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Originally posted by dn4cer2000
reply to post by dontreally
The God that Jesus spoke of is not Yahweh. Jesus' "God" loves unconditionally. Yahweh is a warmonger, jealous, temperamental "god" that destroyed cities full of men, women and children AND accepted human sacrifice.
Originally posted by blazenresearcher
...with all the different cultures having a different name for the exact same made up character....
Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by NorEaster
I think that may be close, but likely no cigar.
Why? Because it's becoming ever more clear that Jesus the man, was both a student of gnosis according to the ancient wisdom teachings, passed down in this case by a mystical Judaism (is there any other kind?), as well as the master, with a double dose of spirit, John the Baptist being his initiator, if not the reincarnation, of Elijah.
More on Elija (I think this is worth investigating)
edit on 27-8-2011 by NewAgeMan because: forgot the H in Elijah, info link added.
Sabbateans (Sabbatians) is a complex general term that refers to a variety of followers of, disciples and believers in Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676), a Jewish rabbi who was proclaimed to be the Jewish Messiah in 1665 by Nathan of Gaza.
(Ed: Nathan of Gaza? Is this a Monty Python script?)
Vast numbers of Jews in the Jewish diaspora accepted his claims, even after he became a Jewish apostate with his conversion to Islam in 1666. Sabbatai Zevi's followers, both during his "Messiahship" and after his conversion to Islam, are known as Sabbateans. They can be grouped into three: "Maaminim" (believers), "Haberim" (associates), and "Ba'ale Milhamah" (warriors).
I know Bill Heidrick, a gnostic, has his own gematria index at his site billheidrick.com, and he probably interprets it the way Crowley does.
Whereas a gnostic would probably bend over backwards trying to explain this language as the "programming of the demiurge".
In OP introducing condescending and irrelevant pop-psychology evaluations on the motives of gnosticism.
Regarding a historical backtracking of gnosticism as more relevant than it is.
The Sophian tradition represents a lineage of spiritual adepts and masters who have taught a secret gospel and Christian Kabbalah to their students, mouth to ear, from one generation to another. Today the initiates of the tradition have begun to openly share the teachings, believing an extension of truth and light essential in our times.
Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Frira
The idea that it represents some hidden and obscene secret motive of the Church does not come easily-- or reasonably.
First, i never said 8 was obscene. There is nothing obscene about the number 8.
Second, i find it HIGHLY, incredibly highly, unlikely, that anything in the Vatican complex - any major monument, or architectural design, is without any metaphysical basis.
ALL religions have always been based on this.
The Jewish temple, of course was based on this conception.
To think the Catholic church is exempt from this principle is to play fairy tale games with someone too educated to believe differently.
Im telling you, there is a metaphysical reasoning for why the vatican is built as it is, why a certain number of saints surround its roof, why the cobblestone in st peters square is designed the way it is, with 8 partitions, 4 larger, 4 smaller, and 8 spokes between each partition.
The science of metaphysics, simply put, is NEVER separated with the building of a sacred structure, and above all, not the Vatican.
Now, probing the significance of the sacred design, of why they chose 8, an obelisk, etc, we can only speculate.
But consider this. All ancient religious traditions subscribe to the same general idea of the number 8. It represents eternity; even the design of the number alludes to that. It also refers to the world beyond the 7 - which represents the spheres of the world. This is why most ancient cultures, and religions, divided time into periods of 7. 7 periods of 4 being a full lunar month (or just short of it, at 29 days). And the 7 planets, visible to the naked eye, referred to the physical manifestation of this metaphysical concept. The 7 worlds are 7 spheres, and these spheres are active principles governing reality (this is also a basic gnostic assumption). They are thus active, moving, as the planets (lit . wandering star) move across the sidereal.
8, refers to the intellect, which "transcends", the physicality (or formation) of the 7.
Wouldnt Jesus' 8 beatitudes, philosophical precepts with no explicit calling towards actions, be a perfect manifestation of this principle, that 8 symbolizes the philosophical, and abstract???
Anyways, this is an assumption i will not part from, because it is so incredibly logical and reasonable. I do not for a second believe that they just haphazardly pick a spot without any deeper philosophical - metaphysical - consideration, when since ancient times this has been the raison d'etre, when building ANY structure. Why else is the church, almost always located in the center of a city? Or facing the east?? Isnt that METAPHYSICS? Of course it is. The east, where the sun rises, is associated with the 'source' of the universe. Thus, east is associated with the concept of spiritual proximity, and this 'likeness' is imitated on earth when we build physical structures. We actually draw the spiritual energies (which only exist in the abstract. So, an abstract principle imbedded in a physical structure will attract the spiritual energies associated with it).
And yes, since this is a esoteric subject, deliberately kept hidden (since the knowledge itself is hidden beneath the veil of physical reality.
For that matter, steeples could be considered phallic. All those "quaint" little hillside chapel-- nothing but pagan fertility symbols?
Now youre just reaching.
This is something i encounter often with Catholics.
Im a former catholic, my sister is a catholic, and same with my mom and dad.
A phallic symbol is a phallic symbol. You cant change a symbol when the idea already associated with it is so primordial; archetypal by its very nature.
Besides, this is ACTUALLY an obelisk, taken from a culture which had a fixed understanding of what the Obelisk symbolized.
It was so universal, that the Obelisk is also found in Mesopotamia, Iran, India, and China. The ancient world knew, and understand the basic metaphysical doctrine behind the obelisk.
Since this is a gnosticism thread. Tell me this. How do you think the gnostics were so sure that this world was a 'machine' or system. How did they know that these abstract concepts they speak of were real things?
Practice. They knew this because they had an already highly evolved system for CONTROLLING, and MANIPULATING, these higher realities.
I know this, because im a curious person, and i myself have seen with my own eyes the reality of this world being nothing more then the projection of a spiritual reality. If you utter certain Hebrew names (or in other lesser systems, Enochian for instance - which seems to be fitted towards the demonic), properly, with the proper instructions, knowing theoretically how it all works, you can uncover some pretty insane things. About other people, about yourself, etc.
My point with all this, metaphysics is REAL, and thus, putting a great deal of thought into how you want to design a church, or a st. peters basillica, is an imperative.edit on 26-8-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)