Who's to blame?

Here's an interesting graph i found online chronicling america's debt since Ronald Reagon.






According to the graph, George Bush has managed to add $4.2 trillion dollars to Americas debt since he took over and Obama in the 2 and half years he has been in office has already exceeded that mark by 1 billion.

Wars are expensive, so you could argue the debt Bush incurred are a result of it. You could also argue that the Bush family, whether intentionally or not, plunged America into further debt thru personal vendetta, greed, global stupidity or pure hatred of humanity for engaging the armed forces into an illegal military invasion of a non hostile nation and member of the United Nations.

With the war in Iraq over, meaning it's not on cnn anymore, the debt should be going down not up. But Obama has added nearly $5 trillion to it and his Healthcare reforms haven't even kicked in yet.

Were is this money going?

America is currently borrowing money to make the interest payments on borrowed money. Conveniently the Federal Reserve interest rates on loans are almost at an all-time low. They are not even bothering with bringing down the balance and aren't planning to anytime soon.

I don't think people are aware of the vast scope and immense magnitude of the situation.

We are witnessing the collapse of the American Capitalist system.

Largest holders of u.s. debt ($blns):

China 1,159.8
Japan 906.9
U.K. 333.0
Brazil 189.8
Oil exporters 204.3

reply to post by randomname


From your graph, I would say democrats and republicans are to blame.

Not Obama, not Bush, not even Carter specifically (even though I hate that bastard) THE WHOLE LOT! And guess what, IT will just get WORSE.

Unless we end the federal government! Woo Hoo!

It's all Bush's fault. Just because the last 3 years have risen by over $4 trillion dollars doesn't mean a thing. BTW: Walk carefully here. The entitlement crowd doesn't hold to well to having facts and graphs thrown at them.

/TOA

Originally posted by The Old AmericanThe entitlement crowd doesn't hold to well to having facts and graphs thrown at them.

/TOA

Nancy Pelosi told me it was my right to not have facts thrown at me, and these "fact throwers" are racist nazis!

reply to post by The Old American


So ask yourself. Given that there have not been any truly significant spending increases in those three years ("Significant" in Washington terminology) where is all the debt coming from?

Paying for the massive spending increases that started after January, 2001, perhaps?

Way it looks to me, Obama didn't let the bull out of the pen, but he's the one stuck holding the rope.

reply to post by randomname


I found this chart too. It is a little different. You have to use the slider bar to see the whole thing so sorry about that but sure you can get the jist of it.




Courtesy of PurpledogUK - www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by newcovenant


Let's not forget this one:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dfde78c7e27d.jpg[/atsimg]

Obama to Become 'Führer', Like Hitler Did on August 2 if Debt Deal Passes!!
larouchepac.com...

QEIII and the Fate of Mankind
larouchepac.com...

blame democrats for their creation of the federal reserve and their creations of social security medicare and medicaid and then blame them for all their rules and regualtions and mismanagement of those programs.

and then you can blame the democrats for somailia,libya,pakistan,yemen and yep still in iraq and afghanistan,

and then you can blame the democrats for their control over the education system since carter that produces nothing than less than stellar results.

but no wait its all bushes fault even tho the largest housing bubble that made americans millions even tho frank and dodd were behind the scenes manipulating everything and saying no no everything fine here nothing to see.

and then when the government backed those loans because they had to because they had to cover up their own duplicity that banks get that blame cause they are always the favorite villians here because the mass sheeple taught by the democrats buy everything they said hook line and sinker without a second thought

because all those good little democrats hey their looking out for you.

the way i see it the democrats manipulation for the past 40 years has paid out really well for them

why because the people are dense and what better way to seize power and control than to create the "crisis" to seize more power and control.

reply to post by randomname

www.thedailybeast.com...

A gift from President Clinton to the folks on his team, it was the first balanced budget in decades. But it wasn't supposed to be the last. Indeed, experts projected surpluses as far as the eye could see: $5.7 trillion in surpluses, to be exact. The surpluses were so strong that deep into the future—in 2009—the entire national debt was going to be zero. For the first time since Andy Jackson was president, the United States of America would not owe a dime.

