Respect, Corruption, Law Enforcement and You

reply to post by Evil_Santa

was to setup the premise for the question

You wish to debate? Do not "Set Up" anything. I've been here quite a long time and even have some reputation in the debate forum; I will not be baited or led thank you.

My question is: Do you agree or disagree, that among your peers, there's an acceptance of police brutality towards citizens?

Disagree; among my peers.

I don't believe that you would have felt that having one of your questions side-stepped would be an acceptable

This is ATS

Just because someone does not answer the "way you want", does not mean they did not answer. I answered you. I am not familiar with the area, the department or the incident "you" say happened.

Semper

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


It sounds like a bad experiance, but I have never encountered anything like that. Well with the exception when I had half the county mounties pull into my friends driveway because the car I was driving matched the description of a Jewerly heist.

Luckily, I knew the guy in charge, let him search and we were apoligized to. But if memory serves correctly, the bad guys did get away with it. Probably because they were all on me.

Oh well, such is life. It happens.

I know for me I often see a bad attitude from "some" cops. I'm former LE myself and we we're held to very tight standards.

I think when I see cops on TV in Dallas slam a handcuffed young girls face against the wall, or when I see repeated drunk cops in car accidents etc it makes a real bad impression,

The problem is that this is a small percentage of cops. I own a small business and know many other small business owners, recently, a tobacco hut owner had someone show up to his drive through window on a bike and pull a gun to rb him. He emptied him 9mm clip. He missed. The first words out of the cops mouth when he hear this was that my friend could be arrested for discharging a fire arm in side city limits. Which was not true, but what did that make a law abiding business owner think of cops? I love how LE officers always stand behind "It's only a few bad apples" line. But we both know, you;ve seen drunk cops drive and said nothing. You've seen cops overly rough and said nothing. You;ve seen personally civil rights violated and said nothing.

The silent blue wall........that;s why sir. I've seen it all my self. And done the same thing.

I find it hard to believe that there is acceptance among any group for, brutality, abuse or perverse behavior. I know for a fact in the two states I have worked in this was never the case. And we did get bad eggs periodically, even with the heavy background screening process. I also know when things happened with one of ours a hush fell over the room and we all knew it was a separation. Done deal. I have sent a couple along the path myself who were nice people but just couldn't measure up to the standards everyone else worked at.

Filming? I don't think anyone working in LE should care. Honestly, I have just a few under 1700 cameras under my control. Why would anyone care about another one? More so in the hands of an amateur? In the case of LE in the field they should be aware of whats going on around them, do their job correctly and in the best manner they can, and ignore it. Go on the internet and there are a couple hundred thousand cameras you can see online and live. Its nothing. I don't know why some LE would get upset and some not care. I suppose the ones who get upset just don't really understand they are in front of about 150-200 cameras a day. That's my best guess.

I personally feel like every officer and security person should have a uniform mounted camera running for their own safety, because about 30% of the public is rotten to the core.

And to be just plain honest the police techniques that agitate the public and cause confrontation such as mag-lighting the eyes,pulling the club in under the armpit, and offensive stances would not be required if they could walk up shake hands and say hi im bob. Im going to be taking your statement on camera today and point to the lens.

I firmly believe when everyone is on camera then civility and respect for all will return.

Picked what I do so I dont have to deal with the public. Because quite honestly the officers I know show more patience, restraint, and put up with more stupid BS than I ever would put up with. You can take that to the bank.

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by Evil_Santa

 

was to setup the premise for the question

You wish to debate? Do not "Set Up" anything. I've been here quite a long time and even have some reputation in the debate forum; I will not be baited or led thank you.

My question is: Do you agree or disagree, that among your peers, there's an acceptance of police brutality towards citizens?

Disagree; among my peers.

I don't believe that you would have felt that having one of your questions side-stepped would be an acceptable

This is ATS

Just because someone does not answer the "way you want", does not mean they did not answer. I answered you. I am not familiar with the area, the department or the incident "you" say happened.

