99% Undeniable Conclusive Evidence That 9/11 Was An Inside Job

reply to post by TupacShakur


Please provide the names of the witnesses who saw 'molten steel' in the basement? Can you?

reply to post by spoor


My point exactly genius.. I will never believe that an impact of a plane in a building designed to with stand the impact of plane and the combustion of jet fuel brought down three massive steel/concrete buildings. So I ask you and all debunkers what is your belief on how these buildings collapsed in a free fall. If you are a debunker your response will have to be the two planes/jet fuel/and fire as the cause.

That's why I will continue to ask all you idiots to post these word: "I believe three massive buildings were brought down by jet fuel/plane impact/and normal hot burning fire". That's if you truly believe that.


But not one debunker can do that.

reply to post by proveyance


You make all good points, and I am a truther like you, but its a theory that can never be proven. I think the only physical evidence is the free-fall speed of the three collapsed buildings. But you make some amazing points and don't give up with your investigation.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

So let me guess- you're one of those "the WTC was destroyed by laser beams from outer space" people. This is the "inside job" Jesse Ventura supports, after all-

Jesse Ventura discusses energy weapons from outer space on the Alex Jones show

It seems to me this whole 9/11 conspiracy is turning into a gigantic vortex of "crackpot" and it's threatening to suck you in.

I certainly haven't heard that interview before haha. Yeah I agree they went completely overboard there with speculating if nuclear weapons and government technology were used to demolish the towers. All it would have take were controlled explosives, they don't need some microwave particle beam from outer space to do that. Regardless of that crazy idea fest, I still have lots of respect for Jesse Ventura and Alex jones.

reply to post by esdad71

Please provide the names of the witnesses who saw 'molten steel' in the basement? Can you?

I'll do some digging. In the mean time, why don't you provide me with the names of the witnesses who saw Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon.

reply to post by dilly1


The buildings did not fall at free fall speeds but debris did. Do you understand that? It is not that difficult. Also, please name one other instance where a fully loaded airliner, not a WW2 bomber, hit a building and it withstood that impact while it was travelling at over 500 mph.

reply to post by TupacShakur


Here you go....they are from all walks of life and they are real quotes....not here say..

Steve Anderson, Director of Communications, USA TODAY

A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye.

It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke.
Deb Anlauf

Anlauf was watching TV coverage of the Trade Center burning shortly before 9:30 a.m. when she decided to return to her 14th-floor room from another part of the hotel. Once in her room, she heard a "loud roar" and looked out the window to see what was going on.
"Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window," Anlauf said during a telephone interview from her hotel room this morning. "You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook."

David Battle

Battle, an office worker at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said. "And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking."
Omar Campo

Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head.

"It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane," Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here."
Gary Bauer, former Presidential candidate

“I was going past the Pentagon, really inching a yard or so every couple of minutes. I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine.
“I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn’t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment.

Mickey Bell

Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane´s wings as it sped by him. In shock, he got into his truck, which had been parked in the trailer compound, and sped away. He wandered around Arlington in his truck and tried to make wireless phone calls. He ended up back at Singleton´s headquarters in Gaithersburg two hours later, according to President Singleton, not remembering much.

The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn´t realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell´s work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal, but Bell had no idea what had happened.
Mark Bright, Defense Protective Service officer

Mark Bright, actually saw the plane hit the building. He had been manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance to the building.

"I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area," he said. "I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." The plane would have been seconds from impact -- the annex is only a few hundred yards from the Pentagon.

He said he heard the plane "power-up" just before it struck the Pentagon. "As soon as it struck the building I just called in an attack, because I knew it couldn't be accidental," Bright said. He jumped into his police cruiser and headed to the area.
James R. Cissell

''Out of my peripheral vision,'' Cissell said, ''I saw this plane coming in and it was low - and getting lower.

''If you couldn't touch it from standing on the highway, you could by standing on your car.''

In the next seconds dozens of things flashed through his mind.

''I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board,'' Cissell said.

He remembers the helipad the plane flew over before smacking into the Pentagon was close enough to him that ''I could have thrown a baseball at it and hit it.''
Dan Creed

He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off.

"It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said.

"I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," Creed recalls.
Don Fortunato

“Traffic was at a standstill, so I parked on the shoulder, not far from the scene and ran to the site. Next to me was a cab from D.C., its windshield smashed out by pieces of lampposts. There were pieces of the plane all over the highway, pieces of wing, I think.”
Afework Hagos

Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in."
Tom Hovis

Being a former transport type (60's era) I cannot understand how that plane hit where it did giving the direction the aircraft was taking at the time.

