The Death Penalty: Hypocritical or justifiable?

reply to post by TDawgRex


Damn, I thought for sure I would trip you up with at least one of those questions. I am impressed.

I can't even try to counter your idea.

Originally posted by TDawgRex


By the way...I would include people like Bernie Madoff in the solitary scenario as he has screwed up many lives as well.

I doubt that many people would object to that.

Isn't he at that fed jail they call Camp Cupcake? or where did he go?I can't remember

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I like a good debate... and I do try to think things through from both perspectives before I formulate a reply. This topic though, I have thought long and hard about.

I'm not necessarily anti-death penalty either, but I think that are better methods. Cruel as they may be.

And then there are those who have been found innocent after they have been put to death, though few, it really doesn't help them, does it?

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I believe he's at Rikers...good place for him. I'll have to look into it.

Edit: The federal correctional complex in Butner, North Carolina. AKA Club Fed

Originally posted by Partisanity
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

I sincerely hope that you or your child become one of those 15, for "justice's" sake.

That way you don't have to go through the immense hardship of using that brain in your head to come up with some damned perspective.

You can't put a victory badge on a lost, innocent life and use the fact that you killed thousands upon thousands of others of criminals that could've been put in jail as an excuse.

Sociopathy at its bolstered finest.

Disgusting.

edit on 9-9-2011 by Partisanity because: (no reason given)

Wow? Really? Just for a belief? First off, I am only 22 so the likelihood that I have children that were innocent on death row is zero. I am not cheering yeah death penalty. I am just stating facts. The death penalty although while cruel, is a legitimate right that we as a species have had for centuries. If you were a victim of a mass murdering psychopath who killed your family you would want revenge as well. It's a basic human emotion that you cannot change. In all other cases lets say when science is concerned 72 out of 150000 trials is pretty darn good. We experiment on animals with a worse track record. We release drugs with worse track records.

You do realize you are defending murderers and overall bad people right?

And for the those who do support the death penalty. Wouldn't it be helping prisoners? Escape the suffering of life in prison? People should be able to choose what happens to a mass murderer if there is beyond a reasonable doubt with DNA evidence to back it up, that he did it!!! But I think that if a person wants to make someone suffer keeping them alive in a crappy prison is better more suffering than killing him on the spot.

I am for the right of having the death penalty, but if I were in that situation, I would choose life in prison for the prisoner so he can think long and hard about what he has done...But that's just me hate if you must.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

I like a good debate... and I do try to think things through from both perspectives before I formulate a reply. This topic though, I have thought long and hard about.

I'm not necessarily anti-death penalty either, but I think that are better methods. Cruel as they may be.

And then there are those who have been found innocent after they have been put to death, though few, it really doesn't help them, does it?

You ever thought about participating in the debate forum? Or have you already? I don't keep up with that forum at all. You would do well in there.

Guys, id love to see some one offer up something better than what TdawgRex has proposed. I really can't think of a better idea.

Yeah, that is true, the few who really are innocent, the death penalty kind of screws them over. Their only hope is that it usually takes 15-30 years before they are put to death..... And I think that stinks.

Originally posted by Partisanity
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

I sincerely hope that you or your child become one of those 15, for "justice's" sake.

That way you don't have to go through the immense hardship of using that brain in your head to come up with some damned perspective.

None of that in this thread. Thank you.

There is no need for such vulgarity or wishing ill will upon others. It is an unwanted distraction in this debate.Not to mention the fact that attacking some ones kids like that in a debate, is deplorable and uncalled for, to say the least.

Everyone. Be civil as I requested at the start of this thread.

I know there is a huge potential for this to become heated, but it does not have to be. We are all adults here. We can talk about these things with out attacking each other.

Please, be civil, be thoughtful and be considerate.

So everyone. If you feel yourself becoming angry or frustrated. Step out of the thread for a few minutes and cool down. This thread will be here when you get back.

In other words, please be nice and respectful. I expect this of everyone and I think that is more than fair.


( Just trying to stop it before it gets out of control... For the most part everyone has been awesome in this thread and I thank you all for that)

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Thank you!

I too respect debating intelligently instead of spreading hatred over someone's beliefs.

I think my response was humane, hope they cool down

reply to post by jjf3rd77


You are welcome. No problem with you( Or anyone else). Just what you found yourself having to respond to. You should not have had to even read that here on ATS.


Like I said, we are all adults here. No need to make it personal. We can continue having a great debate.

Keep it civil. That is my one rule. Really that is what the T&C boils down to on ATS. Just be civil. I am not foolish enough to think that everyone is going to agree.

But, everyone in here is more than capable of discussing disagreements in a civilized manner.

And really we all have been doing a great job. I just saw that comment and wanted to put an end to it before it gets started.

I do thank everyone for participating. Now, everyone play nice

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I've given some thought as to what a solitary prison would be. This is cruel mind you.

The military has Container housing units (CHU’s), they are small, stackable and contained.

