm calling you out.

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posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by steveknows
 


There was also an entire nation that followed that man, just as you are doing. Hitler would not have been able to do what he did with out his obedient little sheep. Don't follow a path, blaze a new trail. You're attacking, someone who is willing to challenge, and explore on his own, and you swallow what you're fed. I would think an individual such as yourself willing to challenge another individuals IQ based on his opinion would know that the life of a sheep ends in the slaughterhouse. Stop attacking him and challenging his IQ, and prove that he is wrong. You're being no better than he, by trying to prove your point by insulting him. In fact, when you lash out like that you're doing nothing but pushing him higher than yourself. Stop it, for your own sake. If you can not prove him wrong say nothing and let him fall on his own.




posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by karen61057
 


Very well done, you get a star for this I'm pleased to see someone taking a civilized approach to a very hot topic of debate. No matter where you stand on this, if anyone is hoping to prove anything stop insulting each other and act like adults. This thread is ridiculous.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by plube
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


End of the day...Planes were used ....as the hijacking was never ever really confirmed was it...it was stated as fact to the public....also we don't know who was flying the planes at the time of the hijacking...was it the pilots....was it the hijackers...or was it ptech and mitre or System Planning Corporation......do we know for sure....was there a criminal investigation into the hijacking...and was there any trails or court cases concerning the hijacking...As far as i know there was not...It is still all conjecture is it not....

I am not being silly here...i am being questioning...why would i just believe they were hijacked....I mean really a group would come forward and say they did it...did this happen...nope....

out of all the debris....they manage to find a hijackers passport....interesting state of affairs...but they could not manged to find a black box...paper passport vs fire proof hardened encased black box....hmmmm

i find that very strange indeed...and you would not even question such things....Why?

computer control backdoor

Most national security computerized systems that would have scrambled jets in the event of national emergencies such as multiple hijackings were running on Ptech software. A list of Ptech clients includes the FAA, N.A.T.O, United States Armed Forces, Congress, Dept. Of Energy, Dept. of Justice, FBI, Customs, the IRS, the Secret Service, and even the White House.


his days were documented before, during and after his Pentagon stint, during which a total of $3.2 trillion went missing from Pentagon coffers, in an article for Online Journal, Following Dov Zakheim and Pentagon trillions to 9-11 and Israel, which you should all read in full.
In fact, the second loss of $2.3 trillion was announced on September 10, 2001, by Donald Rumsfeld and the story was buried the next day under the rubble of 9/11.

Dov Zakheim. Not many Americans know who he is, but they ignore him at their own peril. If for no other reason, a dual Israeli-American citizen as Comptroller and Chief Financial Officer of the United States Dept. of Defense should raise some eyebrows. He was also President Bush's senior foreign policy advisor during the 2000 campaign.
He was (is?) Corporate VP1 at System Planning Corporation, a major player in the "Homeland Security" industry. One of the products that SysPlan sells is the Command Transmitter System, a remote control system for planes, boats, missiles and other vehicles2 . It's highly customable and configurable to interface with an almost limitless number of vehicle types.

The remote control theory of 9/11 looks a little better every day.


NOTE all the above is well sourced in my signature thread..... so please feel free to find all sites and sources and additional information there.
Also note i am not saying this is the case...i am saying there is enough to make one question things...is that not what one should do...if one sees possible evidence should it not be investigated to discount it...was that done...nope it wasn't.....It was just decided...this is what happened and this is the way it is....wow....now that sounds more like a dictatorship...not a democracy.

edit on 093030p://f37Tuesday by plube because: (no reason given)

edit on 093030p://f39Tuesday by plube because: (no reason given)

edit on 093030p://f44Tuesday by plube because: (no reason given)


I do believe t hat the radio control towers talking about hijacked planes were released as well as radar so we know that planes were hijacked that day. As far as a trial against the hijackers you have to have a defendant in order to have a trial and since the hijackers all died there were no defendants to try afterwards.

Al Quida released a tape days after the attack claiming victory. I believe that constitues a group saying they did it.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by ZiggyMojo
Whoa whoa whoa.. I never said that the government did this.. But the government's story stinks like hell. There has been some critical facts omitted by the government and I don't know why. I do know that the official story doesn't add up. I'm not placing the blame on anyone, I'm simply stating my opinion towards the official story. I'm not even beginning to try and understand WHY the media and government haven't been more forthcoming with truths about the story.

