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Breaking: NY Passes Gay Marriage

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posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by pityocamptes
Your domestic partnership contract is basically marriage between you, god, and the church. A MARRIAGE LICENSE (note the use of LICENSE) is between you, your mate, AND the STATE - god is an after thought to make people feel all fuzzy and warm...


Thank you for explaining the difference.

Do you think LEGAL Government Licensed Marriage - - will sink in now?


And I'm not saying I agree with what LEGAL Licensed marriage is - - - but it is what it is - - - and gender should not be a factor in denying equal rights for all.




posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by pityocamptes

No, you should believe in yourself and someone you want to spend your life with. Nothing more, nothing less. Freedom is just a word, and religion has shaped the world, even in the modern 21st century. Personally, I could care less who you marry, though I am sure some of the guidelines set in place by the STATE try to sway this thought as it trys to curb disease, inbred defects, etc.


Well, YOU have my respect. You are not a hypocrite. I still do not agree with gay marriage, but I agree even less with hypocrisy, so I can respect the stand you have taken even if I disagree.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Your domestic partnership contract is basically marriage between you, god, and the church. A MARRIAGE LICENSE (note the use of LICENSE) is between you, your mate, AND the STATE - god is an after thought to make people feel all fuzzy and warm...


Thank you for explaining the difference.

Do you think LEGAL Government Licensed Marriage - - will sink in now?


And I'm not saying I agree with what LEGAL Licensed marriage is - - - but it is what it is - - - and gender should not be a factor in denying equal rights for all.


And once AGAIN, I have NEVER stated that anyone should be denied the rights that another person enjoys.

But this new law is not equality. It is a perversion of rights, liberty, and justice. I would even go so far as to call it an INSULT to gays. You're gay, why are you trying so hard to be like straight people?



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander
And once AGAIN, I have NEVER stated that anyone should be denied the rights that another person enjoys.


NO - of course not.

You just state gays can marry the opposite gender - - like straights do.

Yeah - that's equality for ya.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 





But this new law is not equality. It is a perversion of rights, liberty, and justice. I would even go so far as to call it an INSULT to gays. You're gay, why are you trying so hard to be like straight people?


Why are straight people trying so hard to keep gay people from doing similar things? If it had anything to do with rights, liberty, and justice, this law wouldn't be necessary and we wouldn't even be discussing it? Unfortunately it is necessary, it's the world we live in.
edit on 27-6-2011 by DizzyDude because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Your domestic partnership contract is basically marriage between you, god, and the church. A MARRIAGE LICENSE (note the use of LICENSE) is between you, your mate, AND the STATE - god is an after thought to make people feel all fuzzy and warm...


Thank you for explaining the difference.

Do you think LEGAL Government Licensed Marriage - - will sink in now?


And I'm not saying I agree with what LEGAL Licensed marriage is - - - but it is what it is - - - and gender should not be a factor in denying equal rights for all.


And once AGAIN, I have NEVER stated that anyone should be denied the rights that another person enjoys.

But this new law is not equality. It is a perversion of rights, liberty, and justice. I would even go so far as to call it an INSULT to gays. You're gay, why are you trying so hard to be like straight people?


Could you please explain how same-sex marriage is not about equality, explain how it is a perversion of rights, liberty, and justice, and explain how legalizing same-sex marriage is an insult to homosexuals? Because I seriously tried to wrap my mind around those statements, but I honestly couldn't understand them.

Giving same-sex couples the ability to marry their loved ones in the same manner that heterosexual couples are allowed to do is a step toward equality. It isn't a perversion of rights, liberty, and justice because the 14th Amendment of the Constitution addresses how the State cannot deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, and that every US citizen has the equal protection of the laws, with marriage laws being one of them. Making same-sex marriage illegal goes against the 14th Amendment, which by definition makes illegalizing same-sex marriage unconstitutional.

Homosexuals are not trying so hard to be like straight people, they are trying to marry their same-sex partners. That's all this issue is about. And really, American society for so long has been trying to impose heterosexual standards upon the gay community in order to stamp out homosexuality because it is "immoral, unnatural, and isn't normal." So American society is more or less trying to force homosexuals to act straight. If anything, homosexuals are trying to deviate from that type of societal confinement, they are trying to act less "heterosexual."



