Communism, Socialism, and Marxism should be declared Treason:

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posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Timing
 


Not necessarily. Rothschild said, once upon a time, "give me control over a country's finances and I care not who controls it's laws." Catching my drift yet? The economical model that we follow is the source of our woes, not any political ideal. You're still thinking too small.




posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Unvarnished
reply to post by nightstalker46
 


If there is anything socialism promises, its the equality of every human being.


They forgot to tell you the fine print. They mean equal suffering under their Totalitarian thumb when they ration the amount of toilet paper you are allowed to have. Your neighbor may not have less toilet paper than you. It would be so unequal. And also the Socialists are more worried about the trees than the people.
edit on 21-8-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by nightstalker46
Considering that all three philosophies, as forms of governance, are contrary to the basic intent of personal freedoms, liberties and sovereignty of the individual, as established by the Constitution: Why do we allow anyone, who professes or proselytizes those belief's, to become involved in government at any level. And why should those who openly advocate the overthrow of those Constitutional principals, not be charged and prosecuted as traitors. What greater threat to liberty than that from within. This should be interesting


This is so closed minded it's not even funny.

The idea of socialism/communism/marxism for that matter arose from the fact that classical capitalism can ONLY work (to an extent) by exploiting one part of people for the financial gain of the rich minority.

The typical example is the poor middle-class worker - who WORKS for the gain of his boss, company etc.

Now..you would be a total fool to deny that capitalism DOES have certain problems coming with it, just look at today's society in the western countries.

Socialism is ALSO that someone realized those problems (inbalance of rich/poor, exploitation etc.) and wanted to form a society where (IN PRINCIPLE) everyone has a roof over their head, car, can pay rent etc..etc..

So..YES in the "real world" marxism did not work - (eg. soviet union etc.) because it got perverted by the greedy people in power who took the place of the capitalists instead - it doesnt matter whether "Mr. Capitalist" is exploiting or taking advantage of the "poor middle class"...or whether the men in power did it.

So..yes we agree communism/marxism FAILED.

However, you americans always, always make the mistake to mix Communism/Socialism/Marxism....and also THINK (wrongly) that socialism has ANYTHING to do with a lack of individual freedom.

In fact, it does not. If we we take certain western European countries which we can to some extent call "socialist", it's simply not true AT ALL that individuals dont have freedom/liberty...nor does it mean an individual can not create personal wealth.

Do you think that in Germany/Norway/Sweden etc. which you often refer to as "socialist" someone can not gain as much wealth as they want or there is ANY liberty taken away from ANYONE?

The difference what you refer to as "socialism" in those countries is a MUCH more developed what we called "social safety net" eg. healthcare for everyone, unemployment insurance etc.etc..

Now..the funny thing is.."you guys" are also paying taxes...just for stupid reasons like wars in the sand...while we have free healthcare instead. This is our "socialism" which you are so afraid of...lol

edit on 21-8-2011 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-8-2011 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-8-2011 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Riposte
No, it is not compassionate to steal from someone, skim off 80% and then hand it out to poor people.


What are you talking about? I'm Canadian. That means one of the most heavily taxed people here and my taxes aren't 30%.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by flexy123
 

edit on 21-8-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Riposte
 


Who are the poor? Your brother, your sister.. maybe you yourself? And really.. what is poor? I make about $22/hr.. is that poor? So now.. if you make $60/hr (for example) why would you have better health care then me? We are both humans who deserve decent care... but you want to make it private so that doctors can be even more wealthy?

Maybe u americans deserve what you get when the depression hit you hard because you were all too concerned about making money, when living within your means wasn't good enough.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by xXxinfidelxXx
 


And I can care less who makes the money if I can control how people make that money.

What that means in a simplified manner, is if I own and control the production and output of oil then the people that drive to work to print the cash and the control the resources it takes for the power plants to run then money is useless.

And Socialism is a well known economic system but the problems is that in order to regulate that economic system it needs a regulatory agency, that would be the government. As you mentioned in your previous post the corporatist bankers have corrupted the monetary system of Europe.

So as I mentioned in reply to your post the real problem is the people that run the government who are able to be bought off to hand control over the corporatist bankers right? So why would anyone willingly give the government an obscene amount of power of your well being in order to force a system of "fairness"?

What does this mean


You're still thinking to small.