It's called incompetence, organisations (proper English spelling for the pedants) are full of incompetence. Unfortunately some people don't believe this and think that everyone in large organisations is actually working towards some master conspiracy which is why there are discrepencies.

Incompetence, mistakes, arse covering, sloping shoulders etc etc is just plain normal human behaviour, The BBC story was a glorious example of incompetence at the end of a chain of chinese whispers. Unless you believe the US organisers of a monumental conspiracy are STUPID enough to tell ordinary UK reporters working for the BBC what was going to happen. By the way according to that news report the Marriott hotel had also collapsed DUH!



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by plube
reply to post by steveknows
 


Once again your ignorance has come to the forefront....just as i thought might be the possibilities....Did i say jews....Nope...Nada...Not once....and you have the audacity to go and call people names again....JEWs are a race of people...Of which many are my firends.

Zionists are a political movement.....the founder being one Theodore Herzl 1860-1904

i can see you are using your eyes here yet again....but for one who uses their eyes so much why is it you do not see.....I have been polite and show you possibilities and the only replies that come back are jibes and pokes which i am not sure why.

you chose not to as i see to look into what was said at all but it would seem you felt it necessary to come back with that,,,,so let me ask you why would you poke at Muslims for an attack that no one is absolutely sure they committed...like also was pointed out within minutes Of the attacks Ehud Barak was willing to point a finger in a certain direction.

Then you have the audacity to come back and think i am a Jew hater....coming from someone whom it would seem is a truther hater.....yet why should it matter to you....it was not your country that was attacked and your willing to let the 3000+ innocent to rest in peace on a bed of lies...and your willing to let the 100,000+ people whom have died in false wars go to their graves on a bed of lies....And you have the nerve to compare me to Hitler.......wow.

I can see you would rather choose to just see with your eyes and not use your other god given senses to figure out what happened on the day of 911.....

well i guess your in the right thread then....Because it would seem that no matter what gets presented you will discount as a truther lie even if the truth is in it....i guess the picture of Jeb Bush with the discover air people is ummmm...a lie...they must have been photoshoped in.

I guess Ehud Barak must have just guessed it was Al Qaeda so quickly after the attacks.....

I guess with John O'neil the fbi Agent closing in on the Al Qaeda deception was conveinently hired the day before 911 to the WTC just happened to die and beplaced there on the crime scene after his first day of work and then found intact 11 days laters on site...

but nope ...no decent reply to these questions....all makes perfect sense to you....

but as you did say i could not dig you out....

i know you are new to the site...and you will understand that these are personal attacks by you...and when someone resorts to personal attacks the only IQ they lower is their own...

I thank you for your negative responses and your lack of intellectual comebacks...i hope your journey in life takes you to where you want to go.
edit on 043030p://f49Tuesday by plube because: (no reason given)


Sorry got you mixed over the Jew thing with a different fantasy lover. There's a few of you on here.

But hey if you focusing on me in this thread has validated your existence then I'm glad you managed to achive it.

Peace be with you. And watch out for your government, going on what you've been saying you believe, they seem really nasty.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Ilyich
reply to post by steveknows
 


There was also an entire nation that followed that man, just as you are doing. Hitler would not have been able to do what he did with out his obedient little sheep. Don't follow a path, blaze a new trail. You're attacking, someone who is willing to challenge, and explore on his own, and you swallow what you're fed. I would think an individual such as yourself willing to challenge another individuals IQ based on his opinion would know that the life of a sheep ends in the slaughterhouse. Stop attacking him and challenging his IQ, and prove that he is wrong. You're being no better than he, by trying to prove your point by insulting him. In fact, when you lash out like that you're doing nothing but pushing him higher than yourself. Stop it, for your own sake. If you can not prove him wrong say nothing and let him fall on his own.


I do really analize what I'm about to swallow. But your'e right about all else.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by waypastvne
reply to post by ANOK
 


So are you still saying that all four walls are on top of the pile ?

The core collapsed first, do you think the core should be on top of the pile ?

