Believers: A Friendly Challenge/Discussion

Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by game over man
Now consider if we detect a completely identical Earth-Like planet, possibly in a Solar System with more planets and moons, maybe 2 or 3 Suns, and larger Suns at that. Imagine what kind of alien culture would exist there?

You can make that theory simpler (Occams Razor) by removing the need to find your Earth like planet. It isn't difficult. You were there when you typed those words, game over man.

Now imagine a planet completely identical to the one we live on now. With a Star just like ours. In fact, imagine it was our Sun. That would make it identical to ours. Imagine that planet Earth like planet you were searching for was Earth, only it was 90 million years ago. Imagine what kind of "alien" culture would EVOLVE there....

Imagine a bipedal dinosaur, with a large brain, opposable thumb and good linguistic abilities lived in conditions very like the ones our ancestors did. Conditions where our ancestors needed to evolve intelligence, tool making and culture like ours in order to survive. How do you think they would have evolved?

game over man, the problem is you are thinking inside a box. The Earth like planet that could harbour intelligent life has existed for BILLIONS OF YEARS already. Right here. Any argument you can produce to support the intelligent space faring aliens from Earth like planets also supports the simpler theory that they already evolved on Earth at least once - if not several times - in the BILLIONS OF YEARS this planet has supported life.

It allegedly only took 1 million or so to produce Homo sapiens sapiens. If you think intelligent life that is capable of space faring could develop on an Earth like planet elsewhere then you are in denial if you think it couldn't happen here. It stands to reason.

Are Aliens Dinosaurs. Read it with open eyes and open mind.

Admittedly, it may not have been dinosaurs. We know so much less than is popularly thought about Earth's long past. It may have been something else that developed in a similar way - who knows? I don't doubt that real aliens may have visited us. Ones that, perhaps. can't cope with oxygen and "burn up" if they are exposed to our atmosphere. However, there is too much evidence that our more terrestrial cousins muddying the waters.

Don't be blinded by the closed minded nonsense you often hear on here. Just because somebody is a better communicator or sound better spoken than me or you doesn't mean they know any better. Also bear in mind that some people are on ATS to impart something they know - ANONYMOUSLY. You don't have to listen, but it helps.

Pimander, your humanoid dinosaur theory is a good read but it is pure sci fi. I read your thread when you first posted it and I was very intrigued. I decided to research it outside of ATS, and there is no evidence. Reptiles have tiny brains anyways.

We don't know who the occupants of UFO's are. I fully support the idea of looking at Earth first. So far what I've read about the Humanoid Dinosaur theory is that WHAT IF dinosaurs survived longer than they did. And that is about as far as that theory goes.

I would very much enjoy reading the Roswell Cover Up version of a dinosaur archeological dig. But I don't think there are any.

reply to post by Pimander
The idea doesn't appeal to me for more reasons than are expressable in a single post. None of us have the answers and we clutch at whatever makes the most sense to ourselves. As such, we'll follow our own dreams on our own terms.

Incidentally, look at some of Michael Swords' conjectures. He's one of the greats imho.

Originally posted by game over man
So far what I've read about the Humanoid Dinosaur theory is that WHAT IF dinosaurs survived longer than they did. And that is about as far as that theory goes.

No, that is as far as Dale Russell's theory went.

My theory just borrowed Russell's candidate species for a Dinosaur that may have evolved into a humanoid. The rest of my theory is different, but you will need to read it to find out.

Originally posted by game over man
Reptiles have tiny brains anyways.

Yes but dinosaurs (which are not reptiles in case you don't know) did not all have tiny brains. Their brains were getting larger in some of the lines. However, I really can't give you all the material I have as my potential publishers may walk away.

reply to post by Kandinsky

As I say, I don't hang my coat on Dinosaurs as a Holy Grail. There is lots going on and many possibilities.

I'm intrigued. Do you have a starter link for Michael Sword?

reply to post by Pimander
Sure thing.

Ufology: What have we learned?

Clyde Tombaugh, Mars, and UFOs

The best collection of links to scientific ufology is provided by Dimitris Hatzopoulos at the underrated Hyper.net UFO site. If you browse the site, it's full of the type of Ufology I like; honest, serious and not a mention of the crooks and cranks.

