sorry, let me try that again
i'm new here
tell me what history books you're reading
i hope that you realise that there are people writing history with an agenda
and something to gain
i am actually someone who believed that israel was in the right untill i learned more on whats actually going on.
and i've tried to learn about the issues from various sources so..... you know
I wonder what sources tell you that Israel murders and turtures Palestinians, I would also be very happy if you could tell me when was the last time
this happened. I know people who served in combat and special forces units in the IDF, I can tell that turture or just murder for no reason is
EXTREMELY rare, and if it does happen - the soldiers who are responsible for it are put in jail and will never serve in our army again.
The palestinians, on the other hand, are glad to kill an Israeli on every oppertunity they have. But its ok, after all they are poor poeple who got
invaded and murdered by the evil Jews who think they are "the chosen people", right?
We didn't even touch them untill they decided its time to blow up some buses full of children, or to murder some jewish families because it will
probably get them closer to allah. Not to mention that they lived in low life quality long before we came - exactly as millions of arabs live in
I don't believe Chomsky has made that mistake as i thought he might have made that mistake too and went back and read what he was saying. you do
realise that he is a jew.
I realise he is a jew, unfortunately I've met dozens of jews who know nothing about Judaism (and I'm not talking about people who just don't agree
with my personal opinions I'm talking about people who believe in things which directrly contradict proven facts), and it seems like he is one of
i think you missed the point
i was refering to the religious justifications
also being "a choosen people" why would you need that.
shouldn't you be so spiritualy enlightened enough to realise that where you live is irrelevant and that how you live is of the most importance?
the other point is wasted on you as you don't seem to believe that palestinians have been murdered and tortured.
Antisemitism is a much more complex problem than you think it is, especially today, but the main point here that it IS imprtant were Jews live,
because in most european countries (for example) they will meet antisemitism regardless of their actions. I know this from my personal experiance. And
this was the situation even before Israel and before WW2.
The whole idea (and the ONLY idea) of Zionism is that those problem could be solved (or at least avoided) if the Jews had a state of their own.
And exactely what relegious justifications are you reffering to? Religion or not - It is proven that the jews were here long before the Arabs (but
thats not even the point), and the arabs who were here didn't belong to some special ethnic group which is called "Palestinians". They never had a
state, they never wanted a state, and they lived in a very primitive way of life (similar to the way they live today). The argument and the whole
problem is not about "God promised us this land", no one in Israel even cares about those stuff. Only people from foreign countries seem to think
that this has something to do with it. Most of the land didn't even belong to the "Palestinians"! We bought it legally from Britain, we didn't
just come here and started kicking out arabs while shouting "God promised us this land!".
And what is this stuff about the "Chosen people"? Hell, most of the jews in Israel aren't even religious, they don't care that much about god,
they don't even pray. No one - except people from other countries who think they know whats going on here - gives a damn about what was writen in the
We wouldn't even made a state here if Britain didn't agree to help and sell lands to us (and there were even proposals to make a Jewish state in
uganda and argentina before that). But instead of living in peace - the arabs chose to murder and kill. We didn't invade their lands, we didn't
steal anything from them, we didn't attack them, we just wanted to live in peace in a place of our own.
did you read the actual articles?
did you read the second link?
No, reading them now.
Originally posted by sp23
No matter who was their first, or who bought how much land from who, or whatever deity promissed you the land, theirs no excuse for the oppression
that the palestinians have been under since the occupation of the territories. They've been held in sort of a captive market, which means Isreal
allows no growth or development competitive to Isreali business. Its no wonder theirs massive popular dissent and protest, and even violence coming
from the palestinians. I mean a palestinian farmer is alowed to use something like as much water as the average Isreali household. But what does it
matter anyway, the US and Isreal will continue to do whatever they want, and nothing will ever change
Hmmm... so you think we restrict them because we don't want competitive development? The arabs in the area had zero development in the last few
hunderds years, while israel - which exists less that 60 years - is one of the most technologically advanced countries on earth. Most of this
technology, by the way, is, and was, developed only by Israel, and not bought from the US as you might think. Sorry, buy saying that we fear
competitive palestinian buisness is nothing but ignorance.
Now, the important thing is Better life = easier to execute terror attacks. They don't murder because they live in "captive markets", they live
there BECAUSE they murder. Note that ALL israeli restrictions came as a reponse to terror attacks, attacks which started happening when (and partly
because) the palestinians waren't restricted yet. More food, more water, more land, more money means only more weapons, more suicide bombers, more
missiles, and more dead Israeli citizens, thats why they were restricted in the first place. Besides, how do you explain the fact that Military
operations and restrictions only decreased terror attacks, while peace negotiations only increased them?
[edit on 11/8/04 by Transc3ndent]