As most know, the Pentagon lies at the bottom of two hills from the west with the east side being next to the river at 14th street bridge. One hill is at the Navy Annex and the other is Arlington Cemetery. The plane came up I-395 also known as Shirley Hwy. (most likely used as a reference point.) The plane had been seen making a lazy pattern in the no fly zone over the White House and US Cap. Why the plane did not hit incoming traffic coming down the river from the north to Reagan Nat'l. is beyond me. Strangely, no one at the Reagan Tower noticed the aircraft. Andrews AFB radar should have also picked up the aircraft I would think. Nevertheless, the aircarft went southwest near Springfield and then veered left over Arlington and then put the nose down coming over Ft Myer picking off trees and light poles near the helicopter pad next to building. It was as if he leveled out at the last minute and put it square into the building. The wings came off as if it went through an arch way leaving a hole in the side of the building it seems a little larger than the wide body of the aircraft. The entry point was so clean that the roof (shown in news photo) fell in on the wreckage.
Terrance Kean

Terrance Kean, 35, who lives in a 14-story building nearby, heard the loud jet engines and glanced out his window.

"I saw this very, very large passenger jet," said the architect, who had been packing for a move. "It just plowed right into the side of the Pentagon. The nose penetrated into the portico. And then it sort of disappeared, and there was fire and smoke everywhere. . . . It was very sort of surreal."
Charles H. Krohn

One of the aircraft's engines somehow ricocheted out of the building and arched into the Pentagon's mall parking area between the main building and the new loading dock facility, said Charles H. Krohn, the Army's deputy chief of public affairs. Those fleeing the building heard a loud secondary explosion about 10 min. after the initial impact.
Maj. Lincoln Leibner

Maj. Leibner drove in and made it as far as the south parking lot, where he got out on foot. "I heard the plane first," he said. "I thought it was a flyover Arlington cemetery."

From his vantage point, Maj. Leibner looked up and saw the plane come in. "I was about 100 yards away," he said. "You could see through the windows of the aircraft. I saw it hit."

The plane came in hard and level and was flown full throttle into the building, dead center mass, Maj. Leibner said. "The plane completely entered the building," he said. "I got a little repercussion, from the sound, the blast. I've heard artillery, and that was louder than the loudest has to offer.
Elaine McCusker

Traffic is normally slow right around the Pentagon as the road winds and we line up to cross the 14th Street bridge heading into the District of Columbia. I don’t know what made me look up, but I did and I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating. My first thought was just ‘No, no, no, no,’ because it was obvious the plane was not heading to nearby Reagan National Airport. It was going to crash.
William Middleton Sr.

William Middleton Sr., was running his street sweeper through the cemetery when he heard a harsh whistling sound overhead. Middleton looked up and spotted a commercial jet whose pilot seemed to be fighting with his own craft.
Middleton said the plane was no higher than the tops of telephone poles as it lurched toward the Pentagon. The jet accelerated in the final few hundred yards before it tore into the building.

Mare Ann Owens

Looking up didn't tell me what type of plane it was because it was so close I could only see the bottom. Realising the Pentagon was its target, I didn't think the careering, full-throttled craft would get that far. Its downward angle was too sharp, its elevation of maybe 50 feet, too low. Street lights toppled as the plane barely cleared the Interstate 395 overpass.

The thought that I was about to die was immediate and certain. This plane was going to hit me along with all the other commuters trapped on Washington Boulevard.

Gripping the steering wheel of my vibrating car, I involuntarily ducked as the wobbling plane thundered over my head. Once it passed, I raised slightly and grimaced as the left wing dipped and scraped the helicopter area just before the nose crashed into the southwest wall of the Pentagon.
Christine Peterson

I was at a complete stop on the road in front of the helipad at the Pentagon; what I had thought would be a shortcut was as slow as the other routes I had taken that morning. I looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane flying so low I said, “holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car” (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing.

And then the plane crashed. My mind could not comprehend what had happened. Where did the plane go? For some reason I expected it to bounce off the Pentagon wall in pieces. But there was no plane visible, only huge billows of smoke and torrents of fire.
Frank Probst

American Airlines Flight 77 approached from the west, coming in low over the nearby five-story Navy Annex on a hill overlooking the Pentagon.

"He has lights off, wheels up, nose down," Probst recalled. The plane seemed to be accelerating directly toward him. He froze.

"I knew I was dead," he said later. "The only thing I thought was, 'Damn, my wife has to go to another funeral, and I'm not going to see my two boys again.'."

