CA Dream ACT or AB130 if passed will make it legal for illegal immigrant students to apply for state

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posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


Well to be honest, we have to make priorities. And what you have to realize is that if they go back educated to fix their own country, they allow their country to support their own citizens, thus decreasing the number of illegal immigrants coming here.

I sort of have no problem with illegal immigrants as long as they learn our language and respect our rules. Pretty much, agree to do that, and I'll make you a citizen after completing your education.

Of course there are historic examples of this being a bad idea. Namely, Japan practically training their entire military leadership in America before going to war against us. Still, we can influence them here, to do good over there.

This is reverse cultural warfare, and even today we have the opportunity to focus on foreign exchange students from, say, China, and educate them on the values we cherish, bringing them back to their country, and in turn, making China one of our great allies in the future.


Never pass up an opportunity to change the thinking of an entire country.
edit on 4-9-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by MightyWizard
reply to post by kerazeesicko
 


wow

I would say more, people who worries about insignificant people must be at the same level . So they suck the milk of the system but are jealous of some poor ones who are just trying to survive .


Once when my Mom was in the hospital, she had an 87 year old roomate. This woman was telling us how she tried to get help with thousands of dollars in medical bills and was denied because she made 2.00 over the poverty limit. Was she jelous of the illegals that got free healthcare and all their needs met? No, she was highly upset and had every right to be. No one is insignificant no matter what their race or culture. The problem is that we have poor people here who are citizens, who do not get the free hand-outs that illegals are getting.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Most illegals have no desire to return to their own country for any reason. There are many who have returned after saving money made here because their money from here is worth so much more in their own Country, but that was to no one elses benefit but their own.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


Well once you're illegal, your own desires become nullified. You either make a deal with the state, or you leave.

Sounds sort of like slavery know, but it's the only way.
edit on 4-9-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
You know after writing my last post/reply, I started thinking. If someone enters the US illegally, what are they hiding and/or possibly running from? Why can't they apply for their green card like thousands of others do every year? Are they intentionally trying to circumvent our laws by entering the US illegally?

I would have to answer yes to my last question which makes me even more upset about illegal immigrants. They do not have good intentions IMO. Because, if they did they would not have a problem going through the proper channels of Naturalization. They didn't accidentally come here nor were they brought here by force. So ....nope no money for you!

I do understand that in some countries it is just plainly put unbearable and many people can not feed oneself let alone their family as is the current case with places like Ethiopia, Sudan, parts of India, etc., etc. I would consider these people refugees.

Still, I'm not paying for their education, but I do not wish to see any other human being suffer and go hungry or have to suffer disease with no healthcare. This world is in serious trouble and I realize people just want a better way of life. But, it is not up to the citizens of the US to freakin' bail everyone out we have families too. Get a grip and go complain to your own governments. Hell, start a protest or something already! It seems to be working in the Middle East.

Just a thought and a rant...sorry.
edit on 9/4/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)


There are many criminal illegal immigrants who have been arrested and deported numerous times. One young girl lost both her legs because of an illegal who had previous arrests and deportations. Thousands of people have been murdered, raped, children attacked by pedophiles etc. It is highly upsetting that so many tradgedies could have been avoided had our laws been enforced.




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


Well to be honest, we have to make priorities. And what you have to realize is that if they go back educated to fix their own country, they allow their country to support their own citizens, thus decreasing the number of illegal immigrants coming here.

I sort of have no problem with illegal immigrants as long as they learn our language and respect our rules. Pretty much, agree to do that, and I'll make you a citizen after completing your education.

Of course there are historic examples of this being a bad idea. Namely, Japan practically training their entire military leadership in America before going to war against us. Still, we can influence them here, to do good over there.

This is reverse cultural warfare, and even today we have the opportunity to focus on foreign exchange students from, say, China, and educate them on the values we cherish, bringing them back to their country, and in turn, making China one of our great allies in the future.


