Breaking: NY Passes Gay Marriage

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by pityocamptes
You guys need to relax. I'm not anti-anything - just jerking the chain.

I won't relax.

This is an important fight for equal rights and I will not relax!

So basically, why even push the issue for gay marriage when other avenues are available?

Straight people have those same other avenues, too. Gay people want to get married for the SAME reasons straight people do.

Actually why would anyone even want to get married in this day and age?

That's beside the point. Why do people want to jump out of planes? Why do people want to have children? Why do people wear make-up? Should we disallow these things because I don't understand why people want to do them?

You make some valid points. Me thinks this topic is not only a religious sore spot with the vast majority but also one more thing - its a tax, social security, etc. issue. However, I see this as a religious, societal issue. If you really look at history very few societies offered sanction for gay marriage. Greece and Rome allowed it, but there taxation system was different, as was their religious affiliation before Xianism took hold. It is an interesting subject, though as to how society views stigmas, etc.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Key word is "had" a religious background, no longer believe in any of it. Trust me, it has left me.

You may think that - - but it hasn't.

Legal paperwork trumps pretty much anything.

NO it doesn't. Not in the case of gay partnerships/family/property etc.

That is a complete Fallacy - - supported by those against gay marriage.

I think the big push goes beyond the legal contract offered by state sanctioned marriages and really has roots in overturning or rubbing it in the face of the "religious". If you see WHO is on both sides and pushing the agenda, it goes far beyond the mere prima facia of "rights".

As I said - - you may have left religion - - but it has not left you. You are in denial.

edit on 29-6-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)

You need to calm down. In denial? You don't even know me as mentioned earlier and yet you tag me with this? I could always counter and tell you the same thing, your in denial.

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Ok so your telling me about what I believe in? You don't even know me... hahahaha

You made the statement that legal paperwork does NOT trump protection of property/person - please cite just ONE example.

I am not telling you what you believe in.

I'm telling you - you are in denial that you think you've left your religious background in the past.

FACT: 3 year old with fever and flu throwing up. Sitting on couch with him and my little Acer in my lap - - ready to jump into action as needed. Can not do any research at this time - it would require too much focus

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Ok so your telling me about what I believe in? You don't even know me... hahahaha

You made the statement that legal paperwork does NOT trump protection of property/person - please cite just ONE example.

I am not telling you what you believe in.

I'm telling you - you are in denial that you think you've left your religious background in the past.

FACT: 3 year old with fever and flu throwing up. Sitting on couch with him and my little Acer in my lap - - ready to jump into action as needed. Can not do any research at this time - it would require too much focus

Once and for all I AM NOT IN FREAKING DENIAL so get over it. Hope your child feels better...

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Once and for all I AM NOT IN FREAKING DENIAL so get over it. Hope your child feels better...

Your postings show otherwise.

Thank you - - he is my grandson I am raising because his daddy died of Leukemia.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Once and for all I AM NOT IN FREAKING DENIAL so get over it. Hope your child feels better...

Your postings show otherwise.

Thank you - - he is my grandson I am raising because his daddy died of Leukemia.

No, I simply offered the other side, this does not mean I believe in it. I have simply indicated that from a cultural, religiously biased environment, with which the state has set the guidelines for "morality", and in the interest for civilization, and fear of the unknown, you can see why "equal rights" have not been applied to certain minorities.


Thats not good. Hope he feels better.

reply to post by pityocamptes


I am not trying to be contrary or insulting.

I don't know you. I don't remember ever having a conversation with you before.

There is only one way I know you have a strong religious background.

And that is from the handful of posts in this thread.

Yes - it is another side of the debate. Not saying it isn't. But the source is obvious.

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by pityocamptes

 

I am not trying to be contrary or insulting.

I don't know you. I don't remember ever having a conversation with you before.

There is only one way I know you have a strong religious background.

And that is from the handful of posts in this thread.

Yes - it is another side of the debate. Not saying it isn't. But the source is obvious.