Exactly what do you think should be on top of the pile for a fire induced collapse ?



The core, the basic physics involved in a fire would suggest the core would fall last. Fire needs oxygen to burn, in the WTC the plane crashes into the side of the building creating an opening and providing jet fuel to accelerate the flames. The building would be a somewhat sealed structure, the oxygen for the flames would have to come from the outside, in this case through the hole created by impact. Keep in mind the way the building was built, created a mesh of steel columns to protect the interior support structures from an impact from an aircraft. Now back to the fire, fire takes the path of least resistance, following both a source of fuel and oxygen. If there is no oxygen, there is no fire so in this case the relatively small opening prevents the fire from spreading to the interior, the fire would have no choice but to burn from the outside in, and would most likely follow the exterior of the structure spreading upwards long before it could burn inside the building. As well, because the flames would be generalized to the outside of the structure, if it was even possible for fire to destroy the steel it would fall outwards in a fashion similar to how we would remove the peel from a banana. In other words, the exterior walls would be exposed to the most heat. If the melting point or even a near melting point could be achieved they would be the first to go.

Keep in mind, for any of the steel to have come apart due to fire, an extremely hot, well oxygenated fire would have to burn for a significant amount of time with out the steels natural heat dissipating qualities coming into play. Keep in mind, this would also require the fire to remain localized on the same spot in the steel for it to weaken and eventually fail, and this goes against the natural progression of a fire. Fire follows the path of least resistance, burning only where there is fuel and oxygen. In a building constructed mainly of steel with concrete being the only other some what abundant material what was the fuel source ? If you say jet fuel, keep in mind jet fuel burns quickly, and once the jet fuel was gone what else was there to burn ?



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 

Hey ANOK,
I love the new glasses.
What are you doing here? This is troll bait. You can't communicate with trolls.
But, maybe a few people will learn something from you. I like the fact you don't get so much into the big picture....the whodunit organized crime Jewish/Bush/NWO syndicate. Just the facts that relate to the purposeful and premeditated destruction of the WTC complex. Gradually I believe people are coming around to accept the fact that it wasn't just a couple of planes and some 19 hijackers.
I say, thanks for your contributions, mate.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by waypastvne
reply to post by ANOK
 


So are you still saying that all four walls are on top of the pile ?


What do you mean 'still saying'? Why would I change my mind? You can clearly see walls from all four sides are on top of the rubble pile.


The core collapsed first, do you think the core should be on top of the pile ?


Without being controlled if the interior collapsed it would probably do nothing to the outer walls, and the collapse would arrest long before it ever got to the point it did.

That is what I think, but if you want to take it to the extreme then the interior would simply fall/push against the outer walls pushing them outwards, and the rubble would spill out out over them, falling outside of the footprint. The only way to get the walls to fall inwards, against the path of most resistance, is with very carefully timed explosives. (BTW we are talking WTC7 that did not have a 'core' like the towers)


Exactly what do you think should be on top of the pile for a fire induced collapse ?


Nothing, because the building would never have fallen from fire in the first place. But again if you want to look at the extreme then I have already explained it. Which I really shouldn't have to do, anyone with a basic grasp of physics, and structures, would already know that. It's common sense.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by spw184

Originally posted by CitizenNum287119327
reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


This is ATS and 'deny ignorance' is the catch cry here.



And if you knew even MORE about ATS, you would know that that is THE WORST POSSIBLE WAY TO DEBUNK SOMBODY. Gj.


I thought the BEST posSIBLE way tO DEbuNk somEonE was to PROVE A POINT. It appears I am incorrect as it is obviously through the artful use of CAPITALIZATION.

chagrined
edit on 13-9-2011 by primus2012 because: forgot to capitalize CAPITALIZATION



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by primus2012
 


By saying "Deny ignorance!!" Or "Deny Ignorance!! Ever heard of it??" or other phrases turns on a red light in my book. To me it's like saying: "Haha, your stupid."

Mmk?
Mmk.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 

It's unfortunate that this long post and the excellent information in it are going to get buried, but you have way too much false information in your OP that needs to be corrected.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
Here's some BS you can no longer claim to be true:

Yes, let's see how much of your "BS" is untrue, shall we?