He dove to his right. He recalls the engine passing on one side of him, about six feet away.

The plane's right wing went through a generator trailer "like butter," Probst said. The starboard engine hit a low cement wall and blew apart.
Clyde Ragland

Ragland described billowing black smoke and "what looked like white confetti raining down everywhere." He said it soon became apparent "that the 'confetti' was little bits of airplane, falling down after being flung high into the bright, blue sky."
Tim Timmerman

A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."
Thomas D. Trapasso

Thomas D. Trapasso, a political appointee in the Clinton Administration who is now looking for work, was making telephone calls from his deck in Arlington Village, about 1 mi. south of the Pentagon and just west of the Interstate 395 (I-395) highway. He was startled by the large American Airlines aircraft flying about 300 ft. overhead. "The engines were just screaming, and the wheels were up," Trapasso said. "It disappeared over the trees, and I heard a boom. I knew something awful had happened--that an airplane had crashed somewhere in Washington, D.C.
Alan Wallace

About 9:40, Alan Wallace had finished fixing the foam metering valve on the back of his fire truck parked in the Pentagon fire station and walked to the front of the station. He looked up and saw a jetliner coming straight at him. It was about 25 feet off the ground, no landing wheels visible, a few hundred yards away and closing fast.

"Runnnnn!" he yelled to a pal. There was no time to look back, barely time to scramble. He made it about 30 feet, heard a terrible roar, felt the heat, and dove underneath a van, skinning his stomach as he slid along the blacktop, sailing under it as though he were riding a luge. The van protected him against burning metal that was flying around. A few seconds later he was sliding back out to check on his friend and then race back to the firetruck. He jumped in, threw it into gear, but the accelerator was dead. The entire back of the truck was destroyed, the cab on fire. He grabbed the radio headset and called the main station at Fort Myer to report the unimaginable.

The sun was still low in the sky, obscured by the Pentagon and the enormous billowing clouds of acrid smoke, making it hauntingly dark. The ground was on fire. Trees were on fire. Hot slices of aluminum were everywhere

Like I said, do a little research. this is not debunking it is simply the truth...I'll be waiting on those names...

reply to post by esdad71

The buildings did not fall at free fall speeds but debris did. Do you understand that? It is not that difficult. Also, please name one other instance where a fully loaded airliner, not a WW2 bomber, hit a building and it withstood that impact while it was travelling at over 500 mph.

If you would watch the video that I've asked you to watch four hundred times, you would see that they indeed fell with no resistance through the path of greatest resistance. You don't have to be an architect or engineer to know that's completely impossible, and that detail alone is undeniable proof that the official story is a lie, and it's just one of the many details brought up in that video which you refuse to watch.

Please name another instance where a skyscraper has collapsed from fire damage alone. In the past 50 years there have been over 100 fires within skyscrapers, but on 9/11, for the first time in history, three of them collapse from the very damage that has never collapsed a skyscraper?

Why did this one that burned for over 24 hours in Madrid not collapse?
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If fire made WTCs 1, 2, and 7 collapse all in the same day, why is this one still standing?

What about this one in Shanghai?
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How about the Caracas, Venezuela fire that burned for 17 hours?
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Or the First Interstate Bank fire that burned for 3.5 hours?
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What about this fire?
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So on 9/11, the twin towers and WTC7, all leased by Larry Silverstein, collapsed, despite the fact that WTC7 was the farthest tower away from the twin towers collapse, and the towers closer to the building, which were not owned by Larry Silverstein, didn't collapse? I guess Larry Silverstein was unlucky, or lucky if you consider the massive insurance pay-off from the double whammy terrorist attack.

Have you found the evidence for molten steel that you claimed to have?

Perhaps if you just pretend it exists it'll magically appear.

Or you could try to change the subject...

reply to post by TupacShakur


I watched it when it first came out just like I watch Micheal Moore's films. They may be biased but hidden within you may find a hint to something else or answer a question. You can tell someone to watch the video 100 times and that will not make it true.

Now, the buildings you are describing are a) not of a similar design, they all used more concrete/structure and b) they had no structural damage from two plans slamming into them. There was no additional structural damage except for the Madrid tower but it had steel reinforced concrete in the core. The WTC was a tube in tube design.

also, there was a steel frame that collapsed. the McCormick Center. Although not a high rise, it shows that fire can weaken and will collapse.

Now, please use this criteria when finding a building comparable to the WTC7 and the collapse...

