Looting breaks out as riots intensify in Vancouver

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Sorry for being off topic but most liberals I know and the ones I attended Ryerson University with are/were dead set against gun ownership in Canada and the majority of them vote liberal or NDP, two parties that for many years have deliberately made gun ownership in Canada more and more difficult. Their typical pathetic anti-gun platforms have been to appease the majority of the left in large cities like Toronto by passing such restrictions like the Liberal parties gun registration flop.

The only party that has EVER been in power and have left lawful gun owners alone are the Conservatives. When I moved out of Toronto to the north of Ontario a few years ago I saw the political landscape drastically switch from liberal to conservative the further away I moved from the large cities. ALL gun owners I know despise liberals, the Liberal Party and the NDP (unless of course they are in a union and are forced to vote for the NDP which is very sad) They see them as a massive threat to their way of life and their beliefs (not religious either).

You didn't answer my question either. Do you support the blatant destruction of peoples personal property and/or person be it either a bunch of drunken moronic idiots after a hockey game acting like little cry babies, or in other situations like G20/G8 protests?

To add, in my opinion situations like this could be less violent if store owners and security were allowed to defend thier property with firearms like the Korean community did in Los Angles during the riots of 1992. When the police fail to protect property and person the citizens of this nation should be allowed to defend it, lethal or otherwise.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

To add, in my opinion situations like this could be less violent if store owners and security were allowed to defend thier property with firearms like the Korean community did in Los Angles during the riots of 1992. When the police fail to protect property and person the citizens of this nation should be allowed to defend it, lethal or otherwise.

edit on 17-6-2011 by Jocko Flocko because: (no reason given)

So how much is human life worth to you, exactly?

$144.99?

I'm so glad to hear people like you own guns; those who think it's reasonable to shoot people to "defend your property".

These hockey fan rioters aren't very intelligent, but they don't deserve to be killed, give me a break

Send the bill to the stadium, or the national broadcasting networks, they don't seem to be complaining about the price tags attached to the events. Better yet, get the rioters to pay for it.. Ooops, nevermind, taxpayers have to pick up that bill...

I'm so glad to hear people like you own guns; those who think it's reasonable to shoot people to "defend your property".

And why shouldn't it be? Oh, let me guess, in liberal la la land the average law abiding citizen who owns a shop with quite a large amount of stock value inside should just sit back and let troglodytes burn, destroy and loot at will? If some imbecile from the city ever came onto my property and tried to burn down my house with me in it, he/she is either going to be going home with either a severe limp or to the city morgue, sorry thats the way it is.

Send the bill to the stadium, or the national broadcasting networks, they don't seem to be complaining about the price tags attached to the events.

And why on earth would the people hosting the event or the networks covering them be forced to pay for any property damage caused by rioters? I'm not seeing your logic?

Better yet, get the rioters to pay for it..

Exactly. Anyone who is convicted of these acts of property damage should be forced to pay a portion of the final amount of total damage of peoples or city property. If not, then a lean should be put on any property they own and their credit rating destroyed until such fines are paid in full.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko

I'm so glad to hear people like you own guns; those who think it's reasonable to shoot people to "defend your property".

And why shouldn't it be? Oh, let me guess, in liberal la la land the average law abiding citizen who owns a shop with quite a large amount of stock value inside should just sit back and let troglodytes burn, destroy and loot at will? If some imbecile from the city ever came onto my property and tried to burn down my house with me in it, he/she is either going to be going home with either a severe limp or to the city morgue, sorry thats the way it is.

No leap there, just "stealing and looting", "trying to kill me", same thing, right?

And why on earth would the people hosting the event or the networks covering them be forced to pay for any property damage caused by rioters? I'm not seeing your logic?

Because the stadium is the reason that everyone is in that area of the city... they are a huge venue sucking outrageous ticket prices out of drunken fans then unleashing them onto the streets in fits of rage, something an independent bar owner would never get away with. The MSM will collectively make far more money covering the riot and aftermath of such than the actual damages done to the city, and then get a tax break at the end of the year so that none of that money gets recirculated to fix the actual problem.

reply to post by TheOrangeBrood

No leap there, just "stealing and looting", "trying to kill me", same thing, right?

Ok, sorry. If I was sitting in my yard and had access to my rifle I wouldn't sit back and watch some piece of human garbage try and burn down my house, better?

