Tiahuanaco, Puma Punku the real mystery...

reply to post by WarminIndy


It is interesting customs are shared by cultures so far apart when travel time took months. The sea merchants must have been the means of this form of propagation in the ancient world. The crews of these sea merchants didn't necessarily share their beliefs with foreigners but their passengers probably did. Ancient passports handed out by the Sea Kings?

Have you seen photos of women's feet that were banded? That type of augmentation seems more extreme than adding neck rings. Foot binding reminds minds me of woman slavery. A woman with foot binding is not capable of running - to flee from her captors. Modern day stilettos are the remnants of that culture.

Dragons and serpents seem to be common in all cultures around the world. I wonder if it has to do with the era of the dinosaurs? The ancients must have dug up a few dinosaur bones while constructing some of their dwellings. I saw this Chinese shrine in Asia that had a dinosaur foot print inside it.

I tried to google "St. Christopher slaying a dragon" and I could not find any information. Could you please provide a link? The closest thing I could find was "Saint George and the Dragon" on the net. Thanks for making me look because after reading about Saint George I finally found the source material for the movie Dragonslayer - Produced by Paramount and Walt Disney. That is one of my all time favorite dragon movies.


Dragonslayer



Vermithrax Pejorative
Latin- “The Worm of Thrace who makes things worse.”


I find it interesting that we don’t depict most dinosaurs with horns but ancient mythology does. Vermithtrax Pejorative is no different. The objects on Tanit that appear to be braided hair could also be draping horns.

Originally posted by lostinspace
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

It is interesting customs are shared by cultures so far apart when travel time took months. The sea merchants must have been the means of this form of propagation in the ancient world. The crews of these sea merchants didn't necessarily share their beliefs with foreigners but their passengers probably did. Ancient passports handed out by the Sea Kings?

Have you seen photos of women's feet that were banded? That type of augmentation seems more extreme than adding neck rings. Foot binding reminds minds me of woman slavery. A woman with foot binding is not capable of running - to flee from her captors. Modern day stilettos are the remnants of that culture.

Dragons and serpents seem to be common in all cultures around the world. I wonder if it has to do with the era of the dinosaurs? The ancients must have dug up a few dinosaur bones while constructing some of their dwellings. I saw this Chinese shrine in Asia that had a dinosaur foot print inside it.

I tried to google "St. Christopher slaying a dragon" and I could not find any information. Could you please provide a link? The closest thing I could find was "Saint George and the Dragon" on the net. Thanks for making me look because after reading about Saint George I finally found the source material for the movie Dragonslayer - Produced by Paramount and Walt Disney. That is one of my all time favorite dragon movies.


Dragonslayer



Vermithrax Pejorative
Latin- “The Worm of Thrace who makes things worse.”


I find it interesting that we don’t depict most dinosaurs with horns but ancient mythology does. Vermithtrax Pejorative is no different. The objects on Tanit that appear to be braided hair could also be draping horns.

St. George is right. I thought of that after I posted it, then went to look at youtube videos. You are right.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hi There Slayer 69


I Had some Thoughts that as some people say it was Carved Chiseled & Etching at the Locations of the
The Ruined Stoned Blocks and Other Structures in Puma Punku and Tiahuanaco and
Other Mesoamerican architecture & Inca architecture

As i Look and look at the Architectural Ruins in these Locations

I would think the Stones were made from Pattern Mold or in Some Cases some kind of Excursion or Molding
More Like what ive seen in a Aluminum Making plant (ALCOA)

What you see below Image is the Same Pattern in a row its like a patterned Mold

Chan Chan Trujillo, Peru



To Me I would think that in some way the Makers of these Ruins Must of Soften or Liquified/Melted/molten
The Stone In some way

The Perfect Example is

when you see a Bracket Inlet in the Stone Were Metal was Thought To be Poured In the Blocks of Stone
that Are/ Were to be Linked/Brought together to Secure it from Coming Apart

Especially in Puma Punku

what ive Seen is the Metal Brackets were possibly not Poured ! but Pressed in?
Were The Metal Brackets were PRESSED in when the Stone when it was a Soft State ?

