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Why God's Word The Bible IS Infallible!

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posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 




Interesting how you quote Scriptures that you don’t believe and then twist them to suit your own understanding. But I’m not surprised as you love to cherry pick things.


Interesting that i can quote whatever scripture i want to... i just prefer to stick to what is truth.

And yet again, YOU are the cherry picker... Not i... I chose what i believe, but i post scripture accurately according to what is said in the chapter... You do not.


First you quote the scriptures at 1 Cor 13: 12-17 then ended it with:


Uhm, no i would not quote paul... That was James 3

Here, you say your bible is the "most accurate" so i'll use yours just for your clairifcation...

ASV

12Can a fig tree, my brethren, yield olives, or a vine figs? Neither can'salt water yield sweet.
13Who is wise and understanding among you? let him show by his good life his works in meekness of wisdom. 14But if ye have bitter jealousy and faction in your heart, glory not and lie not against the truth. 15This wisdom is not a wisdom that cometh down from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16For where jealousy and faction are, there is confusion and every vile deed. 17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without variance, without hypocrisy. 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace for them that make peace.

So again... Your God has proven to be Devilish according to your own bible, and this entire thread.


Yet when the Bible speaks of God as being jealous – it ALWAYS refers to righteous indignation or righteous jealousy.


But you forget the point of this thread is to prove the infallibility of the bible... which once again i am proving otherwise.


Just like a loving husband who is rightfully and righteously jealous if his wife starts seeing another man. Thus a husband or wife expects loyalty from his / her marriage mate in order to have a good relationship. It’s the same with God – he expects us to be fully devoted to him – or faithful to him especially when it comes to worship.


Every God demands loyalty... Thus the bible is no different then any other religious scripture claiming a God


However what you’re talking about is envy – I don’t need to explain what it is because it’s obvious what it is


Ya but see, that was from the KJV bible... I just posted directly from your bible, and the verse said Jealousy... And since this is your statement that the bible is infallible... i believe you have a lot of explaining to do.


So in God’s point of view – he requires that those serving him must be loyal to him, have a zeal to be truthful to him – in other words to be dedicated to him.


More pointless statements... and not a reason for God to be Jealous of anyone or anything. Believe it or not, because the bible says so... does not make it so.


As for the letters of Paul – I keep asking your follower jmdewey60 to provide proof of his claim - that they a forgery, but somehow keeps avoiding it. Any idea what’s he afraid of?

Truth maybe?


Perhaps you might ask him... because you clearly don't like answering my questions. I honestly don't blame you though, i wouldn't want to be my opponent on these threads either


Or you could answer the many questions i've asked you within this thread which you avoid like the plague... How can the bible be infallible when the person making that claim can't answer any hard questions about it?

I've answered everything anyone has asked me.... Sadly you can not, and have not done the same.

Good thing this threads main arguement was over with around page 30 i guess eh

edit on 18-10-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


Oh btw... Just so you know whos applauding your efforts within this thread...


Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by RonPaulsMainMan
 



I have a question.

In the Bible, Satan is labeled as "The Great Deceiver". IS IT POSSIBLE that some..........most...............ALL of the bible could have been authored by Satan ?


VERY much so!! Almost all the NIV, NASV, NLT, ASV, RV, LB, and about 230 more bible perversions are most definitely authored by Satan. Want proof? Look at this quote from Dr. Frank Logsdon, one of the VERY translators and the ACTUAL co-founder of the new bible perversion; the NASV.

“I must under God renounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version. I’m afraid I’m in trouble with the Lord… We laid the groundwork; I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translator; I wrote the preface… I’m in trouble; I can’t refute these arguments; its wrong, terribly wrong… The deletions are absolutely frightening… there are so many… Are we so naive that we do not suspect Satanic deception in all of this?
Upon investigation, I wrote my dear friend, Mr. Lockman, (editors note: Mr. Lockman was the benefactor through which the NASB was published) explaining that I was forced to renounce all attachment to the NASV.
You can say that the Authorized Version (KJV) is absolutely correct. How correct? 100% correct…”
--Dr. Frank Logsdon

All new bibles are Satanic inspired. Only the KJV is inspired and preserved by God Almighty for English speaking people.




I believe he was talking about your bible was he not?

Interesting how one can applaud you to your face, then stab you in the back when you look away




posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


You said:


See if you can find a Bible scholar who disagrees. There must be one, somewhere, right?


