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Confusion on a quote from the NT

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posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 12:46 AM

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

Christ, you didn't die for nothing. Thank you for the salvation you wrought by your faithfulness and sacrifice. Thank you for bearing my sins, Amen.
No, Christ died so we can become suitable to represent the work of God.
The sacrifice was to free us from the covenant and the law and the god of the Old Testament so we can become the subjects of the Lord Jesus who replaced the person called lord in olden times, and to be in communion with the real God who created the entire universe, the Father of Jesus.
The bearing sins for us is an allusion to the suffering servant of Isaiah 53, and means that he was accounted a sinner, but has nothing to do with dying to pay for sins.

More nonsense. Christ died for US. He died for OUR sins. He gave His life for us, bearing OUR sins on the cross.
What you just said right there is all true and can be backed up with the New Testament.
But that leaves a lot of theology you promote to just twist in the wind.
Such as all the implications derived from that very narrow set of biblical facts, including the concept of individual sin debt being paid for by Jesus.
People seem to like to make proclamations like, "I am saved because Jesus died to pay for all my sins, past, present, and future!".
That sounds really nice but there is no verse that says that and it is just a slogan that gets repeated enough to where people accept it as fact and probably believe that there is a verse in the Bible saying that, and that they could it find if they ever went to the trouble of looking for it one day. Now we have searchable data bases so things like that can not escape our notice.
The closest thing to saying that would be 1 John 1 where the writer says that the blood of Jesus purifies us from sins, which could be taken to mean that it makes it possible for us to become pure, and not just symbolicaly but in actual fact, which the context seems to be pointing to.
edit on 10-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 11:21 PM
reply to post by Nkinga

Peter comes across as a bit of gossip, according to John 21 because a rumor was spread, undoubtedly by him. It's also important to note, that the author of John (no matter who you believe wrote it) knew that there was a beloved disciple whom Jesus loved.

In my opinion, the author of this text is the beloved disciple. It's a known fact, that this narrative is quite different from the previous three and there is good reason for it if you consider that the author of the gospel of John is the young man Lazarus who had just been raised from the dead - back in chapter 11.

Not only is the beloved disciple Lazarus, Jesus probably bestowed on him a "new name" of John. Jesus speaks in the Revelation, of giving people who overcome certain gifts; new name, writing on them his new name and the name of his city, the right to eat from the tree of life - it's a lengthy list.

Also it's more probable than not, that this same person is not only the young man at the end of "Mark" who they tried to capture along with Jesus when he was arrested but also the "man" the disciples were looking for who would lead them to the place where they were to prepare for the Passover. Jesus told them to look for a man carrying a water pitcher and this is the man who led them to the upper room. At the end of Mark, when Jesus is arrested, they caught this young man too, but it says he fled naked after losing his linen cloth.

All these pieces of information are like a puzzle with a missing piece. The Holy Spirit brought me into remembrance of quite a few things regarding all of this. The first being that the Gospel of John is the only narrative where Jesus takes his own clothes off and wraps a towel around his waist and washes his disciples feet. He even tells them, that they Don't Realize what it is he is doing - but later they will. They would eventually find out at Pentacost, though they don't elaborate much on what they were feeling "internally".

On the other hand, we have the author of John who knew and realized the significance of washing feet. Scripture cannont be broken, and it's pretty clear for Jesus to live inside us we must be washed by him. The Holy Spirit baptism is a cleansing fire. An internal process, that begins in the feet, coursing through our blood and nervous systems. It is the new blood covenant, that culminates into a love created for us by God. Mans ways are below - God's ways are above. Rippling ecstacy, through the mind, where you can't physically stand and suddenly you know and understand the deep mysteries of the Messiah.

The beloved disciple knew all the mysteries, knew Jesus and knew Jesus loved him. Jesus taught him the mysteries and they are all recorded in the Gospel of John. It's the most definitive of the revelatory process that we have to date. When one experiences a mystery, they are labeled "miraculous sign" or miracle and most often accompanied with a time stamp. That is how we know each other by the fruit. The culminating act of the Holy Spirit baptism always occurs during the day between the hours of noon and 1.

Jesus is the bridegroom and God is awesome. Anyone reading up to this point may want to go take another look at the Mar Saba letter (secret Mark) with a fresh set of eyes.

edit on 10-9-2011 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 11:44 AM
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

The Lord Jesus assigned His mother to John while on the cross. The account in the gospel of John calls this apostle the one whom He loved.

posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 12:18 PM
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

It's a known fact, that this narrative is quite different from the previous three. . .
That's why you have the other three Gospels called the Synoptic Gospels.
I went through John because of this thread to see who it does name as the disciples.
There is not list of names. There are some names mentioned:
The Sons of Zebedee.

posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:05 AM

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

We should repent, continually! Our lives should be ones marked by repentance.

Our faith in Christ's sacrifice justifies us JM. And no, faith is NOT a work of righteousness. 10 books of the NT contrast faith and works, if they were the same those chapters and verses would be absolutely meaningless.
That's funny because you were saying earlier repentance was part of sanctification so we never actually achieve repentance in this lifetime.

I never said "we never actually achieve repentance in this lifetime". Re-read what I said.

You are making me out as having said things which I did not, which is what you do all the time because you don't want to deal with what I actually do say.

That potentially is the most ironic statement I have ever read or heard JM. I'm constantly complaining that you straw man what I say and believe. But whatever, I've come to realize ATS is like a parallel universe where truth is lies, good is actually evil, up is really down, and the truth is all false.

Jesus' sacrifice is what gives us the opportunity to have a judgement by doing away with the Old Covenant and instituting the New Covenant, where some will be able to receive a positive verdict (justified).