Find a steel frame building at least 40 stories high

2) Which takes up a whole city block

3) And is a "Tube in a tube" design

4) Which came off its core columns at the bottom floors (Earthquake, fire, whatever - WTC 7)

5) Which was struck by another building or airliner and had structural damage as a result.

6) And weakened by fire for over 6 hours

7) And had trusses that were bolted on with two 5/8" bolts.

reply to post by esdad71

Please provide the names of the witnesses who saw 'molten steel' in the basement? Can you?

Yes.

The fires got very intense down there and actually melted beams where it was molten steel that was being dug up.

-- Richard Riggs, Debris Removal Specialist in “World Trade Center: Rise and Fall of an American Icon,” THC, 2002. (Watch at www.911conspiracy.tv... — His name and title shows at video run time 51:26. The quote is from vrt 54:00.)

…NYDS played a major role in debris removal — everything from molten steel beams to human remains….

--Kathy Dawkins, NY Dept. of Sanitation spokeswoman: (Tom R. Arterburn, “D-Day: NY Sanitation Workers’ Challenge of a Lifetime” Apr. 1, 2002 at wasteage.com... )

Turner himself crawled through an opening and down crumpled stairwells to the subway, five levels below ground. He remembers seeing in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow–molten metal dripping from a beam–but found no signs of life.

– Marci McDonald, “They came to help at Ground Zero. What they experienced they can’t forget” www.usnews.com...

Now let’s hear from the only real journalist given unrestricted access to Ground Zero for the duration of the cleanup. He was below the surface of “the pile,” exploring with engineers on more than one occasion.

…the rattle of cascading debris, the ominous groaning of weakened structures overhead, or, in the early days, the streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole.

-- William Langewiesche, American Ground: Unbuilding the World Trade Center, North Point Press, New York, 2002, p. 32.

Tully said that there were hot spots where he observed ‘literally molten steel.’ Asked about what could have caused such intense heat, Tully said, ‘Think about the jet fuel.’

- Christopher Bollyn, “Foreign Firms Destroyed Crucial Evidence,” August 14, 2002, online at www.bollyn.com...
Peter Tully of Tully Construction was the contractor responsible for the eastern quadrant of the pile– the South Tower, WTC 4 and 5, and the 425,000 square foot underground mall.

I saw melting of girders in World Trade Center.

– Structural Engineer Abolhassan Astaneh at www.pbs.org...

‘It’s still cooking,’ said Thomas O’Connor, who manages the construction and engineering work at the site for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owned the buildings and arranged for the tour through the basement.

In the days after the collapse of the towers two months ago, the tangled steel was still so hot that it glowed like charcoal briquets in the unlighted basement, Mr. O’Connor said, adding, ‘For seven weeks it was surreal down here.’

-- James Glanz, “Below Rubble, a Tour of a Still-Burning Hell,” NY Times, Nov. 15, 2001, New York Edition p. B1. Online at www.nytimes.com... (See the same article to hear this: “A three-foot stalagmite of steel, which looks for all the world like a drip candle, sits next to one of the immense steel columns that held up the north face of the tower.”)

In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel,

-- Greg Fuchek, vice president of sales for LinksPoint Inc., maker of the GlobalPoint Global Positioning System receiver used to track debris and/or human remains recovery locations in the pile. (Trudy Walsh, “Handheld App Eased Recovery Tasks,” Government Computer News, Vol. 21 No. 27 a, 9/11/2002. Archived at 911research.wtc7.net... )

...seeing a crane lift a steel beam vertically from deep within the catacombs of Ground Zero. ‘It was dripping from the molten steel,’ he said.

--Joe “Toolie” O’Toole, Bronx firefighter and recovery worker. (Jennifer Lin, “Recovery Worker Reflects On Months Spent At Ground Zero,” Knight Ridder Newspapers, May 29, 2002. Archived at 911research.wtc7.net... )

It took me a long time to realize it and I found myself actually one day wanting to get back. Why? Because I felt more comfortable. I realized it was actually warmer on site. The fires burned, up to 2,000 degrees, underground for quite a while before they actually got down to those areas and they cooled off.

I talked to many contractors and they said they actually saw molten metal trapped, beams had just totally had been melted because of the heat. So this was the kind of heat that was going on when those airplanes hit the upper floors. It was just demolishing heat.

- Herb Trimpe, “The Chaplain’s Tale,” transcript of audio interview at RecordOnline.com, archived at 911research.wtc7.net...

‘Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense,’ reports Alison Geyh, PhD. ‘In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel.’

--Rod Graham, “Mobilizing Public Health,” Johns Hopkins Public Health Magazine, Late Fall, 2001. Online at www.jhsph.edu...

