Scientific Research on Solar System Brown Dwarf and Planet X.

reply to post by thyextendedself

Most stars in the galaxy are one of two in twin stars systems.

Incorrect. That was considered to be true 20 years ago. No longer.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Honestly, this is one of the most professional threads I've seen posted in a good while. I've been needing something like this to round out my day; thanks...

Would a brown or red dwarf have enough mass to screw with the puter planets? I mean, you would think we would have seen something about this by now what with all the NASA people that read Sitchin's works about reptilian like people that came from some planet out passed pluto. Assuming that his translations of the sumerian cuneiform was even correct.

Heh, 400 years after Galileo were still in the infant stages of understanding our own solar system.

Originally posted by libertytoall

I'm not sure you understand the singularity concept. The singularity is INFINITE according to both relativity and quantum mechanics. The reason is, it never actually stops tunneling down. The collapse never ends and gravity remains constant. The only thing that changes is everything within continues to quantize into smaller sizes in perfect propertions. Hence, why quantum mechanics works on a huge scale like the universe, and the smallest scales like atoms/subatomic particles.

This sort of nonsense, infuriates me. Any man, with even half a wit, should know by now. That anything with the word INFINITE in it, is nonsense. Anyone who even in the smallest portions, tries to argue the word INFINITE, or a perpetual machine ... is not worth the energy of reading it.

Good stuff. TNO's have always interested me.

@Phage - I thought the new theory regarding "single" and "binary" stars was the "Stellar System"? You know multiple stars (up to 7 i.e. Nu Scorpi,) sometimes even light-years apart, but still in an "orbit" around one another. I could totally be wrong on this.

www.ctio.noao.edu...

reply to post by thesungod

I'm not sure of your point.

The discussion about binary systems here has been about two star systems and their prevalence. It was previously thought that binary systems were dominant in the Galaxy. More recent surveys and analysis show that this may not be the case. It is also shown to be unlikely for a sun-like star to have a brown dwarf companion.

If you are suggesting that the Sun may be part of a multiple system, that is even less likely. Multiples are less common than binary systems. Within 25 parsecs of the Sun 11% of sun-like stars are part of multiple systems.
arxiv.org...

Originally posted by Phage
The discussion about binary systems here has been about two star systems and their prevalence. It was previously thought that binary systems were dominant in the Galaxy. More recent surveys and analysis show that this may not be the case. It is also shown to be unlikely for a sun-like star to have a brown dwarf companion.
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Are you sure about that Phage?

By University Communications July 28, 2010

The discovery is expected to shed light on the early stages of solar system formation.


[size=]Astronomers have imaged a very young brown dwarf, or failed star, in a tight orbit around a young nearby sun-like star.

An international team led by University of Hawaii astronomers Beth Biller and Michael Liu with help from University of Arizona astronomer Laird Close and UA graduate students Eric Nielsen, Jared Males and Andy Skemer made the rare find using the Near-Infrared Coronagraphic Imager, or NICI, on the international 8-meter Gemini-South Telescope in Chile.
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uanews.org...

Closest Brown Dwarf Companion Ever Spotted Around a Star Provokes New Perspective
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Astronomers using adaptive optics technology on the Gemini North Telescope have observed a brown dwarf orbiting a low-mass star at a distance comparable to just three times the distance between the Earth and Sun. This is the closest separation distance ever found for this type of binary system using direct imaging.
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www.gemini.edu...

It is not unlikely. It is possible.

Pictured: First glimpse of an alien planet in orbit around a sun just like ours
By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 11:46 AM on 16th September 2008

Scientists have snapped the first picture of a planet outside our solar system orbiting a star similar to the sun.
The distant world is giant and has about eight times the mass of Jupiter. It lies far out from its star about 330 times the distance of the Earth from the Sun.
Images of the young star and what seems to be its companion planet were taken by astronomers from the University
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www.dailymail.co.uk...

Brown Dwarf Found around Nearby, Sun-Like Star

by Michael Liu

Stars derive their energy from nuclear fusion in their cores, stably burning lighter elements into heavier ones. In the process, energy is released and emitted as radiation, that is, light. However, below a minimum mass, about 8% of the Sun's mass, the center of an object does not become hot enough to ignite this process. Such very low-mass objects are known as brown dwarfs. Without a stable internal energy source, brown dwarfs contain only the energy stored from their formation, presumably as collapsing masses of interstellar gas. This energy supply is steadily released as heat, and in the process these "failed stars" grow ever cooler and fainter. With masses from 15 to 80 times that of the planet Jupiter, brown dwarfs are objects intermediate between stars and planets.