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
1. No other building ever collapsed from fire - A BS argument

It's only a BS argument when you twist or otherwise alter the facts so that you create a manufactured argument to argue against.

The fact is, no steel-structured highrise (skyscraper) has ever collapsed due to fire before 9/11 or after.

9/11 was the only time in history that steel-structured highrises have collapsed due to fire. Not only once, but three times in one day. The first time is acceptable; second time is coincidental; third time is criminal.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
- No other buildings have been built like the Twin Towers

FALSE. The first use of the tube structure was the 43-story DeWitt-Chestnut Apartment Building in Chicago, Illinois which was completed in 1963:




The first building to apply the tube-frame construction was the DeWitt-Chestnut apartment building which Khan designed and which was completed in Chicago by 1963. This laid the foundations for the tube structural design of many later skyscrapers, including the John Hancock Center and Willis Tower, and the construction of the World Trade Center, Petronas Towers, Jin Mao Building, and most other supertall skyscrapers since the 1960s.
Source: Wiki

You read that right. Most supertall skyscrapers since the 1960s have a similar tube frame design as the WTC towers.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
2 .The building looked like demos/ There's no other explanation a rational, intelligent person can reach - NOT TRUE:

Actually, the collapses looked like demolitions, sounded like demolitions, and collapsed at a speed consistent with controlled demolitions.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
- No one saw or heard hundreds of timed explosions

FALSE. There are many first responders who testified to hearing timed explosions. You can read about them in the First Responder Oral Histories. There are also many survivors and by-standers that have publicly stated that they also heard the timed explosions as the towers were collapsing.

You can hear some of these many witnesses in my video here:

www.youtube.com...



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
- The French use a demo technique, that doesn't use explosives, but does use the weight of upper floors to crush the lower floors. And guess what, a building destroyed this way looks EXACTLY like the Twin Towers.

Ooohhh, guess what? That only works for concrete structures which is exactly what's in the videos. Yes, concrete structures will easily crumble and crush themselves. Steel structures do not. Therefore, your comparison is moot and not comparable at all in the least.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
3. Top down demolition with no visible or audible explosions

There were plenty of visible and audible explosions. First responders testified to the explosions as reported in the First Responder Oral Histories. They also testified to low-level flashes coming from the lower floors in both towers as the towers were collapsing above.

You can also hear the pre-collapse and during-collapse explosions going off in this video here:

Part 1: video.google.com...
Part 2: video.google.com...
Part 3: video.google.com...

The explosions heard in the above video are corroborated by first responders, so no need to try to explain them away.

That's the audio explosions aspect of your claim. Now off to the visible aspect of explosions:



That's the WTC on the right, some apartment towers on the left. You can see the explosive ejections coming out of all of the buildings. Those ejections are the result of high-powered explosives being detonated.


Continued in the next post...



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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...Continued from above.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
Top down demo has never been used for skyscrapers

FALSE. Let's look at some examples of top-down demolitions:







Looking at the ejections of the Implosion World image on the left, you can see those apartment towers were started at the top as well:




Then we have this from CDI:




Controlled demolition examples exist for every aspect of all three towers' collapses. Top-down demolitions are used and have been used.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
4. Building 7 only had a few fires - NOT TRUE

Mmmkay. Well, thanks for backing up your claim. I've never seen any image of WTC 7 engulfed in flames. The available images do only show a few fires burning on a few floors.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
5. No one saw a plane at the Pentagon - NOT TRUE

Agreed.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
So, 1 in 100,000 of all Architects and Engineers worldwide have signed this thing. Not so impressive. In fact, I'd rather trust the 99,999/1000,000 who haven't.

You're giving votes to people who haven't voted. There are over 1500 architects and engineers that have come out publicly against the official theory. You can't even come close to finding that many architects or engineers who have come out publicly to support the official theory.

You cannot count any architect or engineer who has not come out publicly to state their opinion one way or another. And you also cannot claim that anyone who has not come out publicly, automatically sides with the official theory. You have no idea what someone believes or doesn't believe just because they choose to be silent or are ill-informed of the facts, or don't even care one way or another.