:sigh:

Originally posted by pityocamptes
No, I simply offered the other side, this does not mean I believe in it. I have simply indicated that from a cultural, religiously biased environment, with which the state has set the guidelines for "morality", and in the interest for civilization, and fear of the unknown, you can see why "equal rights" have not been applied to certain minorities.

NO - I can't.

It is so far from any thought process I've experienced in my life - - its unrecognizable as anything valid.

Let's talk moral behavior. I am so sick of hearing this is a Christian nation I could scream. And morality is based on belief in god.

Religious morality is an act - it is not real - it is a programmed act to present to the world. Look how pious I am. It is a control mechanism that doesn't always transfer beyond the surface.

My mom was disabled in 1951 with polio. Let's stick to one point - voting. The voting booth was in the lobby of the city government building. You know one of those old structures with stairs. This was a middle class white Christian neighborhood. All the politicians were Christian. What was my mom told when she said she couldn't get up the stairs? Its your problem.

Did you know the American Disability Act wasn't enacted until 1990?

Here is opposition from churches: Opposition from religious groups

The debate over the Americans with Disabilities Act led some religious groups to take opposite positions. Some religious groups, such as the Association of Christian Schools International, opposed the ADA in its original form. ACSI opposed the Act primarily because the ADA labeled religious institutions “public accommodations,” and thus would have required churches to make costly structural changes to ensure access for all. Ultimately, the cost argument advanced by ACSI and others prevailed in keeping religious institutions from being labeled as “public accommodations,” and thus churches were permitted to remain inaccessible if they choose.

In addition to opposing the ADA on grounds of cost, church groups like the National Association of Evangelicals testified against the ADA’s Title I (employment) provisions on grounds of religious liberty. The NAE felt that the regulation of the internal employment of churches was "... an improper intrusion [of] the federal government."

en.wikipedia.org...

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Good people are good people. Responsibility/Self-Responsibility is not related to anything outside one's self.

Gender is gender - - and that is all it is. Morality and Gender are not related.

Gays getting married affects no one in a negative way. Any trumped up fear-based pseudo reasons are just that.

Originally posted by pityocamptes

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes

You guys need to relax. I'm not anti-anything - just jerking the chain. You do bring up a good point about the "rights" afforded those you seek a state sanctioned marriage. Yet, you can basically do the same thing through wills, power of attorney, and other court proceedings. So basically, why even push the issue for gay marriage when other avenues are available? Actually why would anyone even want to get married in this day and age?

You obviously have a strong religious background - - because "your religion is showing".

You say you are not religious - - and perhaps you have moved away from it - - but it has not left you.

NO - - legal paper work is not enough. There are many many factual cases of judges/authorities ruling against gay couples - - and finding bogus reasons to throw out their paper work.

Other avenues are NOT available. That is a fallacy.

Legal Government Marriage is the only guaranteed protection of a surviving spouse or children in a same sex union - - as most states only allow one parent on the birth certificate or adoption paper. (and I am not interested in your opinion on gays adopting - so leave it alone).

Key word is "had" a religious background, no longer believe in any of it. Trust me, it has left me. Legal paperwork trumps pretty much anything. Please cite me one case study wherein a same sex couple obtained the legal documentation required for property/person rights and was usurped by another judge or court in favor of the family? Other avenues are available, it is not a fallacy. I think the big push goes beyond the legal contract offered by state sanctioned marriages and really has roots in overturning or rubbing it in the face of the "religious". If you see WHO is on both sides and pushing the agenda, it goes far beyond the mere prima facia of "rights".

The issue is more about same-sex couples being deprived of the ability to obtain a legal document for marriage so that they can marry their same-sex partner.

Christians were mad when blacks got the right to vote as well, nothing new lulz

Originally posted by DuceizBack
Christians were mad when blacks got the right to vote as well, nothing new lulz

That's a very broad brush you are using.

I'd say a certain culture type was not happy when blacks got the vote.

Within that culture there were some Christians - - many Christians also fought for the equal rights of blacks.

As there are many Christians fighting for equal rights of gays.

People are individuals. Saying all people with a specific label attached to them are All Good or All Bad - - is not correct.