Because the stadium is the reason that everyone is in that area of the city... they are a huge venue sucking outrageous ticket prices out of drunken fans then unleashing them onto the streets in fits of rage, something an independent bar owner would never get away with. The MSM will collectively make far more money covering the riot and aftermath of such than the actual damages done to the city, and then get a tax break at the end of the year so that none of that money gets recirculated to fix the actual problem.

This has got to be one of the silliest things I have ever read, sorry man, I don't see your logic at all. It's basically like saying Budweiser should have to pay the families of drunk driving victims becasue a few idiotic drivers don't obey the law, lets nerf the whole world shall we? You are really missing the whole massive point of personal accountability here. Some people will try and put the responsibility on someone else rather than the idiots commiting the crimes and it's outrageous.

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

I really do not feel I need to know what a Canuck is to understand stupid drunken riots. All I needed to know was it was about a foolish sports game that idiots got worked up over.

BTW hockey is a sport not a religion, no matter how badly some want it to be.

You still appear to know nothing about BC culture, let alone Canadian culture, yet you're still picking sides in something that you don't understand nor have ever experienced before.

I think this behavior should be documented.

Jocko Flocko-
Sorry for being off topic but most liberals I know and the ones I attended Ryerson University with are/were dead set against gun ownership in Canada and the majority of them vote liberal or NDP...

Ryerson University in TORONTO, ONTARIO?

I keep reading your posts, and you keep making the same assumptions over again. First of all, Canada is a federation of provinces. Every province has varying culture, and it changes greatly between BC and Ontario. Your "liberals" are not the same as ours.

For instance, most leftist-minded people in BC don't even vote. They don't care about politics and they think even talking about it is retarded, which considering modern Canada, I can almost agree with.

So labelling Canadians based on who they vote for is a sad assessment, in my opinion, because the true "liberals" of this country aren't fooled by this sham democracy of ours and would rather live free than vote for to be free.

You didn't answer my question either. Do you support the blatant destruction of peoples personal property and/or person be it either a bunch of drunken moronic idiots after a hockey game acting like little cry babies, or in other situations like G20/G8 protests?

It's a riot. Get over yourself.

Everyone knew it was going to happen; most probably left their vehicles out there just to get the insurance.

And do you considering big business stores to be personal property? Because I don't. They're corporate property, and as so they are subject to OUR culture. If they don't want to get hit up in a riot every few years, then reconsider another venue location.

As for domestic businesses in the area, that's another story. However, I haven't seen or read anything stating that they were attacked. And even if they were, it's just collateral damage and insurance should cover it all.

To add, in my opinion situations like this could be less violent if store owners and security were allowed to defend thier property with firearms like the Korean community did in Los Angles during the riots of 1992. When the police fail to protect property and person the citizens of this nation should be allowed to defend it, lethal or otherwise.

Los Angeles? We aren't Yankies.

Do you have any idea of the reprecussions if anybody got shot during the Vancouver riot (and nobody did)? You can talk tough all you want, but you wouldn't be shooting into a crowd of 100,000 people if you didn't expect to wind up dead yourself while invoking actual violence in the riot.

By the way, since when does destruction to private property become violence?

And why on earth would the people hosting the event or the networks covering them be forced to pay for any property damage caused by rioters? I'm not seeing your logic?

1) They were charging over $1000 for seats to see the game.
2) Everyone knew this was going to happen.
3) It's the right thing to do considering the millions made from the event, unless the executives can't part with their bonuses.

Ok, sorry. If I was sitting in my yard and had access to my rifle I wouldn't sit back and watch some piece of human garbage try and burn down my house, better?

WTF are you talking about? This isn't about you sitting in your yard, this is about 100,000 people in the streets of Vancouver. Ever been in Vancouver during a riot or other celebrations (like Canada Day or 420)?

Human garbage, eh? These are your fellow citizens that you're talking about, don't ever forget that.

Some people will try and put the responsibility on someone else rather than the idiots commiting the crimes and it's outrageous.

Yeah, some people would pin the responsibility on someone else. This coming from the guy who wants severe penalties for the rioters while not even trying to understand why 100,000 people were on the streets rioting in the first place

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

I keep reading your posts, and you keep making the same assumptions over again. First of all, Canada is a federation of provinces. Every province has varying culture, and it changes greatly between BC and Ontario. Your "liberals" are not the same as ours.

I have been from Vancouver to St Johns, I have been all over Canada many times in my life and the political spectrum is very similar, it was 20 years ago and it still is today. It changes somewhat slightly from province to province, but not as much as you claim it does. I spent a year in BC in the city of Squamish working as a flight instructor at the local airstrip just north of the city so spare me the "all knowing attitude" Dimitri. Canadians generally see the Conservatives on the right, the LIberals in the middle and the NDP on the left. Marijuana and green parties are extreme left.

