Should Holocaust revision (NOT denial) be taken more seriously?

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posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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I'm not talking people who deny the Holocaust happened - that's as silly as the "no plane" 9/11 theory. What I'm talking about is questioning whether our understanding of the Holocaust is truly accurate or the full story.

There's lots of reasons imo to look deeper into the Holocaust. While I definitely think it was a real event, I also think the way it is presented has much to do with our support for Israel. Children are taught starting in second grade or so about the Holocaust, yet are never really taught about any other similar genocides. The focus is ALWAYS on the Jewish victims as well, you never learn about anything other than token recognition of the Gypsies and mentally ill and other groups that were killed. Also you never hear about Allied atrocities such as the Gulags in the Soviet Union or the bombing of Dresden.

While I do accept that the Nazis had committed genocide and that the Jews were one of the main groups they targeted, there are two major things that I question - the number of Jewish deaths, and whether there was a Zionist or NWO element behind the Holocaust.

One reason I'm skeptical of the 6 million number is because religious stats are very unreliable. Because there are many people who may or may not be Jewish, such as Black Hebrews and people with Jewish fathers but not mothers who aren't baptised, it's impossible to give a clear figure of how many Jewish people are in any one place. Also you have to consider the possibility that many of the Jews the Nazis killed were actually Christians and were falsely accused of being Jewish.

I would say the actual number of Jews Hitler killed could in theory range from maybe 2 million to a maximum of 6 1/2 million though probably somewhere between 2-5 million. Which is still a lot of course, but if it was 2 million it would make the Jewish suffering seem less especially horrid compared to other groups and I think the 6 million estimate is used because something about the number six million sounds especially substantial.

I also think it's very possible there was a Zionist, likely both with Christian and Jewish elements, plan to support the Holocaust in order to fulfill Biblical prophecy. Without the Holocaust there is no way Israel would have ever had enough Jewish settlers to become a new Israel. The reason for that being most Jews had lived in Europe so long they considered it their home and it was just a much nicer place to live until the Nazis came around than arid Israel. When you consider that the Nazis were elected because of the Great Depression, which the NWO created, it makes sense that ultimately the NWO likely planned the Holocaust as well and simply used Hitler and the Nazis as their vessel for their plan.

I think Holocaust denial is absurd, but I think re-thinking some of the narratives we have been taught, and seeing how it fits into the greater scheme of the Powers that Be, is very logical and really does need to be taken seriously. How do we know there wasn't more behind the Holocaust, ultimately, than the Nazis? And why are we taught so much about the Jewish Holocaust, but hear nothing about Armenia, the Gulags, or even the Gypsy victims of the Holocaust? Is it merely propaganda so that we support Israel?

Remember that history is always written by the victors and that the Holocaust narrative we are taught is used to reinforce how the Allies were the "good guys" when really both sides of the war were equally horrible and guilty of war crimes. The Holocaust is also used in a way to justify our current Middle East wars because it gives an idea of Israelis being victims and that since we share Israel's enemy (the Muslims) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are justified in the same way WW2 was. Essentially imo the Holocaust is used as a spearhead for supporting the American war machine and THAT is why we are beaten over the head with it when America usually overlooks genocide in the history books and in the present.
edit on 27-8-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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Yes the figures are wrong, but good luck, this is Zionisms main propaganda weapon and they never hesitate to use it. I am sure that this will get locked out by ATS soon, they don't like these kinds of topics.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by discharged77
Yes the figures are wrong, but good luck, this is Zionisms main propaganda weapon and they never hesitate to use it. I am sure that this will get locked out by ATS soon, they don't like these kinds of topics.


I hope they leave it open, did ANYTHING I say sound even remotely hateful?

I think what angers me is how the Holocaust is considered 'special', like somehow it's seen as being way worse than every other genocide just because it happened to Jewish people. Honestly I think a lot of the Holocaust denial is really just based on anger over this, I don't think very many people actually deny the Holocaust happened. I just think it's hypocritical that we are supposed to 'never forget' the Holocaust yet we are free to forget the Native American genocide, Pol Pot, the Gulags, Ukraine famine, Sberenica, the Soviet genocide of ethnic Germans, the genocide of the Australian Aborigines, the rape of Nanking, and just about every other genocide.
edit on 27-8-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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4 words:
Winners write the History.