You mean those who disagree with you?

Like Irenaeus and Origen who both quote from Titus, and many other ancient authorities that also testify to the book’s canonicity.

It is also found in the Sinaitic and Alexandrine Manuscripts. Like in the John Rylands Library - there is a papyrus fragment, P32, which is a codex leaf of about the third century C.E. containing Titus 1:11-15 and 2:3-8.

Then as early as 1890, French Bible scholar F. Vigouroux published a book of over 400 pages entitled “Le Nouveau Testament et les découvertes archéologiques modernes” (The New Testament and Modern Archaeological Discoveries).

In it he supplied abundant proof supporting the Gospels, Acts of the Apostles and the letters contained in the Greek Scriptures.

Then in 1895, W. M. Ramsay published his now classic book "St. Paul the Traveller and the Roman Citizen" where it provided many valuable material showing the authenticity of the (NT) Christian Greek Scriptures.

Also in his book The Archaeology of the New Testament (first published in 1970) E. M. Blaiklock writes the following:


“Striking vindications of biblical historiography have taught historians to respect the authority of both Old Testament and New, and to admire the accuracy, the deep concern for truth, and the inspired historical insight of the varied writers who gave the Bible its books of history.”


There's more - I can devote an entire thread on this topic but it takes so much time to do it.

But the best authority on this is the Bible itself.

As for:


Let's see if truth is truth in your cherished books. True or false: Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons?


The answer is of course NO!

Notice:


Act 2:5 NIV - Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

Act 2:6 NIV - When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
...

Act 2:7 NIV - Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans?

Act 2:11 NIV - (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"


Besides if the statement is true that "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons." (NIV).

Then what's the point of Paul instructing Titus to:


"Tts 1:5 NIV - ...appoint elders in every town,"?


With the following qualifications:


Tts 1:6 NIV - An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

Tts 1:7 NIV - Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless--not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain.

Tts 1:8 NIV - Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.

Tts 1:9 NIV - He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.


And there were many Cretan Christians that Paul ministered to.

So there u go.

BTW - Paul was quoting a "certain prophet" when he wrote those words (Titus 1:12).

According to historical records the quote came from a Cretan Prophet named Epimenides (Epimenides paradox).

Here's a simple explanation of this so called paradox:


Naturally, any truly logical idea of a paradox with the statement falls flat if one understands that while "all Cretans" may be "liars," such a statement in realistic terms does not necessarily mean that all Cretans lie all the time or that they lie only. Even if it is said that "Cretans are always liars," this does not produce a paradox if one understands the various meanings of the term always—as in "John always says No!" does not mean that "No" is all—or the only thing—John ever says. Certainly even the most prolific liars in history told the truth at least some of the time, so an idea that anyone lies in every single sentence they speak is merely simpleminded at best. The word "always" can also be interpreted to mean "in all instances", as in, "when you find a Cretan, you will always have found a liar," where "liar," again, need not mean more than a person who is known to lie.


en.wikipedia.org...

In short it's an expression many Cretans believed back then (in Crete) thus Paul gave Titus guidance on what to do.

As for:


I don't know about absolute proofs, but there is preponderance of evidence.


Then by all means bring your evidence and let's compare it to the Bible.



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


This is getting interesting as it goes further:

Look at this statement of yours:


YOU are the cherry picker... Not i... I chose what i believe,


Isn't it a cherry picker a....tada....a choser? hmmm


you just defined yourself...
(sorry i can't help it)

But you say:


"12Can a fig tree, my brethren, yield olives, or a vine figs? Neither can'salt water yield sweet.
13Who is wise and understanding among you? let him show by his good life his works in meekness of wisdom. 14But if ye have bitter jealousy and faction in your heart, glory not and lie not against the truth. 15This wisdom is not a wisdom that cometh down from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16For where jealousy and faction are, there is confusion and every vile deed."



So again... Your God has proven to be Devilish according to your own bible, and this entire thread.


Did you just applied these scriptures to God? Wow, truly mazing - grace. Are you sure about that?

Because the following scriptures shows you what is truly from God:

Notice -


"17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without variance, without hypocrisy. 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace for them that make peace."


I hope you're not getting confused further - need to concentrate more.

