I've Cracked The Code Of The Zodiac Killer

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Wyn Hawks

 

I absolutely agree that the stats may be misleading. However, they have to be considered as it is what we have to work with. Not a ending place; but, part of the analysis.

...agreed... was just pointing out that many people never consider that the spectrum of serial killers is as diverse as humanity is...

Originally posted by AQuestion
As for Zodiac, I believe he either died in the war or is still alive.

...i'd be more inclined to give credence to he got his brains scrambled in nam than he got killed in nam...

Originally posted by AQuestion
He kept items from the people he killed and I believe he would want them found when he died.

...why do you believe that?... is it the generalization that serial killers want to be caught or lust for notoriety?...

...the code cracker in the op seems to believe that generalization and thats why i think his crack stinks...

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Dear Wyn Hawks,

We know that Zodiac kept items belonging to the victim because he included some of Mr. Stine's shirt along with a couple of letters. It is believed that he retained over a hundred square inches of his shirt (this is based on how much of his shirt was left). It is not uncommon for some serial killers to keep "trophies", BTK kept many and they were later discovered. It is believed that they keep a "souvenir" in order to relive the killing. This is not universal; but, it is also not uncommon.

If I had to guess (and that is all it is), Zodiac kept the keys. On more than one occasion Zodiac took the keys, clearly he did not use them to drive the cars; therefore, we must ask why he took them in the first place. My best guess is that he had a thing about keys or cars. Let us consider this also that the first two confirmed shootings involved cars at lovers lane and if we consider the Bates case, it begins with her car being disabled. Clearly the Stine killing also involved cars and keys. In regards to the third verified Zodiac killing, he went back and wrote on the victims car the date of the shooting. In all of the attacks cars played a prominent role.

I have never read or heard this aspect discussed before and had not considered it myself until after reading your last post; but, it does make some sense.

I think Christopher Farmer truly cracked the Zodiac codes. His research concludes that the writer of some Zodiac Killer books, Gareth Penn, is the true Zodiac Killer.

www.opordanalytical.com...

reply to post by AQuestion


...maybe he took the keys as a precaution in case the victims werent dead - so, they couldnt drive off and give the cops info that might lead to his arrest...

...or maybe you're right and he had a thang for keys... maybe his parents locked him in a closet and made him listen to sinatra music while one of them jingled their keys...

...i wish someone would pay me to sit around and speculate... i could really enjoy that job...

reply to post by Supernatural


Dear Supernatural,

I just read through the complete linked paper. I am not good with cyphers or codes, I am not convinced by what this person wrote. As I had never read this article before I wish to thank you for including it for the rest of us to read. For my part, I will trust in what can be proven and that includes DNA and finger and palm prints. If this person was a suspect then I will assume (till I hear otherwise) that his prints were matched and nothing was found.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Dear Wyn Hawks,

Actually, it is my day off and I am listening to music and relaxing. As for the keys, he shot Stine in the back of the head twice on a public street and then calmly walked away (according to three witnesses). He wasn't worried that Stine was alive or driving anywhere. He was always reported as being very calm. That is another point that needs to be considered. Unlike most serial killers, Zodiac never seemed to stick around long, quick kills and no emotion. This is a very detached and calculating individual unlike Ted Bundy or Dahmer or even BTK (who was calm in execution; but, euphoric in his actions).

Zodiac's actions seem more in line with a hitman than a serial killer. It is funny, as the thread continues more oddities come to mind. And I don't think he was a paid killer, his cavalier approach to killing merely resembles one. Without going into great detail, as I mentioned before my father was in law enforcement. One of the people he had in custody was a hitman for the mafia. I remember that the man said that killing someone was the same to him as stepping on a cockroach (fortunately for us all, the man was eventually killed by his own). Zodiac's actions seem the same, as if they came from the same mindset. Perhaps his comments regarding "The Most Dangerous Game" were accurate, perhaps it was just a thing to him with little meaning other than the fact that he could and get away with it.

Well, so much for my weekend!

I would give you all a star if I could, some very good posts in this thread. I'm amazed by some of these things I'm learning.

I hope there is a conclusive answer either way.

