CA Dream ACT or AB130 if passed will make it legal for illegal immigrant students to apply for state

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posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by mugger
reply to post by Gorman91
 





I sort of have no problem with illegal immigrants as long as they learn our language and respect our rules.


I have no problem with people who illegally steal tax payer confiscated money to pay for them? really? I do!
Let them educate their own children in their own country to start and save us tax money. Along with medical and schools that they illegally use.
What do people not understand what illegal means? Shall we just release all child molesters if the POTUS decides to not prosecute them also? I still believe it this goes back to NAFTA and CAFTA. Bush didn't help either. No other country in the world does this? Why?



No other country in the world does this because it costs too dam much to their tax payers....Good Ol' US Government and the States however, have no problem making us pay for the well being and now education of illegals.

edit on 9/5/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by mugger
 


Well you're running on several fallacies there, most high, is the term illegal. Fact is, laws can be flawed. 200 years ago your same argument would be used to keep black people down.

So yea, get off your high horse. We all know what illegal means. And a lot of us don't really care. The best governments are the ones that know that laws are just advise to follow. I've no problem breaking a few laws to save a life or improve another.

Fact is, laws are only as effective as people choose to follow them. There's plenty of laws in this country that are not followed at all but still stand. They've just run into disuse.


Now onward, if you and I as Americans weren't so incredibly fat, lazy, stupid, and ignorant, then maybe we should send them back to their own country to learn there. But fact is, Americans as of late fail spectacularly so bad, that we are forced to get students from elsewhere in order to run our economy, government, and laws. You want to change that? Do what your grandfather did, get off your butt, and change the world. Don't like it? Well then sit back down and shut up, because your sloth is the reason we need these people to continue providing new ways of keeping your lazy butt alive.
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edit on 5-9-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by mugger
 





Well you're running on several fallacies there, most high, is the term illegal. Fact is, laws can be flawed. 200 years ago your same argument would be used to keep black people down.

So yea, get off your high horse. We all know what illegal means. And a lot of us don't really care. The best governments are the ones that know that laws are just advise to follow. I've no problem breaking a few laws to save a life or improve another.

Fact is, laws are only as effective as people choose to follow them. There's plenty of laws in this country that are not followed at all but still stand. They've just run into disuse.



Although that maybe true...well it is true...to force people to pay for someone's education who is not currently contributing to our tax system is wrong Gorman...it's just not right and I'm not the only one who feels this way. I am one of the most giving people around and I like many others have no problem helping others whether they're illegal or not, but for the state of California to force its citizens to such treason is just unspeakable and unfair.

That is what my argument is. There are thousands of private organizations that give money to illegal students every year for higher education and if a person chooses to donate their money to such a cause, is their right. I don't see why the rest of us are being labelled as ignorant because we do not want to be forced to pay for something we do not agree with. We're not able to even vote on this!!!!!



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


It was a continuation to my previous post as well. If they have bad grades, then they're out. And if they're on our tax code, they're living under our house, and therefore our rules. And I say we should use them as an asset. be it the change of their country to one more of our liking, or the addition to our own country in ways we like it.

They're getting cash from us, so we should be able to use them as assets in the world.

The Ottomans did something like this of sorts. The Devşirme system enabled them to request either by peaceful or forceful means to select skilled Christians in their empire and essentially enslave them to be their leaders and top executives. It would be like enslaving a Mexican and training him to be the president of the US, and then letting him do just that.

Obviously the system itself is archaic, but the idea is solid. We select the illegals whom have skills, we tell them they either do what we say or leave, and we use their skills to change their country or benefit ours.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


It was a continuation to my previous post as well. If they have bad grades, then they're out. And if they're on our tax code, they're living under our house, and therefore our rules. And I say we should use them as an asset. be it the change of their country to one more of our liking, or the addition to our own country in ways we like it.

They're getting cash from us, so we should be able to use them as assets in the world.

The Ottomans did something like this of sorts. The Devşirme system enabled them to request either by peaceful or forceful means to select skilled Christians in their empire and essentially enslave them to be their leaders and top executives. It would be like enslaving a Mexican and training him to be the president of the US, and then letting him do just that.

Obviously the system itself is archaic, but the idea is solid. We select the illegals whom have skills, we tell them they either do what we say or leave, and we use their skills to change their country or benefit ours.





Hmmm...now I'm trying to keep up with you here, but I dunno about this one. Where I live there's a very big Armenian population here and if you even bring up the Ottoman Empire with them they get all bent outta shape and rightfully so, I guess.

In all honesty, I'd have to say, I totally disagree with you Gorman91, as it sounds like a form of enslavement and that's not fair to any human being. I really can't see making this type of scenario work nor would I want any part of it personally. I'm sure you realize the problems that already exist inregards to deportation. It's already a problem and costs the US, waaayyyy too much money. I think it's best to stop this now instead of compromising or hoping they'll do it "our way".