When you think in that Line !

When the Stone was Soft
a Pattern Mold Or Some Molding Tool Could of Been Used on the Lego Like H Block

Especially when you think what you can Do in Masonry with Cement !

The Biggest Stumped Question is How Can you Soften Granite or Dolerite ?

Extreme Heat & Pressure ?
Acid Softening Etching ?
Or a Liquid Rock Molten State then Put into a Mold ( Thinking about the H blocks)

But How Would They have Done it ? what would they have Used to do it ?
Any One Have any Thoughts about this ?

Here is a Site that Shows Up Close Good Quality Pics of the Stones in Puma Punku from different locations
from Different Sources to sites for a better Look of the Stone Structures

In.com
connect.in.com...

Now is there any evidence of a Clue of how they were built ? tho there is claim to be There's NO Recorded Past of the INCAS , unlike the Maya Scripts Only Written Language Incas might of had is called Knotted Language == Quipu/kuipu

Is this Ruined Site Made Below from Softening Stone?

When you see this
Sacsayhuaman






Sacsayhuamán
en.wikipedia.org...

I still Say it has to be a Pattern Mold to make these H Blocks ..


The plant that softens stone., page 1
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by lostinspace


i was just struck the statue is female and the practice of the rings is pretty much a female thang.

it's also a sign of beauty.

as to it's protective properties, a tiger or lion would spread them rings no prob.

reply to post by Wolfenz


I posted earlier, to me those stones look clearly moulded, not cut, yes. The characteristics of the details indicate this..
look at the pictures 25 and 29..
connect.in.com...

Originally posted by anti72
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

I posted earlier, to me those stones look clearly moulded, not cut, yes. The characteristics of the details indicate this..
look at the pictures 25 and 29..
connect.in.com...

edit on 2-8-2011 by anti72 because: (no reason given)

My Thoughts Exactly !




My Belief! IS !
This isn't Etched or Chiseled nor Cut ! it was Pressed in like Cookie Cutter Pattern!



as you see in this Image below
The 2 Pairs and the One behind it are exactly the same as if it were made from a mould or a pattern Piece !

I would not think that no 2 would be alike especially made by Hand with primitive Tools!
i
Some case's when the Stones is made out of Granite or Dolrite ! the Primitive Tools must be made out of Diamonds and the Makers had the Strength ( Pressure ) that machine Fitting Press !




Cut Or molded?

but when you think of Masonry of a Mold Pattern ! Used with Cement you can do the same thing!!!




Hey you Never know ! LOL!

reply to post by Wolfenz


Even if it was concrete then who made the unbelievable molds that are no longer around?
The legend of the rock hewn churches of Lalibela, Ethiopia may shed some light.

"According to a 19th Century Ethiopian manuscript God inspired Lalibela to build the churches; moreover, after Lalibela's subjects had finished each day's work, the angels pitched in at night." - African Kingdoms by Basil Davidson and the Editors of Time-Life books.

Replace the name God and angels with alien. The elaborate crop circles we see today are probably from the same source.

King Lalibela said he crafted his rock hewn churches only using a adze. I highly doubt it.

Originally posted by lostinspace
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

Even if it was concrete then who made the unbelievable molds that are no longer around?
The legend of the rock hewn churches of Lalibela, Ethiopia may shed some light.

"According to a 19th Century Ethiopian manuscript God inspired Lalibela to build the churches; moreover, after Lalibela's subjects had finished each day's work, the angels pitched in at night." - African Kingdoms by Basil Davidson and the Editors of Time-Life books.

Replace the name God and angels with alien. The elaborate crop circles we see today are probably from the same source.

King Lalibela said he crafted his rock hewn churches only using a adze. I highly doubt it.