In what context does that come to play in the short response that I gave you?
edit on 21-8-2011 by Timing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by NWOPrimate
 

I, for one, completely agree with you. It seems like over the years, the "collective mental picture" of American society has gone from somewhat enlightened to the level of "hey look an alien!". lmao



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by NWOPrimate
reply to post by Riposte
 


Who are the poor? Your brother, your sister.. maybe you yourself? And really.. what is poor? I make about $22/hr.. is that poor? So now.. if you make $60/hr (for example) why would you have better health care then me? We are both humans who deserve decent care... but you want to make it private so that doctors can be even more wealthy?

Maybe u americans deserve what you get when the depression hit you hard because you were all too concerned about making money, when living within your means wasn't good enough.



Everyone wants more stuff, but why would anyone think its better for govt to over spend its boundries because wealthy people are rich and the govt wants more of the wealthy people's money because they think poor people deserve it? Don't you see how ridiculous the Socialist ideology is?


Much of govt overspending is for the bureaucratic organizations that run the various programs. In fact, much of the Stimulus money goes for upgrading databases for electronic health records and for draconian enforcement of HIPAA. It's a fact. Google it.
edit on 21-8-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-8-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by Unvarnished
reply to post by nightstalker46
 


If there is anything socialism promises, its the equality of every human being.
That is the problem. All people are created equal, but not all put out an equal amount of effort. If I work 6 days a week 50-70 hours a week to get the things I want, why should I be forced to donate part of my very life to support those who WILL NOT do the same? If I work all day, and you play video games all day, why should you benefit from my labor?


just because you are living in a community and what you will brought actually you didnt make it yourself , that why you have to accept the rule of sharing something.
You have to understand that if nobody shared anything to you , you wont have any education knowledge and the list go on. You have to rely on other and other have to rely on you. your familly rely on your for exemple your kid to and you yourself did the same with your parent.
You are i think to selfish to figure out that truth by yourself.
If nobody was sharing as well you wont have a job make money or anything.
in our degree of civilisation we shouldnt let people die from starvation , sickness , cold.
You might be created in the same manner , but once you are out of the body humain are not equal that why those social thing that you dont understand exist , to try to fill the gap between rich and poor for exemple.
edit on 21-8-2011 by cyberether because: details



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Don't you see how ridiculous the Socialist ideology is?


Have you missed my posts? There's socialism ALL through your system(not just in the Obama age). Let's get the "boogyman" of socialism out of the mix. McCarthy is dead. His crusade should have died with him.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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yoo obviously have no idea what these ideas actually mean do you?



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Timing
 


The fact that you need me to answer that for you is proof of how small you are thinking. Yes, we, as humans are prone to corruption. Yes, our political system, for the lack of a better word, sucks. But most importantly of all, you cannot take control of the monetary system from the elitists as they have destroyed everyone who has tried to. Think Lincoln, Kennedy or Garfield, for example. They all tried to wrestle control of the monetary system from the banksters and look where they ended up. Your system is doomed. Period. Until the whole thing goes belly up, we cannot do a damn thing. But when it does, I doubt any real positive change will ensue, as this economical/political system has screwed everything up so badly that it has actually tainted our true human nature.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by NWOPrimate
reply to post by Riposte
 


Who are the poor? Your brother, your sister.. maybe you yourself? And really.. what is poor? I make about $22/hr.. is that poor? So now.. if you make $60/hr (for example) why would you have better health care then me? We are both humans who deserve decent care... but you want to make it private so that doctors can be even more wealthy?

Maybe u americans deserve what you get when the depression hit you hard because you were all too concerned about making money, when living within your means wasn't good enough.



Everyone wants more stuff, but why would anyone think its better for govt to over spend its boundries because wealthy people are rich and the govt wants more of the wealthy people's money because they think poor people deserve it? Don't you see how ridiculous the Socialist ideology is?


Cheezus, how old are you?

The gvt doesnt "want" more money because "the poor people deserve is"....fact is that the poor people who are lacking employment, health insurance etc... AS A WHOLE are damaging to the society/economy.

A economy can not thrive and bloom if, say, 25% of people are ***ss poor and homeless. The poor people DO INDEED cost the society money.

A society where many people go bankrupt because they cant afford their doctors/hospitals - in return will damage EVERYONE...

