A question for believers or 'OSers'....

reply to post by sir_slide


Hey, thanks for the thread, and don't let me or the other lads get you down...but mostly me. They're animals.

Seriously though, I'd appreciate it if you stuck around, because whether by design or some other reason, the result of the abusive users is to chase the genuinely curious users away.

This also limits the scope of the acceptable conversation to those who bitch the loudest.

Let the loudmouths bluster all they want.

reply to post by TupacShakur

Can you please provide sources and or proof that the stated delusion, is as described.
Please and Thank you!

reply to post by ShaunHatfield

Can you please provide sources and or proof that the stated delusion, is as described.
Please and Thank you!

There is a link to an article that I provided earlier that has sources backing up every claim. Here.

Also, labeling something a "delusion" without looking at the evidence is pure ignorance on your part.

reply to post by Yankee451


Why cant our intention be the same as yours? Why is yours the noble cause? Because you believe it?

Do you think truthers treat osers with some sort of extraordinary respect?


Some people live in the cotton candy reality.... They seem to only see their side..

reply to post by TupacShakur


Just because I haven't looked at your evidence doesn't mean I haven't looked at similar evidence. You know what they say about assuming, yeah, that's you!

Originally posted by ShaunHatfield
reply to post by Yankee451

 

Why cant our intention be the same as yours? Why is yours the noble cause? Because you believe it?

Do you think truthers treat osers with some sort of extraordinary respect?


Some people live in the cotton candy reality.... They seem to only see their side..

The guy was bummed that you and probably I had messed up the tone and direction of his OP. I do want him to stay and I was making light of us both, but mostly you, in the process.

I was dropped on my head as a child, that's my excuse for being here, but if I was a casual reader I'd avoid this place like the plague.

Do you deny a persistent and sometimes seemingly rehearsed vein of belligerance in the tone of many an OSer, or that that sort of testy attitude would dissuade many a curious reader from joining the conversation?

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by dilly1

 

So which is it, demo, construction or physics? Pick one and stay on target. To understand 9/11, one does not need to be an expert in demolitions, Structural engineering (lets call it that instead of construction) or a valedictorian at Purdue.

I have experience in structural engineering from school and also during a job I had with fabrication. I am no expert but I do know a bs artist and understand not only the concepts but the application.

As far as demolitions, I am no expert, however, I do know how to blow things up and what is involved. In order to demo the WTC, it would be an undertaking that could not be hidden. You could do it, but it would be at least 6 months to a year of empty office space and unhindered access. Any CDI expert who tells you it could be done faster is friends with Mr Sullivan.

As far as physics, they were not suspended on 9/11. They worked. All of Newtons Laws as well as some theory that I have never seen in these forums and if it is, someone starts yelling that 2 planes cannot crush two buildings. That is poor physics. Tell me what happens to the 'mass' that is created when the upper floors absorb the lower floors as they are collapsing. You have to recalculate at each impact with each floor because the mass changes.There is also the velocity change between floors with the greater mass. Mass not only from the building materials but the commercial contents.

I will ask again, where is the evidence of a CDI on 9/11. You state in your post

You clearly must not have any common sense, or maybe you do and your being paid to deflect and derail the opposing argument. I don't know..... But there is only one way to dismantle all that WTC steel within one day,,, and its not gravity or mass(cause I already debunked those too factors in the paragraph above). It can only be done by controlled demolition. I don't know and I don't care if it was explosives or thermate or both. What I do know for a fact is it was done by men who are experts in construction and demolition. The mushroom affect we all saw that day was not the slabs being pulverized by the mass above pushing down floor by floor. The mushroom affect was concrete being blown up by something artificially made by man. What you don't care to learn is there is no set in stone way in demolishing a structure. Its actually an art. Blowing # up is actually fun. And one can make the structure fall in any way or angle, its truly amazing.

The only way is controlled demolition. You also try to push away the increase in mass by stating that the mushroom puffs are from explosions but would it really matter? You statement makes no sense. You see, with a demolition you rely on those things you say were not used, such as ,gravity, mass and velocity to make sure that when you cut the correct columns to 'place' the rubble where you want it that is where it goes. For some reason you feel that once something starts to fall it can never increase in mass. That is theoretically impossible.