Semper

I am sure you recognize that answering a single question about "tee shirts" does not address the larger issue of you taking and having taken a paycheck from those you so boldly disrespect and who ultimately are your superiors.I am sure also as a LEO you will continue to avoid this issue as it cuts to the quick, does it not?
All I can say in these tight times you are making my budget cutting issues lean more and more to cutting police and not schools. Now multiply me times a million others,conservatively, and think why a fifty year old family man with no record but a couple tickets is disgusted by where his money is going as far as LE is concerned?
I know full well you started this thread for this type of response and are coolly choosing non-issues to comment on just to keep poking the nest and your avatar in the thread. It is all as telling as your blame shifting, which I broke my children of by 4yrs of age. I don't expect it to occur despite Semper's warning of debate "expertise" as this thread is just another way to punk those he so proudly dis-serves on their dime. I am sure he is quite well to do, comfortable on the pension or upper level salary we provide and has plenty of time to heap more abuse on folks, hell he probably misses those arse kickings he was so big on and this is all he could come up with, a bait thread. If this were real life I would call it pathetic but since it is the interwebs I just wonder how an obvious trolling post by a "super-mod" calling virtually everyone not a cop responsible for cops kicking your arse is like butta. and any news of legislation regarding the drug war or more specifically a particular target of same is totally off limits. But THEN it all fits together and the realization is that the super-mod really reps the view of the site when posting like this and the other issue is exactly as expected given the previous statements.
Again, fascinating realization and one which makes me LMAO given the public premise of this site.
seed

PS Just a notation not disrespect per se. However may be a more satisfying experience to stay on environmental issues here

reply to post by semperfortis


EVERY SINGLE COP "behaves badly" if they enforce laws or policies that contradict the constitution they swore an oath to uphold. I wonder what would happen to a cop if he refused to take part in spying on citizens without a search warrant, or maybe if he didn't go along with his fellow officers in assaulting peaceful protesters. I'm sure he'd lose his job. Especially if he actually had the courage to stand up and tell the truth by saying that his fellow officers were traitors and oath breakers. This makes me think that there aren't any cops who don't "behave badly", or at least not for long.

reply to post by semperfortis


Not all cops are bad, but the commonly held perception is that the majority are.

Any of us citizens who have had or witnessed a couple of personal interactions know better. I think you underestimate the number of bad encounters dramatically.

What about kneeing someone in the kidneys violently when they are already subdued?

What about drugs disappearing from someone's car after it being impounded?

What about the fellow I know of who was caught in a 50,000 drug deal, with a firearm and fled... only to have the charges dropped because his uncle was a state trooper?

What about people criticizing the police in public and being told to shut up or be subject to arrest? No freedom of speech?

What about the police officer who "lost" evidence that would have convicted a (wealthy) child molester in my area, allowing him to get away?

These are a few examples that I have seen personally.

Some people would go so far as to say that it takes a certain type of person to be comfortable in a job that requires the use of violence, coercion, intimidation and threat. To actually be okay with enforcing unconstitutional laws put into place by politicians with "corporate" agendas.

If you have seen an uptick in the negative attitude towards police, consider this: you are the arm of force that represents and, in truth, holds in place the corrupt government system above you.

If there is ever mass civil unrest, it would be wise for any police officer to go home and protect their family and to leave Wal-Mart, millionaires and political figures to their fates.

Better yet, be a part of the solution. If you want to be a hero and fight crime, why not uphold your oath and go arrest a congressman or banking CEO. Then you will deserve my respect and admiration.

reply to post by Shadowalker


Well put, even if I disagree with some.

MORE cameras all over the place? Too Big-Brother for my taste. Why not just add microchips, rfid and random urine tests and searches of all citizens? How far is too far?

Cameras on police officers? Good idea so long as they STAY ON AT ALL TIMES, the data is remotely stored and easily available to the public/accused as well as to LE. In other words, can be used to defend as well as to convict and does not "disappear" when it suits local politics or police officers.

30% of people are bad. At least that many.

reply to post by mustard seed


The one thing that really burns me is when members keep throwing our moderator status into our collective faces. When I post a thread, I do so to let my opinions be known as a MEMBER.

My take on current LE practices has been posted in this thread and it was pretty much brushed off with a minor comment. How come you didn't throw 'Supermoderator' in my face? Was it because I disagreed with Semp?

reply to post by bricmpt


no one wants to think badly of a group they're apart of. there was a time in america when the majority of police were respectable, but that time has passed.

i believe semperfortis said it himself in the "ask a cop" thread awhile ago something to the effect of "when you're continually placed in a life threatening situation with your partner, you develop a bond, and won't rat on corruption, and those who do rat are shunned"

forgive me if i'm remembering someone else, but i believe thats accurate.