As for:

"However what you’re talking about is envy – I don’t need to explain what it is because it’s obvious what it is"


Ya but see, that was from the KJV bible... I just posted directly from your bible, and the verse said Jealousy... And since this is your statement that the bible is infallible... i believe you have a lot of explaining to do.


huh...did you forget what you said.

Here it is again, you said:


So again, according to your bible... ]Jealousy or envy / strive are not from above... they are earthly sensual and Devilish...


Are you changing your story line again or is this more twisting?

Now let me please clarify it fur ya - quoting from the verses above, it says "bitter jealousy and faction " which is envy - not righteous Jealousy - as in rightheous ZEAL - righteous indignation.

See the difference?

As for what I said:

So in God’s point of view – he requires that those serving him must be loyal to him, have a zeal to be truthful to him – in other words to be dedicated to him."

Where u said:


More pointless statements... and not a reason for God to be Jealous of anyone or anything. Believe it or not, because the bible says so... does not make it so.


So what's pointless about what I said? Didn't Jesus made this point crystal clear already fur-ya?

Here's what he said to the Devil in case you've forgotten already:


Mat 4:10 NIV - Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "


As for the rest of your long cut and pasted statements (i.e. alledge crimes by God) - what's the point of answering them if you will just redicule the Biblical explanations. It's like throwing pearls to you know what...

Besides you'll just cherry pick only the ones that will support your claim then twist them - that is turn my God to evil and yours to good. Just like what the Devil did to Jesus (Matt 4:1-9).



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Sorry to be frank but are you trying to create a wedge amongst the participants here?

If so you're doing exactly what devil did when he was still in heaven, happily he got kicked out of there.

Notice:


Rev 12:10 NIV - Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.


but i hope not...



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 

Then by all means bring your evidence and let's compare it to the Bible.
A third century fragment of Titus is not exactly proof of authenticity. The author you quote from 1970 doesn't go into any detail about the books having been written by who is claimed to be the authors.
So you say, Not true, on the claim made by the writer of Titus.

For there are many rebellious people, idle talkers, and deceivers, especially those with Jewish connections, who must be silenced because they mislead whole families by teaching for dishonest gain what ought not to be taught. A certain one of them, in fact, one of their own prophets, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” Such testimony is true. For this reason rebuke them sharply that they may be healthy in the faith. . .
NETBible
Then you are saying that the writer of Titus is a liar since he says it is true. The reason I brought this up is that you were making the assertion that these disputed books can stand on their own truth, but here you say it is not true, so what do they stand on?



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


i will be back with a reply in several hours simply because i don't have time atm...

but for your reference....

Cherry picking is the act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.

To pick out the best, or most desirable items from a list or group, especially to obtain some advantage or to present something in the best possible light

SO..

In terms of selecting what i believe is correct on a book by book basis, Yes i would be cherry picking.... though i compare everything i use to the lessons of Jesus... Which is why i can be selective because not everything fits into his ideals within the bible....On the other hand you tend to refer to paul in your arguements. Who is a liar...

BUT

As for quoting from scripture... I read the entire chapter before i post anything so as to not miss any information. This is what i mean when i say you cherry pick... Though you're not as bad as some... You have routienely selected certian verses from books and quoted them without reading what comes before or after...

And by your definintion, everyone is a cherry picker... We are all chosers... We chose everything we have in our lives... we even chose our God.




posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


jmdewey60 and madcat, you two bible "kiddies" have been thoroughly proved wrong on every occasion by emc2. What more can be discussed? bogo already ran away in terror, but you two seem to be bound and determined to show your ignorance to everyone reading. (you are probably being paid...)

Can we make a set objected to debate on so as to get back on topic?
edit on 18-10-2011 by KJV1611 because: i can



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon
 


jmdewey60 and madcat, you two bible "kiddies" have been thoroughly proved wrong on every occasion by emc2. What more can be discussed? bogo already ran away in terror, but you two seem to be bound and determined to show your ignorance to everyone reading. (you are probably being paid...)

Can we make a set objected to debate on so as to get back on topic?
edit on 18-10-2011 by KJV1611 because: i can


Incorrect...

Show me a single thing he's proven in this thread that i haven't been able to refute...

On the contrary i have proven many times in this thread that the bible is in fact quite fallible.