I was going to post that ! about the churches of Ethiopia

Speaking of Ethiopia ! Hmm !! as Member Lostinspace Posted on the First Page of this Thread


Obelisk of Axum
en.wikipedia.org...

The Poster that put this in Wiki say Carved ! Well it may not be Carved it may be moluded Soft Rock Like Puma Punku it does have similar styling and crafting !

According to their Legend as you Said that Angels worked On it at Night!! So Its Self Explanatory

Angels (Highly Civilized Humans or Outer Space Aliens ) take a Pick

Church of Saint George, Lalibela
en.wikipedia.org...

Photos of Church of St George
www.galenfrysinger.com...

www.galenfrysinger.com...

Photo Gallery: Rock Churches of Lalibela
www.sacred-destinations.com...

Gebre Mesqel Lalibela
en.wikipedia.org...

Details about the construction of his 11 monolithic churches at Lalibela have been lost. The later Gadla Lalibela, a hagiography of the king, states that he carved these churches out of stone with only the help of angels

Carved or molded Stone Softening

The Same way as Pre columbian Ruins

When I say Molds I also Mean a Pattern Shaping Forming Tool Like what you might See in Masonry
not necessarily a Pour In Mold







LOL Using Adze Hmm doubt it either ! Unless ! the Rock/Stone WAS Soft ! at Some Point
Even if it was Used when the Rock ws Soft!! you would still see Cut marks from a ADZE!!!! or the Angels did the Carving i mean Masonry ART detail ! at night! :LOL:

Originally posted by Wolfenz

The ´alien theory´ has yet to be proven. I think people overestimate this, how do they KNOW ´aliens´have done this at all..pure speculation, imagination and blaming of alien..lol.
nothing more.


really, one thing is to go into investigation first about all the buildings on the site, the different kind of stones, then
looking at the construction. Some look chiseled, some dont.

Another thing is, as in comparison to giza, look for stages of construction, which gives clues about how they constructed. Dont get distracted by thoughts like ´theses were stone age people with stone tools´.

Well People Wait Until you got a Load of this!!

I guess seeing is Believing The similarity are Very Close !

as the Legend of the Story that Angels Help built some of the Structures like Church of Saint George, Lalibelain Labibela Ethiopia and the Strutures in Axum Just as who those Angles are ...

I tend to think There is a Connection ! Axum Ethiopia & Puma Punku

Legendary Times Magazine Global Community Network



Puma Punku vs Aksum / The Ark / Queen of Sheba?
www.legendarytimes.com...

hm something like Puma Punku except its in Ethiopia

this is the queen's palace ruins:
Familiar technology?






The Metal Brackets & Fittings

Ethiopia





Looks way familiar

Puma Punku



Yet thousand Miles & Oceans Apart

@ Slayer69, you have alot of details there, but for Pumapunku you forget one important key feature. The magalithic structures that were experty tooled and crafted, were made out of Diurite rock. Diurite is the second hardest stone in the world. The only thing stronger than diurite is diamond. Makes you wonder how a people from ancient times were able to cut these megalithic structures when they didnt have lasers or diamond tipped tools? Another thing about Pumapunku, its geographically impossible for these magalithic blocks to have been cut and hauled using trees as rollars (the only real viable way to move such blocks in ancient times), since its elevation is high enough that trees wont grow. This may fall in line with ancient astronaught theories, however i'm not going to be one to jump on that particular band wagon.

Since there is little moisture in that region, there would be little erosion beyond what the wind could do on its own, Pumapunku could have been there when the region was lower in altitude, possibly millions of years ago? just a thought. This much i know is true, civilization has been around for at LEAST 14,000 years.

reply to post by Wolfenz


One of the links you posted on the church of St. George showed a painting of George slaying a dragon. I didn’t know this was the same George WarminIndy and I were talking about earlier. Interesting connection of thoughts.

Photos of Church of St George
www.galenfrysinger.com...