Originally posted by semperfortis
You wish to debate? Do not "Set Up" anything. I've been here quite a long time and even have some reputation in the debate forum; I will not be baited or led thank you.

Its interesting that you should bring up your reputation on the forums, I will start by saying I had no idea that you were a LEO.
You closed down a thread that I had started on the grounds that it was a duplicate of another one, you then said that you allowed other mods to review it and they agreed and I gave you the benefit of the doubt. The thread you referenced was dealing with a specific incident involving video taping LEO's. I noticed both the cop hater and cop love came out in droves and no real attempt was being made to address the issue so I started a thread about the issue. A very pleasant discussion ensued between myself and a LA training officer. At no point was there any form of animosity shown between either of us. I asked a number of questions in the OP and he calmly and rationally answered them which led to more questions and answers. The mutual respect was very apparent between both of us, very little hate/love from anyone else.
I accepted your reason for shutting down the thread. When I saw this thread and then saw who started it I realised why you shut my thread down, You are a LEO and you did not like the direction of the thread, you then flexed your "muscles" by shutting it down and starting one in which you could dictate the tone, You ask why I have little respect for people like you, look in the mirror, and now I'm going to ask you to be fair, just, even handed and intellectually honest and shut this thread down as it is exactly in the same vain as my thread.

Originally posted by masqua
reply to post by mustard seed

 

The one thing that really burns me is when members keep throwing our moderator status into our collective faces. When I post a thread, I do so to let my opinions be known as a MEMBER.

My take on current LE practices has been posted in this thread and it was pretty much brushed off with a minor comment. How come you didn't throw 'Supermoderator' in my face? Was it because I disagreed with Semp?

edit on 24/6/11 by masqua because: spllng

I apologize if it was not crystal clear I was referring to the OP.Of course reading my posts would have cleared that up also. However I do have to say if your going to wear the title you gotta wear the baggage. I have been a mod on many forums and with the title comes a responsibility to NOT stir crap on the board. Semper wearing his bold super-mod avatar posted this "bait thread". as a representative of this board he is responsible not only for the content of his posts but the reaction he generates. That he ,as a "super-mod" of ATS has posted a virtual finger in the air at all who are not LE, his post reflects upon the board who gave him super-mod status. Were you masqua , to begin a insulting and baiting thread while you wear the title of super-mod it would also reflect on the board as a whole and those who placed the title upon you.
One other thing. I think that you would actually participate in a discussion even if you did just try and bait a response, which I do not think you would do.
Semper has dodged every serious question and has not engaged in even a conversation let alone a debate.
My comments are pointed at the fact a public servant has said clearly how much he lacks any respect for those he serves in a post and then ignores any serious questions. Utter lack of respect. he also posted as a super-moderator of ATS and has not even tangentially given lip service to this discussion.
I find this whole thing quite childish to see a grown man attempt to shift responsibility for the acts in question to the victims of same. This is the kind of guy who looks at a raped woman and thinks in the back of their mind they had it coming, excuses tazing granny with it is her fault for maybe suing if he "touched" her.
I see a weak,scared bully who has made their way feeding at the public trough while also feeding off the public in each post he makes and more pointedly each post he avoids.
seed

Wait, how many mods are or have been cops here? Or let me restate that, how many mods work for the government on this site?

Get to know who thinks your the problem
media.abovetopsecret.com...
As I said scared and hiding behind a pile of mental grandeur

reply to post by mustard seed


If you look at the title of this thread from a Sub Conscious level, that is coupled with Social programming what do you see?

Respect Corrupt Law Enforcement You.

I have a few comments and maybe videos... in no particular order.

I feel that this thread is a form of BAITING.

I learned what SOVEREIGNTY means...

Ohhh did you watch that video where that one cop tells all you other cops that people who even say the word "SOVEREIGN" are to be handled with care and great caution? yeah? Well, that is how you should have treated all of us all of the time!

I learned that the CONstitution was the original subversion of our rights...

I learned that, even if LEO's do not underSTAND exactly what they are doing, they have been trained to try to trick/bind people into "legal contracts".

If this were a facist nation....LEO's would make good nazi's...... oops! it is and yep... they do!