Never pass up an opportunity to change the thinking of an entire country.
edit on 4-9-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)





Gosh, this is why I appreciate your opinion so. You always leave that loophole of thought. What you said sounds good and thank you for your opinion but................

I still won't pay for it









posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 

I understand. But America is a republic. Which means really it's consensus with protection for the minority. Though honestly I'd favor consensus pay versus mandatory. Imagine if you only payed taxes because you felt like you should versus the threat of prison. Kind of would make the government listen a bit more me thinks. For such big supporters of personal freedoms and community support, you'd think they'd do it that way.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


I don't know where you got this idea from when it come to China:


This is reverse cultural warfare, and even today we have the opportunity to focus on foreign exchange students from, say, China, and educate them on the values we cherish, bringing them back to their country, and in turn, making China one of our great allies in the future.


I can guarantee you Chinese Exchange Student do not come to America and Cherish American Values.
Chinese students are often Embarrassed here and don't understand the American dress culture, Like Saggy Pats on boys and girls often Embarrass them. The sexual Activity and the Partying among our students and the lack of wanting to study, leaves Chinese Students, Wondering How Our Young Survive.
Chinese people are very conservative when it comes to clothing. Most of them don't wear swimsuits on the beach. During traditional festival, the Chinese like to dress up before joining the festival. Middle aged women wear cheong-sam which is a skirt; men usually dress up in a suit and tie. The Chinese feel that wearing an indecent dress will take away your dignity. The younger generation would wear semi-formal clothing to fit in the banquet or festival.

Chinese Students Often Have Orders From Their Local Government and Parents on how they are to conduct themselves here.
The last thing they would want to do is, Bring Shame on their family name or Home Town ( Village )

I often drive Chinese Exchange Student from both, A.S.U and PHX. College around to the Chinese stores, (Lam's and Le Le's ) and the Chinese Cultural Center.
They talk to me and I listen to them and try to help them understand the cultural difference.
One of their major complaints is,,,, Guess What,,,, Come On,,,, Take A Guess,,,,, YES, How The American Educational System Caterers To Spanish Speaking Students. Before these Chinese Students can even be considered to come to America by their current school and local government, they Must Pass High School Level and College Level English,,,, Not 90 % but 100 %, Again it has to do with Pride in yourself and Respect of the Host Country.



edit on 4-9-2011 by guohua because: (no reason given)
edit on 4-9-2011 by guohua because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by muse7
 


And they are doing it with stolen identifications, my husband federal return was withheld this year because some illegal decided to use my SS number to claim a return somewhere in another state and until this matter was investigated by the IRS we had to wait for our return.

That is how they can work in this nation stealing identities like my name and SS, because I am Latina and have a PR very different SS number, anybody from PR have the same particular first 3 numbers that distinguish us as Puertorricans.

edit on 4-9-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by guohua
 


I know all of this. What I am saying, why don't we try to change that?

I am very impressed by this culture, but it can be improved, or influenced.

Why should we sit there and watch that when we have the opportunity to change it? To introduce a little Taoism into that Confucius lineage?