A veteran of disasters from the Mississippi floods [to] Mt. St. Helens, Burger said it reminded him most of the volcano, if he forgot he was in downtown Manhattan. ‘Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helen’s [sic] and the thousands who fled that disaster,’ he said.

Francesca Lyman, “Messages In the Dust,” National Environmental Health Association, Sept. 2003. Online at www.neha.org... (Ron Burger was “a public health advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who arrived in New York to help September 11.”)

Describing a speaking appearance by Leslie Robertson (structural engineer who worked on the World Trade Center), at the National Council of Structural Engineers Associations 9th Annual Conference, one source wrote the following:

As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running.

(James Williams, “SEAUNEWS, The Newsletter of the Structural Engineers Association of Utah,” October 2001, p. 3. Source file expired: -www.seau.org... Articles quoting this source include: wtc.nist.gov... and 911research.wtc7.net... )

You’d get down below and you’d see molten steel– molten steel running down the channelways, like you were in a foundry– like lava.

--Firefighter Captain Philip Ruvolo
Source is Etienne Sauret’s film “Collateral Damages” (2003).

A review of of Etienne Sauret’s documentary “Collateral Damage” describes firemen recalling:

heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel.

(Lumenick, Lou, “Unflinching Look Among the Ruins,” New York Post, March 3, 2004.)

They showed us many fascinating slides” he continued, “ranging from molten metal which was still red hot weeks after the event, to 4-inch thick steel plates sheared and bent in the disaster.

-- Dr. Keith Eaton at web.archive.org...://www.istructe.org.uk/about/files/president/Tour-2002-NewYork.pdf

Smoke constantly poured from the peaks. One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers’ remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots.

– Guy Lounsbury of New York Air National Guard’s 109th Air Wing at findarticles.com...

He remembers seeing in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow — molten metal dripping from a beam — but found no signs of life.

– Lee Turner of The Boone County Firefighters at www.usnews.com...

Richard Garlock, a structural engineer for LERA said ‘Going below, it was smoky and really hot… The debris past the columns was red-hot, molten, running.’

--www.pbs.org...

The steel was so hot from the jet fuel that, uh, it was literally steaming. Your boots would melt in certain areas. That’s how hot it was. The steel was coming out red in certain areas for the first couple weeks, at least.

-- Michael Casale, Project Supt., Mazzocchi Wrecking in Modern Marvels Demolition segment on WTC Ground Zero

Vance Deisingnore, OSHA Officer at WTC, reported the following to Jim McKay, Post-Gazette Staff Writer, on September 11, 2002 ‘a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel.’

- web.archive.org...://www.thenewliberator.com/wethepeople.htm

‘The [NYFD] people who called us had been killed,’ Atlas considered as she surveyed the tons and acres of wreckage. ‘Nobody’s going to be alive.’ Fires burned and molten steel flowed in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet.” – “K-9/11: Tracking the Rescuers’ Trauma,

Summer 2002, on Sarah Atlas of New Jersey’s Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue – www.sas.upenn.edu...

What you had were large columns of steel that were just stuck into massive amounts of molten steel and other metals, that had just fused together from the heat and bonded together from the strength of the collapse....It looked like a massive, molten mess that had been fused together, like a car that had been cubed and crushed. With all that heavy, heavy stuff, there were wires, rebar, concrete. Most of it was just steel. A lot of what we were walking on was just molten steel.

-- Fire Department Chief Mike Donoho of Texas Task Force 1 Urban Search and Rescue, web.archive.org...://www.theeagle.com/septanniv/091102firefighter.htm

The workers go through three pairs of rubber boots a day because they melt in the three-week-old fire of molten metal and jet fuel. The health hazards are everywhere: the fire, molten metal, the lack of breathable air and 3000+ decomposing bodies.

- www.illusiongenius.com...

Each story has its differences. Some told of 10-hour car drives and arriving in the black of night, the same calendar day as the towers were hit. Others remembered taking military transport – a C- 141 in Deeds’ case – a few days later. Others remember molten metal still dripping under the Pile more than a week after the attack.

– findarticles.com...

Some beams pulled from the wreckage are still red hot more than 7 weeks after the attack, and it is suspected that temperatures beneath the debris pile are well in excess of 1,000°F.