The same way Hitler was deemed as a force trully evil in America, more evil than a certain guy who ordered nukes to be dropped on Japan, the U.S. and Soviet Union were considered evil in Germany.

Once the Allied Powers won, they set up the nations of Israel. I think that the war was planned for two reasons:
1.) Oil
2.) Close proximity to the Soviet Union.

I think the holocaust numbers are exaggerated by atleast a million.


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posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by DoctorSatan
4 words:
Winners write the History.

The same way Hitler was deemed as a force trully evil in America, more evil than a certain guy who ordered nukes to be dropped on Japan, the U.S. and Soviet Union were considered evil in Germany.

Once the Allied Powers won, they set up the nations of Israel. I think that the war was planned for two reasons:
1.) Oil
2.) Close proximity to the Soviet Union.

I think the holocaust numbers are exaggerated by atleast a million.


This whole 'never forget' thing just makes me so infuriated. We 'borrowed' the term for 9/11, supposedly, we are supposed to remember that 3,000 Americans died in 2001 for all eternity and rip our hair out in grief every September 11, yet are also supposed to consider millions of dead Middle Easterners killed in our wars collateral damage not worth crying about.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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It's not really hard to find more information on how many people were taken during the Holocaust.

From everything I have read, they used reconstructed population demographics of areas that Hitler fell upon, and in collaboration with records kept by the Nazis that were not destroyed after WWII, were able to come up with a round-about estimate of how many people (Jewish or otherwise) were killed by the Nazi genocide.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by m1991

Remember that history is always written by the victors and that the Holocaust narrative we are taught is used to reinforce how the Allies were the "good guys" when really both sides of the war were equally horrible and guilty of war crimes. The Holocaust is also used in a way to justify our current Middle East wars because it gives an idea of Israelis being victims and that since we share Israel's enemy (the Muslims) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are justified in the same way WW2 was. Essentially imo the Holocaust is used as a spearhead for supporting the American war machine and THAT is why we are beaten over the head with it when America usually overlooks genocide in the history books and in the present.
edit on 27-8-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)


This is definately one of the better holocaust threads, and I agree that people who think the holocaust didn't happen at all have a few screws loose. In my opinion, I just don't believe the holocaust word for word because of the US track record. (golf of tonkin incident, operation northwoods) The last paragraph of your post also summed things up well.
S&F my friend



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by m1991
 


As a historian who tends to look closely at the holocaust, I couldn't agree more that it needs to have independent researchers given access to study it a LOT closer. IT seems, in a lot of ways, that EVERY other aspect of history can frequently be questioned, and opinions and theories changed in keeping with new information. Not so with the Holocaust. Show a bit of evidence that the vaunted six million dead isn't accurate, and suddenly you are an anti-semite nazi.

An interesting site to look at for a differing but mostly scholarly opinion on the matter can be found at www.codoh.com

Some of the articles are your typical "nothing happened, the Nazi's were great guys" nonsense. Others however, are very well written and quite informative.

Happy hunting!



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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I think all history should be questioned and studied regardless of how 'taboo' it is in certain cultures - Holocaust included.

I am personally of the belief that genocide was not the initial goal of the Nazis, but simply a last resort after war and mass food shortages struck Germany deep into the war. There is evidence out there that suggests that "work camps" were not the slave labor camps as history paints, but small towns or communes with various necessities and pleasantries provided, including a system of currency for the workers... that is, up until Germany was on the defensive.

No doubt do I believe it was all inherently wrong (good luck trying to get the across to closed minded people), from the work camps in the first place, all the way to the forced genocide, but I also understand that war is a nasty business and if history would prove that the genocide occurred because of allied forces cutting off the supply lines, one could argue the stance of them all being "heroes" of the war... and it might hinder the pristine look of the allied forces in WWII.

