Scientific Research on Solar System Brown Dwarf and Planet X.

reply to post by Mogget


Well, Neovein already responded in part to you, so I don't need to go over the fact that WISE cannot capture the heat signature from Kuiper belt objects. Not to mention that you are confusing the Kuiper belt with the Oort cloud, which are not the same thing. The Oort cloud is much farther away from the Sun, and us than the Kuiper belt.

Originally posted by Mogget
Thanks for the clarification, NeoVain. However, if a "Y" type brown dwarf can be detected at tens of light years, then it can be detected at the distance of the Oort Cloud.

Again, not necessarily.

Astronomers study brown dwarfs to better understand how stars form, and to understand the atmospheres of planets beyond our solar system. The atmospheres of brown dwarfs are similar to those of gas-giant planets like Jupiter, but they are easier to observe because they are alone in space, away from the blinding light of a parent star.

www.nasa.gov...

I also showed with a link to a photo from WISE of one brown dwarf that shows at least some of them can be nearly invisible because they barely have any heat, and that was a "T" type brown dwarf, meanwhile there are colder ones known as "Y" type brown dwarfs which are even harder to detect.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Astronomers study brown dwarfs to better understand how stars form, and to understand the atmospheres of planets beyond our solar system. The atmospheres of brown dwarfs are similar to those of gas-giant planets like Jupiter, but they are easier to observe because they are alone in space, away from the blinding light of a parent star.

Except that for most of the year, a hypothetical brown dwarf planet would not be anywhere near the Sun in the sky and would stick out like a sore thumb. I'm not saying that this purely hypothetical companion definitely does not exist; I am simply pointing out that after presenting your case you are not defending it, you're just making excuses.

Originally posted by DJW001

Except that for most of the year, a hypothetical brown dwarf planet would not be anywhere near the Sun in the sky and would stick out like a sore thumb. I'm not saying that this purely hypothetical companion definitely does not exist; I am simply pointing out that after presenting your case you are not defending it, you're just making excuses.

Except that it would continue to be close to the Sun. I wasn't talking about it being in the same field of vision as the Sun...but in the vecinity of the Sun... And btw, before you star claiming that I think it is hiding behind the Sun and you start your happy dance, that's not what I am saying either...

BTW, i have never made any excuses, I left that to you, and a few others... If you would have noticed I back what I say with research, all you have done so far is just make comments from your own conclusions without any data to corroborate your claims. In other words, you have done much trolling, and nothing more...

Here is another interesting research about this very topic.

General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology

The perihelion precession of Saturn, planet X/Nemesis and MOND

Lorenzo Iorio

(Submitted on 27 Jul 2009 (v1), last revised 12 Jan 2011 (this version, v6))

We show that the retrograde perihelion precession of Saturn Deltadotvarpi, recently estimated by different teams of astronomers by processing ranging data from the Cassini spacecraft and amounting to some milliarcseconds per century, can be explained in terms of a localized, distant body X, not yet directly discovered. From the determination of its tidal parameter K = GM_X/r_X^3 as a function of its ecliptic longitude lambda_X and latitude beta_X, we calculate the distance at which X may exist for different values of its mass, ranging from the size of Mars to that of the Sun. The minimum distance would occur for X located perpendicularly to the ecliptic, while the maximum distance is for X lying in the ecliptic. We find for rock-ice planets of the size of Mars and the Earth that they would be at about 80-150 au, respectively, while a Jupiter-sized gaseous giant would be at approximately 1 kau. A typical brown dwarf would be located at about 4 kau, while an object with the mass of the Sun would be at approximately 10 kau, so that it could not be Nemesis for which a solar mass and a heliocentric distance of about 88 kau are predicted. If X was directed towards a specific direction, i.e. that of the Galactic Center, it would mimick the action of a recently proposed form of the External Field Effect (EFE) in the framework of the MOdified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND).
...

arxiv.org...

Another possibility I wanted to mention, we have seen different distances being attributed as possible for the Brown Dwarf, and or planet, yet what if at least two more massive objects exist? A brown dwarf, and at least one large planet orbiting the Brown Dwarf? It could account for the discrepancies in the distances associated with such objects.

