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Well, when you use another group as your arch-satan, then i think its important to know what that other group ACTUALLY believes.
History records that English philosopher Henry More first used the new term in 1669, describing Catholicism as “a spice of the old abhorred Gnosticism.” Interestingly, More lived during the Enlightenment, a period that gave rise to a renewed interest in and study of the Gnostics.
www.vision.org...
Imagine how incredibly annoying it is for someone who actually understands biblical exegesis, to here a pseudo-gnostic or occultist preach "the jewish God is a deluded archon".
If he were courageous enough to test his own arbitary beliefs and philosophy, he could probably come to a different perception.
Idolatry, which the bible admonishes man not to do, means just this. Dont worship your own beliefs; your own assumptions. Free yourself from their burden. Look, and see what else exists.
"With justice and an abundance of kindness, He does not deal harshly." G-d does not withhold reward from gentiles who perform His commandments."
"Righteous gentiles have a place in the world to come"
Judaism says, if you live a righteous life, if youre a good person, you build for yourself a heavenly afterlife. Thats basic logic, and thats what Judaism has always taught.
But than again, the concept of the demiurge has such negative tinges to it, that i wouldnt want to attach any name of G-d to that concept.
Whereas conversely, i find Gnosticism good in some areas, but in other areas, not so good.
Im particularly interested in Zen Buddhism and am currently practicing it. I also got an interest in Hinduism, Sufism, and ancient Mythology - Babylonian, Egyptian, Druidic, aswell as Jungian psychology, comparitive mythology. Im all around fascinated by the metaphysical side of things; in religion, and its inner meaning and purpose.
This also crosses over with my exoteric studies; politics. I see how this gnostic spirit has animated not only ancient secret socieites, but also the campaigns of the Romans, its renaming of Judea, "palestine", after the Hebrews biblical nemesis, the philistines, and later on the Catholic Church.
We live in corrupt times, and the corrupt gnostics are still in control, despite their efforts to frame the Jew as the culprit.
The world is a vampire,
sent to drain
Secret destroyers,
hold you up to the flames
And what do I get, for my pain?
Betrayed desires, and a piece of the game
Even though I know - I suppose I'll show
All my cool and cold - like old job
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Then someone will say what is lost can never be saved
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Billy Corgan, "Bullet With Butterfly Wings"
These Jews are most likely descendants of Sabbateans and Frankists, a current within "judaism", but it couldnt be farther from Judaism. Ideologically, Catholicism has a GREAT deal more in common with Judaism than Sabbateanism, or even Reform Judaism.
I should really write a book on this, and yet im sure it would never get published.
These days it seems to me that 'Gnosis' and Gnosis of Gnosticism comes through personal revelation and it surfaces in interesting ways in popular culture, society and media. It is like a current of information that travels with us through time. We are talking about it now.
Originally posted by dontreally
Heres something to make you think.
Given the mysteries, and esoteric basis of all religions, why does the Catholic Church, as admitted at the Vaticans own website, have a 4000 year old Obelisk from Heliopolis Egypt, standing in the middle of St Peters Basillica??? What could this possibly symbolize?
The collection of Obelisks in Rome is the finest now remaining anywhere, even in Egypt itself there is no place where twelve Obelisks are collected, and some of them are remarkably perfect, so that the hieroglyphics can be read by those who understand the language.
www.archive.org...
No offense but do you know how annoying people are, generally, who claim to know anything about Biblical exegesis?
I get that what these so called Gnostics said does not jibe somehow with the way Biblical exegesis explains itself to you but isn't that really just a matter of changing filters? It is for me.
Is there something in "Gnosticism' or something you have read about Gnosticism that would cause you to believe that these people worshiped their own beliefs?
As an aside: This is the sort of thing that really gets my fight up. It really pisses me off. I don't need to have reward doled out to me by some Alien God because I am a 'Gentile. My Lord doesn't buy in to the sh!? either which is why I worship Him. And that is probably why He brought a New commandment that supersedes all the rest.
Great. But how does that jibe with salvation only coming by the Grace of God?
See why this gets confusing OP? Red Pill or Blue Pill?
Respectfully, OP, you seem to be all about logic and sense when it comes to what has been revealed to you by Biblical exegesis but suddenly you let your emotions reign when it comes to the demiurge because it seems negative and 'icky'.
How did you find the parts that are good? What are they? I ask because I am curious about how you made sense of this considering the fragmentary nature of historical texts that are considered 'Gnostic'. If you are talking about modern Gnostics like theses guys...
We are Brothers from another Mother. Where are you sitting at? Do you go to a local Zendo?
Are you saying biblical exgesis doesnt exist? or that its partial? any person can read into it whatever he wants?
Ancient Rabbinic figures allude to this metaphysical substratum of the Torah, but of course, its never ever spoken of explicitly, but through parable. So even when they make mention to the inner metaphysics of the Torah, they do so in a metaphysical manner!
Believe what you will. I know what i know, and likewise any Jew who has studied Judaism at an esoteric level knows; and guess what? He would never talk about it with you, the way i do.
The mysteries of the Torah are for Jews, and righteous gentiles. Basically, only those people who can be trusted, are initiated into this wisdom.
No, it isnt. I have no idea how you have come to that conclusion. I have my beliefs. How do you think a Hindu would react to my forceable interpretation of the Bhagavad Gita according to my belief system??
if a gnostic is going to use the name of God, YHVH, or Elohim, from the Torah, and insist, as many amateur mystics do, that this God was a demiurge, which has its own platonic definition, than in this context, it is complete idolatry to refuse to study the proper metaphysics as traditionally taught.
If youre interested in that, there are many people in which you could turn.
What about it bothers you??? By reward, is simply meant, a causitive response from reality. You do good, and good will come your way. You do evil, and evil will come your way. Like attracts like. This is how the creator established the world. An effect is always similar in some way to its cause.
You made your "this world is a meaningless mistake, an abortion of the pleroma" nonsense. Do you see how this is a basic assumption of yours? Its really no different from mine. I just prefer to be optimistic about the world.
You are talking unnecessarly existential. Im referring to the basic gnostic desire to transcend the limitations of this lower world. This is a good desire. Whats negative, in my opinion, is the theology that evolves from this basic awareness.
Zen has really helped me clarify some issues i have been dealing with for years. Practically speaking, Zen Buddhism is a tremendously useful spiritual science, or art.