And the fact that you once again atempt to proclaim victory in this thread in a sad attempt to throw off your opposition only further reenforces the fact that neither of you can prove anything. Both of you manage to pass over questions that you have no answer to which basically happens several times on every page.

So seriously... Give up the pathetic victory statements man.

All anyone has to do is review this thread to see who is winning this debate... And sadly enough, its clearly not your side.

Btw... Somehow i doubt Bogo has ran away... I know him better than that, he would not back down from either of you




posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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47 pages of debating a book.

47 pages of dispute.

47 pages arguing over words while a child goes hungry in the world.

47 pages blindly staring at the black and white while the full color show runs LIVE!!!

47 pages of wasted life.

47 pages and the damn book still has not brought agreement among men.

Need more proof of the fallibility?

Keep watching till page 99.



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


Well said my friend!

As usual you see the truth beyond the words




posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 



Isn't it a cherry picker a....tada....a choser? hmmm

you just defined yourself... (sorry i can't help it)


Already been defined so lets move on shall we...


But you say:


"12Can a fig tree, my brethren, yield olives, or a vine figs? Neither can'salt water yield sweet.
13Who is wise and understanding among you? let him show by his good life his works in meekness of wisdom. 14But if ye have bitter jealousy and faction in your heart, glory not and lie not against the truth. 15This wisdom is not a wisdom that cometh down from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16For where jealousy and faction are, there is confusion and every vile deed."



So again... Your God has proven to be Devilish according to your own bible, and this entire thread.


Did you just applied these scriptures to God? Wow, truly mazing - grace. Are you sure about that?


See heres the thing... i know that these words are not from God. Though you seem to think they are... so considering you've said many times your God is a Jealous God, and Your very own ASV bible says this which you believe are words from God...

Your God is devilish/earthly/sensual... according to your Gods words. So, considering you say all scripture is inspired by God... are you denying your Gods words? Similar to how others like to claim Jesus is God yet deny his words as well?


Because the following scriptures shows you what is truly from God:

Notice -


"17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without variance, without hypocrisy. 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace for them that make peace."


So for the second time in this post, you deny your Gods words from your own book... This is cherry picking by the way.... posting a verse without considering what came before it or after.... It says clearly Jealousy is not a quality of God... Directly from the book you claim is the most accurate of all bibles, and infallible.


I hope you're not getting confused further - need to concentrate more.


LMAO!

Pleeease man... You need to open your eyes and try using some logic... Your arguement makes no sense. Either all of the bible is Gods word as you say or its not.... You can't have both. IF it is, Jealousy is not a quality of God as it states, which contradicts your Gods own words within the book. If it is not Gods word, then you're off the hook... Its as simple as that...

Use logic and there is no arguement... If you want to be illogical, then you have some explaining to do because this is complete hypocrisy.


As for:

"However what you’re talking about is envy – I don’t need to explain what it is because it’s obvious what it is"


Ya but see, that was from the KJV bible... I just posted directly from your bible, and the verse said Jealousy... And since this is your statement that the bible is infallible... i believe you have a lot of explaining to do.


huh...did you forget what you said.

Here it is again, you said:


So again, according to your bible... Jealousy or envy / strive are not from above... they are earthly sensual and Devilish...


Are you changing your story line again or is this more twisting?


Somehow im not shocked i need to explain this to you... but anyways...

No story has changed, i posted directly from the KJV bible, and to back up what i said, i decided to use the book that you claimed (in this thread) is the most accurate of all the bibles. Since you made that claim you can not take it back, meaning the correct word used is Jealousy according to your book the JW's handbook.(ASV)

I love how you try to twist what i say, but it won't work... you can't confuse me... so try to assume that its pointless to try... And again remember this is your thread not mine... You are the one trying to prove the infallibility of the bible.... I am just the one proving you wrong.


Now let me please clarify it fur ya - quoting from the verses above, it says "bitter jealousy and faction " which is envy - not righteous Jealousy - as in rightheous ZEAL - righteous indignation.

See the difference?


Zeal and Jealousy are two different terms... And Rightous Jealousy is a contradiction in terms...

You're reaching man...


So in God’s point of view – he requires that those serving him must be loyal to him, have a zeal to be truthful to him – in other words to be dedicated to him."

Where u said:


More pointless statements... and not a reason for God to be Jealous of anyone or anything. Believe it or not, because the bible says so... does not make it so.


So what's pointless about what I said?