Here’s another interesting comment from the book I have on Lalibela.
“The rock from which the churches of Lalibela were hewn is a red volcanic tuff common throughout the mountains of Ethiopia. This material is relatively easy to carve-but while European builders could correct their errors, in Lalibela a surveying miscalculation or a moment of carelessness might have ruined a whole church.” - African Kingdoms by Basil Davidson

Good job finding the joining copper pins in both civilizations.

I don’t believe these churches were originally built for Christianity. They had to have been built by an earlier civilization that also venerated the cross. The Mayans held the symbol of the cross in high regard and it wasn’t because of Jesus. It’s much more plausible that the original inhabitants converted to Christianity during the reign of Lalibela. The king is just giving himself and his newly found god the credit for making the preexisting buildings.

In the myth of St. George and the Dragon, St. George would only slay the dragon if the people converted to Christianity. I wonder if the place of Silene “in Libya“ (where the dragon was living) is really talking about the original location of Lalibela or Axum?



Back to Puma Punku

It seems to be the remains of a great wharf and a massive, four-part, now collapsed building, and this makes eminent sense for Lake Titicaca long ago lapped upon the shores of Tiahuanaco city, now inland from the lake twelve miles. One of the construction blocks from which the pier was fashioned weighs an estimated 440 tons (equal to nearly 600 full-size cars) and several other blocks are between 100 and 150 tons. The quarry for these giant blocks was on the western shore of Titicaca, some ten miles away. There is no known technology in the ancient Andean world that could have transported stones of such massive weight and size. The Andean people of 500 AD, with their simple reed boats, could certainly not have moved them.

www.world-mysteries.com...

This civilization had some technology better than the wheel.


There has to be something we are missing. Imagine the large Axum Obelisk’s construction. Did they create really tall scaffolding to finish the sides or did they carve it on the ground? If they carved it on the ground then how did they flip it over to do the underside without destroying the finished sides?

reply to post by Wolfenz


Excellent contributions. Now can we figure out how they moved them after?

Since many of the metal pins/ties are found on the vertical and not just the horizontal

Originally posted by Egyptia
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I don't know who you are Slayer, but your archeological threads are amazing. This tells me you are a detective into our origins and a seeker into the mysteries of everything that we are. You are putting the puzzle peices together and discovering the true history. There is nothing mainstream about you because you see beyond the lies. Linear history as we are told is a deflection from the truth.

Thank you!!!

In all fairness I couldn't agree more, Slayer is the reason I signed up to ATS in the 1st place, I never really have very much to offer but I just love learning & not accepting the mainstream views on things.

I really don't know much about construction, but don't builders use rebar today to strengthen concrete? That is the only thing I see missing from these sites, but they still manage to stand for a several thousand years and even modern buildings eventually fall in on themselves.

Those concrete buildings, would they have been cooler during the summer? But what is interesting is that while they used the concrete for their buildings, they did not use them for roads. If they transported their blocks over long distances it would have been very difficult an certainly the ground around the site would indicate that by groove marks of wagon, or sleds or something. So they must have built them on the site and probably had the mixing equipment there.

Like I said, I don't know much about construction. But if these people were smart enough to make buildings, they were smart enough to handle the logistics of the construction.

Originally posted by anti72

Originally posted by Wolfenz

The ´alien theory´ has yet to be proven. I think people overestimate this, how do they KNOW ´aliens´have done this at all..pure speculation, imagination and blaming of alien..lol.
nothing more.

really, one thing is to go into investigation first about all the buildings on the site, the different kind of stones, then
looking at the construction. Some look chiseled, some dont.

Another thing is, as in comparison to giza, look for stages of construction, which gives clues about how they constructed. Dont get distracted by thoughts like ´theses were stone age people with stone tools´.

Now this picture is something I can relate to. I used to work at a factory that made furniture components. The decorative things you see on your furniture such as the legs and feet of recliners and on bed frames. What we used to make this was a combination wood/plastic chemical that was liquid but after sitting in a mold hardened. And we had to be very careful to make sure no air bubbles could form so we had to fill the mold by an air compressed hose that forced the compound into the mold, then we had to shake the mold to bring the air bubbles to the top.