– web.archive.org...://www.liro.com/lironews.pdf

The ‘hot spots,’ where intensely burning debris generated temperatures in excess of 1300 degrees Fahrenheit, posed a significant danger to relief workers. NASA had an instrument that could provide information that would be useful to emergency responders. NASA’s Airborne Visible infrared Imaging Spectrometer (0x1a.com...]AVIRIS) science instrument was capable of providing data that could be used to filter smoke and locate extreme hot spots.

- amelia.db.erau.edu...

The temperature at the core of ‘the pile,’ is near 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to fire officials.

web.archive.org...://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_recovery010918.html

Firefighters and other responders contended with intense heat associated with the super-heated steel for weeks; some were coming back from shifts with the bottoms of their boots melted.

-- www.gwu.edu...

Firemen and hazardous materials experts stated that, six weeks after 9/11, ‘There are pieces of steel being pulled out [from as far as six stories underground] that are still cherry red’ and ‘the blaze is so ‘far beyond a normal fire’ that it is nearly impossible to draw conclusions about it based on other fires.

- www.nydailynews.com... – also www.libertypost.org...

Ground Zero at the World Trade Center was a search site like few others after a major disaster event. Multiple sources of hazards were everywhere. There were shards of steel piled on steel, a two-million-ton pile of debris, red hot steel beams still being pulled from the earth, crevasses, holes, unstable ground, still burning fires, possible asbestos exposure, and caustic fumes that may have contained mixtures of benzene, methane gas and other chemicals.

michigan.gov... (maloney.house.gov)

The first indication of ‘Ground Zero’ is the smoke. It’s still smoking. Many of the beams are still red hot as they are uncovered, and start new fires as the oxygen reaches them.

– Congressman Pete Hoekstra hoekstra.house.gov

A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temperatures, Dr. Barnett said.

- James Glanz, “Engineers Suspect Diesel Fuel in Collapse of 7 World Trade Center,” NY Times, Nov. 29, 2001, at www.nytimes.com...

Are all of those people lying?

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Now do you trust the images of molten steel and the dozens of witness testimonies, or this guy?:

Originally posted by TupacShakur
Please name another instance where a skyscraper has collapsed from fire damage alone. In the past 50 years there have been over 100 fires within skyscrapers, but on 9/11, for the first time in history, three of them collapse from the very damage that has never collapsed a skyscraper?

So in other words you know your argument is on the short end of the stick so you have to pretend the WTC wasn't hit by a 757 and pretend it didn't have tens of thousands of gallons of aviation fuel dumped into it, all so you can ask "when did a skyscraper collapse from fire alone".

You forget that there are alternative explanations that refutes the NIST/FEMA reports and still don't require any goofball conspiracy crutch to remain alive. Dr. James Quintiere and others believe the towers never had adequate fireproofing to begin with, while the Perdue study suggests the plane impact caused much more grave damage to the structure than what NIST is taking into account. I've even heard from architects on how the design was flawed and was a deathtrap waiting to happen from day one. All of these make your comparisons to other buildings disingenuous.

...or are you now going to likewise pretend there are no "non-OS',alternative explanations so you can continue to falsely claim there's "an official story" on how the towers collaped?

reply to post by esdad71


I think you just got smacked down by Tupac. Like Bitch slapped. Did you really think there were no witnesses to the molten steel and high temps OR did you know there was and thought Tupac wouldnt deliver, so by you saying "show me a witness" you thought you could end that debate and look like you were right? Well, you were WRONG.

Now I suggest you go think about how foolish you look to people who can see through the fake story. When you are ready, we will welcome you and help you through the tough road that lies ahead. The world isn't what you think it is.

Tupac, great job. I wish I had your skillz.

reply to post by Wizayne

Tupac, great job. I wish I had your skillz.

I give full credit to this website: 911conspiracy.wordpress.com...

It's not as hard as it looks, I just type in what I'm looking for in "Bing" and the evidence is almost always there. The truth is out there, you just have to look for it. Nobody is going to knock on your door with a packet that disproves the official story, you have to do it yourself.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by TupacShakur
Please name another instance where a skyscraper has collapsed from fire damage alone. In the past 50 years there have been over 100 fires within skyscrapers, but on 9/11, for the first time in history, three of them collapse from the very damage that has never collapsed a skyscraper?

So in other words you know your argument is on the short end of the stick so you have to pretend the WTC wasn't hit by a 757 and pretend it didn't have tens of thousands of gallons of aviation fuel dumped into it, all so you can ask "when did a skyscraper collapse from fire alone".