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


So you mean to tell me that the two individuals I know whom graduated med school, and nursing school, achieved the highest grades amongst all their classmates, and applied for licensure in the STATE OF NEW YORK to practice have no intention to pay taxes? In my profession I speak with many illegal immigrants, and they almost all have children in college here in the U.S. that are studying to become professionals. I've even began to see Mexican policemen in the N.Y.P.D. Yesterday I saw one who looked so fresh off the boat, in plain clothes arresting some guy.
The majority of these illegals don't apply for citizenship or residency mainly due to ignorance. They don't know any better. They're afraid of anything and everything that involves a governmental agency. I've known men whom have literally been run over by a car, and chose not to go to the hospital and tough it out, just so he can cover his children's tuition expenses for their private schools through his hard work and sacrifice. Does that mean that because he's an illegal immigrant, and his children received citizenship through naturalization, that the money he pays toward private school, supplies, clothes, utilities, etc isn't his small contribution to our society?
I don't know where this ignorance of their migration being based on the take-over of a land that was once theirs came from. The majority of the illegal immigrants have never even had a formal education to have learned such ideologies. They come to this country with an ignorant mind-set that they learned from television and their families abroad, who send back pictures and messages of them acquiring luxuries they've never had before. And the only reason why they do this is to maintain some sort of facade that they've done well in this country. Meanwhile the family back home doesn't even realize that when their transplanted loved one in the U.S. is sharing a can of beans and a bag of tortillas with a dozen people.
It's pretty ironic that we're both descendant from African slaves. I'm sure you can make that correlation on your own. So...um...it kind of does make it my business. Haven't ya heard a good salsa song or band play? Gee, I wonder where those rhythms came from? It didn't come from MTV or BET.
Today immigrant labor is our modern-day slavery. Don't fool yourself. Do you think they want to leave their families and all that they know, to come work somewhere that's potentially dangerous for them and their cause? To me, the necessity of eating and providing for their families is them being forcefully driven out their homes to ensure a better well-being for their families.
Considering all the crap that our money is being spent on that we'll never even know about it, I'd rather know that my hard earned money is going toward someone who wants to make a difference in this world, themselves, and their families. There's no greater reward than knowing you've sacrificed to help someone who is truly in need.
What I'm having a great difficulty understanding is how someone like you, with your background, your descent, your skin color would dish out the same bigotry and ignorance that you face on a daily basis. I guess that's just the irony. Kinda reminds me of this;
edit on 5-9-2011 by Sparkitekt because: fixed vid



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by guohua
 


Slavery. Need I say more?
Regardless of the terms and conditions as to why they were brought here, they were never given the right to become American citizens after they worked their asses off for nothing. They weren't allowed to attend schools, learn to read/write, or even simple hygiene. They had to fight, almost to the death, to gain respect and acceptance amongst their white counterparts and their society.
Do you need a link to 200+ years of history to prove that to you, or are you one of those that pretend like those times never happened?
Have you ever been to Ellis Island? Have you ever seen the cargo containers filled to the ceiling with illegal immigrants from Asia? The Cuban and Dominican refugees that come floating in on anything that has a little buoyancy? Where do/did they all work? Doing the jobs of the American's who felt they were too good to take on that work. Back when skyscraper's were being built, there were no union backed steel workers. No, there were Italian's and Irishmen who were sacrificing their lives to build the cities we have today. Do you need a link to that too?
I've grown pretty tired of people like you on this site, where you need a url to substantiate what one says. This isn't some rant about a UFO or some unicorn with wings. It doesn't take a link or a website for you to pull up a bit of what you learned in history class to back up what I say.
But I am thankful that you took the time to research my comment and come back with some meaningless statement.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Sparkitekt
 


You know, while you are right on your history "to a point" I think you are confusing " immigration" that help build the country with the "modern immigration" that is importing poverty and making a burden on the already overtaxed working class.

You are trying to prove a point and that is commendable, but do not confuse what is going right now in America with what history tells us about our humble beginnings as immigrants.

Even my littler Island is burdened by illegal immigration from neighboring Islands because we are a territory of the US, so children born in the Island from illegal immigrants become Americans just like in the US.

You can imagine what that is doing to a very small Island. We have free health care for the citizens but now the illegal immigration is causing the system to be burdened by them, too much been dumped on the tax payers in the island, while illegals contribute to nothing as we have very high unemployed.