Brown dwarfs were confined to the realm of theoretical speculation until their discovery in 1995. Now, many have been found as isolated objects, free-floating in interstellar space. But very few are found orbiting other stars. While many planets have been found around other stars by radial velocity studies (which search for the very weak wobbling of stars due to an unseen planet), the same studies find almost no brown dwarf companions. However, such studies probe only the inner regions around other stars, inside of 4 AU (1 AU = astronomical unit = distance from the Earth to the Sun = 93 million miles). Little is known about the region outside of 4 AU, the domain of giant planets in our own solar system.
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www2.ifa.hawaii.edu...

Thats just four different systems which a quick search allowed me to find of a sun-like star and a companion brown dwarf.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

It is not unlikely. It is possible.

edit on 11-9-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

I did not say it was impossible. I said it was unlikely that the Sun has a brown dwarf companion. The words don't mean the same thing.

As the articles states, PZ Tel A has a mass similar to that of the Sun but it is a very young star. The system is still in the process of development. It is not a system which is comparable to the solar system.

With an estimated mass of 36 times that of Jupiter, PZ Tel B's orbital motion has significant implications for what type of planets can form (and whether planets can form at all) in the PZ Tel system.

uanews.org...
It is questionable whether planet formation can occur in such a system.

Originally posted by Phage

As the articles states, PZ Tel A has a mass similar to that of the Sun but it is a very young star. The system is still in the process of development. It is not a system which is comparable to the solar system.
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The star is similar to our sun, and I found others as well and one more.

First Directly Imaged Brown Dwarf Companion To An Exoplanet Host Star


ScienceDaily (Oct. 21, 2006) — Astronomers have detected a new faint companion to the star HD 3651, already known to host a planet. This companion, a brown dwarf, is the faintest known companion of an exoplanet host star imaged directly and one of the faintest T dwarfs detected in the Solar neighbourhood so far. The detection yields important information on the conditions under which planets form.
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www.sciencedaily.com...

It is possible that our Sun does have a brown dwarf companion, and maybe even at least one more large planet.

I could keep on going, found several more.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Thats just four different systems which a quick search allowed me to find of a sun-like star and a companion brown dwarf.

Four (and a few more). Out of how many systems?
You'll note that paper I cited (Raghaven 2010) was written after the discoveries you bring up. Those discoveries are included in the analysis.
The study shows that;
a) Sun-like binary systems are not prevalent.
b) Sun-like binary systems with brown dwarf companions are rare.

Could these conclusions change with further observations? Yes.
Could the Sun have brown dwarf companion? Yes, but current observations indicate that it is unlikely. This is what I said in my first post in this thread. Please do not imply that I said it was not possible. Unlikely does not mean impossible.

reply to post by Phage


So that paper is only about Solar-type stars or Class G. It doesn't include say a red dwarf, red dwarf binary system, or a binary system with say a Giant of any type with anything other than a Class G main sequence star.

The sample of stars studied in this work is comprised of 454 solar-type primary stars in the solar neighborhood (see Table 1), selected from the Hipparcos catalog. The distance limit for our sample is 25 pc from the Sun, corresponding to a Hipparcos parallax of π  40 mas. Stars with parallax errors larger than 5% of the corresponding value are excluded from the sample (see § 2.1).

That being said the MSC (The link I provided before) has a catalog of over 1500 multi-star systems "in the solar neighborhood."

Now one could argue that we're a Class G star so why not compare us only to the other Class G stars. Well the problem with that is in our Sun's lifetime it will be also be a red-giant and a white dwarf. So our Sun would be excluded from that study in a few billion years time. This particular paper is highly flawed or extremely biased.

As for Brown Dwarfs....

news.discovery.com...

reply to post by thesungod

The MSC catalog is not concerned with binary systems.

Yes, the study I linked is concerned with sun-like stars while the MSC catalog includes all star types, including stars very different from ours. I'm not sure why you say the study is flawed or biased when it specifically states the critera used and why.

Sun-like stars do evolve into red giants. But I guess I'm missing your point. I don't see why there would be reason to think that old stars would be more likely to have a companion or how that would affect the results of the study. If the Sun has a companion now it probably still will when it becomes a red giant. If it doesn't, it won't. The same applies to other stars. But we are talking about the Sun...now...and similar stars of its "generation" in its neighborhood where the conditions under which they formed are similar. Perhaps a study of binary systems and old stars would be interesting but I'm not sure how the results would apply to the Sun.

I'm not sure what UGPSJ0722-05 has to do with this discussion.

Okay so I'll make it an analogy. That paper is like surveying the human Caucasian males of Hartford, CT about their political views (454 stars of a single type in less than 1% of the known universe) and then applying that to all of the males of all of the countries of the known world (Some sextillion stars and I'm low balling there.)