You forget that there are alternative explanations that refutes the NIST/FEMA reports and still don't require any goofball conspiracy crutch to remain alive. Dr. James Quintiere and others believe the towers never had adequate fireproofing to begin with, while the Perdue study suggests the plane impact caused much more grave damage to the structure than what NIST is taking into account. I've even heard from architects on how the design was flawed and was a deathtrap waiting to happen from day one. All of these make your comparisons to other buildings disingenuous.

...or are you now going to likewise pretend there are no "non-OS',alternative explanations so you can continue to falsely claim there's "an official story" on how the towers collaped?

How about instead you just describe for us exactly how the building, i'm sorry, BuildingS came crashing down. Feel free to show us YOUR diagram indicating exactly what happened on each floor as they collapsed. NIST had years to put together an explanation, and they couldn't. Can you? I would bet not.

However, in a contest of communication skills with a twist of manipulation for the purpose of knocking down the validity of someone's argument instead of addressing the real issue, I'd say you do just fine. I'm not saying anything else to you until your diagram appears and puts this 9/11 thing to rest. Good day sir.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Have you found the evidence for molten steel that you claimed to have?

Perhaps if you just pretend it exists it'll magically appear.

Or you could try to change the subject...

At the risk of appearing like I'm breaking ranks, I don't see how there's such resistance toward the claim there was molten metal underground. Every witness who was there at ground zero reported massive underground fires burning for months. Joel Meyerowitz was a photographer on the WTC site documenting the ground zero cleanup and even he said that every so often a piece of steel would be pulled out of the ground and superheated ash would erupt out of the ground like a geyser. Seeing that the temperatures underground were essentially a gigantic blast furnace, how could the metals underground not become molten under such conditions?

More to the point, why the heck is this such a big deal to the conspiracy people anyway? This is completely irrelevent to their controlled demolitions fantasies, as any fires hot enough to melt steel would certainly have vaporized any explosives or thermite in a microsecond, and only an idiot would claim these fires were caused by thermite/explosives because aerial photographs showed the underground fires burned across a massive area underground, so there'd have to be enough thermite there to fill the Death Star.

The laws of physics have to apply to their conspiracy theories every bit as much as they do to everything else.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

I've even heard from architects on how the design was flawed and was a deathtrap waiting to happen from day one.

Yeah and I've heard from the very structural engineer of the tower that you're describing that it was designed to take such an impact with ease and remained structurally intact.
-- John Skilling, the WTC's head structural engineer, told the Seattle Times after the 1993 bombing that if a plane struck the building and dumped it's fuel on the inside

There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed. But the building structure would still be there.

These 1400+ engineers and architects agree that the inside story is a load, but I'm sure your anonymous "architect" source knows more about that building than all of them.

So in other words you know your argument is on the short end of the stick so you have to pretend the WTC wasn't hit by a 757 and pretend it didn't have tens of thousands of gallons of aviation fuel dumped into it, all so you can ask "when did a skyscraper collapse from fire alone"

If tens of thousands of gallons of jet fuel was dumped into it, what was that explosion then? I think a good portion of the fuel was lost on impact, that's what the explosion was. Even if every single ounce of jet fuel landed inside of the tower, that would not be enough to melt steel and collapse the towers at near free-fall speed through the path of greatest resitance with no resistance.


And what about WTC7? No airplane hit that building and dumped "thousands of gallons of aviation fuel", that was just your typical office fire that caused it to collapse in on itself.

Good job NIST, case closed.


Here are some examples of buildings collapsing without the use of explosives:
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I would have posted images of buildings collapsing from internal fires, but as we both know that never happened until 9/11 when 3 skyscrapers collapsed.

WTC7 "without the use of explosives":
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Wake up dude

Originally posted by Wizayne
How about instead you just describe for us exactly how the building, i'm sorry, BuildingS came crashing down. Feel free to show us YOUR diagram indicating exactly what happened on each floor as they collapsed. NIST had years to put together an explanation, and they couldn't. Can you? I would bet not.

You lose your bet. I subscribe to the Perdue University study that shows the damage from the plane impact was much more fatal than what the NIST report takes into account. I say this because the planes crashed their way all the way to the central core and destroyed the stairwells, so there had to have been more extensive damage to the structural integrity of the interior than anyone realizes. Plus, the plane was carrying massive amounts of liquids in the form of fuel, so that would have hit the structure like a sledgehammer. After that, it was only a matter of time for the upper section to fail and collapse onto the lower sections.

Here's an animation Perdue put together. there's no guesswork or anything left to the imagination as to what damage the impact inflicted on the structure:

Perdue University Animation

As long as you conspiracy people continue to pretend that the initial collapse didn't begin at the precise location where the plane struck the building (and therefore one event led to the other in some way your conspiracy stories aren't even going to get out of the gate.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

Seeing that the temperatures underground were essentially a gigantic blast furnace, how could the metals underground not become molten under such conditions?