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by NuroSlam
I disagree with this "law", not because I am anti gay, not because I believe "marriage" should only be between a man and a woman, nor any religious reasoning. Why then, you ask. Because it is one more level of regulation and ultimately control over the individuals natural rights. Now had the "law" been "The state shall no longer regulate the terms of marriage between individuals" it would have my support.
edit on 24-6-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)


Natural rights cannot exist in any practical capacity without legal imposition, Constitutional law, official recognitation of these rights as well as their enforcement. Granted, the government and the legal structure within the United States has clamped down pretty tightly on a lot of rights and freedoms over the decades, but legalizing same-sex marriage is actually a small step closer to your more liberal definition of what marriage should be where you state: "The state shall no longer regulate the terms of marriage between individuals."

However, that can be dangerous. Marriage does need to be observed in a legal manner on some level. I'd say regulate the terms of marriage between individuals just a little bit so that it becomes: "The state shall no longer regulate the terms of marriage between consenting adults."



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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Some of you seem to be hung on the "gay" factor. Why? I'm not gay, far from it, but really ask yourself WHY? Is it because you have been told your whole life that it is wrong? Once again, why? From what agenda have you been told this? As I have mentioned before it ALL boils down to religion. Religion has shaped this country, no doubt about that. As an example, look at ancient Greece and Rome. Why was homosexuality something to be not ashamed of, and actually pushed out into the public eye (phalic symbols, drawings, you name it, they were not shy)? It was their culture built upon RELIGION. Their religious code DID NOT, I repeat, DID NOT make such things wrong in the "eyes of god". However, Xian beliefs and the Bible explicitly condemn homosexuality.

TRUE rights, as they exist in a society should allow for what you want, however, this does not make for a conducive civilization. Remember, a civilization is about giving up certain "rights" to the STATE for the benefit of ALL. For that reason, TRUE freedom, and "rights" will never exist, except for OUTSIDE a predetermined "civilization". Even then, tribal morality laws come into affect and may not allow the "right" of homo sexuality (marriage/union) or incest, as even tribes realize that such actions tend to generate genetic defects, and no procreation (in terms of strict homosexuality unions) which leads to the disintegration of said tribe, making them weak from within and probable for collapse/conquer.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by pityocamptes
TRUE rights, as they exist in a society should allow for what you want, however, this does not make for a conducive civilization. Remember, a civilization is about giving up certain "rights" to the STATE for the benefit of ALL. For that reason, TRUE freedom, and "rights" will never exist, except for OUTSIDE a predetermined "civilization". Even then, tribal morality laws come into affect and may not allow the "right" of homo sexuality (marriage/union) or incest, as even tribes realize that such actions tend to generate genetic defects, and no procreation (in terms of strict homosexuality unions) which leads to the disintegration of said tribe, making them weak from within and probable for collapse/conquer.


Projected Fear Mongering.

I say we get rid of religion and keep the gays (no offense to religious gays).



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes
TRUE rights, as they exist in a society should allow for what you want, however, this does not make for a conducive civilization. Remember, a civilization is about giving up certain "rights" to the STATE for the benefit of ALL. For that reason, TRUE freedom, and "rights" will never exist, except for OUTSIDE a predetermined "civilization". Even then, tribal morality laws come into affect and may not allow the "right" of homo sexuality (marriage/union) or incest, as even tribes realize that such actions tend to generate genetic defects, and no procreation (in terms of strict homosexuality unions) which leads to the disintegration of said tribe, making them weak from within and probable for collapse/conquer.


Projected Fear Mongering.

I say we get rid of religion and keep the gays (no offense to religious gays).




I can see that in some aspects from the news, etc. Yet, when boiled down, what is the fear? That society will no longer be able to populate? That may be a good thing considering explosive populations around the globe. Fear that somehow they are different? Isn't differences in life, that which actually defines life itself? Fear that somehow they will spread disease? Hetrosexuals spread disease just as prolific. How about fear of gods retribution upon a society that freely entertains the idea of allowing homosexuality? Hmmmm, perhaps now we are getting closer to the truth, and that the projected fear mongering is religious based? Thus this idea propagates the fundamentalist idea that they should NOT have the same rights as hetrosexual people because after all MARRIAGE (for the vast majority of people who cannot see the forest from the trees) is a union between GOD, and the COUPLE - thus GOD frowns upon homosexuality. No one ever thinks, why did I just purchase that LICENSE???



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Your domestic partnership contract is basically marriage between you, god, and the church. A MARRIAGE LICENSE (note the use of LICENSE) is between you, your mate, AND the STATE - god is an after thought to make people feel all fuzzy and warm...


Thank you for explaining the difference.

Do you think LEGAL Government Licensed Marriage - - will sink in now?


And I'm not saying I agree with what LEGAL Licensed marriage is - - - but it is what it is - - - and gender should not be a factor in denying equal rights for all.


And once AGAIN, I have NEVER stated that anyone should be denied the rights that another person enjoys.

