I've Cracked The Code Of The Zodiac Killer

reply to post by Nola213


Dear Nola213,

Thousands of people now know his name, that was not true when the 340 cypher was sent. Zodiac wrote that if the first long cypher was deciphered that it would give his name and it did not. It is hard to believe that Zodiac would have put his real name in any cypher. Zodiac wasn't trying to get caught although he claimed he wanted to be stopped, in fact, he never did meet up with Mel Belli (about the most famous defense attorney in the world at the time). Zodiac lied in his letters even claiming to have killed people that he did not.

What we do know is that Zodiac killed taxi cab driver Stine, left a fingerprint on the car, took part of Mr. Stine's shirt and mailed a piece of it with his letter to Mel Belli. That finger print has never been matched up with any of the police suspects. The FBI was involved and they have a rather large fingerprint database. This implies that it is rather doubtful that Zodiac was ever arrested in California for anything which would result in being fingerprinted.

The things that the police can do now did not exist when Zodiac was active. Zodiac was seen by two police officers and they did not identify Allen. He was seen after he left Stine's taxi as he cut through the Presidio. In his letter Zodiac claimed that he word a disguise; but, he wasn't wearing one (he did not have the costume that he used in other killings). We should wonder why Zodiac moved his killings to San Francisco. My guess is that he was in the Navy and shipping out to Vietnam. For all we know he either dies in the war or was seriously injured and therefore ceased his killings. Most serial killers increase in frequency overtime (BTK being a rare exception) unless caught or killed.

Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by brill

 

He's trapped, trapped in his body and he is begging for someone to come and liberated him. This is a clear example of someone who has their shadow taken over. He sends out messages like this to get people to help him, to free him of his shadow, not something that is easy to do.

Well if Arthur Leigh Allen WAS in fact the Zodiac killer, he has been released. He died in 1992.

reply to post by Nola213


Dear Nola213,

While I think Mr. Voight has done a good job at keeping people looking at the case, I am not and have never been a poster on his site. In fact, I wouldn't have commented on this thread at all except that the "code breaker" used Mr. Allen's name in his solution and I find that highly unlikely.

As for Zodiac's intelligence, I think it is debatable. He clearly had training in some things; but, I think that because he has not been caught we might give him more credit than he deserves. BTK attempted to use letters to confuse the police and had numerous misspellings, in the end it turned out he was a bad speller and not a genius.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Nola213

 

Dear Nola213,

Thousands of people now know his name, that was not true when the 340 cypher was sent. Zodiac wrote that if the first long cypher was deciphered that it would give his name and it did not. .

oh yes, your definitely right about that. I was just saying that now his name is pretty synanomous with the Zodiac Case, so many people know his name, which could sway the decoder, who did the decoding after "Leigh Allen" was a known suspect.

and yes it was sneaky for him not to put his name in the first code like he said. But there still was quite a few Codes to follow, which could possibly contain the Zodiacs real name.

I mean there are some troubling things about Allen when you look into the interview he did. His watch. A Zodiac, with the Sniper scope crosshair on it, that was pretty eerie.

Also he seemed to slip up in the interview when asked if the killings will ever stop. He said "Well if I die, they'll stop". then quickly backpeddled and said "Well err I mean if I die, this whole thing will stop for me, (meaning his persicution?), "Or if the real Zodiac dies or is caught it'll stop. Watching that interview, just raised hairs on my neck, it was a big slip of the tongue and the truth came out for a split second imo.

Didn't Allen also have bomb making materials and such found i his basement after he died?

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Nola213

 

Dear Nola213,

While I think Mr. Voight has done a good job at keeping people looking at the case, I am not and have never been a poster on his site. In fact, I wouldn't have commented on this thread at all except that the "code breaker" used Mr. Allen's name in his solution and I find that highly unlikely.

As for Zodiac's intelligence, I think it is debatable. He clearly had training in some things; but, I think that because he has not been caught we might give him more credit than he deserves. BTK attempted to use letters to confuse the police and had numerous misspellings, in the end it turned out he was a bad speller and not a genius.

Yea BTK was definitely not too bright, hehe. After asking the police if a hard disc could be traced, and they told him "No". when they knew it could, (thats how they caught him, I believe it pinged back to his computer at a church iirc, I maybe off on that, or at his work.)

Anyway he was seriously dumbfounded, asking the police "Why did you lie to me?" haha that was classic.

But yea I too have never posted over at those boards, but I lurk when I'm bored, as Serial Killer Cases, and well mainly all True Crime Books and shows is something I enjoy reading/watching. I mean you can tell how into Serial Killers I am just by the 3 numbers after my name. Do you know what 213 is/was???

No I'm not a sicko, it was also a song by a metal band that I like (about the same meaning of the number) and I just used it many years ago, and just kept useing it.

this is nice but indeed very scary lol.