Here is another link to the above research which includes the entire research paper and shows some of the many anomalies that could be explained by such a companion dead star and/or a large planet. Such anomalies include the flyby anomaly, the pioneer anomaly, the secular change of the Astronomical Unit, and the increase of the eccentricity of the Moon's orbit.

miur.academia.edu...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Except that it would continue to be close to the Sun.

Please go back and re-read what you posted. It is difficult to detect a brown dwarf star that is orbiting near a star because the light from the star drowns it out. That simple. The light from the Sun would not drown out the hypothetical companion body when they are in opposition. What's more, it would reflect sunlight, so it would be visible in the "normal" range as well as IR.

Another interesting research which puts the brown dwarf as close as 8380 AU is.

Giant Nemesis candidate HD 107914 / HIP 60503 for the perforation of Oort cloud

Igor Yu. Potemine

(Submitted on 27 Mar 2010)

So far, GJ 710 is the only known star supposed to pass through outskirts of the solar system within 1 ly. We have reexamined the SIMBAD database for additional stellar candidates (from highest ratios of squared parallax to total proper motion) and compared them with new HIP2 parallaxes and known radial velocities. At the moment, the best nominee is double star HD 107914 in the constellation Centaurus at $\approx$ 78.3 pc from the Sun whose principal component is a white (A-type) giant. It does not seem to appear neither in general catalogues of radial velocities available at SIMBAD nor in authoritative Garcia-Sanchez et al. papers on stellar encounters with the solar system. Awaiting for the value $v_r$ of its radial velocity, uknown to the author, we have calculated limits of $|v_r|$ necessary to this star to pass within 1 ly and 1 pc from the Sun in linear approximation. A very accurate value of its total proper motion is also extremely important. In the case of $v_r=-100$ km/s and most "advantageous" HIP2 data, HD 107914 could pass as near as 8380 AU from the Sun in an almost direct collision course with the inner part of the solar system! Inversely, if $v_r$ had a great positive value, then HIP 60503 could be the creator of peculiar trajectories of detached trans-Neptunian objects like Sedna.


Top matches in this document to your query 'nemesis'
arXiv:1003.5308v1 [astro-ph.SR] 27 Mar 2010 Giant Nemesis candidate HD 107914 / HIP 60503 for the perforation of Oort cloud Igor Yu. ... X = 12.77 0.46 and proper motions ? cos() = 0.55 0.4, 2 ? = 0.02 0.3 to our Nemesis candidate. [Hipparcos and SIMBAD give the following values : X = 12.89 0.80, ? cos() = ... are indispensable for such stars. Then one can easily create a more or less full list of Nemesis candidates ...

search.arxiv.org:8081...

Originally posted by DJW001

Please go back and re-read what you posted.
...

Sigh... We would not get into these argumnents if you actually read the excerpts and research provided.

You made a similar mistake in another thread where you decided not to look at the evidence provided and instead you just decided to make very similar strawman arguments which would have been avoided if you actually read the evidence presented.

Astronomers study brown dwarfs to better understand how stars form, and to understand the atmospheres of planets beyond our solar system. The atmospheres of brown dwarfs are similar to those of gas-giant planets like Jupiter, but they are easier to observe because they are alone in space, away from the blinding light of a parent star.

www.nasa.gov...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


This actually sounds like what I've been talking about the entire time. That these anomalies are not caused by a companion star, but by a rogue star that passed by the solar system.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254

This actually sounds like what I've been talking about the entire time. That these anomalies are not caused by a companion star, but by a rogue star that passed by the solar system.

edit on 17-9-2011 by Xcalibur254 because: (no reason given)

IMO it could be true if objects like Sedna didn't continue to have such an elongated elliptical orbit. After several million years of not having the influence of the companion rogue star, as you suggest, Sedna would have closed the gap in it's elongated elliptical orbit and would have a more circular orbit closer to our Sun. The same could be said of comets, more so when they are returning faster into the inner Solar System than they are supposed to inferring that at a certain distance there is an additional pull/push caused by what could very well be a dark cold companion to our Sun.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


what excapes me is that i read or heard of a dark companion star... or brown dwarf companion way back when i was a young kid & avid reader of such exotic stuff back in the late 1950's early 1960's...