Now when it comes to humanitarian issues that's completely different altogether. But entering the US illegally and sucking the life out of a system that has been paid into before I was born by my generations grandparents (three of my grandparents were born in 1905 the other in 1899) is just not acceptable. I'm not buying what you're selling and I say that with respect.

Telling them to do what we say or else leave? They laugh at that and just come back in bigger numbers. We've already tried that and now we have a much larger issue.

Nope, no compromises, no money, no help...sorry, get legal and enjoy the ALL of the responsibilities that come with residing in this Nation. They have advocates in all of the major cities that will help them get legal...we can refer them to the poster Sparkitekt for advice, I'm sure he would be willing to help them
edit on 9/5/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


Well yes in theory it is slavery. But so is any form of imprisonment if you think breaking the law and having a punishment is.

Ah yes that makes me sound like a hypocrite I admit, but so be it. To me it's fair use of the situation. Deport them? Imprison them? Or use them? Well I favor using them.

And hell, if they do decide to leave and try to come back, so be it. Jail them. Because at that point, yes, they are slaves. Make them do work and earn their so-called entitlement to be here. Have mercy the first time, the second them, their rights are gone.
edit on 5-9-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by Sparkitekt
 




I've grown pretty tired of people like you on this site, where you need a url to substantiate what one says.

What Do You Mean, People Like Me? If you are bothered by me or other ATS'ers asking for a Link,,,,,, Then maybe You Should Find An-other Web-Site to Lurk Around, I hear GLP is looking for Members.
I keep hearing from other ATS Posters, That School is back in session.
This Thread Is Not About People Being Smuggled into America, It's About Children of Unrepentant illegals and our tax dollars. Furthering their education at the expense of tax payers or other funds seat aside to assist with tuition and books.
edit on 5-9-2011 by guohua because: spelling



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 10:47 PM
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Edited Double Post
edit on 5-9-2011 by guohua because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


Well yes in theory it is slavery. But so is any form of imprisonment if you think breaking the law and having a punishment is.

Ah yes that makes me sound like a hypocrite I admit, but so be it. To me it's fair use of the situation. Deport them? Imprison them? Or use them? Well I favor using them.

And hell, if they do decide to leave and try to come back, so be it. Jail them. Because at that point, yes, they are slaves. Make them do work and earn their so-called entitlement to be here. Have mercy the first time, the second them, their rights are gone.
edit on 5-9-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)


Now you remind me of my great uncle Bob. He was pretty hardcore. You know I respect your views, because I also know that you truly believe in what you say and I can't be mad at that. As usual you and I disagree. Yet again, I have learned something and I want to know how many others share your views.

I'm beginning to wonder if the rest of us are outnumbered by folks who share your views.

You are one hardcore man Mr. Gorman1



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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We need to bring our troops home now. Troops would take care of this stuff easily? You guys remember Operation Wetback under Eisenhower in the 1950s. Research it up.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


I wouldn't say hard core. Just simple. If a person continues to break your laws and sending them back isn't working, and paying for them here isn't working, then what else is there than to take the person, reinvent them, and make them a part of your own way?

Every enemy is an opportunity to have a more powerful ally.
edit on 5-9-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by Paulioetc15
We need to bring our troops home now. Troops would take care of this stuff easily? You guys remember Operation Wetback under Eisenhower in the 1950s. Research it up.


When I first read your comment, I was like WTF
I went and looked it up as you suggested and whoa, it was real folks. I get your point though


LINK
edit on 9/5/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


BTW mate, please replied to this thread. www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by Paulioetc15
We need to bring our troops home now. Troops would take care of this stuff easily? You guys remember Operation Wetback under Eisenhower in the 1950s. Research it up.


To Answer You Question in One Word. YES!
I just asked my husband who actually remembers this happening and he lived here in Globe Arizona at the time.

My husbands said he actually got a better paying job immediately after that and so did his father.
As far as rounding up illegals, My Home Country Does That All the Time, And You Really Don't Want To Know How illegals Are Treated There.

Now I have to Admit, I want our troops to come home too, BUT, That will not solve our problem. You need to Remember, This Administration will classify our troops as Terrorist and keep them either under close scrutiny or continually on Base Training, With Nothing To Train With, Because This Administration Will Give All Our Tax Dollars To illegals and Let Our Country Go To HE**.
Another thing you have to remember, This Administration Would Never Round Up and Deport Their New Voting Base,,,,, No They'll Round Them Up And Bus Them To The POLLS TO VOTE!

I'm Sorry OP, I did not want to derail your thread.
edit on 5-9-2011 by guohua because: spelling



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 11:53 PM
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For me, This is the Kicker as my husband says.
I understand that even though the California Dream Act gives illegal immigrants an Education, but because their immigration status will not change after graduating from college, they will remain unable to find legal employment.

Now correct me here if I'm Wrong, But how do you contribute back to the State of California or America if You can not work Legally and Pay Taxes, Legally.

