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You are changing the argument again.
But also, I don't judge someone's salvation because they may be a babe in Christ.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
You are changing the argument again.
But also, I don't judge someone's salvation because they may be a babe in Christ.
I did not say anything about judging people.
I was talking about judging philosophies and what happens according to the NT to the teachers of the philosophy of the false prophet.
My main point has to do with teachings that are a help to those seeking salvation compared to teachings that are a hindrance to those seeking salvation
The emphases in the verses dealing with false prophets have to do with whether or not the converts are persuaded to go ahead and sin, or not.
It does not deal in matters such as how they think about the role of repentance in the Christian's daily experience.
I never used the word, prerequisite, or use any other words that would imply that. I was talking about people who have accepted Jesus, and years later, are behaving exactly the same way as they did before they accepted Jesus.
You have some difficulty comprehending what I say because you have a different way of defining salvation.
You think of it as something that happens when they accept Jesus.
I think of it as being something that happens when someone finds themselves in heaven.
So instead of thinking about a future salvation in the end for those who endure, you are wondering how or if someone can be un-saved.
Now you are saying that repentance is not necessary for salvation, disregarding the places in the NT where the Apostles, John the baptist, and Jesus called people to repentance so they can be saved.
Since you say salvation is free, how can you imagine anyone not being saved. Maybe that would be the question.
Anyway, my problem with your preaching on this forum is that you present yourself as a Christian and claim to be a Christian but you exhibit no Christian characteristics personally
and you teach people not to care about sin and now, apparently, about anything.
This is why I believe your philosophy is satanic, because it is designed to make sure none of its adherents could possibly be saved, since, for example, they are guilty of the crime of hate, greed, theft, and murder, by supporting the actions of Israel, unconditionally and then never repent of those sins because they are taught to believe that all those things are good.
The word, justified, is not in there, so it is not saying, 'Do these things and then you will be justified'. That would be salvation by works, as in, 'Say these particular words, and then you are good to go'.
The simple gospel is spelled out in Romans 10:9. That verse tells you what a person must believe and profess to be justified by God.
Justification is a legal term and it is a positive outcome of judgement.
That's "justification". That's what simply declares us righteous.
I thought you said that on the creation thread but maybe I have you confused with what XPlaneX said, so I may have made a mistake, or I assumed that since you did not object to what he posted, that you agreed with him.
Well, actually this post is the first time you mentioned "years later", so with that qualifier I'd assume that person was never converted to begin with. I don't see how someone can have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and their life not change as a result. I'd assume that person's conversion never took place.
"First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also,
Can you show where a person must repent to be justified? I only know of repentance being a process of Sanctification which happens from the point of conversion till our physical deaths.
The word, justified, is not in there, so it is not saying, 'Do these things and then you will be justified'. That would be salvation by works, as in, 'Say these particular words, and then you are good to go'.
Justification is the doctrine that God pardons, accepts, and declares a sinner to be "just" on the basis of Christ's righteousness (Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 5:15-21) which results in God's peace (Rom 5:1), His Spirit (Rom 8:4), and salvation. Justification is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ apart from all works and merit of the sinner (cf. Rom 1:18-3:28).
Just as you don't just say, as a Jew, 'I believe in the Law', and are done, you don't hear the Word which brings salvation, then say, 'I heard the Gospel and believe it', and are done.
Justification is a legal term and it is a positive outcome of judgement.
I thought you said that on the creation thread but maybe I have you confused with what XPlaneX said, so I may have made a mistake, or I assumed that since you did not object to what he posted, that you agreed with him.
"First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also,
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." Acts 26:20
You already engaged in it by throwing that in when it was not in there, then pretending as if it was, so too late for saying you are not going to get into it.
Seriously, I'm not going to engage in semantic gymnastics over the central NT doctrine of justification.
That's funny because you were saying earlier repentance was part of sanctification so we never actually achieve repentance in this lifetime.
We should repent, continually! Our lives should be ones marked by repentance.
Our faith in Christ's sacrifice justifies us JM. And no, faith is NOT a work of righteousness. 10 books of the NT contrast faith and works, if they were the same those chapters and verses would be absolutely meaningless.
No, Christ died so we can become suitable to represent the work of God.