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

I'd heard of the zodiac killer but never really looked into it very deeply,after reading this thread i might do a little research o the case as it sounds really interesting.
As for cracking the code,i'm sure it'll be cracked some day by the last person you'd expect.

reply to post by Nola213


Dear Nola213,

Yes pipe bombs were found in his home and materials for making explosives. Guns were also found and none matched up. Allen was a child molester and a real creepy guy. It seems as if he wanted to tease the police by implying things that were not verifiable. I would like to see this case solved before I pass on; but, I think it will require a rethinking of the whole thing. Allen is dead so it really doesn't matter if it turns out to be him other than to bring closure for the families; but, it would be worse if everyone accepted that it was him and stopped looking for proof.

The Stine case should probably be the starting point. He broke his pattern in it. Firstly, he wasn't killing couples. Secondly, he moved his killings to San Francisco. Thirdly, he stole Stine's wallet, watch and keys. This was not in keeping with the three other confirmed attacks. In the others he chose remote places where there was less chance of being caught. Criminals tend to follow a pattern, modus operandi and that is how they usually get caught. They find a technique that works and they keep doing it until it fails, they create their own comfort zone.

The killing of Mr. Stine is the last confirmed killing by Zodiac. I don't think we know if it truly was the last time he killed someone; but, it didn't fit his pattern so I ask why did he change his methods and take such risks. The police looked at over 2,500 suspects over the years and have never matched up the fingerprints. In the BTK case, the police had firm DNA evidence and swabbed over 1,100 people including police officers, they never found a match either because they never suspected Rader (BTK's real name). As with that case, I don't believe the real Zodiac was ever a suspect.

Back to the Stine case. Why was Zodiac in San Francisco and using a cab, we know he had a car. We also know that Zodiac sat in the front seat along with the driver. He entered that cab with the intent of killing Mr. Stine is my guess. So, what if he killed him just for the wallet, what if it was just a robbery. Lets assume that he was headed for Vietnam.

Although not confirmed, it is widely believed that Cheri Jo Bates may have been his first victim. Miss Bates. The Riverside letter is interesting in that the killer claims that he killed Miss Bates because women had brushed him off. If we then look at the first three confirmed attacks we see that he goes after young lovers in secluded places. Sure looks like he is jealous because he cannot find a female companion (not the first time we have seen that in serial killers). In the confirmed attacks it appears his main interest was in the women and not the men. So, why did he kill Stine? That is the attack that makes little sense.

From 1971 ti 1974 Zodiac stopped writing letters to the police or newspapers. What if that was because he was in Vietnam? Oh, I forgot something Allen also passed a polygraph test. Sorry, I went back to read some things regarding Zodiac and lost my train of thought. Be well.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Most serial killers increase in frequency overtime (BTK being a rare exception) unless caught or killed.

...have you ever considered the possibility that widely-held view is inaccurate?...

...seems to me that what is known (and shared with us) is based upon the stats of those captured and, then, the info is tainted with a prejudicial view that knowing about a few is indicative of most...

...it could be that many do not increase in frequency over time - and - it could be that many often change their style and its intentional to avoid detection... it could be that serial killers are nowhere near as rare as we've been conditioned to believe...

...how many decades have countless kids gone missing and never been found?... they cant all be runaways or kidnapped to fuel the human trafficking cartels... how many unsolved murders do we have?... millions?...

...think about that one night when you're all alone and its storming outside, a tree limb is scratching against the house, the dog starts barking and, then, all the sudden the lights go out...

reply to post by Nola213


Dear Nola213,

I didn't consider the number; but, a quick search shows that it was the apartment number of Jeffrey Dahmer. As for BTK, he was caught because the word processing program he used was registered under the church. It was not great police work or as high tech as the Kansas police try to say. In fact, they did a terrible job regarding BTK. When you use Word for Windows, in the background is standard information regarding that you entered when initially using the program, that program identified the church. Even after they knew where the "letter" was written, they still did not immediately identify Rader.

I don't really follow serial killers nor do I find them romantic or deserving of being glorified. I took classes with Jack Levin who is an expert on serial killers and my father was in law enforcement. If I have any real interest in such cases it is primarily in looking at how police rarely catch serial killers. About 70% of all murders are committed on people who knew their killer. Most of the remainder are for money or revenge. Killing strangers for no apparent reason is tough to identify and that is why Mrs. Wegerle's husband was a suspect for so long. Poor police work and shoddy assumptions.

A good example of poor police work is the Original Night Stalker case also known as the East Area Rapist. It took decades for the police to match up that the two suspects were in fact the same person. Too little information is shared between districts. Zodiac is also a good example of this. The SFPD has not worked well with Vallejo. There is a Youtube video with a radio host named Savage (search Savage and Zodiac on Youtube to listen).