I have a friend who was in the parking lot/park a few minutes before the first known killing,in Vallejo...he was classmates with the victims...he and a bud were smokng weed a few spots down from the kill site and left about 10 minutes beofre the projected time...anytime he thinks about it,he gets the shakes because Zodiac was there watching and waiting for his chance....talk about close calls....and his references to mathmathics(radian angles) puts the unibomber in the pic,who was at Berkley at the time..and most code people are mathmaticians...this guy will always have a following because he will never be identified

Originally posted by Homedawg
I have a friend who was in the parking lot/park a few minutes before the first known killing,in Vallejo...he was classmates with the victims...he and a bud were smokng weed a few spots down from the kill site and left about 10 minutes beofre the projected time...anytime he thinks about it,he gets the shakes because Zodiac was there watching and waiting for his chance....talk about close calls....and his references to mathmathics(radian angles) puts the unibomber in the pic,who was at Berkley at the time..and most code people are mathmaticians...this guy will always have a following because he will never be identified

edit on 7/22/2011 by Homedawg because: sp

Dear Homedawg,

I am assuming you are talking about the Lake Herman Road attack which actually was not in Vallejo; but, was in Benicia close by. The victims were high school students Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday. It mentions that the area was sort of a Lover's Lane or makeout spot for the kids in the area. Apparently there was a concert at the local high school (which they were to attend and chose not to). Did your friend notice anything or can he tell us anything about how the area was used. I would guess that your friend would be close to 60 years old now if he were in High School in 1968.

As for the unibomber, he is absolutely not Zodiac. They have his DNA and prints and that lead turned up dead wrong. "Ted" Kaczynski was not a random serial killer, he was protesting technology, I would consider him more of a terrorist. As for radians, it is a pretty simple way of measuring angles and does not require any advanced math. Be well and let us know what your friend has to say.

Keith is 61 this year..and HE is from Vallejo...and yes,it was a "Lovers Lane"...I met him in 79 and that area was a paved circular drive park in the day time....was lined with hanging Eculyptus trees and widely separated pole type lamps....he didnt see or hear anything...it happened after he left and they were buzzed and had no idea that they were being watched or that death was near.......as for Kazinsky I didnt say he was...because of the code/math thing and the radian angle part(the killings all took place on an exact radian angle(56 or 7 1/2 deg I think) off some mountain out there,Devils Mtn?....it supposed to have occult signficance..and he (Tim)was a total nutter and was there and a math person is all i was saying...his name came up several times...and only math people or engineers use radian angles...its very specialized...Im from a totally diff part of the country and its been a long time since I saw Keith or read anything on this....I remember seeing his reaction to a book about it and us talking about it on watch at night is all....this guy beat the CIA code computers...I think the "code" never said anything at all and he was just making fools of everyone....whoever the guy was,he was a smart man...just evil...remember the open(Uncoded) letter the night he killed the cab driver....the cops saw someone walking about a block away and he wote that it was him...thats as close as they ever got...they will never know for sure who it was

reply to post by Homedawg


Dear Homedawg,

Like you I am not convinced the code is meaningful, in fact, if it ever broken I don't expect to get anymore from it then they did from the others. Sorry if I misunderstood your Vallejo reference, no offense intended. As for radians, pretty standard in most math. From what I have read it was the young couple's first date, I can only imagine how sad it must have been for their friends and family. Has your friend said anything about the young couple or if they had any enemies that he knew of (though it seems unlikely that a 35 to 45 year old would have known and killed them).

reply to post by AQuestion
He only commented that he knew them and was parked a few slots away from them on the overlook....and that they left a few minutes before the time projected to have happened...they didnt have any enemies....or at least he never said or commented and I think he would have....we had a lot of time for long talks...you talk about a lot of stuff on night watch....it made a mark on his life for sure....few people have that close a call with such an infamous event or such a near death experience...one wonders if that was truly his first kill,or what drew him there or if it was random or selected...or how long he lay in wait....the list of possible questions is endless....What if the couple had driven away first?Would he have chosen Keith and his bud instead?..Im sure thats what haunted Keith for so many years....Ill have to reread the writings on this guy...thinking about it has gotten me interested...

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Wyn Hawks

 

he shot Stine in the back of the head twice on a public street and then calmly walked away (according to three witnesses). He wasn't worried that Stine was alive or driving anywhere.

...i see your point about the key thang but we can only presume that he was really calm and not worried...