Christ, you didn't die for nothing. Thank you for the salvation you wrought by your faithfulness and sacrifice. Thank you for bearing my sins, Amen.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
You already engaged in it by throwing that in when it was not in there, then pretending as if it was, so too late for saying you are not going to get into it.
Seriously, I'm not going to engage in semantic gymnastics over the central NT doctrine of justification.
You already did, by throwing the word in when it does not fit into the verse being discussed, and so changed the issue into something else, otherwise known as offering a red herring, thus being a "gymnastic".
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
You already engaged in it by throwing that in when it was not in there, then pretending as if it was, so too late for saying you are not going to get into it.
Seriously, I'm not going to engage in semantic gymnastics over the central NT doctrine of justification.
I didn't say I won't discuss the doctrine of justification, cuz I surely will, and have been, I said I will not "engage in symantic gymnastics" with the term.
Big difference.
What do you call it when you say adding any conditions makes it not free grace?
And no one, especially myself, has been teaching it's okay to sin. That's a lie and I've yet to hear your apology for continually claiming I advocate sin.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
That's funny because you were saying earlier repentance was part of sanctification so we never actually achieve repentance in this lifetime.
We should repent, continually! Our lives should be ones marked by repentance.
Our faith in Christ's sacrifice justifies us JM. And no, faith is NOT a work of righteousness. 10 books of the NT contrast faith and works, if they were the same those chapters and verses would be absolutely meaningless.
You are making me out as having said things which I did not, which is what you do all the time because you don't want to deal with what I actually do say.
Jesus' sacrifice is what gives us the opportunity to have a judgement by doing away with the Old Covenant and instituting the New Covenant, where some will be able to receive a positive verdict (justified).
Faith which comes from God is the guiding influence on us to gain the righteousness required to get that positive verdict.
Faith is the substitute for the Law, where the old system had the law by which you would seek justification and the new system has faith by which you can seek justification.
Faith is not just an intellectual assent to the Gospel. There is another word which would mean that, which is, belief.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
No, Christ died so we can become suitable to represent the work of God.
Christ, you didn't die for nothing. Thank you for the salvation you wrought by your faithfulness and sacrifice. Thank you for bearing my sins, Amen.
The sacrifice was to free us from the covenant and the law and the god of the Old Testament so we can become the subjects of the Lord Jesus who replaced the person called lord in olden times, and to be in communion with the real God who created the entire universe, the Father of Jesus.
The bearing sins for us is an allusion to the suffering servant of Isaiah 53, and means that he was accounted a sinner, but has nothing to do with dying to pay for sins.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
What do you call it when you say adding any conditions makes it not free grace?
And no one, especially myself, has been teaching it's okay to sin. That's a lie and I've yet to hear your apology for continually claiming I advocate sin.
Not sinning, to you is adding a condition, so you are saying, sin all you want and it does not matter because all you have to do is ask one time, out loud, and with just the right words, your self-proclamation of being saved, and from that point on, nothing else matters.
"Repentance unto life is a saving grace, whereby a sinner out of a true sense of his sin, and apprehension of the mercy of God in Christ, doth, with grief and hatred of his sin, turn from it unto God, with full purpose of, and endeavor after new obedience".
"Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death." 2 Cor. 7:9-10
"Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:14,15
"Biblical repentance as preached by John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the apostles, is A CHANGE OF MIND TOWARD GOD AND SIN THAT RESULTS IN A CHANGE OF LIFE. IT IS A SPIRIT-WROUGHT CHANGE OF MIND THAT LEADS TO A CHANGE OF LIFE. It is not a change of life. That would be a works salvation. It is a radical, Spirit-wrought change of mind toward sin and God, such a dramatic change of mind that it changes one’s actions. "
"In the New Testament, the word translated as 'repentance' is the Greek word μετάνοια (metanoia), "after/behind one's mind", which is a compound word of the preposition 'meta' (after, with), and the verb 'noeo' (to perceive, to think, the result of perceiving or observing). In this compound word the preposition combines the two meanings of time and change, which may be denoted by 'after' and 'different'; so that the whole compound means: 'to think differently after'. Metanoia is therefore primarily an after-thought, different from the former thought; a change of mind accompanied by regret and change of conduct, "change of mind and heart", or, "change of consciousness". A description of repentance in the New Testament can be found in the parable of the prodigal son found in the Gospel of Luke (15 beginning at verse 11)."