edit on 5-9-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I'm on the same page as you.
I realize the difference between the times. But ultimately it still boils down to the same thing. I see the burden that many illegal immigrants bear on all. From my standpoint, with my experience, my dealings with the subjects, there's no difference today than 100 years ago. A hundred years ago immigrants were placing the same burden on their society as they are in today's. The only difference now is that there's an insurance, a benefit, or a coverage for virtually any thing on this planet. And those expenses multiply exponentially due to our modern day economical constraints. It's like they say..."history repeats itself"...and surely it will once again with the new influx of illegal immigrants. It'll only take one to two generations of illegals to turn the tides and become our future TAX PAYING leaders, doctors, lawyers, etc...
To me, the bigger issue here is those who come with student visas and take all that they've learned and apply it elsewhere. There are many that qualify for financial aid, receive it, and then leave once they've graduated. Who's left to foot the bill then? Not them, they're back home bringing their country revenues.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Sparkitekt
 


I definitely understand what you mean, sadly is a lot more going on with immigration, no only from south the border but imported immigrants thanks the H1 visas, (those are the lucky ones).

Still, I live in Ga, (thanks to be married to a former now retired marine) I was a Spanish teacher for a while, but before that I used to work with a lawyer on migrant workers comp.

After that I did some work with migrant workers children in the state through federal grants and the school system, trust me I am very sensitive to hardship even when I am lucky enough to never been in that type of situation that many migrant workers has to deal with and the children.

We did help many, but then it started to become overwhelming even for the helpers, trying to educate the children so they could educate the parents.

Yes slavery is still practiced in the US but because never reach the news unless in extreme cases people don't even dream what goes on behind their noses and in their comunities.

edit on 5-9-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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if's ILLEGAL for foreign student visa holders to APPLY for state (residency)?

really?

i



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Sparkitekt
reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 






So you mean to tell me that the two individuals I know whom graduated med school, and nursing school, achieved the highest grades amongst all their classmates, and applied for licensure in the STATE OF NEW YORK to practice have no intention to pay taxes?


I don't know why you're asking me a question about someone you know! Why wouldn't they pay taxes? Also, if they made into college/grad school then obviously they're legal citizens or are in the process of Natrualization. What does their situation have to do with our discussion. Please be kind enough to ellaborate.




In my profession I speak with many illegal immigrants, and they almost all have children in college here in the U.S. that are studying to become professionals. I've even began to see Mexican policemen in the N.Y.P.D. Yesterday I saw one who looked so fresh off the boat, in plain clothes arresting some guy.


Okay, the parents are illegal immigrants as you stated. Obviously, their children were born in the US so that would entitle their children to the rest of the benefits that US citizens have. I see nothing wrong with that...I see it all the time here in Los Angeles. The issue with Bill AB130 is that it would give educational rights to children who are again, Illegal immigrants...meaning they were not born here and neither were there parents. I'm not talking about children who were born in the US, whether their parents are legal citizens or not...I'm referring to families who BRING their children into the US illegally. There's a big difference there.




The majority of these illegals don't apply for citizenship or residency mainly due to ignorance. They don't know any better. They're afraid of anything and everything that involves a governmental agency. I've known men whom have literally been run over by a car, and chose not to go to the hospital and tough it out, just so he can cover his children's tuition expenses for their private schools through his hard work and sacrifice. Does that mean that because he's an illegal immigrant, and his children received citizenship through naturalization, that the money he pays toward private school, supplies, clothes, utilities, etc isn't his small contribution to our society?
I don't know where this ignorance of their migration being based on the take-over of a land that was once theirs came from. The majority of the illegal immigrants have never even had a formal education to have learned such ideologies. They come to this country with an ignorant mind-set that they learned from television and their families abroad, who send back pictures and messages of them acquiring luxuries they've never had before. And the only reason why they do this is to maintain some sort of facade that they've done well in this country. Meanwhile the family back home doesn't even realize that when their transplanted loved one in the U.S. is sharing a can of beans and a bag of tortillas with a dozen people.


Okay, I understand your point however, I am still unwilling to pay for their ignorance. There's no way you can make me believe that these people don't have a clue! If they're so ignorant, how do they know that if they come to the USA...they will get benefits? Because their other relatives who got in here before them told them how it works...Come on man stop that!




