Amendment 2: - Right to Bear Arms DAMN RIGHT! Get over it!

Wouldn't it be easier for an individual not to break into a person's house and confront
someone with or without a firearm?
Wouldn't be better for all around-the-world that a person didn't attempt to ram his
beliefs down another's throat by toting a gun?
Wouldn't it become a nicer world if a firearm was kept just for the off-chance one
of the above occurred?

But above is just wishful thinking, and as said before... who can you REALLY rely
on when the fit hits the...?

Fix the world first and then we can lower the pistols.

i wish the Brits where allowed guns, we can't even carry knifes

if we did, i would blast a few folks i didnt like to the stone age

seriously........you got a gun held to you and you still think everyone should be allowed a gun? if that was the case where i stayed, we all would be dead. That is the truth. We get 4 years now for carrying a knife because we are the murder capital of europe without any guns. Just good old alcohol and blades.

I have never understood why americans love guns so much, you are the only western culture to accept this so much, no wonder something like 50,000 deaths a year by folk just shooting folk? WTF?

but if everyone is carrying a gun, then that way you will be safe, right?

Originally posted by p00hbear
As a Brit member I'm intregued by the whole US gun bearing issue, I don't know anyone who own's a gun and my guess is that 99% of brits don't want to own firearms.

The questions i would like answered are:

When is it legal to fire a weapon with intent to kill?

Can you fire at someone for illegally entering a property?

Is there any control over the storage of guns and ammo?

p00hbear

The answers vary from state to state. I will answer for my state as best I can. I will start with the easy one first.

There is a safe storage law. You must store your weapon in a way that no unautorized person or minor can get to it easily. That means if you are storing a weapon it should be at the very least equiped with a trigger lock. A locked closet, gun safe, or other locked container is preferred.

When a gun is in use the law does not apply. If you are hunting the trigger does not have to be locked. If you have a permit for concealed carry keeping the gun out of sight and in a holster is good enough. You don't need to lock it away at all times.

There is no storage law for ammo that I am aware of.

In North Carolina you can use lethal force to stop a threat when you are in imminent fear of death, great bodily injury (permanent and irreperable damage), or sexual assault. The facts and circumstances prompting the belief (that force was necessary) must be enough to cause another person of ordinary firmness to believe lethal force was necessary to prevent said threat.

If a citizen is found to be an agressor voluntarily provoking the conflict, or uses excessive force, they can be convicted of voluntary manslaughter even though the use of deadly force complied with other requirements. The citizen that provoked the fight can only avoid the charge after using lethal force if he tried to withdraw from the fight. It is only considerred an attempt to withdraw if it is verbalized to the person you are in confrontation with.

You can only use lethal force in defense of others if the person you are defending was not a voluntary instigator and did not provoke the situation. You also must restrain from using excessive force. Simple assault can not be answered with lethal force.

The answer for illegally entering property is actually two tiered. You can not use lethal force against a trespasser in your yard. It is not allowed unless they do something that causes imminent fear as outlined above.

If someone forcibly enters your home, business, or car that is a different issue. If the person has no legal right to be there, is not a cop or bail enforcement agent carrying out their duties, or does not have a minor child they are legally entitled to see on the premises, they are considerred to be forcing entry to commit a felony of violence. In that case you are not legally required to retreat. You are also allowed to use lethal force. As I understand it that will be the new law as of 12-21-11.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

And i think it's rude to start a thread about guns, so soon after a hundred families have been devastated by a man who used guns to massacre children.

My point stands. We KNOW you can bear arms, we know this....

On that same day (accounting for the decrease in the crime rate) about 475 women were protected from sexual assault by a gun. Nearly 1,000 Americans defended their life that day. So, maybe it is time we celebrate the lifes preserved and the souls kept whole by guns.

My sympathies go out to anyone that has lost a loved one to violence any where. I only hope that they learn only they are responsible for their own safety. I pray that they find peace and a way to move own. I know they will never heal completely or get back to normal. I just hope they find a way to keep living with some level of comfort and joy.

I'm not going to stop talking about gund though. I'm not going to stop carrying my gun either.

Originally posted by thedarktower
i wish the Brits where allowed guns, we can't even carry knifes

if we did, i would blast a few folks i didnt like to the stone age

Maybe this is why you have a tough time understanding our culture with guns. It would be illegal for me to just go out and shoot people just because I dislike them. Self Defense and shooting another because I simply do not like them are ideas that are world's apart from one another.

seriously........you got a gun held to you and you still think everyone should be allowed a gun? if that was the case where i stayed, we all would be dead. That is the truth. We get 4 years now for carrying a knife because we are the murder capital of europe without any guns. Just good old alcohol and blades.

I have never understood why americans love guns so much, you are the only western culture to accept this so much, no wonder something like 50,000 deaths a year by folk just shooting folk? WTF?

but if everyone is carrying a gun, then that way you will be safe, right?