Police are not properly trained to catch serial killers because they are looking for motives that result in a concrete benefit to the killer. The standard profile of serial killers is also incorrect because of biases. It is assumed that serial killers are usually white, that is because most that have been caught have been white and that is because the west has the best technology for catching them. South America, Africa, Asia and Russia have poorly trained police forces which are more focused on corruption and keeping down the populace than they are with catching killers.

There is also a general assumption that serial killers are crazy individuals that have to keep to themselves; but, Gacy and BTK certainly don't fit that profile. There was also some doctor (I believe) in Russia who killed little boys over decades, he got away with it because he didn't fit the image of a serial killer and the russians didn't even put the murders together for decades because they were not looking for a serial killer.

Most serial killers do not send letters and identify that they are serial killers. The police begin with the assumption that murders are not connected unless there is a common purpose. If a person is killed in New York, there is little reason to assume that it matches a similar killing in Florida. I believe there needs to be a national database that looks at certain baseline characteristics of all murders and rapes, we live in a very mobile society. Just some thoughts.

in my opinion i think it was a few copycat killers
dna not consistan i would rely like to know more on this matter i hope this thred don't die
i like the post with the pics that are nere perfect match to the police drawing..

I lived in west sacramento during this time and people were really scared does anyone know where this alan leigh lived it is important becauise the zodiac was from west sac

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Dear Wyn Hawks,

I absolutely agree that the stats may be misleading. However, they have to be considered as it is what we have to work with. Not a ending place; but, part of the analysis. There are a few serial killers who have openly discussed what they thought after being caught. It is probably the best understanding that we can have of their mindset. They state that they begin by torturing animals and for whatever reason one day move on to people. Once that line has been crossed they rarely stop until they are unable to continue (for whatever reason).

As for Zodiac, I believe he either died in the war or is still alive. He kept items from the people he killed and I believe he would want them found when he died. Somebody sent a picture of a key to a safety deposit box in a letter to one of the San Francisco newspapers and their letter has been linked to Zodiac. I believe the letter was postmarked from Eureka, California. I do not believe the safety deposit box has ever been identified. I have wondered if someday it will be and upon opening it we might just find the killer.

Originally posted by rhynouk
I'd heard of the zodiac killer but never really looked into it very deeply,after reading this thread i might do a little research o the case as it sounds really interesting.
As for cracking the code,i'm sure it'll be cracked some day by the last person you'd expect.

Check out the movie (2007 / Fincher version). I am by no means implying that the movie depicts the events to the letter but its a decent flick. Book wise perhaps member "AQuestion" has some good suggestions as he has a solid background on Zodiac information.

As for the cracking....maybe that's what we have just witnessed

brill

reply to post by 1322hawk


Dear 1322hawk,

Arthur Leigh Allen lived in the San Francisco area, you can look him up on Wikipedia. There is no reason to believe that Zodiac ever lived in Sacramento. Not long after Zodiac appeared the Sacramento area had the East Area Rapist who it later turned out had also been in Southern California was was known as The Original Night Stalker, somebody has a website dedicated to those cases. That person has never been identified as Zodiac.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Not long after Zodiac appeared the Sacramento area had the East Area Rapist who it later turned out had also been in Southern California was was known as The Original Night Stalker, somebody has a website dedicated to those cases. That person has never been identified as Zodiac.

Is that Richard Ramirez or someone else ? There's no connection between the Night Stalker and Zodiac is there, or just a coincidence given what we know and two completely separate items ?

brill

reply to post by brill


Dear brill,

There is plenty of information for people to look at, I would certainly suggest the following:

Wikipedia - Zodiac Killer as a starting poing.

The previously linked ZodiacKiller.com

Zodiac Killer Facts and

The Zodiak Killer - Trutv

One can also go to the "Crime Library" or "America's Most Wanted.

Our best information says that says that Zodiac was between the age of 35 and 45 when he was active. That would make him between the age of 75 and 85 now, if he was still alive. While there are still people alive today who actually saw Zodiac, I don't know how reliable any of there memories would be. Personally, I am bad with remembering faces and names if I have only seen someone once. I guess this is why I don't trust the reliability of the victim who identified Allen 22 years after the event based on some old photo. Be well.

reply to post by brill


Dear brill,

No it is not Richard Ramirez. Wikipedia - The Original Night Stalker. This person has also never been caught and was much busier than Ramirez. There is a pretty informative website on this person and it includes his voice. East Area Rapist. I have never heard of this person being linked to Zodiac either and the ages do not match up, so he is not a suspect in the Zodiac case.

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
What ever came about

Dr. George Hill Hodel? i read the book released, yet didn't hear much about it

Dear Darth_Prime,

Dr. Hodel left the United States for 40 years in 1950. He was a suspect in the Black Dahlia murder in Los Angeles. There were many incorrect statements in the book and the case is still unsolved.

I think you may be a littler late with your code cracking.

As for the avatar ? What if someone reads that thru a scope?