That being said I get what your saying. Sol is class G, it's X years old and in this section of space; therefore we'll compare it to all the locals of a similar age. However, what if all the stars around us were formed in a separate section of space? I.E. A separate nebulae, a galaxy gobbling event, migrating stars, etc.

Going with that same string of thought, of the known class G stars within 25–35 pc (80–115 light-years) of us few have extrasolar planets, most have none. As a matter of fact...
en.wikipedia.org...
Few stars have known extrasolar planets within 25 pc or even to the edge of our vision. So what makes us so unique then, to have so many? Is it maybe that we are Binary or even multiple?

Since 1995, when the first brown dwarf was confirmed by Chilean astronomer María Teresa Ruiz, hundreds have been identified. Brown dwarfs close to Earth include Epsilon Indi Ba and Bb, a pair of dwarfs gravitationally bound to a sunlike star, around 12 light-years from the Sun.

As for UGPSJ0722-05, it's a rogue or at least a singular star and it's close, 10 light years, not mention the fact that we just confirmed it.

Oddly, when looking at the spectrum from UGPSJ0722-05, there is an anomalous absorption line (i.e. a particular wavelength in the electromagnetic spectrum that is missing) that cannot be explained by our current understanding of brown dwarfs. Perhaps the UKIRT has discovered a new breed of brown dwarf; a very cool object with some chemical in its atmosphere that absorbs infrared radiation at a wavelength of 1.25 micrometers.

Stack that with Sedna and the potentials of "black body radiation" being emitted from UGPSJ0722-05...

reply to post by thesungod

Okay so I'll make it an analogy. That paper is like surveying the human Caucasian males of Hartford, CT about their political views (454 stars of a single type in less than 1% of the known universe) and then applying that to all of the males of all of the countries of the known world (Some sextillion stars and I'm low balling there.)

No. The paper makes no conclusions about all of the stars in the Universe. It is only concerned with a class of stars in our neighborhood of our galaxy.

However, what if all the stars around us were formed in a separate section of space? I.E. A separate nebulae, a galaxy gobbling event, migrating stars, etc.

Please provide evidence for this speculation.

Few stars have known extrasolar planets within 25 pc or even to the edge of our vision. So what makes us so unique then, to have so many? Is it maybe that we are Binary or even multiple?

Can you provide a specific reference for that statement. The wiki article seems to contradict it.

Planet-search programs have discovered planets orbiting a substantial fraction of the stars they have looked at.

en.wikipedia.org...


Yes, I know UGPSJ0722-05 is a rogue. It is not part of a binary system. That's why I asked about its relevance. Can you explain what blackbody radiation has to do with the topic?

reply to post by Phage


As for the paper yes. I was assuming you were making that leap, obviously not. That's what I get for assuming. I'll have to remember from now on your the literal sort.

As for my speculations...
www.npr.org... - In regards to gobbling
www.redorbit.com... - migrating stars

As for the nebula case, did all the class G stars in the corner of our galaxy come from the same nebula or different nebulae. Any given nebula produces certain bodies according to the elements that make it up. Now the chances of every star within 25 pc being formed by the same nebula is slim. M42 for example is made up of 30 individual nebulae each producing different stars and stellar systems. AE Aurigae, 53 Arietis, and Mu Columbae are purposed to have been ejected from the Orion nebula and now all sit in different constellations.

www.atlasoftheuniverse.com...

As for WIKI lists

There are 34 stars with two planets, 10 with three, 5 with four, 1 with five, 2 with six, and 1 with eight. The star with the most confirmed planets is Sol, which contains 8 confirmed planets. The star with most confirmed exoplanets are HD 10180 and Kepler-11, both containing 6 confirmed planets.

en.wikipedia.org... - These are all but certain stars with planetary systems.

There are 385 stars with one confirmed planet, and only 53 stars with two or more confirmed planets; that is, only 12% of all exoplanetary host stars have two or more confirmed planets. There are 35 stars with two confirmed planets, 10 with three, 5 with four, 1 with five, and 2 with six. The stars with the most confirmed planets are HD 10180 and Kepler-11, each containing 6 confirmed planets.

en.wikipedia.org... - These are host stars meaning they probably have more. Also on this link if you read the intro you'll notice most of the stars on the list are Solar-type star, however pay attention to the distances. Most are beyond 25 pc or 85 light years, putting them out of the neighborhood. Of the known planets around known class G stars we have quiet a few in comparison.
Also...

Of the 605 extrasolar planets discovered by September 9, 2011,[4] most have masses which are comparable to or larger than Jupiter's, though masses ranging from just below that of Mercury to many times Jupiter's mass have been observed.

Meaning more than likely Gas Giants, not terrestrial planets. These things make our solar system "unique", at least for the moment.

