San Francisco Police Shoot and Kill Teenager over $2 bus fare GRAPHIC VIDEO, page 24

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reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 01:37 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by BeyondPerception

Originally posted by XcathdraEven more so being its been confirmed the kid had a gun, that he did shoot at the cops, and the fact that the cops were a better shot than he was.

I'm falling a little behind on the thread. Can you direct me to the confirmation of the first 2.

Thanks

Gunshot residue on kids hands

ATS post - image of gun on the ground

Gun located possibly one used in shooting in San Fran (not seattle)

KQED News - Timeline of Events with detailed info

Who shot first?

Police say Harding fired at officers before the officers returned fire. Lieutenant Hector Sainez, Commanding Officer for SFPD’s homicide detail said, "We have witnesses who say they did see flash, the muzzle flash the suspect fired backwards at the officers as he was running."

In addition to eyewitness testimony, police say they have GPS technology that pinpointed where there was gunfire, as well as recorded audio.

Commander Mikail Ali said, "The timeline on these 10 shots that were registered by the system is about six seconds. There is a time of 1.9 seconds between the first shot and the second shot. It is that time period that we believe that the first shot was fired by the suspect, and then the officers were in a position to identify and respond accordingly to being fired upon.

Has Harding’s gun been recovered?

Police say they have a gun, but have not yet confirmed if it’s the gun Harding used to fire at officers. They are waiting for results of ballistics, DNA, and other tests.

Who were the police officers involved in the shooting?

One of the officers was a senior station officer in the Bayview who walks the Third Street beat regularly. The other has 3+ years of law-enforcement experience. Both officers are now on paid administrative leave.

More info on the news site.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 02:10 AM by Grievere

reply to post by Xcathdra

Look growing up as an African American in Oakland, California( pretty tough city) I was taught to dislike the police from a young age, Not saying that all cops are bad but in my experiences with them perhaps it just appears so. I have been stereotyped by officers all my life, accused of stealing, accused of tossing drugs in bushes etc., even to the point that officers have seen me walking down the street and harass me for NO reason at all( and by harass I mean forced to sit on the curb, get my pockets checked the whole nine yards). It wasn't until I got some knowledge of the legal system and my own rights as a citizen that police began to respect me. Most people would say the same If you don't know your right police will take advantage of that( hell I have had officers ask for my social security number). I am in no way a criminal, I went to college, I raise a family, I pay my taxes, I go to church but still in some instances I am harassed by the almighty police. And please don't talk about relevancy when you just asked me if Oswald was the only shooter?smh... regarding the topic though there are mixed feelings.

I agree that if the suspect had shot at officers, well then the only thing to do is to shoot back I understand they have to protect themselves.

But, many witness reported no gunshots from the suspect, could it be possible that the officers had stopped the man, and searched him, and upon finding a gun the suspect took off running( I assume with the said gun), and officers took him as a plausible threat and opened fire? that's one possibility, and in that case they are wrong.

even still allowing him to bleed out on the sidewalk like that is inhumane.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 02:10 AM by BeyondPerception

reply to post by Xcathdra

Thanks.

The SFPD chief is supposed to be presenting some more evidence later on today. I'll chime in once that's unveiled.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 02:38 AM by Subjective Truth

reply to post by BeyondPerception

70 flags for a misleading thread about a criminal.

I am starting to wonder if there is something in the water at this point.

So what if he shot at the cops and had a rap sheet a mile long and tried to kill someone. Nope it is all about 2 dollars and that this poor black kid was not helped enough.

I have to wonder if it is kids with little real world experience or trolls looking for a fight or adults who's life has passed them by. Hmm, I am just not sure anymore. How can people not see the simple facts right in front of them?

This thread has become a commentary about what is really wrong with society. The facts don't matter anymore and personal truth which is subjective "shout out to myself" rules the day.

Why even put the facts forward anymore they amount to nothing. We are all truly lost because of this simple thing but denial will convince most we are just fine.