Its pointless because every "God" requires his followers to serve only them... And even though that might be true that does not give any God a reason to be Jealous if one choses not to serve them.

A God would be beyond such pathetic emotions such as Jealousy and Hatred... If God is perfect as you and many others claim, why would he be so pathetic as to give in to silly human emotions...

Thus, in giving in to those lower end negative emotions he renders himself no better then us lowly humans.

What say you?


Here's what he said to the Devil in case you've forgotten already:


Mat 4:10 NIV - Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "


Ya... but you don't serve the God of Jesus... If you did you would see the error within this whole thread, and specifically this arguement within this thread.


As for the rest of your long cut and pasted statements (i.e. alledge crimes by God) - what's the point of answering them if you will just redicule the Biblical explanations. It's like throwing pearls to you know what...


Typical explaination from someone who can't answer a quesiton.... "why should i answer you'll just mock me" well i tell you, i am not here to mock anyone, nor am i here to judge you or anyone else. I am here to prove the FACT that the bible is a crooked book, full of garbage that has no relevance in this day and age. And when your "explaination" makes no sense.... obviously im going to jump on that fact.

You won't answer because you can't without proving the fallibility of this book.


Besides you'll just cherry pick only the ones that will support your claim then twist them - that is turn my God to evil and yours to good. Just like what the Devil did to Jesus


Incorrect... but what are you afraid of? If you were so sure that these disgusting verses are in fact from God shouldn't you be proud to proclaim them as such? Doubting your God now are we? Its only a matter of time man... people can only take so many faults before they start to question. When you start to question your beliefs you are FINALLY stepping on to the correct path...

and btw...

Your God is not My God... You do not know my God because you are blinded by your church who taught you that the bible is infallible.

And just so you know, i will not make the God of Jesus to be evil... I use scripture from Jesus to support my claim which... once again... is the reason why i destroy your arguements with ease. And you will not find anything within his words that supports the scripture i've posted about the murders/ rapes / and tortures that your God has commited to the unsuspecting people written about within the pages of said book.

You try to defend them, and you only make yourself look foolish... And the funny thing is i believe you know this as well, which is why you won't touch those verses with a 10 foot poll.

So... i'll be waiting for your reply... try to make it thorough please... Im tired of having to repost questions you can't answer.... Honestly if you don't have an answer thats fine. At least i'd respect that, but making up an answer and cherrypicking verses that have nothing to do with the original question only shows the truth behind your lack of understanding...

the bible is Very fallible...... Just face the facts man


edit on 18-10-2011 by Akragon because: r



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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Tertullian brings up what looks like that same quote from James, in his Against Marcion.

The unhappy man gained the first idea of his conceit from the simple passage of our Lord's saying, which has reference to human beings and not divine ones, wherein He disposes of those examples of a good tree and a corrupt one; how that "the good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit, neither the corrupt tree good fruit." Which means, that an honest mind and good faith cannot produce evil deeds, any more than an evil disposition can produce good deeds. Now (like many other persons now-a-days, especially those who have an heretical proclivity), while morbidly brooding over the question of the origin of evil, his perception became blunted by the very irregularity of his researches; and when he found the Creator declaring, "I am He that createth evil," inasmuch as he had already concluded from other arguments, which are satisfactory to every perverted mind, that God is the author of evil, so he now applied to the Creator the figure of the corrupt tree bringing forth evil fruit, that is, moral evil, and then presumed that there ought to be another god, after the analogy of the good tree producing its good fruit. Accordingly, finding in Christ a different disposition, as it were--one of a simple and pure benevolence--differing from the Creator, he readily argued that in his Christ had been revealed a new and strange divinity; and then with a little leaven he leavened the whole lump of the faith, flavouring it with the acidity of his own heresy.
Tertullian, Against Marcion (Kindle Locations 38-47).
Maybe not, as in, Tertullian and Marcion both not having it quite right. It could be that people were blinded to the universal God while focusing on their national gods while getting what they could out of what this world had to offer, on the physical plane of existence.
Jesus had to wake them up to the fact that there was something greater than the latest war of conquest they were engaged in. Then an enlightening occurred, which is that there is a single source for all life. That life that was in the word of God became a light to the world when it came to mankind through one who articulated that knowledge to the world, then, what was previously unknown, became known.

edit on 18-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 




Then an enlightening occurred, which is that there is a single source for all life. That life that was in the word of God became a light to the world when it came to mankind through one who articulated that knowledge to the world, then, what was previously unknown, became known.