But this is a subject that will NEVER, ever be considered or questioned quite simply because as someone pointed out - the winners write the history.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by m1991
I'm not talking people who deny the Holocaust happened - that's as silly as the "no plane" 9/11 theory. What I'm talking about is questioning whether our understanding of the Holocaust is truly accurate or the full story.


I am sorry but to compare holocaust deniers and people who think there were no planes on 9/11 is outrages and wrong. Actually it is an insult.

Regarding the Holocaust:

Yes, I think there should be a revision. It is legal almost everywhere, even in Germany, to debate the numbers, not the Holocaust itself though. I think we might be surprised one day about what really happened during 1933 and 1945. As someone said before me. Good luck with it as it is the "Holy Grail" of Zionism and method of enslaving and keeping people in fear and guilt.
edit on 27-8-2011 by ALF88 because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-8-2011 by ALF88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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The reason the media gets so up in arms if anyone mentions this topic is because of one simple fact...The MSM is Jew owned and operated...I would say more but i am just going to keep my mouth shut, this topic gets my blood boiling.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by m1991
 

There is definately something not quite right with the official version of these events,remember in 1944 immediately prior to the battle of the bulge,many American fighting men were beginning to question exactly what they were fighting for and voila! British forces stumble upon Bergen Belsen,the soviets "liberate" Auschwitz Birkenau etc etc,guaranteed to silence the questioners?



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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I find it funny that usually the "christians" who support Israel are usually the ones who discount these types of theories.....while at the same time trying to downplay the amount of blacks killed during slavery, or the amount of native peoples genocided here in the Americas.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Fryaga
It's not really hard to find more information on how many people were taken during the Holocaust.

From everything I have read, they used reconstructed population demographics of areas that Hitler fell upon, and in collaboration with records kept by the Nazis that were not destroyed after WWII, were able to come up with a round-about estimate of how many people (Jewish or otherwise) were killed by the Nazi genocide.


I imagine they are able to come up with fairly decent figures of the total deaths, however, like I said, religious censuses are very fickle, though since Jews are an ethnicity as well, it might be SOMEWHAT easier to count how many Jewish people are in a community compared to how many Christians.
edit on 27-8-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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i think hitlar, being the son of a rottschild, was a scumbag hellbent on world conquest. usually people in those positions of power are sociopaths to begin with.

do i think he rounded up people and put them in camps, like the americans did with american japanese people? yes.

do i think they were considered second class citizens, denied proper food, shelter, and medication, which probably killed a bunch of them? yes.


do i think they mysteriously 'cooked' and put into mass graves? no. if you watch any video on the spooky 'death camps' you will nazi generals living next door to the poison chambers? you will see signs that say 'replica' of those scary 'ovens.'

look, growing up, all i learned, from like 1st grade on, was how the sacred six million died. no one told me about the 30 million russinas, no one told me about the 25 million chinese, and millions of gypsies, italians, irish, etc. all you hear about is the precious chozen.

then my brother tells me, 'izreal is ok, they deserve it after what happened in w2.' my brother is pretty smart, and the fact he is so hypnotized by xionism, proves they did their job proper.

let us look at the FACT you can go to jail, to JAIL for questioning the precious six million number in germany, australia, and canada amongst other countries. to go to JAIL for asking questions?

what do 'they' have to 'hide' if i can go to jail for questions.

anytime 'they' tell me i can go to jail for asking a question, i ask the damn questions! ha. that PROVES something is amiss.

i read the pr0t0cols of xion, just because they said it was wrong to do so. it is an eye opener. you could be shot for owning that book in the early part of the 1900's. again, any book you could get killed over, is worth reading.

i want peace, liberty, and equality for EVERY person on earth, regardelss of race, creed, or color. it is a shame, 'they' want to rule above all else with ethnocentrism, racism, and aparthide.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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While I do accept that the Nazis had committed genocide and that the Jews were one of the main groups they targeted, there are two major things that I question - the number of Jewish deaths, and whether there was a Zionist or NWO element behind the Holocaust.