Take it a step further. Make them ½ inch steel with sound barriers in between each stack of five. Armored windows so the guard scan see what’s going on, a thick slide out tray to feed the prisoners, (paper plates with no utensils, make all meals nutritious, but yet a sandwich and flushable). Enough space between walls for conduits, and plumbing.

Make the compound as you would a warehouse with no more than 1 foot between the CHU and the outer wall.

Make the outer perimeter no more than three feet between the outer wall and the perimeter.

That way, if there were a successful escape attempt, you would have bottlenecked all the prisoners.

The guards, if held hostage…well, they made their choice, just like the prisoners. Sorry to sound so cruel, but that is how it is and the nature of the beast.

But you're making me think even further...thanks for that.

Appaently I have been watching and reading waaaaay to much science fiction.


but it is feasible.

The problem with the death penalty is it's a bit, err, final. If you found you got the wrong person, it's a bit late to say 'oops, sorry'. Plus I was reading about new brain chemistry research on psychopaths. It seems that many convicted murderers have the cards stacked against them. Combine a certain gene with a certain environment and there for the grace of God go I. Not that I'm making excuses but life isn't so black and white as people like to make out.
But I'm also one of those who believes that if we accept it is wrong to kill, it is wrong to kill as retribution.

The death penalty is state sanctioned murder that leaves bloodstains on all of our hands. The reprehensible actions of murderers do not impel us to respond in kind. The death penalty casts us as de facto gods- presiding over life and death. Even in a perfect justice system, which we do not have, proving guilt absolutely does not mean we can then dispose of the guilty. If their sins are violations against the value of human life, how can we justify the taking of it, even as punishment? Executions appeal to the worst part of us- a bloodthirsty and primal need for the ultimate closure that satisfies on its surface and yet raises a new generation of the philosophically damaged.

If you've ever been the victim of violent crime, you know that nothing can erase that wound, only by continuing to embrace joy can healing occur and victimhood end. Even the offender has the capacity for healing and change- although they should forever be removed from society no matter how dramatic and lasting the change appears to be.

Complete justice may never be possible on this earth. Many people believe there is a form of cosmic justice that we experience in the next plane of existence where we will each be called to account for our actions and lack of them. It is not from a fear of this that I suggest we not murder, but this- whole, sane, well and peaceful people do not murder even the guilty. If we allow this taint on ourselves, it becomes a cancer eating away at the value of the human person.

I support the death penalty simply to rid society of the miscreants.
Most of them have long records of violence.

However, our legal system needs serious overhauling.
There is far too much zeal on the part of prosecutors to get their conviction.
They are not interested in the possibility that the accused may be innocent.
Too frequently good evidence in favor of the accused which is denied from being shown for one flimsy reason or another..
Circumstantial evidence should never be grounds for conviction.

Originally posted by OhZone
I support the death penalty simply to rid society of the miscreants.
Most of them have long records of violence.

However, our legal system needs serious overhauling.
There is far too much zeal on the part of prosecutors to get their conviction.
They are not interested in the possibility that the accused may be innocent.
Too frequently good evidence in favor of the accused which is denied from being shown for one flimsy reason or another..
Circumstantial evidence should never be grounds for conviction.

Most prosecutors are politicians in waiting as are many of the defense attorneys...they have forgotten their code.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Just look at the crap we have going on in Washington DC, but that is a continuing topic in other posts.

I dont see why people seek out the death punishment in the first place. It's better to let the murderer's rot in a hole for the rest of their life.

reply to post by TDawgRex


You know what you propose reminds me of the prison that Al Capone was jailed in. Alcatraz. At that time, there were no lights. No talking allowed. No.... lots of things( At least that is what I have read before) Though I think everyone was in cells like a regular jail.

I understand a lot of people ended up going a bit crazy, though they would take it to very extreme circumstances.

They had this device, if you got in trouble too much for talking. It would strap to your face and tongue if you talked it would cut your tongue up... That, is a bit much...

But...for what it is worth, the closest thing to ever exist that I am aware of, that is similar to your idea, would be Alcatraz.

Feel free to double check me though, It's been years since I heard anything about it.

capital punishment is ritual sacrifice no matter how you look at it and I believe as a species we should be beyond such rituals.

reply to post by Evanzsayz


No, it is better to rid society of their presence
Assuming that there is sufficient credible evidence of guilt..

It should be used more often. If you kill someone, you should pay with your life. Someone said it costs too much. This is ridiculous. A bullet is cheap. We need to absolutely be sure we have the right person, but these endless midnight death row appeals are nonsense. You shouldn't be on death row for years on end. You should be tried, get a chance at an appeal and then if you are guilty, you should be shot the next day.

We just had a piece of crap here in Vegas who stabbed a 15 year old girl 40 times and then set her body on fire. Don't you think he deserves the death penalty?

reply to post by DieBravely


Nope, your right, never been to prison.
But my real father on the other hand......
So yeah, I do know a bit about it.