Also, I was born across the bridge from the towers and visited them on many occasions as well as right after they opened. I remember when it was open air and before they installed new barriers. I think many of you have no concept of them nor those who worked there with that other side conversation regarding the RF signals. Many organizations, including financial, will also block those frequencies from the outside and protect sensitive data so what would you do at that point. There are to many variables there. How many of you have ever visited NY let alone have lived there. Maybe that is where part of my passion comes from because everytime I go home it is hard to cross the bridge and not see them downtown.

edit on 17-8-2011 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)

I'm on my black berry, didn't see your response,my fault.

First I'll reply to your latest post.


I am an (american) general contractor ,currently working UAE(all I do is high-rises). That's all of my bio you're going to get:



For Your other post:

Why do you continue to separate demo,construction and physics? What I have been explaining to you is all three have to be understood to talk about them. Your resume is not good enough to talk about construction. Why is that so hard to take. So your statement "to understand 911 ,one does not need to be an expert in demolition,structural eng. bla bla bla" is stated incorrectly. It should be: understanding WTC's construction and the reason why the structure failed in 911. Which you can't understand because you have no degree and no accumulated man hours on any actual high-rise job site.


You say you have structural schooling. What level? High school? Please,,,you have to be kidding me.

Knowing how to blow things up doesn't mean you know the in's and out's of demo-prep. A normal Demo-prep can take weeks to months depending on the size and surroundings of the project/site. WTC towers are extremely similar to how construction was in Dubai. Around the clock. Meaning there was always interior work being done in WTC towers day and night. It happens with all massive high rises(constant movement),,, So secretly positioning anything is possible.


Again you would have known that if you were involved in real construction.


The 911 storyline is voodoo physics. The planes are made from aluminum ,the buildings were made from steel,,,,,,hello!. Does that mean anything to you? You want physics,,,are you meaning to tell me your voodoo physics which is "hundreds of tons of aluminum holding 40k gallons of fuel can collapse 1,200,000 tons of steel" can happen again? If a replica of the twin towers and building seven were built are you willing to bet the same thing would happen again? If you think yes you know nothing about physics.

I'm realizing you could care less about my explanation in regards to the floor by floor theory... That theory can't happen . Its impossible. Buildings are designed for that to never happen. If there was a floor by floor collapse the center core and out walls would be standing!!!!!!!! I am sick and tired of repeating myself.



The same for demolishing a building. There's hundreds of ways to pulverize a building. There is no one way!!!!!! Why can't you accept that.


Its obvious I have proved my point because I know what I am talking about. You don't ,,thinking your expertise: born across a bridge, high school level in structural engineering and a job with fabrication is sufficient. Lol


Your a lost clown bud.

Originally posted by dilly1
. The most obvious perception involving matter is ,If one object is smaller than the other, it cannot trump the larger mass.

So I'll say it again for the billionth time.

Its is impossible for two 116ton jets carrying 23k gallons of fuel CAN collapse three massive structures weighing 1,200,000tons(combined) of concrete and steel. All collapsing in one day. Its all a lie.

Can you explain to me how a building can demolished by explosives using Truther Physics ? I understand how it works using real world physics but I want to know how it works using Truther Physics,

Does the mass of the explosives have to be equal to or greater than the mass of the building. Was 1,200,000tons of thermite and / or explosives snuck into and planted in the Trade Towers.

Originally posted by ANOK

See those things circled in red? Those are the outer walls, what does it matter which is which, can't you figure that out for yourself?

You can see the walls can't you? I think they are the walls because they are, just look jeez. If they are not the outer walls folded in on top, then what are they?

You keep telling us that that all 4 walls are laying on top of the rubble it seems that you should know which was which. If i was making that claim I would know which was which.

reply to post by waypastvne


The funny thing is, the person making the claim is the one who must provide the proof.

The claim is two aluminumn jets, and a couple above ground pools' worth of kerosene wiped out three steel skyscrapers and the rest of the WTC complex.

It is a wild claim, for which no proof has been offered in ten long years.