The fact is: there are more architects and engineers that have come out publicly against the official theory, than have come out publicly for the official theory.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
7. A reputable journal of science tested something and found nano-thermite - NOT TRUE

You are either misstating the facts, or again twisting the facts to manufacture an argument. Reputable physicists (and independent researchers) have found what appears to be unignited thermitic material found in different samples of WTC dust.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
8. Richard Gage is an honest guy - NOT TRUE

Mmmkay. Well, thanks for backing up your claim.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
- Richard Gage has been busted falsifying evidence.

I'll ask you to provide proof that he has deliberately falsified evidence, or otherwise manufactured evidence.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
9. The Pentagon had a missile defense system - NOT TRUE

Never researched this, so don't know and don't care.



As you can see, almost all of your points have been found to be false themselves. So, before you go calling out others about their "false" statements, I'd ask that you do some real research, and get informed before you spread any more false statements of your own.

I will be waiting for you to provide proof that Richard Gage has deliberately falsified or manufactured evidence.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by karen61057
 


Excellent point, and on that note since when is it okay to kill the murderers family, or even take them to court for that matter. Unless, it can be proven with out reasonable doubt that the family in question some how took part or helped the defendant commit the murder. In that case, the family or associates could be put to trial as well, so how does this translate to mobilizing an army and slaughtering innocent civilians in the name of justice? Or for that matter killing those involved and in turn potentially destroying valuable evidence for a fair trial !!!! Absolutely ridiculous. Even if a terrorist group was involved in the tragedies that took place on 9/11 why is it okay for an army to go to a country that didn't do anything wrong and attack them. If you were going after the terrorist group, I can understand you may need some sort of military operation for the safety of that group. If this was the goal, to find those responsible and bring them to justice, a much smaller group could have gone to get them. Obviously, significant investigation would be required as well the country where the terrorist group resided would have to be informed and agree and the group sent to retrieve the terrorists would probably need to be sent by UN or another third party nation who is and was not affected by the events that took place.

All in all the events that took place were, and are not grounds to go to war with a country that had no involvement and or knowledge of the events that took place. Irregardless of the gross criminal acts that took place the collateral damage is unacceptable! I am disgusted with all involved in the mobilization of the united states army against a country who did nothing wrong, and obviously can't stand up to them for it. The world needs to wake up, and help them! Citizens of America bring your children, your husbands and brothers home. Bring home your daughters, wives and sisters. Irregardless of who brought down the towers they have been mislead into believing they have a war to fight in the middle east. It isn't right. Bring them home I beg you.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by _BoneZ_
 


... ok.. I can't really dispute that, but im still going to try and deny it



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by spw184
reply to post by primus2012
 


By saying "Deny ignorance!!" Or "Deny Ignorance!! Ever heard of it??" or other phrases turns on a red light in my book. To me it's like saying: "Haha, your stupid."

Mmk?
Mmk.


Just so I can save this before you edit it.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by primus2012

Originally posted by spw184
reply to post by primus2012
 


By saying "Deny ignorance!!" Or "Deny Ignorance!! Ever heard of it??" or other phrases turns on a red light in my book. To me it's like saying: "Haha, your stupid."

Mmk?
Mmk.


Just so I can save this before you edit it.


Im going to edit it? ok than.... o.o



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 07:13 PM
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This is a really great video I think everyone should watch, truther or not.....


I Made an epic boo boob.... removed for content reasons.

The OP of the videos said they were removed from youtube, and then posted them on this site.
edit on 9/13/2011 by Ilyich because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/13/2011 by Ilyich because: Videos posted contained anti semetic content



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by Ilyich
This is a really great video I think everyone should watch, truther or not.....

www.mypeepz.us...

www.mypeepz.us...


Pretty sick, but that guy has no life lol

I trusted him untill he started talking about jewish overlords lol
edit on 13-9-2011 by spw184 because: LOL



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by spw184

Originally posted by Ilyich
This is a really great video I think everyone should watch, truther or not.....

Removed for gross jewish slander


Pretty sick, but that guy has no life lol


oh man epic face palm on my behalf !! I should have finished the video before I posted it's still paused as I'm reading through another thread. I my apologies to any and all I have offended with these videos. I respectfully withdraw and apologize greatly !!!! I am not nor have I ever been against the jewish people or faith!
edit on 9/13/2011 by Ilyich because: removed the anti semetic content !



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