But this new law is not equality. It is a perversion of rights, liberty, and justice. I would even go so far as to call it an INSULT to gays. You're gay, why are you trying so hard to be like straight people?



You want to know something else? I seriously think that this law will set some MAJOR legal precedence. When hetrosexual couples get divorced the courts usually (probably almost always) side with the woman (for some reason our society still treats women like they are weaker, yet they are equal, hmmm - makes no sense but look at the female school teacher on male student punishments that have come out lately, vs a male school teacher on female student as regards to consensual sex). Now that it is legal for homosexual marriages what happens when they divorce and its a male/male or female/female contract with the state. How is the STATE going to rule? I can see them telling these same sex marriages to split and go on your way with no support from either side. Now how will this influence the courts decisions for decades of empathy/sympathy for the female in a traditional hetrosexual marriage? Should be interesting...



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by pityocamptes
MARRIAGE (for the vast majority of people who cannot see the forest from the trees) is a union between GOD, and the COUPLE - thus GOD frowns upon homosexuality. No one ever thinks, why did I just purchase that LICENSE???


Gays are People - just People.

Anyone looking for something more then that - - its their problem.

Legal Government Marriage - - is about the benefits/rights (whatever) not afforded by any other means. The government license name is Marriage. To deny these benefits/rights (whatever) on the basis of gender is unconstitutional.

How people choose to personally define their own marriage is up to them.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by pityocamptes

You want to know something else? I seriously think that this law will set some MAJOR legal precedence. When hetrosexual couples get divorced the courts usually (probably almost always) side with the woman (for some reason our society still treats women like they are weaker, yet they are equal, hmmm - makes no sense but look at the female school teacher on male student punishments that have come out lately, vs a male school teacher on female student as regards to consensual sex). Now that it is legal for homosexual marriages what happens when they divorce and its a male/male or female/female contract with the state. How is the STATE going to rule? I can see them telling these same sex marriages to split and go on your way with no support from either side. Now how will this influence the courts decisions for decades of empathy/sympathy for the female in a traditional hetrosexual marriage? Should be interesting...


Do I want to know something else? NO!

Do you always do this? Look and create problems in your head - - that don't exist.

Someone once told me looking for the negative - what's wrong in the world - or what could be wrong is like: "Praying for the Wrong thing".

You are putting a lot of unneeded negative energy into the universe.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes

You want to know something else? I seriously think that this law will set some MAJOR legal precedence. When hetrosexual couples get divorced the courts usually (probably almost always) side with the woman (for some reason our society still treats women like they are weaker, yet they are equal, hmmm - makes no sense but look at the female school teacher on male student punishments that have come out lately, vs a male school teacher on female student as regards to consensual sex). Now that it is legal for homosexual marriages what happens when they divorce and its a male/male or female/female contract with the state. How is the STATE going to rule? I can see them telling these same sex marriages to split and go on your way with no support from either side. Now how will this influence the courts decisions for decades of empathy/sympathy for the female in a traditional hetrosexual marriage? Should be interesting...


Do I want to know something else? NO!

Do you always do this? Look and create problems in your head - - that don't exist.

Someone once told me looking for the negative - what's wrong in the world - or what could be wrong is like: "Praying for the Wrong thing".

You are putting a lot of unneeded negative energy into the universe.



What? You are dreaming if you don't think religion influences society, laws, etc. Putting too much negativity into the world? What the hell is that supposed to mean????



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by pityocamptes
What? You are dreaming if you don't think religion influences society, laws, etc. Putting too much negativity into the world? What the hell is that supposed to mean????


Well - we see who won this round in New York - don't we.

The constraints of organized religion in America is changing - - and has been for a long time.

The conservative Christian Right - with their hard push to control government and people's lives - - has not gone unnoticed. They are acting desperate.

There is decline in church attendance and a rise in Atheism. YAY!

Its way way past time for intelligence and logic to be the predominate influence on society - - over judgmental mystical Dogma.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by pityocamptes
What? You are dreaming if you don't think religion influences society, laws, etc. Putting too much negativity into the world? What the hell is that supposed to mean????


Well - we see who won this round in New York - don't we.

The constraints of organized religion in America is changing - - and has been for a long time.

The conservative Christian Right - with their hard push to control government and people's lives - - has not gone unnoticed. They are acting desperate.

There is decline in church attendance and a rise in Atheism. YAY!

Its way way past time for intelligence and logic to be the predominate influence on society - - over judgmental mystical Dogma.






I agree. Religion has had its fingers in the pie way too long.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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I am happy for the committed couples who can finally have the rights I enjoy as a married straight person.