All that's offered is an accusation of delusion for anyone demanding proof of such a claim. Extroadinary claims require extroadinary proof...especially if based on that claim, we're going to go killing people and taking their stuff.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by dilly1
. The most obvious perception involving matter is ,If one object is smaller than the other, it cannot trump the larger mass.

So I'll say it again for the billionth time.

Its is impossible for two 116ton jets carrying 23k gallons of fuel CAN collapse three massive structures weighing 1,200,000tons(combined) of concrete and steel. All collapsing in one day. Its all a lie.

Can you explain to me how a building can demolished by explosives using Truther Physics ? I understand how it works using real world physics but I want to know how it works using Truther Physics,

Does the mass of the explosives have to be equal to or greater than the mass of the building. Was 1,200,000tons of thermite and / or explosives snuck into and planted in the Trade Towers.

Truther physics? Did you read my previous post or skimmed thru it? There is no set "in stone " way when doing demo-prep. Just like a developer has to create a pro-forma/a budget to construct a tower. The demo-contractor does the same approach. So it depends.

In 911 there was no budget ,especially with the twin towers . Hence the mushroom explosion(not implosion like WTC7)

In demo-prep the approach is weakening (by physically cutting the support columns or the use of thermate) the lower section of the building 20 to 30%. The rest(charges) is how creative the demo-contractor can be or aloud to dismantle structure and allowing gravity take its course.

Since:

Safety wasn't the case in 911
;and "shock 'n awe" demonstration seems to be the desired performance to convince us all that it cannot be some inside job; a structure this size(two of them in one day) has never been demolished before ,,you could say more explosive were used than the usual case...it would be impossible to measure or predict.

I know your not going to believe me nor anyone that thinks differently than you. And you don't care to learn about construction let alone physics.

But just remember 232 tons of aluminum holding 46,000 gallons of fuel cannot , in no way, collapse or bring 3 huge building weighing 1,200,000 tons of steel and concrete.

What I find really amusing is you want me to prove to you how it is possible explosives can do what happened on 911 but you are convinced the original storyline is undoubtedly the correct script when never has fire/gravity and an "aluminum impact" upon steel destroyed something many,many times larger than its own mass(2 planes+fuel amount+gravity).



And in my previous post I clearly state it is very possible to plan ahead and position any type of explosive because of the around the clock movement in massive structures. Interior work is always present during "after hours".



I suggest you learn first before assuming

reply to post by waypastvne


All you are showing is your utter retardness, try taking a step back, breath and try using the thing above your shoulders for a change.

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by waypastvne

 

The funny thing is, the person making the claim is the one who must provide the proof.

The claim is two aluminumn jets, and a couple above ground pools' worth of kerosene wiped out three steel skyscrapers and the rest of the WTC complex.

It is a wild claim, for which no proof has been offered in ten long years.

All that's offered is an accusation of delusion for anyone demanding proof of such a claim. Extroadinary claims require extroadinary proof...especially if based on that claim, we're going to go killing people and taking their stuff.

Actually, plenty of proof has been offered, no need to repeat all the reports and references. You have choosen to ignore or deny that which has been offered without a logical or reasonable explanation. The ball is now in your court - prove your allegations.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by waypastvne

 

The funny thing is, the person making the claim is the one who must provide the proof.

The claim is two aluminumn jets, and a couple above ground pools' worth of kerosene wiped out three steel skyscrapers and the rest of the WTC complex.

It is a wild claim, for which no proof has been offered in ten long years.

All that's offered is an accusation of delusion for anyone demanding proof of such a claim. Extroadinary claims require extroadinary proof...especially if based on that claim, we're going to go killing people and taking their stuff.

Actually, plenty of proof has been offered, no need to repeat all the reports and references. You have choosen to ignore or deny that which has been offered without a logical or reasonable explanation. The ball is now in your court - prove your allegations.

Sure, so much proof and evidence that they had the chance to ship it all to china before it was investigated. Oh wait...

reply to post by hooper

Actually, plenty of proof has been offered, no need to repeat all the reports and references. You have choosen to ignore or deny that which has been offered without a logical or reasonable explanation. The ball is now in your court - prove your allegations.