The guys at JSE have a great deal of papers worth reading.

BTW, if you like Hyper please pass it on to others who'd appreciate it too.

Just a quick point about *drug fueled hallucinations* ..... The point being a simple one, many of those who have truly delved into hallucinogens come back from the experience convinced we share more than one simple plain oi existence and that, there are intelligence that one senses, whilst under the influence as it were, that are wholly non human and to put it mildly, damnably inscrutable, in both their intentions and their attitude towards us apes.

Yes, the humoursly named *god spot* inside the brain is probably responsible for some of these feeling however, the fact that such psychotropic drugs do not , as was previously thought and widely assumed, expand your neural network rather, shut many parts down and both focus the brain on certain specifics and yet simultaneously, free it from the concept of *through experience i know and understand*

I like the hollow world theory, it would explain why UFO's are seen coming out of the water. they very well could have underground cavernous cities or maybe it could be that the center of earth holds the most gravity and there is some kind of gravity driven dimensional gate or wormhole type of transporation waypoint in the earth.

reply to post by Pimander


I re-read your OP on your thread, and checked out some of the links. What I thought was interesting was the binocular vision. I wonder what kind of math someone with binocular vision would create. Or maybe their vision would take a different evolutionary path.

As I typed this I just realized an argument to the theory. The theory goes onto say that the Troodon could have evolved into a humanoid dinosaur. They preyed on mammals therefore would be smarter than us. Before the extinction of the Dinosaurs 65 million years ago, these humanoid dinosaurs either went underground or up into space.

So that means before the extinction of the dinosaurs, the bi-pedal dinosaur called Troodon evolved into a humanoid, then I guess created a society, used tools, and later either built spaceships or went underground, or possibly built a star gate.

Now what I realized while I was typing my first reply, where are all the fossils of the evolutionary change? There is a really famous picture of a chimpanzee evolving into a human. We have found the fossils of those ancient humans. We've found lots of dinosaur fossils, where are all the fossils of the evolutionary change of Troodon?

It popped into my head because someone in the thread mentions, going underground and leaving the planet would explain why we can't find their fossils. I guess that is true, but what about the fossils of Troodon's evolution into a humanoid? Or maybe all the Troodons went deep underground and evolved underground? That would be kind of creepy if they were that smart before they evolved! But what about Troodon's fossils that were dug up? Were those dug up deep underground?

Also you use the word Anthroposauroid, which I googled and the only link that came up was to your thread. It would be cool to think about but I don't think it holds much weight compared to ET visitation when you really dig deep into it, no pun intended.

this is my first post and i have been waiting for the right moment to chime in. i do not want to sound belittling to anyone who has posted on this thread about their views on the possibilities of ET's. but i just do not understand how the "hallow earth" or Dinosaur theory" can sound logical, explainable or verifiable. compare those theories with the amazing findings we have uncovered with physics. the possibilities of something else being out there almost sound like a sure thing.

someone said something about the problem with game over mans thinking the he is thinking inside the box. maybe if we all did that our arguments could finally be concrete. we did not create such things as the fundamental laws by thinking outside of the box, but by pure intellect driven determination

I found this forum through my interest in particle physics, specifically the string theory and extra dimensions.
the advancing fields of study like the aforementioned may make it scientifically possible in the slightest way for all this to be possible. instead of sending you off on a goose chase about an empty sphere. educate yourself on all different studies on physics. I dont mean to bash anyone in the slightest. i just think that we might be approaching this in the wrong sense

Originally posted by TheMur
I like the hollow world theory, it would explain why UFO's are seen coming out of the water. they very well could have underground cavernous cities or maybe it could be that the center of earth holds the most gravity and there is some kind of gravity driven dimensional gate or wormhole type of transporation waypoint in the earth.

That would mean the hollow bit they come from is full of water???

When I was 15 years old (12 years ago now) I saw two separate lights in the sky at the same time that have changed my life forever.

I dont know what they were, but it's unlike anything myself, or my mother (the other witness) have ever seen. Ever since I have been researching and reading everything and anything I can to try and get an educated opinion on what I saw. So far the only thing I could call it is alien.