It's pretty ironic that we're both descendant from African slaves. I'm sure you can make that correlation on your own. So...um...it kind of does make it my business. Haven't ya heard a good salsa song or band play? Gee, I wonder where those rhythms came from? It didn't come from MTV or BET.


No, it doesn't make it any of your business period but thank you for sharing that. I am fully aware of my African music background. I am also aware that Santana gave Olatunji Babtunde credit for many of the songs that he covered. Not to mention, one of the greatest drummers that ever lived was my uncle, my brother is has toured with MJJ and is currently rehearsing for the Cirque Du Soleil "Immortal" tour, I have played piano and the violin since I was 7...I have travelled to Africa...and Egypt and many other places including the Middle East, Europe and Aisia. I'm very intuned with music and World History. If I said that I had two daughters in college and that I have already graduated college years ago, I am obviously old enough to know the difference between music and its relationship with MTV and BET, which in my opinion is nothing but crap.

I will be replying to the rest of your post in another post, the system is deleting my words. Sorry, BRB.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by Sparkitekt
reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 






Today immigrant labor is our modern-day slavery. Don't fool yourself. Do you think they want to leave their families and all that they know, to come work somewhere that's potentially dangerous for them and their cause? To me, the necessity of eating and providing for their families is them being forcefully driven out their homes to ensure a better well-being for their families.
Considering all the crap that our money is being spent on that we'll never even know about it, I'd rather know that my hard earned money is going toward someone who wants to make a difference in this world, themselves, and their families. There's no greater reward than knowing you've sacrificed to help someone who is truly in need.
What I'm having a great difficulty understanding is how someone like you, with your background, your descent, your skin color would dish out the same bigotry and ignorance that you face on a daily basis. I guess that's just the irony. Kinda reminds me of this;


You just seem to be missing the point by contiuously talking about everything except what my thread is about. My thread isn't about illegals and slavery or any of that. If you want to discuss those things by all means go ahead and start a thread about it. Whatever problems they are having in their country of origin is between them and their government. But when they bring their problems here and demand money out of my pocket for their kids education, then they have stepped out of line in my opinion. Like I said, I'm not paying for an illegal child to attend school at my expense. Me being of African and Native ancestry has nothing to do with this issue. As a matter of fact, I can tell you the black side of my family is just as furious about this as is many other ethnicities. It's not a black or white issue. It's not a Chinese or Mexican issue. It's an AMERICAN TAX PAYING CITIZEN ISSUE.

My skin color has nothing to do with it. The only one who apparently is a bigot is you SIR, you proved that by including a racist comedy sketch that isn't funny by the way. As far as ignorance goes, you have already shown myself and a few of the posters in here how ignorant you are...you can't even stay on topic let alone comprehend the topic of this thread.

That freakin' video you uploaded is racist and has nothing to do with me. You can apply it to someone you know wearing a white hood, cause I ain't the one little fella! I'm done with you and you have a nice day
edit on 9/5/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 





I sort of have no problem with illegal immigrants as long as they learn our language and respect our rules.


I have no problem with people who illegally steal tax payer confiscated money to pay for them? really? I do!
Let them educate their own children in their own country to start and save us tax money. Along with medical and schools that they illegally use.
What do people not understand what illegal means? Shall we just release all child molesters if the POTUS decides to not prosecute them also? I still believe it this goes back to NAFTA and CAFTA. Bush didn't help either. No other country in the world does this? Why?



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by ignant
if's ILLEGAL for foreign student visa holders to APPLY for state (residency)?

really?

i


Students that want to attend college in the US must obtain a F-1 F-2 or F-3 Visa (non-immigrant student visa) for school. Not sure if they can get aid, but I know there are certain conditions under which they may work.

We're talking about children in this country illegally (not born in the US) that are demanding the same financial rights as US citizens or legal immigrants.

Hope this helps
Student Visa Info
edit on 9/5/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)





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