i've been searching to find out when a dwarf star was first hypothesized but keep coming up empty---except the 'Dark Star theory, &^ Nemesis Star hypothesis ~ around 1985 ~
is history being rewritten even as we speak.?

i know for sure i was reading materials like the astroid belt, the binary star dark-companion, even Malenkinovich models...the book 'The next 5 billion years' (about the aging of our Sun).... waaaay before these items became popular in the '80-90s and ubiquitious on the internet conspiracy sites.


none of your links are vintage or historical... They are just contemporary rewrites from some original ideas...
thanks....

some of those 1940'-1950s Sci Fi magazines had this stuff as monthly fodder for the fringe thinkers back then

I know the difference between the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud. I have been studying the orbits of Solar System objects for two decades.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

The atmospheres of brown dwarfs are similar to those of gas-giant planets like Jupiter, but they are easier to observe because they are alone in space, away from the blinding light of a parent star.

"The atmosphere of brown dwarfs are similar to those of gas-giant planets like Jupiter." That means that, like Jupiter, they reflect sunlight in the visible spectrum. Granted, a companion brown dwarf is much more distant than Jupiter, but it would form a faint image on any photograph with a long enough exposure. There have been many complete sky surveys over the past few decades. If you compare them all, you would be able to discover such a planet by its conspicuous secular parallax. When you do this, you will have actual evidence and I will personally petition NASA to task Hubble to confirm the discovery. Until you do that, all you are doing is making excuses for why you have no actual proof of your hypothesis. I am perfectly open to the possibility that such a body exists, it is you who have closed your mind to the possibility that it doesn't.

"... but they are easier to observe because they are alone in space, away from the blinding light of a parent star." How exactly are you interpreting this statement, and how does it support your assertions?

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

"The atmosphere of brown dwarfs are similar to those of gas-giant planets like Jupiter." That means that, like Jupiter, they reflect sunlight in the visible spectrum.

Being similar does not mean identical. Brown dwarfs commonly have sufficient amounts of methane in their atmosphere to absorb most visible light rather than reflect it. (see source below)

Also, the coldest brown dwarfs found are about 300 degrees celsius, what is to say nothing colder than that exists? As stated earlier, WISE is unable to find objects colder than the Earth, even if they are as close as the kuiper belt.

The brown dwarf in question is somewhere between 18 and 30 light years away in the constellation Camelopardalis (the giraffe), and is one of the coolest such objects known, with a temperature of roughly 600 Kelvin (326 degrees Celsius).

www.centauri-dreams.org...

reply to post by NeoVain


Except we know that brown dwarfs not only have a similar composition to Jupiter we also know that their albedos are nearly identical. This means that they reflect the same amount of light. Also, your argument from ignorance does not help your point in any way. Sure, a brown dwarf cooler than Earth could exist, but it could just as likely not exist. You have to rely on what has been observed in order to have an effective logical argument. I'm not specifically picking on you, it's just starting to bother me how many people use arguments from ignorance and assume that it proves their point.

reply to post by NeoVain

Methane is transparent to visible light.
Your source says this:

This is one of those brown dwarfs that burn at temperatures close to a hot oven here on Earth, cool enough that it takes WISE’s infrared view from space to pick it up. In the image, we’re looking at three of the four WISE infrared channels, color-coded so that blue shows the shortest infrared wavelengths and red the longest. The methane in the brown dwarf atmosphere absorbs the blue-coded light and the faint object gives off little of the red, leaving green as the dominant color.

www.centauri-dreams.org...
The shortest wavelength which WISE images is 3.3 microns. That is in the medium infrared range, far from visible light.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

A Mars-sized body can be found at not less than 70-85 au: such bounds are 147-175 au, 1006-1200 au, 4334-5170 au, 8113-9524 au and 10 222-12 000 au for a body with a mass equal to that of the Earth, Jupiter, a brown dwarf, red dwarf and the Sun, respectively.

To summarize according to Iorio, and this older research paper he made.

