Should Holocaust revision (NOT denial) be taken more seriously?

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posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by m1991
 





yet we are free to forget the Native American genocide


'And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!'

i'm from the uk - when i was a kid i thought the last line of 'the star-spangled banner' was a reference to native americans - that was before i read 'bury my heart at wounded knee'.




posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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I feel confident the 6 million number was pumped up to help garner support for a Jewish state. The subject had come up many times before WW2 but there was little support for it even from the Jewish community.
We know that Israel was created as a proxy state to defend Western oil interests in the Middle East. That's why we allow them to get away with the atrocities they have committed against the Palestinians and Lebanese people.
They do our dirty work for us. There's certainly no other reason half our Congress would be over there "visiting".

Cheers.
ATA



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by dantanna
 



look, growing up, all i learned, from like 1st grade on, was how the sacred six million died. no one told me about the 30 million russinas, no one told me about the 25 million chinese, and millions of gypsies, italians, irish, etc. all you hear about is the precious chozen.

This alone speaks volumes.

Should Holocaust(TM) revisionism be taken more seriously? Yes, absolutely. But as you all know, any criticism of Jews is just not tolerated; after all, Jews literally run the world.......



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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When I first started on my personal quest to understand WW2 I unfortunately stumbled upon things that i had wished i had not. I am now a firm believer that this war was fought for the wrong reasons and the truth has never been brought to the light of day. Jewish Communism is alive and well and thriving in the United States like never before, the path to hell is often paved with good intentions, if communism would have been eradicated this world would have been a lot better off. The truth needs to be told about what really happened, the fact that the allies bombed the supply lines to the camps, this made it damn near impossible to supply and feed these people.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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Ha ha. If last replies are not an attempt by ADL/JDL/trolls to side track your thread i hope that you understand why this issue is a bit ,ehhhm, touchy. No one claims that Russians ,Poles, Gypsies ,mentally ill or Gays were parasites and deserved what happened to them.
edit on 27-8-2011 by ZeroKnowledge because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by ALF88
 



it is the "Holy Grail" of Zionism and method of enslaving


An unfortunate turn of phrase that. Look up who was behind the slave trade and the fact that of about 110,000,000 slaves taken only roughly 10% made it to the destination.

Then look at the name of one of the large slave traders and see who is controlling today through agriculture and GM.

reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


Sorry I got to your post after I had written this.
edit on 27/8/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 05:51 PM
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Also, what is up with all the holocaust movies? Seems like a huge percent of them have some holocaust theme in them.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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The US has always had this strange interest in supporting the Jewish victim complex and of course Israel or American Jews also promoting this complex and I've never understood why. Sure the Holocaust was horrible and lots of people died but you hear more Jews pointing the Holocaust out than any other group of people who were equally discriminated against by the Nazis. Why is this?



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by dantanna
 


''do i think they were considered second class citizens, denied proper food, shelter, and medication, which probably killed a bunch of them? yes.''

He didn't let them starve and he had hospitals for them as well....if anything,it was the allies bombing the cargo trains full of food that denied the Jews what they needed.

Oh and Hitler wasn't an NWO goon.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 06:48 PM
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Wow. No offense is intended here, but I'm rather shocked by the general discussion on this topic. Are the records for the Holocaust 100% accurate? Of course not. Mass Graves were scattered here and there all over the place, particularly on the Russian front of the war. I doubt those situations ever came close to an accounting.

However, what happened in the camps isn't guess work or propaganda. The Germans were absolutely meticulous and fanatic about record keeping. I believe it's the first war in our history where the losers actually supplied almost ALL of the evidence used to hold them accountable afterward.

Those brought to trial at Nuremberg never outright disputed the scope and general facts of what happened, just their roles or lack of accountability. It's hard to argue the written pages from German Officers not only counting kills, but the net values for each body.

THEIR records and UNDISPUTED by THEIR OWN Officers during trials for their very lives. If ever there was a time to spill some big truth, that was it, as some knew very well they'd never breathe free air again either way.

It's ironic that we know from records on the Allied side, our 'High Command' discussed this very problem. How to document a horror at such an unthinkable level, future generations wouldn't believe it even happened. They actually realized it at the time. As I understand from reading over the years, that was the reason videos of the camps weren't just home movies but official Allied records and approached in a careful way to document it.

Sure the Jews have played it for all they could in the decades since and yes, millions of Non-Jews were systematically exterminated in the camps as well. I don't like that those facts are almost forgotten but how Jews and Israel have chosen to exploit what happened during the war doesn't change the events themselves. Even Germany as a nation, to this day, admits to what happened and doesn't dispute the fundamental facts.....unlike some others I could name (Japan...ahem...cough...).