This thread has shown me one thing we are screwed.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 03:39 AM by onefellswoop

The US really needs to update its national anthem to reflect its current values and ideologies.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 09:38 AM by SFA437

This keeps getting better:

Bayview Protests

Dozens of protesters marched from the park through the Mission and Castro districts during the evening, shutting down streets and at one point storming the Castro Muni station. Inside, some protesters threw smoke bombs and used sticks and hammers to smash signs and vandalized a Bank of America branch...

They also stopped in front of the Mission Police Station, where they threw a hammer at officers, who were not hit. One protester attempted to take a camera away from a member of a local TV news crew...

Convicted rapist and suspected murderer of a teenage girl and her unborn child shoots at police and the reaction is to vandalize a bank & train station, steal cameras and throw hammers at people. Think of how much better these neighborhoods would be if they protested every time a hood rat shot & killed someone.

I think the French have the right idea in writing off certain areas as no-go zones. Let Bayview turn into a little Liberia and leave the population to their own devices and destruction.

edit on 20-7-2011 by SFA437 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 11:25 AM by HappilyEverAfter

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

Police are not allowed to fire "warning" shots, nor are we allowed to fire a "wounding" shot. We are trained to shoot center mass to stop the threat.

The "warning" you want would be the officer yelling at the person to drop the weapn and show their hands.

Absent the person complying with that command, the "wounding": shot you are looking for is going to come from the bullets missing any vital organs.

It really is simple.
Stop when you have been ordered to by the police.
Drop the gun when youhave been ordered to by the police.

Absent that, you made the bed, and now you get to lay in it.

I'm well aware of all that the police can and cannot do, 'by the book'.
Unfortunately we dont always have that luxury to live 'by the book'.

He'd no doubt still be alive had shots not been fired.

edit on 20-7-2011 by HappilyEverAfter because: typo

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 02:26 PM by chrisd250

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck

i believe they were all scared because at that point, it appeared they were caught red handed. Also, riots would be expected if you shot someone in cold blood like that...so fear and shock would freeze them....my guess its the reason i think they are guilty....no testimony from him if he cant talk anyways...

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 02:34 PM by Subjective Truth

Originally posted by onefellswoop
The US really needs to update its national anthem to reflect its current values and ideologies.

Really this is what you contribute to the conversation. That we should change a anthem because a piece of crap was shot dead by the police.

Why not choose a case were the guy is actually just minding his own business instead of this scum bag to defend.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 02:37 PM by Fractured.Facade

Lethal force should always be a last resort, not a first.

These incidences are going to turn a simmering situation into a slow boil, and eventually it is all going to explode.

There is enough hate, bloodshed and war in this world, we don't need it at home, not like this, nothing good can come from it.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 02:48 PM by MessOnTheFED!

redacted origional statement: It is what it is.

MOTF!

edit on 20-7-2011 by MessOnTheFED! because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 02:58 PM by thisguyrighthere

I hate cops. Absolutely and completely.

But this nut had it coming.

What bothers me is this "hot pursuit" behavior.

Can't have some lunatic shooting at you. I can't, you can't, a cop can't. Have to put a stop to it one way or another.

But shooting at this guy in a place like that? Come on. I've qualified with cops and feds before and most of them have not been very good shots at all. And that's shooting at paper and plates. Shooting at somebody running away in a crowded place? Really? What a stupid thing to do.

Firing in pursuit and car chases are the most ridiculously reckless and unnecessarily situation escalating things anyone can do and they go on doing it all the time.

Then there's Carl Winslow there holding a dying man at gunpoint twenty feet away. Real brave. Somebody throw that man a parade. Okay, he's dead. Now let's go in for some first aid.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 03:03 PM by the sloth

Wow. It seems sickeningly obvious that the dude NEVER had a gun. If you can't understand that simplistic FACT then you're far beyond help. You think the cops just forgot to check on the wounded man? Not when they needed him dead so he couldn't testify. There's no confusion about what happened unless you were born with an ass for a brain. Don't get me wrong. I think many cops try to do well by their communities. Others are power crazed pigs in the most literal sense of the word pig. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell which side these heartless scumbags belong to. Can I say with %100 certainty he didn't have a gun? No. With %99 certainty. Absolutely. I hope they get the chair although I'm also certain all they'll get is a slap on the wrist.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 03:58 PM by Fractured.Facade