Bull****, we are justified freely by God's grace based on the completed work of Christ. He bore our sins on the cross.

Faith which comes from God is the guiding influence on us to gain the righteousness required to get that positive verdict.

Nonsense, we are gifted Christ's righteousness, He took our sins and in exchange gives us His righteousness. It's what "imputation" means.

Faith is the substitute for the Law, where the old system had the law by which you would seek justification and the new system has faith by which you can seek justification.

Ever read Galatians? Paul states that man has always been justified by faith and gives Abraham as the example who was justified 530 years before the law was given to Moses.

Faith is not just an intellectual assent to the Gospel. There is another word which would mean that, which is, belief.

Correct, the synonym for "faith" is "trust", I place my trust in Christ that His sacrifice was a completed work for my justification.

Everything that is good about God's redemptive plan for mankind is in this post.

posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 11:36 AM
reply to post by NOTurTypical

Well, I guess that's one way of looking at it, that Jesus "assigned" his Mother to the beloved disciple, as long as you are referring to it in a highly spiritual sense and not thinking like Peter so often did, that the answer rests solely with a physical explanation. It's much deeper than that.

Remember the story where Jesus is hanging out with some disciples and his mom and brothers came an stood outside waiting for him? Someone told him, 'Hey, your mom and your brothers are standing outside and they want to speak to you.' He pointed to them, and stated, 'Who is my mother, and who my brothers? For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.'

He is talking to you, my friend - from the absolute highest vantage point he can, from way up there on the cross. The Holy Spirit baptism and Jesus suspended and dying for you, me, the entire world - meld into one event. The power of God lifts Jesus up inside you and he must be lifted up. Lifting him up inside you is the true power of the cross and embodies every single teaching that revolves around his first coming; the baptism of fire and spirit promised.

At this point, we could go into what it means to really know Jesus. His own prophecy is that not very many find that narrow path to life. The opening post of this thread basically asks the question, 'What does Jesus mean, when he told Peter, "If I want him to REMAIN ALIVE until I return, what is it to you? You follow me.'

Jesus comes again, and again, and again, and again - everytime someone experiences the baptism of the Holy Spirit and he comes to dwell inside them. We are in a time of delay, and this will continue until a certain amount of people are brought into these high truths. When the full number is reached, angels will be dispatched to gather his breed.

This is the true elect. An X amount of beloved disciples make up his body and true church. One must ask theirself - am I a beloved disciple? Can I lean back on Jesus and ask him anything and him answer, whether through a dream, vision or prophecy?

Do I really know him and does he really know me?

Behold! Behold!
edit on 12-9-2011 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 11:46 AM
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
Paul talked about people who belonged to a certain organization who had a zealousness for the institution but missed the main point they should have gotten from it.
I think that some people come across the modern day version of that, and develop a zeal for it and its institutions. We are all in danger of falling into the trap of accepting a ready-made religion without coming to it ourselves.

edit on 12-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 12:44 PM
reply to post by jmdewey60

It's always been the zeal of and for the Lord that accompishes things.

I bet if we polled the typical christian on what Jesus meant when he said, "I come quickly" the vast majority would claim it has more to do with his second coming, than his first, even though they Know that he sits at the right hand of the Father for the last couple thousand years.

It all goes to why there is a delay and the fact that people don't know the mystery of God, which is revealed through Jesus. Most look for his second coming (whether you believe that involes a rapture, second coming or a combo is beside the point) and fail to realize that eternal life is for the living and not some metaphor for the afterlife.

He is the bridegroom and God is making his bride. The gift of eternal life is always found at Jacob's well. What has happened, will happen. Three OT stories have Moses, Isaac and Jacob all finding their wives at a well. Jesus shows how us gentiles are grafted in, through the wonderful story of the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well.

We all have access to a wonderful loving God. Repenting is such a beautiful thing to God and the true path starts here. It's not enough to know of Jesus. People can drone on and on about what they think something means, and think they know him, when they are really missing the mark and in all actuality, their minds and hearts are far from him. You are really good at doing threads and making people think deep. You should do one on how to move closer to God based on the scripture of 'their hearts and minds are far from me" and "ever hearing and seeing but not knowing and understanding.". And the importance of him saying "Here I am!"

edit on 12-9-2011 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:12 PM
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

. . how to move closer to God. . .
I'm kind of stuck at the question of whether people even need to do that. I think once someone gets beyond that point, then the rest sort of it comes naturally. People seem to generally fall into a complacency, thinking they have already done enough just to listen to something being said by someone else and giving it a nod.
As for being good at doing anything, I try to write well, like they used to teach in school back in the day.

edit on 12-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:28 PM
reply to post by jmdewey60

There is always a need as long as time keeps marching on at the pace it's going.

You are right though. Many put their sunday best on, head to church and nod and agree with whatever is being preached. Then next Sunday, they rinse and repeat.Lol

More focus needs to be on the children of the bridechamber, and how to achieve it by understanding the true context behind the words "Follow me."
edit on 12-9-2011 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 05:25 PM
reply to post by Nkinga
It is easy if you look on the cross. Judas died before the cross. So will he be alive? If he was a believer, yes he was, but not after the cross, so he become back on earth and haven't like the other diciples a place in heaven..... but.. as u know, the graves went open by His crusyfiction, so the possibility Judas could be in Heaven too.

posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 05:34 PM

Originally posted by jeramie

John 21:15-17(KJV)
15So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

The Lord Jesus asked Peter twice in "Agapé" and ounce in "Philio". Peter cannot give the Lord Jesus full love like Agapé but he can give friendship like Philio.

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