A Mars-sized body can be found at not less than 70-85au
An Earth-sized body at 147-175au
A Jupiter-sized body at 1006-1200au
A brown dwarf at 4334-5170au
A Red Dwarf at 8113-9524au
A Sun-sized stellar object at 10222-12000au

I just want to clarify this here...Iorio is saying that calculations of orbital mechanics in the Sol System show a deviation from recorded data, and further calculations show that the deviation can be explained by the presence of one of the objects listed. He is not saying that all of those objects in the list are out there.

Right?

reply to post by chr0naut

In your rough diagram of the orbit of binary stars, if you were to assume the Oort cloud is at approximately 2,000 AU (the traditionally accepted and maximum distance) and the binary star is at 50,000 AU (the minimum bound for this figure) you will see that the boundary of the Oort cloud is only 1/25th of the distance between the stars at closest pass. This would be entirely within one of the dots on the diagram and would explain how the gravitational effect on the solar system may be very small.

You could also hardly describe such a gravitationally bound binary star as being within our solar system.

I see what you're saying here, but if Sol turns out to be one of a Binary pair, that would change what is defined as "our solar system"....wouldn't it?

The "edge" of the heliosphere (the heliopause) is probably the most definite "boundary" described for the Sol system, and it's a fuzzy one. The Voyagers are past the termination shock, and at the heliosheath, an area 4 billion miles in thickness and shrinking or expanding depending on strength of solar wind and density of interstellar particles, and generally being unpredictable. They are relaying a lot of interesting info about it.

“In many ways, the heliosheath is not like our models predicted,” [Ed] Stone explains. However, there is plenty of time for the Voyager probes to come up with the answer. They will remain operational until at least 2020, thanks to their nuclear-powered engines.
“The heliosheath is 3 to 4 billion miles in thickness. That means we'll be out within five years or so,” the Caltech expert adds. At this point, Voyager 1 can no longer detect solar winds at its location, but astronomers believe that this is because the radiation simply changed direction.

Source

V1 is 118.30947478 AU from Sol at the time I'm typing this, according to the live tracking from JPL -- "Where are the Voyagers?"....and isn't expected to reach the heliopause until 2015 or later.
The termination shock as recorded by V2 a few years ago didn't completely fit current models either. Source
Then there's the possibility of a "bow shock" after the heliopause. I have a beautiful image of a bow shock from another star taken by Hubble; worth looking at even if you hate everything I'm saying, hehe. Still can't upload images to ATS tho.

My point here(I have one, I swear) is that the "boundary" of our solar system is not exactly defined. I've read that the actual boundary may be where Sol's emissions bump against those from the Alpha Centauri system, and that would be two lightyears out. And if it turns out that Sol is part of a binary, then the other binary object is part of our system, and our definition of the "system" would expand to include all objects and phenomena related to the companion object, whatever it may be. That's why they are called "binary systems".


By the way....the article I linked to about the Voyager 2 crossing the termination shock has an intriguing sentence near the very end of the article:

On the way, the Voyagers could help determine the source of mysterious radio emissions from the edge of the solar system, which may be the result of CMEs from the Sun crashing into the interstellar medium.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Now, the influx of galactic cosmic rays into our solar system has reached a record high. Measurements by NASA's Advanced Composition Explorer (ACE) spacecraft indicate that cosmic rays are 19 per cent more abundant than any previous level seen since space flight began a half century ago.

Does this mean I need to add some layers to my tinfoil hat?

I just want to clarify this here...Iorio is saying that calculations of orbital mechanics in the Sol System show a deviation from recorded data, and further calculations show that the deviation can be explained by the presence of one of the objects listed. He is not saying that all of those objects in the list are out there.

Right?

That is correct, although we can safely discount the possibility of a red dwarf or Sun like star. They would be visible to the naked eye at the distances quoted.

In your rough diagram of the orbit of binary stars, if you were to assume the Oort cloud is at approximately 2,000 AU (the traditionally accepted and maximum distance)

The Oort Cloud is more like 50000AUs from the Sun. A distance of 2000AUs would roughly correspond to the location of the Inner Oort Cloud.