Here are the States I found that bar illegal immigrants from in-state tuition benefits. Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, South Carolina and Indiana.
Now as my husband just said, Round Up The Employers and Put Them In Prison, Not Jail, But Prison and Let Their New Cell Buddy Show Them How The Showering System Works
( husband had to explain to me )
Employers of illegals should lose Every Thing! I Mean Every Thing!
edit on 5-9-2011 by guohua because: spelling



posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by guohua
For me, This is the Kicker as my husband says.
I understand that even though the California Dream Act gives illegal immigrants an Education, but because their immigration status will not change after graduating from college, they will remain unable to find legal employment.

Now correct me here if I'm Wrong, But how do you contribute back to the State of California or America if You can not work Legally and Pay Taxes, Legally.

Here are the States I found that bar illegal immigrants from in-state tuition benefits. Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, South Carolina and Indiana.
Now as my husband just said, Round Up The Employers and Put Them In Prison, Not Jail, But Prison and Let Their New Cell Buddy Show Them How The Showering System Works
( husband had to explain to me )
Employers of illegals should lose Every Thing! I Mean Every Thing!
edit on 5-9-2011 by guohua because: spelling


It figures Indiana would be on that list. Although I'm California born, I grew up in Indianapolis from 8 years old until I went off to college and they have some very very conservative views.



posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 12:13 AM
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HOW is it, that the country is BROKE in regards to benefits for TAXPAYERS, yet ILLEGAL folks who never paid a single CENT in taxes are likely to get... FREE BENEFITS???


WHAT IS GOING ON HERE IN THIS COUNTRY??????
edit on 6-9-2011 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


My Friend I think you'll wish you were back in Indianapolis after you read this story. You might even know about the California City.

Welcome to Maywood, Mexico



Boasting a population that is 97% Hispanic, more than half foreign born, and 40% illegal, the Los Angeles County, Calif., incorporated city of Maywood has achieved the Reconquista goal. It is now as lawless and chaotic as any place in Mexico. Maywood is a warning to every city and town in America.


Get That Wording There? Lawless and Chaotic!


The Maywood City Council announced this week that after years of radical policies, corruption and scandal, the city was broke and all city employees would be laid off and essential city services contracted out to neighboring cities or to L.A. County government.


They had to Close Their Police Department, But from what I've read, It was not Much of A Police Department.


Maywood was the first California city with an elected Hispanic City Council, one of the first "sanctuary" cities for illegal aliens, the first city to pass a resolution calling for a boycott of Arizona after that state passed a law to enforce federal immigration laws, the first California city to order its police department not to enforce state laws requiring drivers to have licenses to drive, the first American city to call on Congress to grant amnesty to all illegals.


OK, How do you get Car Insurance With Out A Drivers Licenses?


Council meetings were conducted in Spanish. Maywood was the leader in the peaceful, democratic achievement of the La Raza goal to take power in the U.S.

Source: www.wvwnews.net...
La Raza, That Organization is a Cancer.
I really hope this does not happen in your city of Pasadena.
edit on 6-9-2011 by guohua because: spelling



posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
HOW is it, that the country is BROKE in regards to benefits for TAXPAYERS, yet ILLEGAL folks who never paid a single CENT in taxes are likely to get... FREE BENEFITS???


WHAT IS GOING ON HERE IN THIS COUNTRY??????
edit on 6-9-2011 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)


I'm as confused as you are my friend. I just don't get it...on top of the problems we all face economically...I guess there are some out there who expect us to feel sorry for some "Crybaby Illegals" now demanding that we pay for their education.

Insanity at its best



posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by guohua
 


Yes, I'm aware of this city. I don't get this one either
Remember what was going on in the City of Bell? They were robbing their own people of their tax dollars
No, I wouldn't want to go back to Indianapolis, I couldn't stand that place then and my feelings haven't changed now. It's a state full of hypocritical politicians. My aunt worked at the state capital and after what they tried to do to her (whole other story) I just threw my hands up like Wow. Luckily after suing the state she was able to keep her job and is now retired. It was in regards to her health care and the fact she got cancer and almost died. The state cancelled her insurance saying it was costing them too much. She was a state employee for crying out loud!

Here's the guy who is keeping this going and what he had to say pushing Assemblyman Gil Cedillo's plan on the floor. A snippet from a statement he made:


Sen. Ron Calderon (D-Montebello) said the state should not stand in the way of students who graduate from high school in California with grades good enough to get into college. "It’s about supporting those who work hard, play by the rules and want to improve their standard of living," Calderon said during a floor debate before the 26-11 party-line vote. "Their accomplishment should not be disregarded or their future jeopardized because of their legal status."[


Here's the rest of the LINK

I find it ironic he had the nerve to mention "Who Play By The Rules". I guess he was referring to their own set of rules and not those of the state of California, let alone the rules set forth by the USA on a federal level. We better all start taking some No Doze and Wake Up!





edit on 9/6/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: still can't get my spelling right, I give up






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