Good point...

But i'd argue that said knowledge was already known to others.... given within the 10 commandments..

Jesus just refined it...

And im also quite sure that even before those commandments were given, this knowledge was still not previously unknown... Love is simply positive vibrations expressed within our existance through knowledge of life...




posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 
God is always working behind the scenes and all you have to do is look at the life of Jesus, where God was there but through good things coming from him, which had to be coming from a good place. You did not literally see God, but there was a beneficial element going through a human agency.
There was another sort of agency previous to that, and it was not exactly human but really not much better. Jesus being the son of God in a more literal sense, was superior to the earlier known sons of god, who had superhuman abilities but lacked the complete purity of character as God has.
I quoted this on my current thread last night but it might be useful here.

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor heavenly rulers, nor things that are present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Who was Paul talking about? Why be concerned about all those? Because they are who normally run things and not always in a good way, or hardly ever in a good way.

edit on 18-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Who was Paul talking about? Why be concerned about all those? Because they are who normally run things and not always in a good way, or hardly ever in a good way.


You mean when he said "us"?

I don't really deal with paul honestly, but i would say he was speaking of whoever he was associated with, being the leader of whatever social circle he was in.

Now if he was speaking to the reader... I would say paul would be speaking to who ever understands Jesus and his message...

He was basically saying nothing can make "us" not believe that what Christ taught was truth...

edit on 18-10-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Both of you manage to pass over questions that you have no answer to which basically happens several times on every page.

Sorry if I missed these. Post them again in short sentences and I will get back with you.



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon
 


Both of you manage to pass over questions that you have no answer to which basically happens several times on every page.

Sorry if I missed these. Post them again in short sentences and I will get back with you.


You expect me to dig through 47 pages?

Ain't gonna happen bro




posted on Oct, 22 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon
 



You've clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding on these matters and i chose not to deal with your ramblings anymore...


I figured as much. This is what people do when they are proved wrong and they don't have the words to defend their position since they were proven wrong. Look at bogo, he ran away for the same reason. Poor Bible babes....


Just for the record: I have been ill for a long time now, and have thus been been prevented from joining any forum debate at all.

But in any case, there's not much point in 'debating' you.

You apparantly operate from a position of megalomania, where your main-conclusion is, that you are the 'winner'. And I have no intentions of wasting time on such delusions.

But what's worse is, that you also have a platform of total solipsism.

Most of the time you ignore questions, which can be inconvenient for you. And when you in a few cases DO answer, your knowledge of the opposition you are up against is not only at zero-point, .....you have actually created your own personal phantom-travesty of it (your opposition), from where you fight a fight against windmills of your own construction. So to speak being the self-appointed spokesman of BOTH sides.

This has been pointed out several times in the course of this thread, and probably it won't come across this time either.

But what I believe that even the most devout evangelist christian will recognize is, that this solipsistic position of yours denies the possibility of alternative reality-models outside YOUR self-contained and self-affirming bible-'reality' (e.g. are you elsewhere also engaged in similar "my mindset is 'true' " disputes with other christians).

You do STILL not understand my approach, but believe it to be something you can enforce into your cherry-picking little bible world.

Whereas I in reality am challenging the thread's main-claim from a 'reality-check' direction.

Given your ignorance of science/logic, it's probably overoptimistic to expect you have even the slightest idea of what epistemology is, and you can reject the subject (of epistemology) as much as you like. But it is nonetheless a concept, which is taken very seriously outside circles of circularly argumented self-promoted 'truths'.

Should you ever take the risk of questioning your solipsism and accept a reality outside your own premises, I MAY be around. It's getting rather trite to reading the same 'because'-argumentation presented by christian missionaries, who have lost any contact with an outer reality, and I seriously consider finding a forum, where constructive dialogues are possible.

So don't expect any responses from me to further posting on your part based on delusions of grandeur or solipsism. The only thing I'll respond to is an acceptance for an extended reality-check.

But please do go on cutting out your own standards in capital neon-letters: "I have 'won' again.....because.....I say so".



posted on Oct, 22 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 


Hahaha!!

Told ya man...

I know him better then that, as i've said... he would not back down from you or anyone else.

Take care now







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