One final thing on this... What difference does it REALLY make if it was 2 million, 6 million or more? Mao counted 10's of millions and so did Stalin. After it hits the million mark for a number, it's kinda meaningless isn't it? The Horror is already at the maximum level and all that comes after is statistics for the historical record. How can anyone grade the level of BAD beyond that point? Oh well....

I suppose my thoughts on this make me no friends but someone had to stand up on this and represent the other side of the topic. I'll hop in my hole now and take cover.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Wow. No offense is intended here, but I'm rather shocked by the general discussion on this topic. Are the records for the Holocaust 100% accurate? Of course not. Mass Graves were scattered here and there all over the place, particularly on the Russian front of the war. I doubt those situations ever came close to an accounting.

However, what happened in the camps isn't guess work or propaganda. The Germans were absolutely meticulous and fanatic about record keeping. I believe it's the first war in our history where the losers actually supplied almost ALL of the evidence used to hold them accountable afterward.

Those brought to trial at Nuremberg never outright disputed the scope and general facts of what happened, just their roles or lack of accountability. It's hard to argue the written pages from German Officers not only counting kills, but the net values for each body.

THEIR records and UNDISPUTED by THEIR OWN Officers during trials for their very lives. If ever there was a time to spill some big truth, that was it, as some knew very well they'd never breathe free air again either way.

It's ironic that we know from records on the Allied side, our 'High Command' discussed this very problem. How to document a horror at such an unthinkable level, future generations wouldn't believe it even happened. They actually realized it at the time. As I understand from reading over the years, that was the reason videos of the camps weren't just home movies but official Allied records and approached in a careful way to document it.

Sure the Jews have played it for all they could in the decades since and yes, millions of Non-Jews were systematically exterminated in the camps as well. I don't like that those facts are almost forgotten but how Jews and Israel have chosen to exploit what happened during the war doesn't change the events themselves. Even Germany as a nation, to this day, admits to what happened and doesn't dispute the fundamental facts.....unlike some others I could name (Japan...ahem...cough...).

One final thing on this... What difference does it REALLY make if it was 2 million, 6 million or more? Mao counted 10's of millions and so did Stalin. After it hits the million mark for a number, it's kinda meaningless isn't it? The Horror is already at the maximum level and all that comes after is statistics for the historical record. How can anyone grade the level of BAD beyond that point? Oh well....

I suppose my thoughts on this make me no friends but someone had to stand up on this and represent the other side of the topic. I'll hop in my hole now and take cover.


Nah, I respect your opinion of course. I want to question some of your points though.

First of all, do any of these records exist, Nazi records of exterminating Jews? If so, how many, and are they translated correctly? Also, remember the part of the Nuremberg trials devoted to the Holocaust was rather short. Plus, I imagine no matter what they admitted, they would have likely been executed anyway.

Second, the reason Germany is apologetic and Japan isn't is because modern Germany is not the same state as the Germany of Weimar and the Third Reich. Being apologetic was part of the war reparations Germany paid as a conquered nation.

I agree with you that genocide is genocide and really 1 million is in principle as horrific as 6 million or 1 billion. However, if only 1 million or 3 million Jewish people died in the camps, it makes the suffering of Jews look less especially horrible relative to the suffering of Poles, Gypsies, and the like. I think the concept of Jewish people as victims is like I said, propaganda to justify Allied acts in WW2, and is also a way of justifying the current Middle East wars.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 09:23 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by gwydionblack
I think all history should be questioned and studied regardless of how 'taboo' it is in certain cultures - Holocaust included.

But this is a subject that will NEVER, ever be considered or questioned quite simply because as someone pointed out - the winners write the history.


I couldn't agree more with you.

The hardest part of seeking the truth is learning that there is no universal truth and that no matter how hard you try, you're always searching through dark, murky waters.

As time passes, truth is often the very first casualty.

To deny the holocaust happened is ridiculous when you have such evidence as Auschwitz or the diary of Anne Frank. However, I certainly do believe that those who write the history down portray themselves in a much better light than their opponents.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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The Jewish Holocaust is fact.
The question could be asked ...were Jewish Soviet/Polish ect POWS and war dead who were ebgaged in war against Germany numbered in the tally of victims?

Almost three mililon POWS died in german camps after all.

Second who talks about the German Civilian Holocaust?

The millions of women bashed and raped to death?