In Tennessee right now, gays have little rights. Teachers can't even legally stop a bully from calling a kid gay, or faggot (hope that's okay mods). The state passed the "don't say gay bill". The governor also interfered when the city of Nashville, Davidson County tried to make sure any company contracted by them could not discriminate based on sexual orientation. (I thought republicans were all for smaller government, yet our republican senate and governor over rule a local measure that was voted on and approved.) We continue to move backward because people misunderstand what gay rights is about. This isn't some agenda with a goal to undermine the moral fabric of our society. This is about basic rights.

Right now, in most states, if you are gay or lesbian and your partner gets critically ill, if the family of your partner doesn't like or agree their son/daughter's choice of lifestyle, you will be banned from being at their side in the ICU. The family can legally cut you out of your partner's life if he/she becomes disabled or unable to speak for his/herself. If your partner dies, your partner's family can legally take everything from you, even if you'd been together for several decades. Your employer also does not have to allow you time off from work to grieve for your partner. Your partner can't be covered under your benefits. That is what this is about. Just being able to live well with the person you love and are in a committed relationship with.

When one looks at it from that light, gay marriage makes sense. We should leave the morality arguments to the side. I don't like certain foods or music, does that mean they should be taken away from everyone else who does?



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by tncryptogal
I am happy for the committed couples who can finally have the rights I enjoy as a married straight person.

In Tennessee right now, gays have little rights. Teachers can't even legally stop a bully from calling a kid gay, or faggot (hope that's okay mods). The state passed the "don't say gay bill". The governor also interfered when the city of Nashville, Davidson County tried to make sure any company contracted by them could not discriminate based on sexual orientation. (I thought republicans were all for smaller government, yet our republican senate and governor over rule a local measure that was voted on and approved.) We continue to move backward because people misunderstand what gay rights is about. This isn't some agenda with a goal to undermine the moral fabric of our society. This is about basic rights.

Right now, in most states, if you are gay or lesbian and your partner gets critically ill, if the family of your partner doesn't like or agree their son/daughter's choice of lifestyle, you will be banned from being at their side in the ICU. The family can legally cut you out of your partner's life if he/she becomes disabled or unable to speak for his/herself. If your partner dies, your partner's family can legally take everything from you, even if you'd been together for several decades. Your employer also does not have to allow you time off from work to grieve for your partner. Your partner can't be covered under your benefits. That is what this is about. Just being able to live well with the person you love and are in a committed relationship with.

When one looks at it from that light, gay marriage makes sense. We should leave the morality arguments to the side. I don't like certain foods or music, does that mean they should be taken away from everyone else who does?


Morality aside, it still does have some other issues, such as non propagation of species, and non-differing sexes - male/female who have been shown to provide a complete mental stability for adopted children.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by pityocamptes
Morality aside, it still does have some other issues, such as non propagation of species, and non-differing sexes - male/female who have been shown to provide a complete mental stability for adopted children.


This is the lamest invented reason I think I've seen. But people keep repeating it. It's as if you think that when gay people get married, all straight people are going to stop having sex and having kids and the entire species will die out. Well, guess what. No more and no less people are going to be breeding because gay people can get married. The propagation of the species is doing just fine. To think that gay people marrying is somehow going to change this is the most illogical and nonsensical reason I've heard against gay marriage.

I'm straight. My husband and I don't have kids. Just like gay people, we married and will produce no children of our own... Has this had a negative effect on the propagation of the species? No. So HOW will gay marriage effect this?

Gay couples have also been shown to provide a complete mental stability for adopted children.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Morality aside, it still does have some other issues, such as non propagation of species, and non-differing sexes - male/female who have been shown to provide a complete mental stability for adopted children.


This is the lamest invented reason I think I've seen. But people keep repeating it. It's as if you think that when gay people get married, all straight people are going to stop having sex and having kids and the entire species will die out. Well, guess what. No more and no less people are going to be breeding because gay people can get married. The propagation of the species is doing just fine. To think that gay people marrying is somehow going to change this is the most illogical and nonsensical reason I've heard against gay marriage.

I'm straight. My husband and I don't have kids. Just like gay people, we married and will produce no children of our own... Has this had a negative effect on the propagation of the species? No. So HOW will gay marriage effect this?

Gay couples have also been shown to provide a complete mental stability for adopted children.





Well, not really. Lets see abortion has killed how many millions? In most western countries populations are going down, allowing for the influx of foreigners, which dilute the nation. So this is NOT a nonsensical reason. For example lets say there are 10 million gay couples - thats the potential of 10-20 million "lost" children or generation. Studies have been conducted on overall mental stability, etc. as in gender role, for hetro vs homo couples with children.




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