Well you are not permitted to carry knives correct? Has that law stopped people from being stabbed? If memory serves me correctly it was not too long ago that we were seeing threads here on ATS about an explosion in knife violence in the U.K.

It matters not where you live. There are still a few universal truths. One of these truths is that real criminals look for easy victims and targets of opportunity. If a criminal decides to go out and rob someone, who do you think he will choose to rob... an elderly lady leaving a bank or a young man leaving a bank? Chances are the criminal will select the old lady because she is the easier victim. A young man may put up a fight.

As a 'Brit' member I fully understand and respect The Right To Bear Arms in the US; it is an inherent part of your culture and I'm sure that if I was an American or lived there then I too would probably take full advantage of that Right.
However, it does both amuse and piss me off when Americans constantly blame all of the UK's ill's on us not having that same Right.
First of all, we don't want it; murder statistics would go through the roof.
It is one of the areas where we differ significantly from the US.
Secondly.
We respect your Right To Bear Arms, please respect our right not to.

reply to post by chuckk

When you decide to shoot (the situation meets the criteria for use of deadly force) you always shoot with intent to kill, and keep shooting until they are dead.

No you shoot to stop the threat and you stop when the threat stops. Otherwise it is called manslaughter and you can still pull life in jail. If an attacker throws his gun down and runs away, stop shooting. If the atacker is no longer able to fight back you must stop. If you don't it is excessive force and you face criminal prosecution and civil liability.

Once you suspect a break-in, go to a defensive position within your home (at the head of the stairs to yoru bedrooms-protect your family and call the Police. Do not go on a search and destroy mission or you might get killed. Let them mess up the other part of the home or steal, it's not worth your life. Do not shoot them in the back on the way out. It could simply be you daughter's boyfriend sneaking into the home or your daughter sneaking out (very common).

This is pretty good advice for the most part. I would try to get to my kid, but it all dpends on the lay out of your home.

Just got to ask a few questions...

I've heard the argument that guns are used to protect US citizens from their government.

First off does anybody really believe that small arms can protect them against the most technologically advanced forces on the planet?

Second why would you need to be protected against the government you voted for? Does it mean that you don't support democracy? I read that some of you talk about others around the world rising up also against their government as well - is rising against the government a communist revolution against democracy? What kind of situation do you think would happen after getting rid of government?

Third 'Cars kill people', in all these threads somebody says this. Do those people know that cars are created to transport? Should we ban crossing the street, as its more dangerous than driving a car?

There are more questions but these are just to get started.

Originally posted by Freeborn
As a 'Brit' member I fully understand and respect The Right To Bear Arms in the US; it is an inherent part of your culture and I'm sure that if I was an American or lived there then I too would probably take full advantage of that Right.
However, it does both amuse and piss me off when Americans constantly blame all of the UK's ill's on us not having that same Right.
First of all, we don't want it; murder statistics would go through the roof.
It is one of the areas where we differ significantly from the US.
Secondly.
We respect your Right To Bear Arms, please respect our right not to.

We get the same here (on this forum) from Americans- 'you've been disarmed, when are you going to stand up?' its like..er, I dont see any of you guys standing up against the shonkiest government in the western world and we sure as # dont want to end up with a gun problem like you.

We got it ages ago- Americans love weapons, blowing stuff up is like a recreational pastime. lol (sorry Slayer!)

do you guys fear the govt?

they don't question their right when they shoot you down... you shouldn't question yours...

reply to post by freethinker123


Small arms are used to make head way untill the professionals arive. The French helped us when the first revolution. We are helping the Libyans. It seems to be the way these things work most often.

In Vietnam a small band of dedicated men held off America long enough for Russia and China to help out. China and the USSR poured hundreds of millions in to North Vietnam. They sent mercenaries and trainers by the train load. It allowed the NV to hold out long enough for America to get tired and withdraw.

There are a lot of examples of these types of events.

Cars and guns should both stay legal. Guns were used fo hunting and self defense in America before they were used to wage a revolution. They were built for battle and adapted to serve daily life in a useful way.

Originally posted by p00hbear
As a Brit member I'm intregued by the whole US gun bearing issue, I don't know anyone who own's a gun and my guess is that 99% of brits don't want to own firearms.

I beg to differ. I want to own firearms and I'm not even a country bumpkin. I guarantee at least 50% of rural Englanders want to own guns, and many do (just not the daily carrying kind).

EDIT: Actually, thinking about it. There are 2 reasons for the 2nd Amendment. 1) self-defense or the defense of others. 2) Recourse against a rogue government.