Having seen all that you have as a white male, if you woke up tomorrow morning in SF to discover a miraculous transformation had occurred overnight and you were now a young black male... Later you leave and find a world far removed from when you were just another white guy.... In time suspicions build because you are black, out of place and seem rather nervous... Someone calls the cops... In time, you hear sirens and they are all speeding toward your location, some officers get out guns drawn and give you orders... You put your hands in the air and soon realize that these guys are looking for any reason to pull the trigger on you, you try to explain who you are, where you live and why you are there... You only make the officers more agitated and trigger happy, the cops order you to get on the ground and you become so full of fear that your survival instincts take over, in a moment of pure panic you reach for your wallet to offer them your ID, as a white guy that should have been no problem, but because you are black now, you just made a fatal mistake... You hear several pops and instantly feel the stinging pain of bullets entering your body, you can no longer stand, you fall and gasp for air but can't breathe, you lay there bleeding to death and see the officers closing in on you, their gun barrels now seem larger than them... The last words you ever hear... "Stupid black kid, what was he thinking" ...

-The End-

Disclaimer, this was a completely fictitious story and in no way describes any real life incident.

edit on 20-7-2011 by Fractured.Facade because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 04:32 PM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Disclaimer, this was a completely fictitious story and in no way describes any real life incident.

Then how about posting it in the story telling forums instead of in this thread?

You have anything to add about the topic?

The kid didnt pay the fare, which was the reason, a valid one, he was detained by police.
The kid decided to run from the police while detained, which is resisting an arrest / lawful detention by fleeing.
During the foot pursuit, the kid pulls a gun and squeezes off a round - (witnesses support both sides)
Officers return fire, killing the kid.
Cell phone video shows the gun on the ground.

Even for the 2 dollar fare issue, the kid was looking at jail time over the parole violation.
Had the cops searched him and found the gun, its another prison term and mandatory minimum for a felon in possession of a fire arm.

While the death is tragic, the blame for the ssequence of events and outcome falls squarely on the shoulders of the kid.

edit on 20-7-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 04:36 PM by Fractured.Facade

reply to post by Xcathdra

Because I thought it added to this discussion rather nicely.

The line between reality and fiction in this context is clearly a matter of perspective.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 04:46 PM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by Xcathdra

Because I thought it added to this discussion rather nicely.

The line between reality and fiction in this context is clearly a matter of perspective.

Not really since the facts are pretty clear as to what happened from point A to point Z.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 04:54 PM by Fractured.Facade

reply to post by Xcathdra

The second line of my post you've quoted there my response to your latest comment.

If you believe the facts, or if you believe they are lies to justify a cowardly murder... It is all relative.

In the end, what people seen, witnessed will rule over everything else.... People see and believe what they want and will on both sides of this.

Who is right or wrong ultimately?

That is not up to any of us to decide.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 04:58 PM by Xcathdra

reply to post by Fractured.Facade

Who is right or wrong is dependant upon the Pa and the court system. However, in this case, the evidence speaks for itself. The cops were within law and departmental policy, and the kid broke the law and paid the price for his stupidity.

Feel free to attempt to spin this the way you want, but it doesnt change the outcome or sequence of events. It doesnt change the facts..

If you had been with this conversation since page 1 you would see the evidence and facts. Coming in at the end without giving proper time to reviewing the facts is only making you look naieve on this topic.

Take the time, read through the thread, read the updates, then come back.

reply posted on 20-7-2011 @ 05:07 PM by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

Who is right or wrong is dependant upon the Pa and the court system. However, in this case, the evidence speaks for itself. The cops were within law and departmental policy, and the kid broke the law and paid the price for his stupidity.

Yeah, you say it is up to the court system, yet you are already absolutely convinced and have arrived at this conclusion because you have read this thread from page one.

I rest my case.

Upon your conclusions here, we can safely call this case closed!