For instance, most leftist-minded people in BC don't even vote. They don't care about politics and they think even talking about it is retarded, which considering modern Canada, I can almost agree with.

Which is quite sad as everyone SHOULD be voting in this country, without doing so the proper parties aren't getting into power. Why would debating politics be "retarded"? It's only retarded when your typical uneducated CBC brainwashed Canadian starts spouting anti American drivel and you are constantly having to correct them, then it gets tiresome.

So labelling Canadians based on who they vote for is a sad assessment, in my opinion, because the true "liberals" of this country aren't fooled by this sham democracy of ours and would rather live free than vote for to be free.

Can you define a true Liberal in Canada? What constitutes a true Liberal in your mind, im curious? It's only a sham of a democracy when the party you voted for doesn't gain power. I've heard a few whiney liberals at work complain about the conservatives yet at the same time never even bothered to vote which is quite sad. The funny things is they usually whine and complain about the consevatives while using CBC web links as NEWS sources, ironic eh?

It's a riot. Get over yourself.

No thanks, a riot is a serious thing and in my opinion shows a mindset that is far to often accepted in this country as common and "ok". The blatant destruction of property is not acceptable be it corporate, personal or municipal and in the end only seeks to acomplish one thing; robbing hard working individuals of their hard earned money.

Everyone knew it was going to happen; most probably left their vehicles out there just to get the insurance.

Riiight...

And do you considering big business stores to be personal property? Because I don't. They're corporate property, and as so they are subject to OUR culture. If they don't want to get hit up in a riot every few years, then reconsider another venue location.

Abolutely, especially when people who work for those corporations have interests in them like stock options or holdings, when they get burned to the ground or robbed by some communist/anarchist loving piece of vile garbage, it hits them in the pocket-book and costs their company money. Btw, our culture is pretty clear the last time I checked, we are based on an open market semi-capitalist society and having a bunch of little cry babies running around in the street having a tantrum will not change a thing, especially when those same retards don't even have the brain power to vote.

And even if they were, it's just collateral damage and insurance should cover it all.

Thats sad but at the same time typical of todays generation in this country. The "ah, someone else will pay for it" mentality is far to apparent these days however it's to be expected in this country with it's nanny state social policies. Don't worry, someone else will pay the bill. PATHETIC.

Los Angeles? We aren't Yankies.

Nope, we sure aren't, but we could sure learn a thing or two from them, especially from the 2nd amendment part of their constitution. You should know that as you told me you were denied a firearm because of our pathetic backward system that basically stops law abiding citizens from protecting themselves.

Do you have any idea of the reprecussions if anybody got shot during the Vancouver riot (and nobody did)? You can talk tough all you want, but you wouldn't be shooting into a crowd of 100,000 people if you didn't expect to wind up dead yourself while invoking actual violence in the riot.

I disagree. The fact of the matter is if shop-keepers and security were allowed to defend their property with firearms I do believe the deterrent factor **might** detour a few morons from destroying property. Even a shop-keeper standing on the roof of his shop with a 12 guage shotgon loaded with rubber batons would suffice, a couple of those things in the stomach would quickly get the point across.

By the way, since when does destruction to private property become violence?

You're kidding right? You are what age again?

Btw, you still never answered the question Dimiti. AGAIN!

Do you support the blatant destruction of peoples personal property and/or person be it either a bunch of drunken moronic idiots after a hockey game acting like little cry babies, or in other situations like G20/G8 protests?

Ryerson University in TORONTO, ONTARIO?

Yes.

1) They were charging over $1000 for seats to see the game.
2) Everyone knew this was going to happen.
3) It's the right thing to do considering the millions made from the event, unless the executives can't part with their bonuses.

Doh!

1) Stay HOME and watch it on TV and let those who can afford it have a nice night out
2)Right.....
3)So let me get this straight, because I want to make sure you honestly think this way. You want the executives to pay for the damages caused by these idiots because they are just a bunch of angry little cry babies who have no respect for personal property and no respect for the law and think that executives make to much money? "Hey you big bad executives! Drop ticket prices or else we will riot and destroy personal property!" WOW. Are you one of those "anarchist" guys by any chance? It would explain quite a bit if so...

WTF are you talking about? This isn't about you sitting in your yard, this is about 100,000 people in the streets of Vancouver. Ever been in Vancouver during a riot or other celebrations (like Canada Day or 420)?