Originally posted by AQuestion
He was always reported as being very calm. That is another point that needs to be considered. Unlike most serial killers, Zodiac never seemed to stick around long, quick kills and no emotion. This is a very detached and calculating individual unlike Ted Bundy or Dahmer or even BTK (who was calm in execution; but, euphoric in his actions).

...i think ted was very calculating...

Originally posted by AQuestion
my father was in law enforcement. One of the people he had in custody was a hitman for the mafia. I remember that the man said that killing someone was the same to him as stepping on a cockroach

...i've heard leos and soldiers say the exact same thing and society didnt consider them to be dangerous loons - quite the contrary, they were heros...

...right or wrong, the justification comes down to which side of the law the remorseless killer is on...

Originally posted by AQuestion
Zodiac's actions seem the same, as if they came from the same mindset. Perhaps his comments regarding "The Most Dangerous Game" were accurate, perhaps it was just a thing to him with little meaning other than the fact that he could and get away with it.

...it could be that - or - it could be that he had a very strong emotional attachment to his kills but felt that the attachment was unmanly, so he had to denigrate it...

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Dear Wyn Hawks,

I certainly am not trying to imply that I know that he had a thing about keys, it was just something that I remembered he kept and it seemed strange. As for Bundy, he was cold and calculating to be sure; but, his kill scenes were extreme, that is when he let all of his rage out. Zodiac never exhibited rage in his planning or execution.

As for government killers, yeah, they are very cold and calculating also; but, they always go back to their purpose as a justification. Zodiac's justification is unclear, how did he justify his actions in his mind. People who do such things for the government usually justify it by saying that they were protecting us from the bad people.

Zodiac writes that he was collecting souls for the afterlife, I don't know that I believe him; but, it is possible that was what he believed. Personally I believe he didn't do well with the ladies and this was his revenge on them. Someone, I don't remember who, hypothesized that he finally found a companion and stopped. I don't know that I think that is the most likely scenerio; but, it is possible. I still think that he was a soldier, probably in the Navy who shipped out to Vietnam. It should be noted that Anton LaVey did have the Church of Satan in San Francisco and that one of it's members, was Lt. Col. Michael Aquino who worked out of the Presidio and later went on to start the Temple of Set. There was an active coven in San Francisco on it's military base at the time of the murders is my point. Having said that, I have never read anything that would implicate either of those people in the Zodiac murders. More of a question of people that they turned down from joining.

Sorry, just thought of something. If you were a detective working on the "Zodiac" case in San Francisco at the time, wouldn't you contact LaVey who was in the same town and ask him about the possible zodiac or satanic purposes behind the crimes? I would have. I would love to know if his daughter knows. LaVey had even worked for three years for the SFPD as a photographer. Of course they would have spoke to him. He could have turned them down; but, he would have spoke to them. Heck, he probably would have contacted the people he knew in the force. Lets face it, he had a lot of enemies opening the Church of Satan back then.

If any ATS members read this and know Karla LaVey, I would love to know if she knows if her father was ever contacted by the SFPD about the killings. I believe she is back in San Francisco doing a radio show. Maybe someone in the area can ask her.

He APPEARED to be calm....thats another answer we will never know unless we find some hidden book of his writings,like Hemmingways lost suitcase of manuscripts in Paris at the train station....lots of peoiple who kill have control of their emotions...and just because they SAY they were as cool as ice,only they know if their pulse changed when they killed..saying that enhances their persona...that doesnt make it so

reply to post by Homedawg


Dear Homedawg,

Let me rephrase. It takes a lot to shoot someone, especially for the first time. It takes a lot out of us physically to be in a fight. High conflict situations shake most people, their voices cracks, they shake, lots of little things, you see this when you play tournament poker or if you are confronted by a need to make an immediate choice with severe consequences and no firm knowledge of the right answer. To maintain calm during these types of events is learned.

Serial killers tend to fall into a few categories, they do it for the planning, for the emotional response, for the control aspect, because they hate a particular group and for the fantasy. Some are sexual and some are not. Zodiac clearly was not. The vast majority of serial killers attach a sexual fantasy to their actions, Zodiac may be the only one I can think of (other than those who killed for money) that did not. I don't remember now, I know that Jack the Ripper killed prostitutes, does anyone know if he ever slept with any of them before he killed them. I would like to know that answer.

Nobody can say for certain that they know who Zodiac is without scientific proof....