I dont mean alien as in 'extraterrestrial' (though that is what research has led me to belive) but alien as in ' how the hell is that possible'.

I dont discard any explanation however from what I've read to date, technology from another life form is as far fetched as the lights I'm trying to describe.

All I can say is, if what I saw was human technology, how did we jump from planes straight to that with no public knowledge.

I dont talk about it to people because of how unbelievable it sounds.

If it's human tech, bravo, I hope it was unmanned because the pilots should be dead.

I made an account after being a long time reader just to take up your 'challenge'.

All I can say is the reason I believe we are visited or have et tech is because what I saw was unbelievable, if you know what I mean.

Nothing from that point on has surprised me.

reply to post by Catch

someone said something about the problem with game over mans thinking the he is thinking inside the box. maybe if we all did that our arguments could finally be concrete. we did not create such things as the fundamental laws by thinking outside of the box, but by pure intellect driven determination

But isn't that exactly where much of our sciences come from? People who were willing to think outside the norm of their day? Even to the point of being murdered because they were consorting with demons. Or they were accused of having lost their minds.

How many of us today would try an experiment 1000 times because we truly believed it would work, though others thought the worst of us?

I think I understand what you're saying. But I think I'll stay away from being trapped inside that box.

ETA: By the way. Welcome to ATS. Glad to have you aboard.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by Catch

 

someone said something about the problem with game over mans thinking the he is thinking inside the box. maybe if we all did that our arguments could finally be concrete. we did not create such things as the fundamental laws by thinking outside of the box, but by pure intellect driven determination

But isn't that exactly where much of our sciences come from? People who were willing to think outside the norm of their day? Even to the point of being murdered because they were consorting with demons. Or they were accused of having lost their minds.

How many of us today would try an experiment 1000 times because we truly believed it would work, though others thought the worst of us?

I think I understand what you're saying. But I think I'll stay away from being trapped inside that box.

ETA: By the way. Welcome to ATS. Glad to have you aboard.

edit on 6/20/2011 by Klassified because: (no reason given)

Rather than thinking outside of the box, consider it using more advanced technology and procedures to build on what we already know. that is where the discoveries come from.

Originally posted by Catch


this is my first post and i have been waiting for the right moment to chime in. i do not want to sound belittling to anyone who has posted on this thread about their views on the possibilities of ET's. but i just do not understand how the "hallow earth" or Dinosaur theory" can sound logical, explainable or verifiable. compare those theories with the amazing findings we have uncovered with physics. the possibilities of something else being out there almost sound like a sure thing.

someone said something about the problem with game over mans thinking the he is thinking inside the box. maybe if we all did that our arguments could finally be concrete. we did not create such things as the fundamental laws by thinking outside of the box, but by pure intellect driven determination

I found this forum through my interest in particle physics, specifically the string theory and extra dimensions.
the advancing fields of study like the aforementioned may make it scientifically possible in the slightest way for all this to be possible. instead of sending you off on a goose chase about an empty sphere. educate yourself on all different studies on physics. I dont mean to bash anyone in the slightest. i just think that we might be approaching this in the wrong sense

There again, one can perfectly plausibly postulate that the *inner earth* theories are mistaken interpretations of the multi verse theory. If the "people who live under the hill" are actually from another dimension , to early humans the logical explanation for their ability to just appear and disappear would be that, they live *under the earth*.

I have mentioned this before but worth reiterating here. As a young adult in the filed of Ufology here in Britain in the late 70s, many of my peers had decided that the phenomenon was, probably, of a multi dimensional source, rather than simple aliens, from another world in our part of the multi verse, as the word means to most. At the time, there was little or no scientific evidence of theories to back this up and many chose to become skeptics rather than accept this hypothesis. Others simply retired from the field believing that. The answer was "known" in so much as it could be "known" and that only time would deliver affirmative or negative evidence, for their theories.

To quote an old friend of mine...

" A box is yours for living in, I cannot see for why, you think you've found perception's doors , they open to a lie."

Consciousness is an actual force with beings that we have not discovered yet and civilizations of consciousness exist, even on planets such as Mercury or even Pluto. They move much faster than light.