Do I really need to tell you it was directed towards a different poster while trying explain the importance of personal defence and property, go back and read please.

Yeah, some people would pin the responsibility on someone else. This coming from the guy who wants severe penalties for the rioters while not even trying to understand why 100,000 people were on the streets rioting in the first place

Ahh then, please explain it to me because by your logic the blackmail of rioting in the streets is fine and dandy in your eyes, especially when it comes to those big nasty corporations.

Human garbage, eh? These are your fellow citizens that you're talking about, don't ever forget that.

Yup, vile disgusting human garbage. I would go as far as to say that those folks should have their organs removed and donated to people on wait lists, better? good!

And here's an even better question for you. Do you think that all the money in Canada made by big companies should be divided up evenly among Canadians?

Rioters Disguised as Canucks Fans

"These were people who came equipped with masks, goggles and gasoline, even fire extinguishers that they would use as weapons," Chu said in the aftermath of riots that brought shame to an entire nation Thursday.

Police said almost 100 people have been arrested and 387 incidents have been reported throughout the city ranging from fires to medical injuries.

Looks like the majority of these troglodytes weren't even in the arena attending the game but intentionally went down to the area to cause personal damage and destruction to peoples property.


Vancouver Police Arrest More than 100 in Riot (CBC link that's actually quite good)

Chu apologized to business owners who became the victims of rioters, but defended the police's tactical decision to focus on public safety and suppress the riot by dispersing the crowd, rather than rushing to hotspots as crowds attacked stores.

He described the instigators as anarchists and criminals who appeared to be the same people involved in the pre-Olympic demonstrations and noted police saw many equipped with goggles, gasoline and other tools to create damage.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
I have been from Vancouver to St Johns, I have been all over Canada many times in my life and the political spectrum is very similar, it was 20 years ago and it still is today.

20 years ago is 20 years ago. It is not the same.

Which is quite sad as everyone SHOULD be voting in this country, without doing so the proper parties aren't getting into power. Why would debating politics be "retarded"? It's only retarded when your typical uneducated CBC brainwashed Canadian starts spouting anti American drivel and you are constantly having to correct them, then it gets tiresome.

What does the CBC have to do with anything? CBC is anti-American?

Most people aren't interested in Canadian politics because, if you've ever studied it before like I have, you might realize that it is so full of burearocracy and rules and other BS that you need specific schooling just to understand part of it.

The other reason is that most politicians are shapeless, formless talking-heads for private interests that no common citizen really cares about (for example, Stephen Harper and the American North American agenda).

Why don't people vote? Because it's a sham. It is laughable to think that you can make a difference by voting here. Our system is so old and archiac that you can be considered a "majority" leader by obtaining roughly 30% of the Canadian vote.

Can you define a true Liberal in Canada?

You're asking me to define what I already described to you (which you quoted)

There are so many aspects to a liberal Canadian that I cannot possibly hope to list them all here for you.

However, I will list what a typical modern Canadian neo-conservative is concerned with: accumilation of money, wholesale prices for exporting our energy, supporting imperialist war, integration with the US... oh, and disarming the public.

You seem to have this hard on for believing that the conservatives believe in freer gun laws. They most certainly do not want us to be armed.

The blatant destruction of property is not acceptable be it corporate, personal or municipal and in the end only seeks to acomplish one thing; robbing hard working individuals of their hard earned money.

Yeah, because the transnational corporate owners work very hard to make a profit, right? The only thing that they work hard at is lobbying our government for more power and money, at our expense.

Do you know what a sustenance wage means? It's what most Canadians earn, so you should know it.

I'll just tell you. It's when you're paid just enough to pay rent and eat (and cover some either minor bills), to the point where you spend all of your days worrying about money instead of the bigger picture.

This brings this discussion full circle. All of these rioters happen to live on "sustenance wages" and like anyone with half of a brain, they felt robbed for investing so much of their time and precious money into a massive failure while the people running the event profited big time.

But I guess all of the managers and corporate executives and hockey players worked hard for their millions, harder than the rioters who maybe earn 2000-5000 a month.

especially when those same retards don't even have the brain power to vote.

Don't worry, they see the people who vote as retards for having so much faith in a system that they will never be able to influence by following the system's rules.

Thats sad but at the same time typical of todays generation in this country. The "ah, someone else will pay for it" mentality is far to apparent these days however it's to be expected in this country with it's nanny state social policies. Don't worry, someone else will pay the bill. PATHETIC.