You must have missed this:
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More to the point, why the heck is this such a big deal to the conspiracy people anyway? This is completely irrelevent to their controlled demolitions fantasies, as any fires hot enough to melt steel would certainly have vaporized any explosives or thermite in a microsecond, and only an idiot would claim these fires were caused by thermite/explosives because aerial photographs showed the underground fires burned across a massive area underground, so there'd have to be enough thermite there to fill the Death Star.

It's a big deal because jet fuel is not hot enough to melt steel and turn it molten, let alone ordinary office fires, so the presence of molten steel dripping prior to the collapse and underneath the towers proves that the official story is false.

Do you know what can melt steel? Thermite.

I collected iron-rich particles in the dust by pulling a magnet across the outside of a plastic bag containing the dust, pulling upwards to the top the magnetic material and pulling this aside for further analysis. These magnetic particles were, as one might expect, rich in iron. There was a surprising amount of this iron-rich material. Although others have reported the presence of iron-rich particles in the dust, I was surprised to find the abundance of spherical particles in this iron-rich component some of which were considerably larger than previously reported. It was exciting to me to find for the first time iron-rich spheres up to about 1.5 mm in diameter in a 32.1-gram sample of dust.

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The iron-rich component of the WTC dust sample was analyzed in some detail by scanning electron microscopy (SEM) and x-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (X-EDS). Using the scanning electron microscope, we found that much of the iron-rich dust was in fact composed of roughly spherical particles ­ microspheres [sic]. The presence of metallic microspheres implies that these metals were once molten, so that surface tension pulled the droplets into a roughly spherical shape. Then the molten droplets solidified in air, preserving the information that they were once molten in the spherical shape as well as chemical information.

Iron melts at 1538ºC, so the presence of these numerous iron-rich spheres implies a very high temperature. Too hot in fact for the fires in the WTC buildings since jet fuel (kerosene), paper and wood furniture ­ and other office materials ­ cannot reach the temperatures needed to melt iron or steel.

Surely if you took the time to read the 10,000 page 9/11 Comission Report, you can read a meager 82 page report, right? Revisiting 9/11/2001 -- Applying the Scientific Method

Check this one out while you're at it, but we both know you won't: Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

The fellas that put it together:
Niels H. Harrit*,1, Jeffrey Farrer2, Steven E. Jones*,3, Kevin R. Ryan4, Frank M. Legge5,
Daniel Farnsworth2, Gregg Roberts6, James R. Gourley7 and Bradley R. Larsen3

1Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
2Department of Physics and Astronomy, Brigham Young University, Provo, UT 84602, USA
3S&J Scientific Co., Provo, UT, 84606, USA
49/11 Working Group of Bloomington, Bloomington, IN 47401, USA
5Logical Systems Consulting, Perth, Western Australia
6Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Berkeley, CA 94704, USA
7International Center for 9/11 Studies, Dallas, TX 75231, USA

The laws of physics have to apply to their conspiracy theories every bit as much as they do to everything else.

You're right, but when applied to our "conspiracy theories", the official story is proven to be impossible for many reasons.

You're supposed to deny ignorance, not evidence.

Originally posted by Wizayne
reply to post by esdad71

 

I think you just got smacked down by Tupac. Like Bitch slapped. Did you really think there were no witnesses to the molten steel and high temps OR did you know there was and thought Tupac wouldnt deliver, so by you saying "show me a witness" you thought you could end that debate and look like you were right? Well, you were WRONG.

Now I suggest you go think about how foolish you look to people who can see through the fake story. When you are ready, we will welcome you and help you through the tough road that lies ahead. The world isn't what you think it is.

Tupac, great job. I wish I had your skillz.

edit on 29-6-2011 by Wizayne because: I never learned to spell.

Where does it say someone saw a pool of molten steel in a basement? It doesn't. they are eyewitness accounts of 'removing' material from the WTC site where molten steel dripped or when exposed suddenly exposed there was a reaction where it may glow when pulled from the rubble. High temperatures or heated steel is not the same as molten. The perception of the words used by truthers are like what a magician does to misdirect you.

Now, six weeks after the attacks there were pieces found that were molten. The fires below the gz site were like huge smelters. All of the materials, chemicals heated material continue to burn for months. This does not mean there was thermite used. If it did, you would have all the proof you need but there is none. Nothing. No physical evidence of a demolition.

bitch slap these nutz