It was instead a Republican House, a Republican Senate, and a Republican president who squandered the surplus. In full possession of the federal government for the first time since Eisenhower, the GOP—with, to be fair, some help from some very foolish Democrats—systematically dismantled the economic and fiscal policies that produced the strongest economy and largest budget surplus in our history. Specifically, they did four things: cut taxes (with a heavy tilt toward the rich), waged two wars on the national credit card (one of which was against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and posed no serious threat to America), passed a prescription drug benefit with no pay-for (the first entitlement in American history without a revenue source), and deregulated Wall Street (which helped turn the American economy into a casino and touched off the Great Recession).

What the GOP seeks is a banana republic: a toxic blend of right-wing populism, anti-intellectualism, debt defaults, and an end to the ladder of economic opportunity.

Originally posted by randomname
We are witnessing the collapse of the American Capitalist system.

Sounds like a good oppurtunity for some socialism!

I swear if I see one more post claiming that Social Security is some sort of entitlement program I'm gonna scream.

Working AMERICANS pay into Social Security with every single paycheck they earn. We PAY for that. It is not GIVEN to us. The United States government has taken the money for Social Security and used it as they saw fit. Now that they can't pay it back, they figure its better to screw the American people rather than screw their bankster buddies or foreign nations.

Lets make this very clear. Social Security has been and still is paid for by working Americans. The United States government STOLE that money. They now figure it is easier to screw American's than to repay the money they looted. The American public is the largest holder of US debt. Period. The government robbed us, and if they choose to cut social security they are liars and thief's and every single one of them should be thrown out of office.

I sincerely HOPE that US credit rating gets downgraded. This bulls**t plan of placing a band-aid on the problem so it doesn't have to be dealt with now is sickening. Get rid of the Federal Reserve. Stop BORROWING money AT INTEREST when we have the ability and the right to make it ourselves interest free. End these pointless "kill the brown people" wars. Stop giving aid to nations that do not need it. Get rid of these tax loop holes that corporations use. Just those few things would save trillions. But hey thats just logial. It will never happen.

I pledge allegiance my ass...

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by The Old American

 

So ask yourself. Given that there have not been any truly significant spending increases in those three years ("Significant" in Washington terminology) where is all the debt coming from?

Paying for the massive spending increases that started after January, 2001, perhaps?

Way it looks to me, Obama didn't let the bull out of the pen, but he's the one stuck holding the rope.

I have a better idea: let's ask Obama why he hasn't stopped the murdering of the residents of Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, and Iraq. Let's ask why he hasn't pulled the military out of the 120 or so sovereign nations we're not at war with. Let's ask him why he voted to extend the Fascism Act. Let's ask him why he can't keep his hands out of Social Security. He's had 3 years to shrink the debt by trillions just by stopping these acts alone.

There's definitely some bull associated with Obama, but not the way you said.

/TOA

Originally posted by DerekJR321
I swear if I see one more post claiming that Social Security is some sort of entitlement program I'm gonna scream.

Working AMERICANS pay into Social Security with every single paycheck they earn. We PAY for that. It is not GIVEN to us. The United States government has taken the money for Social Security and used it as they saw fit. Now that they can't pay it back, they figure its better to screw the American people rather than screw their bankster buddies or foreign nations.

Lets make this very clear. Social Security has been and still is paid for by working Americans. The United States government STOLE that money. They now figure it is easier to screw American's than to repay the money they looted. The American public is the largest holder of US debt. Period. The government robbed us, and if they choose to cut social security they are liars and thief's and every single one of them should be thrown out of office.

Unfortunately you're only mostly right. While SS isn't an entitlement program, it's also not insurance or a savings program, as it was sold to the American public by FDR. It's just a tax. An unusual one, to be sure, as no other tax program gives any expectation of the "contributor" receiving anything back, but just a tax all the same. But nobody has any right, or guarantee, of receiving SS "benefits". So, in effect, they aren't "stealing" from it. FDR just lied to us about what it really was, and government has been lying about it ever since to win votes.

/TOA