My blog at www.zodiackillernorth.blogspot.com points out much circumstantial evidence, but yet compelling details that point the person who bound, raped and tortued my child as possibly being the Zodiac Killer.

I have noted that someone here said that he never raped or tortued anyone, but I can assure you he most certainly did so to my child... he bound her, even hog tied her, put live spiders on her face, duct taped her eyes open and stuck her eyelide with a pin, he anally raped her to keep her hymen intact... and I have audio of my child describing extremely graphic and horrific details of murder.

There is medical documentation from child psychiatrity supporting her abuse and claims to murder and cannibalism... many serial killers "Evolve", and eventually cannibalize their victims in order to gain superior control over their victim... it is all too much for me to say here, but some of the compelling details including this person bearing an uncanny resemblance to the age progressed composite of Zodiac and very similar handwriting are all on my blog. There is much more to this story than posted. MUCH MORE, and it is viable that someone who killed south of the border continued killing north of the border same time that Zodiac went out of site and 100's of women began to dissapper in BC, Canada over the past 40 years...

This will show what I am talkiing about, but again there is much, much more to this story...
Zodiac Killer Alive & Killing in Canada for 40 Years?: Age Progressed Composite of Zodiac Still Matches BC Suspect t.co...

Eye Witness Account of Possible Chevy Impala Zodiac Drove at Lake Herman Appears to Match BC Composite t.co...

Actual Van Likely used to Stalk and Pick up Women who Went Missing in BC..... t.co...

Wallet That May Belong To a BC Missing Woman. PI has Proven Protein Behind Laminate... t.co...

First "Used", Women's Wallet Given to Me by BC Serial Killer Suspect... t.co...

Used Woman's Coat Given to Me by BC Serial Killer Suspect ... t.co...

Zodiac's "My Name is.....", Cipher Solved??? Patterning in Cipher is Viable Match to BC Suspect's Name t.co...

"Gallus (kokorasgermanikos)", BC Suspect's Email Decoded: "Zodiac Taurus, High Executioner, Underworld Beast"... t.co...

Taunting Letters Left at Vancouver Bus Stops Appear to Match Zodiac & BC Serial Killer Suspect's Writing t.co...

Writing Left on Car Door at David Farraday & Betty Jensen's Murder Bears Striking Similarities to BC Suspect's Writing t.co...

New Improved Comparrisons... More Handwriting Appears to Match Zodiac Killer t.co...

Zodiac & BC Serial Killer Suspect BOTH use Encircling of Words in Red Ink Inside Taunting Cards t.co...

Apparent Hidden Clues in Birthday Cards, & Example of Peculiar Thoughts & Phrasing Similar to Zodiac's Style t.co...

"Hwy of Tears" Era Began During Zodiac's Reign of Terror. Map Shows Bodies Circle Suspect's Family Home and Herman Lake t.co...

Zodiac Claims Victims at Lake Herman, CA..... Highway of Tears Victims Found Near Herman Lake, BC Over 40 Year Period t.co...

Possible Link Between Lake Herman Road & Location off Highway of Tears Where Suspect Built Home with His Father t.co...

1974 Composite Matches BC Serial Killer Suspect.... Colleen McMillan Found Practically in Suspect's Backyard t.co...

The Death Van.... Suspect REPEATEDLY Drives Van up Hwy of Tears With Chains Hanging from Ceiling Behind Passenger Seat t.co...

Another Vehicle Suspect Drove up Hwy of Tears with my Child in It.... DOES ANYONE RECOGNIZE FROM 1997/1998? PLEASE HELP t.co...

Child Victim Describes Woman's Arm Being Roatated All The Way Around & Teeth Being Pulled in Torture Murder t.co...

Residential Psychiatric Care of Child Confirms Sexual Abuse & Themes of Violence & Dismemberments in Therapy t.co...

Child Draws Skinned Female Genitalia Supposed Vegetarian Ate. Perp Lives 2.6 Miles from Picton Pig Farm; RCMP Don't Care t.co...

2nd Pic of Meat Shows Bite Marks. Child Very Matter of Factly Says "This One was Younger"...Says Belly Button was Chewy t.co...

1st Children's Hospital Report Supports Abuse of Child & States Depictions of Murder & Cannibalism NOT Illness or Lies t.co...