The idea is not to give them money because "they deserve it" but instead to avoid a collapse of the society/economy by having many poor people...and also to make it possible to re-integrate poor/unemployed people back into the society....eg. by providing job training and similar so they can get a good job.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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The OP begins the very first sentence by invoking the "basic intent of personal freedoms, liberties and sovereignty of the individual, as established by the Constitution" and then in the next breath goes on to ask "Why do we allow anyone who professes or proselytizes [certian] belief's to..."

It doesn't matter what comes after the "to" in this sentence; by this alone the OP has already shown himself/herself to be going against the grain of the very beliefs he/she intends to uphold.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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Regarding the claim that European countries are socialist/left-wing...they are not.



Greece is and has been for awhile now. Anyone surprised?
edit on 21-8-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Timing
 


The fact that you need me to answer that for you is proof of how small you are thinking. Yes, we, as humans are prone to corruption. Yes, our political system, for the lack of a better word, sucks. But most importantly of all, you cannot take control of the monetary system from the elitists as they have destroyed everyone who has tried to. Think Lincoln, Kennedy or Garfield, for example. They all tried to wrestle control of the monetary system from the banksters and look where they ended up. Your system is doomed. Period. Until the whole thing goes belly up, we cannot do a damn thing. But when it does, I doubt any real positive change will ensue, as this economical/political system has screwed everything up so badly that it has actually tainted our true human nature.


So what you are basically saying is because, I'm asking you a question about the root of the problem which is people. That I don't understand the crux of the problem? Seems to me you really don't know what you are talking about.

Also what system are you talking about that I am supposedly talking about?
edit on 21-8-2011 by Timing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Don't you see how ridiculous the Socialist ideology is?


Have you missed my posts? There's socialism ALL through your system(not just in the Obama age). Let's get the "boogyman" of socialism out of the mix. McCarthy is dead. His crusade should have died with him.


McCarthy may be dead but communism is not.
The hard core commies went underground. Even Betty Friedan, the liberal feminist who wrote "The Feminine Mystique" was a communist, married to a communist, worked for a communist paper. She pretended she wasn't so she wouldn't be declared bad for the country. Even today, if you are from a foreign country and you want to become an American citizen, they ask you on oath if you have been a member of any communist organization(ACLU seems to be off limits on that one) before they will approve your application.
Hard core communists have been involved in La Raza and the illegal immigration movement of demanding equal rights as American citizens. The underlying agenda is Marxism. Marx preached all that egalite stuff but he still had a maid.


State Superintendent Tom Horne and state Rep. Steve B. Montenegro, R-Litchfield Park, testified Monday in front of the House Education Committee that there is evidence of "racial warfare" taking place in the Tucson Unified School District as a result of Raza Studies.



First, what is "counter-hegemonic curriculum"? It is educating children about the control or dominating influence by one person or group, especially by one political group over society or one nation over other. The program also promotes "Social Justice", a greater degree of economic egalitarianism through progressive taxation, income redistribution, or even property redistribution. These are all policies aimed toward achieving that which developmental economists refer to as more equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.


www.examiner.com...


What is socialism but communism lite! Even on communist party websites they state socialism is just a bridge to the more radical communist society. Even socialism is but a means to an end. Both socialism and communism have their roots in Marxist philosophy. Marx and Engels both embraced Hegel's dialectical reasoning.
edit on 21-8-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Yes we have some sort of socialism here, but it should not have existed. For example, Social Security was presented to the people as a safe lock-box system that would pay for future generations. It was unconstitutional. Then when lawmakers presented it to the judges they had to secretly say it was only a tax, just so it would pass. So basically they had to lie to the people to get it done. Right now the government just uses Social Security money for their own purposes like anything else.

I'm happy to get it since I've been paying for it for years. But in the future it should be removed, and a new system where the government can't take the money should be implemented. Basically it's a pyramid scheme, that is about to collapse.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Regarding the claim that European countries are socialist/left-wing...they are not.



Greece is and has been for awhile now. Anyone surprised?
edit on 21-8-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)


No they are not, but i personally *know* that many Americans *think* they are.

Even if some countries have a "left wing majority" its UTTERLY absurd to make an even remote comparison to communism etc. and talk about "freedom is taken away" and similar as was the case eg. in the former soviet union, or in China/Cuba etc. - simply because once every few years there might a left majority in gvt.

We are still what is called a democratic society and we do NOT live like in Cuba/China.

Even Greece/Spain etc. is a society/gvt where people have their individual rights and everyone can get as rich as they want if they work on it.

The OP is just absurd.
edit on 21-8-2011 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)





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