While looking at this, it has a lot of air bubble holes. It seems to me to be molded. Their compound would have been much heavier than what I used. I am sure a lot of buildings are like that, but today people use those giant concrete mixers. Suppose maybe back then they had concrete mixers but they operated them by humans.

I don't know much about construction, so ignore me if my post makes no sense.

Are there pictures of different "H" blocks?

If they were detailed enough you could look for similar flaws from the same mold.

I don't discount the ancient aliens theory, but I do think it is more likely that ancient man was far more advanced than our ego's will allow us to admit.

Intelligence hasn't increased, technology has, which actually lowers the group IQ because we let machines think for us.

Advanced astronomy requires math, lots of it. And I have a hard time buying a civilization that has advanced Math and astronomy, but no written language.

With the amount of history that been destroyed or altered, anything could be possible.

I'm interested enough in this that I'm considering going there next year, the vacation fund is almost full again.

Now this picture is something I can relate to. I used to work at a factory that made furniture components. The decorative things you see on your furniture such as the legs and feet of recliners and on bed frames. What we used to make this was a combination wood/plastic chemical that was liquid but after sitting in a mold hardened. And we had to be very careful to make sure no air bubbles could form so we had to fill the mold by an air compressed hose that forced the compound into the mold, then we had to shake the mold to bring the air bubbles to the top.

While looking at this, it has a lot of air bubble holes. It seems to me to be molded. Their compound would have been much heavier than what I used. I am sure a lot of buildings are like that, but today people use those giant concrete mixers. Suppose maybe back then they had concrete mixers but they operated them by humans.

I don't know much about construction, so ignore me if my post makes no sense.

Yes, it looks really like..their compound must have been heavy nearly as concrete?

Uploaded with ImageShack.us






The other theory was about the usage of a plant that weakened, softened the stone..

Originally posted by lostinspace
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

One of the links you posted on the church of St. George showed a painting of George slaying a dragon. I didn’t know this was the same George WarminIndy and I were talking about earlier. Interesting connection of thoughts.

Dragons (Cough ) Reptilians ( Maybe ) kinda makes sense The same as the One -you know -that
were convenienced Eve to pick that sacred Fruit known to some as the Apple and what else !

Dont forget Quetzalcoatl !
en.wikipedia.org...

Most Mesoamerican beliefs included cycles of suns. Usually, our current time was considered the fifth sun, the previous four having been destroyed by flood, fire and the like. Quetzalcoatl went to Mictlan, the underworld, and created fifth-world mankind from the bones of the previous races (with the help of Chihuacoatl), using his own blood, from a wound in his penis, to imbue the bones with new life.

Photos of Church of St George
www.galenfrysinger.com...

Here’s another interesting comment from the book I have on Lalibela.
“The rock from which the churches of Lalibela were hewn is a red volcanic tuff common throughout the mountains of Ethiopia. This material is relatively easy to carve-but while European builders could correct their errors, in Lalibela a surveying miscalculation or a moment of carelessness might have ruined a whole church.” - African Kingdoms by Basil Davidson

as to same as Tiahuanaco / Puma Punku

as Lalibela was made (Carved) from a ADZE ! ?? as I too Highly Doubt that theory as there int much Errors
as the Errors that ive seen in places of Peru, Bolivia are Errors you would see when you see in Masonry Work
from pressing a mold forming Tool (like a cookie cutter ) into Soft Material (stone) that is slightly in a angle ( a Little Off Tilt )

Good job finding the joining copper pins in both civilizations.

Thanks when i saw the church of St George i saw similarity's then i start to see other similar patterns
in sites of Ethiopia as to Pre Colombian as for St George I dont think it was Originally a Church from the Start

I don’t believe these churches were originally built for Christianity. They had to have been built by an earlier civilization that also venerated the cross. The Mayans held the symbol of the cross in high regard and it wasn’t because of Jesus. It’s much more plausible that the original inhabitants converted to Christianity during the reign of Lalibela. The king is just giving himself and his newly found god the credit for making the preexisting buildings.