From Lake Herman, CA to Herman Lake BC, Equal Distances from Border... BC Suspect Lives in Middle of Killing Grounds t.co...

Watch Found Spattered in Paint at Cheri Jo Bates Murder Consistant with Watch BC Suspect Wore & His Work in Carpentry t.co...

Zodiac Used Pen Light to Scope Victims in Dark...BC Serial Killer Suspect Always Carried a Pen Light in Shirt Pocket t.co...

Zodiac Killer Referenced Language from BC Suspect's Native Land in North Germany During WWII... t.co...

German Luftwaffe from N.azi Aircraft Resembles Zodiac's Crosshair Symbol t.co...

Zodiac Killer Alive & Killing in Canada for 40 Years?: Significant Event Indicates Why Suspect Named Himself Zodiac?... t.co...

A Synopsis of a Sadistic Psychopath who Bound, Raped & Tortured my Child... Child Desribes Murders & Cannibalism... ...t.co...

Age Progressed Composite of Zodiac Bears Uncanny Resemblance to BC Serial Killer Suspect t.co...

1ST IN SERIES OF VANCOUVER VICTIM RESEMBLANCES: Elaine Allenbach Missing Since March 1986, 1.5 Yrs After I Met Suspect t.co...

2nd IN SERIES OF VANCOUVER VICTIM RESEMBLANCES: Catherine Gonzalez Missing Since March 1995 t.co...

3RD IN VANCOUVER VICTIM RESEMBLANCES: Missing Person Sheila Catherine Egan... t.co...

4th IN SERIES OF VANCOUVER VICTIM RESEMBLANCES: Missing Person Stephanie Marie Lane... t.co...

5th IN SERIES OF VANCOUVER VICTIM RESEMBLANCES: Missing Person Teressa Louise Tariff... t.co...

It's About Justice & Peace for Families. WHY RCMP CONTINUALLY IGNORE TIPS FROM PUBLIC? PICTON PROVES THIS DOES HAPPEN t.co...

RCMP REPEATEDLY DISMISS PUBLIC TIPS CAUSING WOMEN TO BE CONTINUALLY MURDERED: A Letter to the RCMP & the VPD t.co...

Zodiac Killer Alive & Killing in Canada for 40 Years?: Setting the Record Straight.... Answering Questions & Dispelli... t.co...

Zodiac Killer Alive & Killing in Canada for 40 Years?: Answer to Viewer Question "Why not Go to the Police?"... t.co...

reply to post by AQuestion


There is no evidence that The Ripper coupled with the whores...on the other hand,if it was Prince Eddie or Lord Churchill,he had The Syph,"brain fever" in the vernacular of the times......both had a fondess for hookers...Ive been a cop for over 20 years and was a soldier for 8...there are all kinds of killers and no one but they TRULY know the motives and reactions....what they tell and what is true is based on how they see themselves and how they want themselves portrayed....and who knows if they really know the whys and hows....they are usually of high intelligence(the serial killers) and are capable of deluding themselves....I deal with he street variety mostly...impluse or emotional life-takers...passions rule them,not intellect

reply to post by Homedawg


Dear Homedawg,

That sort of touches on one of my points. Most people act emotional in these type of situations even Serial Killers (at least once they have their victim under their control). Zodiac never sought to keep the victims contained (yes I know he tied up two); but the restraint was not the issue for him, just a means to an end. Zodiac never ceased acting calm that we are aware of. What is it that Sherlock Holmes said, when you have eliminated all of the probable, you are left with the unlikely or something like that.

As someone in law enforcement, how many that had no material motive, people have you had in custody that could commit such acts with no "payoff" and do it in such an unemotional manner. The only people I know like that were in the intelligence or unusual military. Professionals never flinch; but, it takes years to create them.

reply to post by AQuestion
I agree with you to a point....I still think,basing on what we have to form our opinions are interviews with the ones who were caught and were willing to tell their stories,that we really DONT know....these types are master manipulators and I dont see them stopping just because they got caught....they offer to take police to the body dump sites for the side trips to Burger King and to get out for a day(Henry Lee Lucas)...playing the game....yeah...prob some of them were stone cold,souless shooters..without emotion or empathy for their victims....I agree...but we really dont know what drives them....we just like to think we understand so we can sleep at night knowing that kind of evil is just outside the door