And why it cannot be done? I mean - there is no legal reason and while i am sure that it will not be accepted with the best of intentions, if it is serious research then there is no reason for it not to happen.
6 million Jews killed is not an axiom, there are researchers who say it was about 5 million and there those who say that there was about 7 million. So there are researchers dealing with it and nobody shoots down "lesser number" theories straight away.
And Zionist - Nazi connections in 1930s-1940s are also not a taboo. There are works on this (Haavara and Hungarian Jews and such).
So - what it the problem?



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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The information we receive is always what they want us to remember or know.I ran into an interesting thing when looking into Alexander Graham Bell he was one of the members of American Breeders Association who instigated eugenics to make the human population better, it spread to the rest of the world and the idea was later taken up by Hitler. All the major nations were practicing eugenics by then and sterilizing thousands "All in all, 60,000 Americans were sterilized." California proudly did the most.
The Immigration Restriction League (founded in 1894) was the first American entity associated officially with eugenics. The League sought to bar what it considered dysgenic members of certain races from entering America and diluting what it saw as the superior American racial stock through procreation. They passed a law where immigrants had to pass a written test impossible for them if they did not know the language...I am sure it was waved for the desirable s.
The Department of Eugenics is still there renamed as a gov lab. People were experimented on to learn what causes the mental and physical flaws. Probably still are.
en.wikipedia.org... (there are a ton of great sources to read that lead to more and more mind boggling stuff)
If you follow the papers on it there are so many weird and interesting things, but it shows that the whole world was doing what Hitler took up but their way would be to encourage or force undesirable traits to not be bred and to encourage the smart and healthy to breed with incentive's like free college and homes and health care.

When Nazi administrators went on trial for war crimes in Nuremberg after World War II, they justified the mass sterilizations (over 450,000 in less than a decade) by citing the United States as their inspiration.[66] The Nazis had claimed American eugenicists inspired and supported Hitler's racial purification laws, and failed to understand the connection between those policies and the eventual genocide of the Holocaust.[80]


I cannot really figure out the Jew part of the thinking but it seems that at some point ever nation had a problem with Jewish populating. It seems the Germans decided to make the human population better faster and their idea of better was more defined...white. blue. eyed .intelligent .healthy. only. The more you actually kill the faster human population would improve the United Kingdom and American and Swedish and the rest were going to just stop the breeding of the undesirables and wait a few generations.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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Of course its not accurate, more non jews than jews were killed but every time its mentioned how many died, it refers only to the jews.

Its done because they like to play the poor persecuted race when in fact they are currently the ones doing the persecution in the middle east.

They will also throw the "anti semite" card at every opportunity to but that refers to the whole middle east so you cant be an anti semite if you want Israel returned to the Palestinians.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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What else is new about our warped history? The official story of every major event in history seems distorted.

A few examples:

The Holocaust,
Kennedy assassination,
9/11,
Oklahoma city bombing,
Vietnam,
The Reichstag Fire,
WMD's
etc. it goes on and on and on.

We are constantly being lied to. We are controlled via our masses. There are more sleeping sheep than awaken ones. The only way to turn this around is to awaken more sheep.

Question everything.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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This is such a nice thread...

But I've already been banned in ats for "holocaust revision", since I'm an historian that really has interest in this issue and even my thesis was based on this - oh actually the first one was, not the second... had to do a second because the first one was rejected and I was pretty much threatened not to publish a thesis like that - ever - if I wanted to be taken seriously and have a "career".

Since both in my real life, as in ATS I had "issues" with this subject, I wont bite the carrot this time.

But nice thread - I study it thoroughly, I've even been there, visited the places, took pictures, talked to people about it, from survivors to germans, even specialists in construction materials about rate of degradation, breaking temperatures, rate of substitution of such materials, specialists in fire damage and combustion, and even doctors about resistance of a human body, composition and degradation and I've done all the math a human being can possibly do... and... and those figures or "numbers" are way off from reality, ... and thats all I say these days.


Nice thread - s&f





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