I have a real issue with MARINES/MILITARY getting a free pass into law enforcement, the postal service, any particular profession for that matter. A form of National Nepotism is what it is.

A gang of "do as you are tolds"...

I know where the model for modern education/indoctrination began and I know how it extends to the military and thus...... I do not want a bunch of "soldiers" who are not taught "LAW", taught very little but how to kill or how to move people into position so that they can kill other people (logistics) and otherwise do as they are told, not to think, out there thinking or feebly attempting to do so as they interact with civilians.

Bottom line... bottom bottom line... the family of your average LEO is usually not the smartest nor usually not the most comely and thus not the wealthiest so the military is viewed as a viable economic option so they go there and when they get out ...the doors to the post office or the police department and other agencies namely ALPHABET AGENCIES swing wide open for them.

Lord, I just frightened myself... Imagine a world where these people have no good jobs, I wonder what kind of "dysfunctional" things that they would be willing to do to make ends meet...scary thought huh?

I am ready for robots who will be programmed with the law, make each and every one of you an obsolete dinosaur

The ranks of real criminals will grow then huh?

When I watch LEO's talk about drugs and how they are "saving america" by keeping these drugs off the streets I am quickly reminded of LEAP...

L.E.A.P?

That is.... LAW ENFORCEMENT AGAINST PROHIBITION



I guess this means that you are not all Liars and/or complete idiots...simply the majority...

I have an incredible memory... my first memory is of my infant self being washed in a sink!
I guess this isnt that incredible as I have a friend who swears that his first memory is of staring down at the doctors shoes!!!
Trauma induces memory... dont test this theory as I already have, try to trust me like you ask us to trust you

One of my earliest memories was having my door kicked in and a .38 snub nosed revolver aimed at my head... I was 5 years old, the cop was sweating profusely... my spiderman jammies must have put him at ease and he lowered the gun...

My step parent was a pot dealer... a POT dealer... pot THC thc receptor site found in human brain = THC not a drug by any definition of any idiotic draconian law on your ill conceived "books"...

Weird as I have 2 incidences of personal gun play prior to the age of 6....

Anyways, yer a buncha non thinking pseudo intellectuals with a very few exceptions... sorry

The movie FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS demonstrates this sentiment well and I am not referring to the "lonely highway patrolman" scene but the "police convention" scenes

here is my faborite scene from that part



I saw that you were having fun with all the replies that do not agree with your position, how you degrade them into little stereotypical nanobytes so I thought I would have fun with this thread as well and maybe do alittle degrading while I was at it.... with full knowledge that I would not be taken seriously and if I was taken seriously it would only so my name could be added to some list

Christopher meloni is hilarious isnt he?

I believe we should have some law/rules enforcement yet that the current system is polluted with nonsensical BS to generate income or otherwise subvert the rights of the sovereign...

I believe we should have JUST laws that are observant of our individual sovereignty!
We should have, NO, We deserve... Lawful public servants who understand the basis of law as much as the methods of enforcement.

All we get are callous thugs, revenue generators and a stupid t shirt!!!

I live in Appalachia...in a very economically disadvantaged region where presciption drugs namely Oxycontin and we cannot forget "Meth", have seemingly consumed entire generations.... I know of grandfathers/grandmothers, mothers/fathers with daughters/sons who are having babies... who are all addicted...

Only now are the local LEO's with the help of 7-8 state and federal agencies capable of "closing down" some of these "pain clinics".

really??? something like 25-40 "public servants" to close down 1 pain clinic and who knows how many days, weeks, months, years.....of "stake out" and other prerequisite sit on their butts and do nothing "work" preceeded this "major bust"...

That's REAL Welfare right there....I don't care who you are!

It has been going on for 7 years or more and only now, only very recently where they patting themselves on the back in the local news rag for busting a few local clinics who were right back open the next day with new doctors from out of state, all completely LAWFUL by the way....

I guess they were content by simply busting down the doors of local residents, splitting up already dysfunctional families by putting mothers and fathers into private run prisons etc etc, putting tax liens on the homes of peoples who have been suffering a "great depression" since 1781... yeah...etc etc...

The worst part is that I can CLEARLY see the similarities of the classic MOON SHINER and todays DRUG RUNNER.

From MoonShiners we got Nascar and some pretty tasty whiskies
Not much for nascar yet I like me some good whiskey upon occassion...
Wonder what will come of all this nonsense....?