Conservative historians estimate approx 3 to ten million ethnic germans in Germany and Poland are unaccounted for ?

One in ten german women were raped by Soviet forces.

How many movies do we see aboout the missing Germans?

This does not reduce the horrific wrongs perpertrated against the Jewish in the camps.

Just horror and ma murder shouldn't be whitewashed , no matter if they were the enemy?



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by DieBravely
 

The diary of Anne Frank. You consider that proof.

Wow.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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To be honest, I always have wondered why the focus is always on the Jews. The Holocaust was so much worse than portrayed with just the Jewish count.

By the time you add in the Romani (Gypsy), Ethnic Slavs, homosexuals, the disabled, political dissidents, etc, you're looking at closer to ten million and probably even more than that.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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come on, everyone knows the diary of anne frank is 'real!'
it is as real as the 'ball point pen' she 'wrote' the diary with!



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by m1991
there was a Zionist, likely both with Christian and Jewish elements, plan to support the Holocaust in order to fulfill Biblical prophecy. Without the Holocaust there is no way Israel would have ever had enough Jewish settlers to become a new Israel.


Sir, what i quoted should be discussed extensively.
I'd like readers to read my whole post before commenting. You need to understand two levels of problem, before making shallow opinion about my post.

I cannot get rid of this thought since i realized POINT of Jewish prophecies.

Now, i dare to ask: can we...realize, that Hitler might've been ...their...Messiah?
Then, i am asking(rhetorical):
didn't it..work?
Now, let me say this again: READ my post as a whole.

Notice: this is absolutely NOT related to nazi ideology or whatever, i mean, that human world operates on human level(so we had war, and Holocaust, and hate, etcetc), but by extrapolation, or just imagination we can consider different approach to this:
separate human level, let's say that human level is just what we all know, and what couldn't be accepted, but now - what happened(not Hitler himself, but JUST PERSON) was tool for their prophecy - let me be clear here - i am not saying, that Hitler was aware about this, he was just doing his war, BUT now, if you can agree with my general thought...
let's go further:

What, if he was conscious what and why he was REALLY doing besides WWII?
You know, there's talk about Hitler's jewish roots that we can hear sometimes, now - just imagine, what if people that saying, that he just hated Jews, so he made Holocaust, are wrong?

Look, he must knew prophecy, and he was educated in a prussian way(order, regularity, "BLOOD/NATION").
Prophecy + disorganized no-land nation(jews) could make his moves subconsciously tending to what exactly happened as whole.
What's interesting, if we can agree: it would EXPLAIN Hitler's whole absurdity of his overall steps, he had "comfort" of being inhuman while realising God plan knowing that "colatteral damage" WILL RESULT in eternally REJOINED Jewish nation. Rejoined by things that our generations, and world automatically refuse to...deny.

Share your thoughts, i hope that my engrish did not darken my thought, and i am properly understood.
----

small "normal" addendum to my post:

i think, that there's small problem now - while we all are operating on human level of taking things, i can clearly see today's Israel problem - they are turned into nation of martyrs by their gvmt, schools etc etc.
MORE - it seems like they "borrowed" some of nazi ideology - now, it looks like they turned into aggressors(since 1968).
I cannot understand why whole western world cannot see dramatic situation of ex-FREE Palestine.
What's wrong with our governments, why nobody stop this now?

--------------------
and btw: why CNN ALWAYS name german concentration camps as " POLISH concentration camps"?
As a Pole I will never ever allow to use this term by anyone.
Who decides that such term will be used?
Try to realize something - my countrymen, many of them died trying to HELP these people, and now, when they got their country we are shown as nazi helpers?
edit on 27-8-2011 by potential_problem because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:00 PM
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Hate is hate. I was married to a Polish Jew. My daughter commented to me about how most of her friends have large families, and she had just her mother's parents and my side of the family. I then reminded her that she had Hitler to thank for her small family.

A lot of people were responsible for what happened in the death camps. America refused to allow Jews to leave ships which had come here for refuge; they were sent back where the Jews were arrested. The mentally ill, and others as has been mentioned suffered in the camps along side the Jews. Armenians will be quick to tell you about the Turks committing genocide.

Hitler was backed by the Catholic Church. Prior to WWII, there were plenty of outspoken Nazis and pro-Nazis like Henry Ford. Once the war broke out it wasn't so popular to speak out in support of Hitler in America.

You could spend a great deal of time and money tracking down all the people connected to the death camps. There are a lot of the original Nazi supporters doing fine in corporate America.





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