The Cross symbol did not start with Christianity
just as the Sun Symbol In India ,China ,Africa and The America's within Ancient Sites around the World
also Known as the Swastika

In the myth of St. George and the Dragon, St. George would only slay the dragon if the people converted to Christianity. I wonder if the place of Silene “in Libya“ (where the dragon was living) is really talking about the original location of Lalibela or Axum?

As it was repeated around the globe the First Inquisition let alone Sacrifice to a
Serpent Man Beast in pre Columbia

Back to Puma Punku

It seems to be the remains of a great wharf and a massive, four-part, now collapsed building, and this makes eminent sense for Lake Titicaca long ago lapped upon the shores of Tiahuanaco city, now inland from the lake twelve miles. One of the construction blocks from which the pier was fashioned weighs an estimated 440 tons (equal to nearly 600 full-size cars) and several other blocks are between 100 and 150 tons. The quarry for these giant blocks was on the western shore of Titicaca, some ten miles away. There is no known technology in the ancient Andean world that could have transported stones of such massive weight and size. The Andean people of 500 AD, with their simple reed boats, could certainly not have moved them.

www.world-mysteries.com...

This civilization had some technology better than the wheel.

They I would tend to believe The Ruins were not mad by the Aboriginal Native People of Pre Columbia
for Moving & Rising the Rocks when you think of Levelers and Towers to Raise the 440 ton stones
a Higher Technology then we can think of Unless you go into the Magic Realm of Hocus Pocus Sorcery
and People with Super Human Strength ( like Super Man ) Aka like Angels , Or Humanoid Aliens (Outlander Movie) or Highly Advanced Civilized Humans that was known to some as Alantians
or Those Known mythical Gods of this planet Earth

Here is a Thought if you Compare Mars! and if We Humans Go on Mars Terraform & Adapt to Our living Condition Slightly with a Breathable Atmosphere and Mars has a Less Density of Gravity then on Earth !
We would be able to Would be Able to Lift Twice /Double Our weight on Mars Think of if Our Moon or say the Size of Our Moon with a Earthen Atmosphere We Modern Homo Sapiens would be consider Gods with Super Human Strength if you think that logic ! and if Human Aliens with Technology that is thousands of years more then Earthen Humans ! that Colonized here at One point of time that came from a Planet Two Times the Size of Our Earth! Then I would Say Yes it could be possible Moving Stone

There has to be something we are missing. Imagine the large Axum Obelisk’s construction. Did they create really tall scaffolding to finish the sides or did they carve it on the ground? If they carved it on the ground then how did they flip it over to do the underside without destroying the finished sides?

Good Question

My Guess Tunneling under the ground when it was on the Ground to Form/Shape what is needed
but how it was moved and Raised is a big question made from Primitive people is Unlikely

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

Excellent contributions. Now can we figure out how they moved them after?

Since many of the metal pins/ties are found on the vertical and not just the horizontal

Thats the big mystery is How with out going into the Magical Sorcery or Aliens did it Theory of Anomalies !

Your Right about the Pins / Brackets as they were laid down or were pressed into a Soft State Stone
that you could of Shape Mold like Play-Doh

Now I want to play with my kids & My Old Vintage play-doh extrusion set ! Nostalgia Thanks ATS !







OK People Ive Solved the Mysteries of how Tiahuananco & Puma Punku was made !
An Alien Kid Used his Play - Doh Fun Factory Set & Play Doh Lego making Set Aeons Ago...



ohh as someone Mentioned about dragons flying serpents well its NOT only in Europe , Africa Ethiopia & China its in Pre Columbia too The Names Viracocha / Kukulkan / Quetzalcoatl maybe the same being

Viracocha / Kukulkan / Quetzalcoatl
www.the-truth-seekers.org...