Now back to UGPSJ0722-05. We didn't see it due to the fact of how cold it is and because it "eats" a particular wavelength of infrared radiation to be specific 1.25 micrometers. This phenomena is very similar to black body radiation, but just a part of the infrared spectrum.

en.wikipedia.org...

So with the crazy orbit of Sedna, the potential for a brown dwarf being hard to see, due to temp and black body radiation. We -could- be a binary system.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

OH MY.... yes this is weird...

translate.google.com...://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/&ei=nWdtTuOvManw0gGe8L3rBA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQ 7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmax%2Bplanck%2Binstitute%2Bheidelberg%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D2SH%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USffic ial%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D977%26prmd%3Divnscm

translation of the page of the Max Planck Institute of Heidelberg Germany...

They don't do space stuff...

I may be wrong just saying, odd.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Thats just four different systems which a quick search allowed me to find of a sun-like star and a companion brown dwarf.

Four (and a few more). Out of how many systems?
You'll note that paper I cited (Raghaven 2010) was written after the discoveries you bring up. Those discoveries are included in the analysis.
The study shows that;
a) Sun-like binary systems are not prevalent.
b) Sun-like binary systems with brown dwarf companions are rare.

Could these conclusions change with further observations? Yes.
Could the Sun have brown dwarf companion? Yes, but current observations indicate that it is unlikely. This is what I said in my first post in this thread. Please do not imply that I said it was not possible. Unlikely does not mean impossible.

edit on 9/11/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Actually, you are very incorrect.

Stars in binary star systems are more prevalent than single-star sytems.


Careful spectroscopic studies of nearby solar-type stars show that about two thirds of them have stellar companions. We estimate that roughly half of all stars in the sky are indeed members of binaries.

www.astro.cornell.edu...

Originally posted by Phage
...
Could the Sun have brown dwarf companion? Yes, but current observations indicate that it is unlikely. This is what I said in my first post in this thread. Please do not imply that I said it was not possible. Unlikely does not mean impossible.

There is an old saying that maybe you heard about: "if it quacks like a duck, it walks like a duck and looks like a duck.....it must be a duck."

Some large gravitational field exists in our Solar System and is causing noticeable and strong changes. Yes, even the secular increase in the distance between theSun and the planets, the Moon anomalie, and several others are strong changes because whatever this gravitational field is, is strong enough to cause these anomalies despite the Sun counteracting them.

We know that it is not a singularity, it can't be an interstellar cloud, unless it has the brown dwarf, and or planet within it, simply because an interstellar cloud does not have the mass to cause these anomalies. Interstellar clouds cause other anomalies, such as dramatic Climate Changes.

So far whatever this large gravitational field is it has eluded our search, but just because we can't see what is causing this large gravitational field doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Whatever it is it must have mass, and by the looks at the anomalies it must be at least as dense as another Neptune or Jupiter, if not bigger.

What has this sort of mass but is still able to elude us with our present technology? Brown dwarves come to mind, and more so "Y" type brown dwarves.

Do 'Ultracool' Brown Dwarfs Surround Us?

Analysis by Ian O'Neill
Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:49 PM ET

Two new brown dwarfs have been discovered relatively close to to our solar system. Spotted by astronomers from the Leibniz Institute for Astrophysics Potsdam (AIP), the "failed stars"* are only 15 and 18 light-years from the sun.

15 and 18 light-years may not seem that close -- after all, the nearest bona fide star to the sun, red dwarf Proxima Centauri, is a mere four light-years away. But if these discoveries continue it may not be long until a brown dwarf, and not Proxima, is found to be our nearest stellar neighbor.

ANALYSIS: Record Breaker: 'Very Cold' Brown Dwarf Discovered

These two brown dwarfs, called WISE J0254+0223 and WISE J1741+2553, are in addition to the AIP teams 2003 discovery of another two brown dwarfs orbiting the star Epsilon Indi, 12 light-years from Earth. This new double discovery was made during analysis of recently published data from NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE).
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The AIP press release ponders an interesting scenario: "It cannot be excluded that ultracool brown dwarfs surround us in similar high numbers as stars and that our nearest known neighbor will soon be a brown dwarf rather than Proxima Centauri."

If this did happen, as pointed out by Paul Gilster, Project Icarus consultant [see: "Tau Zero Takes Aim at Interstellar Propulsion"], an interesting possibility would present itself:

Do brown dwarfs, hitherto undetected, surround us in large numbers? We certainly cant rule out the possibility, and we can expect much more data mining from the riches WISE has accumulated. And yes, the case for a brown dwarf closer than the Alpha Centauri stars is still open, making the brown dwarf hunt of unusual interest for identifying potential targets for future probes.
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news.discovery.com...


So it is even possible for two brown dwarves to orbit one star.