The second reason concerns me more than the first. So I think countries like Switzerland have the best happy medium. Each citizen has a firearm locked up at home in case of a national emergency. In this way those guns could be used en masse to put a rogue government back in its place, or to defend against a pre-empted invasion of the country.

reply to post by Cythraul


But in the UK it would just be used to shoot some idiot who 'just had a go at our lass' on a Saturday night in the kebab shop.

Those that need / want guns for professional or recreational purposes can get them by following the perfectly reasonable legal process of doing so.
We don't need or want easier access to guns or relaxing of the current laws.

The US is a completely different scenario; gun culture is ingrained in them, it is a part of the national psyche.

reply to post by MikeNice81


"Small arms are used to make head way untill the professionals arive. The French helped us when the first revolution. We are helping the Libyans. It seems to be the way these things work most often."

I don't understand this. Who are the professionals? If the (US) government waged war against certain US citizens the professionals would be under their control. With the Vietnam analogy you are suggesting that foreign governments would send support to US citizens under attack from their government? And I can't see how you can compare the US military with all of its technology today with that of a battlefield situation in a far away country in the 1960 - 1975 period.

Why by the way do you need weapons against your own elected government? All countries of the world have problems with governments, but is your government the worst one in the world so people must be armed to try to stop them coming to kill you?

"Cars and guns should both stay legal. Guns were used fo hunting and self defense in America before they were used to wage a revolution. They were built for battle and adapted to serve daily life in a useful way."

You are saying that guns were created to hunt? Thats the first I heard of it. The point of their being to created for self defence is debatable surely. Much more likely they were created as an offensive weapon. Again if cars should stay legal (its silly to even write it really!) what is the point of people comparing guns to cars? Cars are used to transport people around.

reply to post by Freeborn


Exactly, most people in the UK don't want guns and don't need them. It's all fair and well having the right to bare arms and protect yourself, but it doesn't always benefit society. Take the recent shooting spree in Texas where 6 people were gunned down at an ice rink. Having the right to bare arms didn't save these poor sods.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Then there's the shooting at a another birthday party near Apopka in Central Florida, where 9 people were wouded. Again having the right to bare arms didn't help these poor sods. We don't need guns and don't want them.

People fail to realize that the second amendment was made specifically to keep the government from becoming dictators. They are supposed to represent the people, not control the people as they are doing now. The United states of America through the constitution is known as the land of the free.


without the constitution it would be known as the land of the slaves. Sounds harsh doesn't it? However the words ring true when you see the things happening today. I love the U.S of what it stood for, My favorite historical figures involve benjamin franklin , thomas jefferson up to JFK, because they had the best intentions for the people.

What people also do not realize is that the U.S has already fallen, infiltrated by the british. Do you honestly believe that the british would have given up after the U.S declared it's independance? They found a way, a back door and quite frankly became the most effective stealth invasion that barely costed blood shed. Guess what that method was.

Private Banks.


I find it mind boggling that people fail to understand this simple fact. The only explaination I can give as to why people are skeptics on this, is that, either they are in denial OR they are favoring the events and try to spread misinformation. I call these disinfo agents.

I think if we want to live in a weapons free world EVERYONE should be disarmed. It's all about equality and the politicians should realize this fact.

A country filled with people walking around carrying semi-automatics and an array of other lead spewing weapons is one reason why a lot people around the world look at the U.S. in disbelief, I understand that cops in your country are almost like Nazi death squads and criminal gangs are like mini-armies but as much as we think we're advanced, we are barely out of the jungle on this planet. Less guns does mean less murders, however it's really too late to save the U.S. in that respect imo and I realise a lot of you guys like being cowboys and all. I hope you all enjoy your own O.K Coral, when it happens.

reply to post by thedarktower


I agree. Let's face it, we are already living in a pressure cooker society & people these days are more angry than ever and therefore tend to lose their cool too easily and if someone has a gun within easy reach, then they are more likely to use it and will end up wounding or killing someone, or worse, it will turn into a massacre. You can keep your guns.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by neo96

 

Hilarity?

Ghandi didn't use a weapon.

First of all ghandi was not defending him self in the same sence that this thread was about. And since you bring it up tell ya what go ahead and try to effect change in todays world by starving your self, more food for the thinking people. Anyway you seem to miss the point of the thread it was not a pissing contest. It was a notice to other humans that their was yet another attempt to strip away our human right to self defence wich is a right of all humans no matter what their gov or uptight control freaks say. If you dont want to read a thread on this topic why click on it? Unless you have another motive.

Oh i see someone mentioned UK, so let's see:
About the murder's rate and gun violence:
www.dailymail.co.uk...
news.bbc.co.uk...

That's pretty sick:


Star Trek blade seized
www.thesun.co.uk...

Thief who broke into widow's home wants HER jailed because she had antique gun under her bed
link to article




I wouldn't risk to wander in some districts of London, especially the one with aggressive immigrants, unless i could have a M16 hanging on my arm.