I UNDERSTAND that we are a product of our environment.
I UNDERSTAND that addiction is not a disease but a dysfunction.
I UNDERSTAND that you are probably incapable of understanding much of any of this and for that I am honestly saddened...

Odd to have this empathy for you at this point in my rantings...

It is as if the battle was lopsided in my favor, there you are with your guts all spilled out on the forum floor, my hair is perfect, a gleem comes from my right canine tooth..........I am all victorious and "stuff" yet all I feel inside is the loss of my adversary...

an adversary that neither chose me nor I him but one chosen by a system...
A system perpetuated by Elitist who maintain control via divide & conquer tactics because if we the people were ever truly united that they wouldnt have a chance.

Bravo! Mission Accomplished! Divided and Fallen...

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by semperfortis
You wish to debate? Do not "Set Up" anything. I've been here quite a long time and even have some reputation in the debate forum; I will not be baited or led thank you.

Its interesting that you should bring up your reputation on the forums, I will start by saying I had no idea that you were a LEO.
You closed down a thread that I had started on the grounds that it was a duplicate of another one, you then said that you allowed other mods to review it and they agreed and I gave you the benefit of the doubt. The thread you referenced was dealing with a specific incident involving video taping LEO's. I noticed both the cop hater and cop love came out in droves and no real attempt was being made to address the issue so I started a thread about the issue. A very pleasant discussion ensued between myself and a LA training officer. At no point was there any form of animosity shown between either of us. I asked a number of questions in the OP and he calmly and rationally answered them which led to more questions and answers. The mutual respect was very apparent between both of us, very little hate/love from anyone else.
I accepted your reason for shutting down the thread. When I saw this thread and then saw who started it I realised why you shut my thread down, You are a LEO and you did not like the direction of the thread, you then flexed your "muscles" by shutting it down and starting one in which you could dictate the tone, You ask why I have little respect for people like you, look in the mirror, and now I'm going to ask you to be fair, just, even handed and intellectually honest and shut this thread down as it is exactly in the same vain as my thread.

edit on 24-6-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)

I would agree with you yet this thread is informative regardless of the obvious BAITING.

Sometimes it is fun to grab a hook and pull a fisherman under

Freedom of speech is what it is always about and I support the rights of these "swine" to speak!

They did you wrong... do not go on then loving our hangman... my friend.

reply to post by OverMan


If we are not on as many lists of theirs as we possibly can be, we arent doing enough.

Originally posted by OverMan
I would agree with you yet this thread is informative regardless of the obvious BAITING.
Sometimes it is fun to grab a hook and pull a fisherman under

Freedom of speech is what it is always about and I support the rights of these "swine" to speak!

They did you wrong... do not go on then loving our hangman... my friend.

Here are some quotes from the thread that I believe show exactly what the problem is when it comes to "good" cops and the very reason he shut the thread down. These are from the Peace Officer.

in my personal experience it is because it brings out the worst in people. ever notice how when someone breaks out a camera at a party people go stupid acting like retards to get on camera? same principal. except it turns violent lots of times.

just like any work force you have good and bad here. the problem is that there is just such a higher level of bad that you can go with this job. we are given an INCREDIBLE amount of power and responsibilities. you can do great things or you can do horrendous things. it all depends on the type of person that you are. myself personally depending ont he siutuation, if it is a bad enough scene and i catch you videoing the scene dont think i wont sieze your camera and copy the video if i think i will need that as part of my evidence in the prosecution. and depending on what you have on it you may or may not get your video back. some things are not released back due to laws and common sense.

they stay on the force because many higher ups do not take the recommendation from their training officers and keep them until something bad happens. you know how accountants work. all they can see is the cost of training another one and figure they wont do anything that bad. then they do. believe me it frustrate me to no ends sometimes

a lot of people think they know the law but really dont. i have been doing this for 12 years and i dont know more than half. and most of that is just the common stuff that i use everyday.

i understand your issue with the life and death thing. however administrators are the same no matter where you work. same with bean counters. i think they should be personally held responsible when something bad happens. i know i keep copies of everything i recommend to them. if one of the idiots that gets through the system does make that fatal mistake i would hate to think what would happen if those documents ever got "misplaced" where they coul dbe found.

All of these statements tells me he is infact an honest cop and does his best to do the right thing by every one concerned