If plenty has been offered, it should be no effort to provide it.

reply to post by waypastvne

Can you explain to me how a building can demolished by explosives using Truther Physics ? I understand how it works using real world physics but I want to know how it works using Truther Physics,

Does the mass of the explosives have to be equal to or greater than the mass of the building. Was 1,200,000tons of thermite and / or explosives snuck into and planted in the Trade Towers.

From this thread:

When we look at the demolition of the Landmark Tower, 364 pounds of explosives were used to bring it down. Scale that up to the Twin Towers, and it's around 1300 pounds of explosives.

1,200,000 tons? That's crazy. Plus thermite isn't even an explosive, it's an incendiary that can cut steel. This article explains it:

Thus, for a high explosive to significantly fragment a material, its detonation velocity has to be greater than the speed of sound in that material, which requires a detonation velocity of at least 3,200 m/s to fragment concrete and 6,100 m/s to fragment steel–far beyond 895 m/s for nanothermite.

So thermite may have been used to cut the core column and initiate the drop of the top section, or weaken the steel structure throughout the building, but I believe that RDX or a more powerful explosive finished the job since nanothermite is incapable of turning concrete to dust.

Originally posted by dilly1

Its is impossible for two 116ton jets carrying 23k gallons of fuel CAN collapse three massive structures weighing 1,200,000tons(combined) of concrete and steel. All collapsing in one day. Its all a lie.

The first law of Truther Physics appears to be:

"If the mass of object A is less than the mass of object B then object A can not destroy object B"
or F=ML force equals mass largest.

Acceleration appears to play no part in Truther Physics.

Using this law it would stand to reason that the mass of the explosives used would need to greater than 1,200,000tons. Using a explosive mass less than 1,200,000tons would break the first law of Truther Physics.

What happens when the mass of both objects are equal ? Both are destroyed ? Neither are damaged ?

In an explosion a solid or liquid is rapidly converted into a gas. It retains it's same mass but increases in volume. This lowers its mass density. What part does mass density play in Truther Physics ? Can an object with less mass density (such as a gas) destroy an object with greater mass density (such as steel) ? If so, why cant an object with a mass density greater than that of a gas (such as aluminium) destroy an object made of steel ?
Can you help me understand Truther Physics so I will know how the Twin Towers were destroyed.
It seems to me that explosives would work better in Truther World if they went from a gas to a solid.

Are the Laws of Truther Physics written down some were so I can read them, or they a secret passed from Truther to Truther ?

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by waypastvne

 

Can you explain to me how a building can demolished by explosives using Truther Physics ? I understand how it works using real world physics but I want to know how it works using Truther Physics,

Does the mass of the explosives have to be equal to or greater than the mass of the building. Was 1,200,000tons of thermite and / or explosives snuck into and planted in the Trade Towers.

From this thread:

When we look at the demolition of the Landmark Tower, 364 pounds of explosives were used to bring it down. Scale that up to the Twin Towers, and it's around 1300 pounds of explosives.

1,200,000 tons? That's crazy. Plus thermite isn't even an explosive, it's an incendiary that can cut steel. This article explains it:

Thus, for a high explosive to significantly fragment a material, its detonation velocity has to be greater than the speed of sound in that material, which requires a detonation velocity of at least 3,200 m/s to fragment concrete and 6,100 m/s to fragment steel–far beyond 895 m/s for nanothermite.

So thermite may have been used to cut the core column and initiate the drop of the top section, or weaken the steel structure throughout the building, but I believe that RDX or a more powerful explosive finished the job since nanothermite is incapable of turning concrete to dust.

No I want explosives demolitions explained to me using Truther Physics not real physics you know the

" Its is impossible for two 116ton jets carrying 23k gallons of fuel CAN collapse three massive structures weighing 1,200,000tons(combined) of concrete and steel."

kind of physics. Why is it that:

"1300 pounds of explosives CAN collapse three massive structures weighing 1,200,000tons(combined) of concrete and steel."

But:

"Its is impossible for two 116ton jets carrying 23k gallons of fuel CAN collapse three massive structures weighing 1,200,000tons(combined) of concrete and steel."

Can you explain Truther Physics to me.