Interpretations are a real being and live in a different dimension too. Pictures, cave paintings, literature, release the interpretation in a dimension we cannot see that is faster than light. And interpretations are born into reality after you consciously create the interpretation.

There is a war going on between consciousness and interpretation in a Parallel Universe and they don't like what we've been doing in terms of thought and culture. The end result of this war between interpretation and consciousness create a by-product called attitude.

Attitude is another dimension that exists created by a difference in consciousness and interpretation, and if the disruption becomes too intense, the attitude takes mass. The attitude takes the form of UFO's and are coming into our Universe to abduct us and alter our DNA to think a certain way.

Never becomes a "friendly" discussion, is it?

Well there are a lot of signs, but obviously most of those signs can be explained in any other way. So why do I believe in aliens? First of all it is not much more than a belly-feeling: "there must be more". From young age on I looked at the starry sky and thought there had to be "something". News we have received lately about "newly discovered exo planets" and "water spraying stars" add to that thought.

The only thing that is really puzzling me is the place of the human being in our natural environment. To me it appears that nature was not/is not prepared for us humans. When you get awareness that within nature everything is perfect beside men, you easily draw the discussion that we dont "belong" here. Nature doesn't make that kind of mistakes (we don't have proof it ever did). Everything is balanced and designed into perfection. It surely feels (for me) we have been planted here of DNA of primates was altered by unknown forces.

Then the only question is: when will we know for sure? well maybe we will get a hint in 2012? but that's another thread!

cheers!

reply to post by saturnus1962

The only thing that is really puzzling me is the place of the human being in our natural environment. To me it appears that nature was not/is not prepared for us humans. When you get awareness that within nature everything is perfect beside men, you easily draw the discussion that we dont "belong" here.

An interesting point. Something to ponder. Thanks for the input.

I think this thread has remained civil as a whole. Everyone has tolerated me quite well.

reply to post by Klassified


I think it is possible that the majority of ufo sightings are actually planes at high altitude. With all the movies about ufos people are prone to think that whatever they see and cant identify as a plane is a ufo. Do you think that aliens are on earth right now but they have some kind of crypsis going on? I am certain there is life elsewhere in the universe because we have proof of it here on earth. How do you suppose aliens might conceal themselves without effort? What are your thoughts on aliens living faster than humans? Mayflies live for twentyfour hours and then die. Thank you

reply to post by CoRiBu

I think it is possible that the majority of ufo sightings are actually planes at high altitude. With all the movies about ufos people are prone to think that whatever they see and cant identify as a plane is a ufo.

As a whole. I would agree with this assessment. Thats why I tried to focus the thread on those that really do fall under the UFO category.

Do you think that aliens are on earth right now but they have some kind of crypsis going on?

Alien to us maybe. Not so sure about alien to the earth.
I'm assuming you mean crisis. If they are in crisis mode, its probably because of us.

I am certain there is life elsewhere in the universe because we have proof of it here on earth.

I would agree there is most likely life out there. Proof here on earth? Subjectively, some call it that. I'm not so sure. There is a possibility we're all nuts, and theres nothing on earth, or out there. But my gut tells me different.

How do you suppose aliens might conceal themselves without effort?

I guess I have two trains of thought on this. First. Do they need to? They may look just like us. And secondly, if they do need to, technology we may not understand yet.

What are your thoughts on aliens living faster than humans? Mayflies live for twentyfour hours and then die.

Interesting. In all honesty, I haven't thought about this. The assumption by many is that they live much longer than we do. But since we have only ancient writings, which may or may not be factual or semi-factual, who knows.

Thanks for your input.

Alien visitation is a widely variable field of interest and one that generally is a good test of how far someones "Skeptic-o-meter" will go. As such I find nothing wrong with your theories or most other theories that are floating around. What I do though is apply a swiss cheese filter to concepts that "just don't work for me". Like say that "Reptiles are bad" and "Nordics are good", for myself this is just Human bias at work and honestly I have issues with humanoid alien as a whole. My point of view is any civilzation that can cross interstellar space is going to send some kind of avatar/surrogate/robot to do the exploring, so the living beings can avoid any danger. So what are people seeing? not sure but my guess its not same beings pushing the buttons back home...