What is the point of buying insurance if it doesn't pay for the damage, huh?

Do you have any idea how much profit insurance companies rake in, mostly just from fighting all the legitimate claims that they can with superior lawyers? I don't think any businesses affected will have much problem proving their case with all of the footage.

. You should know that as you told me you were denied a firearm because of our pathetic backward system that basically stops law abiding citizens from protecting themselves

Actually my situation goes far beyond that. I trained, applied, and even paid for my PAL so I could have a gun so I can go hunting (I am also licensed for that). Unfortunately, there's a record on me somewhere on some government database that states that I am a menace to society. It's not a criminal record either.

Oh, and this record has also got me barred from military service. Funny how our government cares so much about us, eh?

I used to believe in our government when I was like, 12 years old. Then when I expected to pass through the system and earn a fine military career (like other relatives of mine) and retire and whatever, the system chewed me and shat me out.

I know what it is now: a complete farce that feeds on our humanity.

That's why I'm not allowed to legally own guns; because it's not a freedom, it's a priviledge and has been for some time. It has nothing to do with whoever is in government as you like to believe; it has to do with who owns government, which is the economic elite and they sure the hell don't want us owning guns and interfering with the political implementation of economic pacts and investor's rights agreements (they know what citizens with guns can do for their lives just by looking at the Zapatista movement in Mexico, or any underground organization).

I disagree. The fact of the matter is if shop-keepers and security were allowed to defend their property with firearms I do believe the deterrent factor **might** detour a few morons from destroying property. Even a shop-keeper standing on the roof of his shop with a 12 guage shotgon loaded with rubber batons would suffice, a couple of those things in the stomach would quickly get the point across.

I can't believe how ignorant you still are on this. All that would do is incite real violence in the riot.

You know what would be a real deterant? Standing in front of your property and using communication. Where were the corporate owners in Vancouver? Nowhere to be seen, because like you they refuse to see these rioters as fellow people, and more like problems that need a solution.

There is even a video floating around where in under 10 seconds, a rioter jumps into a phone store, jumps out with some merchandise, a guy on the street takes him down to the cement and chucks the merchandise back into the store, and lets the looter get up and walk away. No guns involved and the looter got the point.

You're kidding right? You are what age again?

I'm 21 years old and I also have security training. I've been trained to know what destruction to property is and it's not violence. Violence means somebody gets hurt.

Claiming that destroying property is violence is just so wrong in so many ways. First off, you're basically giving more power to corporations to protect their interests. Secondly, you're giving more power to police to arrest you and put you in jail for violence when you've never intended (mens rea) or acted (actus rea) to hurt anyone.

Btw, you still never answered the question Dimiti. AGAIN!

Do you support the blatant destruction of peoples personal property and/or person be it either a bunch of drunken moronic idiots after a hockey game acting like little cry babies, or in other situations like G20/G8 protests?

Yeah, actually I did answer this but I guess you see it as a black and white question when I am not able to give you a simple yes or no answer.

Destroying personal property has nothing to do with hurting anyone (especially in terms of a riot). Damn rights I support it during a riot.

I don't support injuring anyone unless they truly deserve it, especially as self-defense.

1) Stay HOME and watch it on TV and let those who can afford it have a nice night out
2)Right.....
3)So let me get this straight, because I want to make sure you honestly think this way. You want the executives to pay for the damages caused by these idiots because they are just a bunch of angry little cry babies who have no respect for personal property and no respect for the law and think that executives make to much money? "Hey you big bad executives! Drop ticket prices or else we will riot and destroy personal property!" WOW. Are you one of those "anarchist" guys by any chance? It would explain quite a bit if so...

1) These people can do whatever they want or please. It is their freedom. This isn't some elitist sport where only the rich are allowed to attend (just like how the RCMP fenced off the olympic sites to keep away the locals).
3) Sounds like a legitimate reason to me.

Am I an anarchist? If I fit the label, then ten years ago I would also be a terrorist; 30 years ago, I'd be communist; 70 years ago, I'd be a Nazi, 150 years ago, I'd be an American.

I am a conscience human engaged in class war, with dreams of what the world can do when we purge money and all its greed-filled bastard warpigs with it.

Yup, vile disgusting human garbage. I would go as far as to say that those folks should have their organs removed and donated to people on wait lists, better? good!

Even if you disagree or agree with the riots, you're now saying that your fellow citizens should be killed for it.

And here's an even better question for you. Do you think that all the money in Canada made by big companies should be divided up evenly among Canadians?

If you think that's how I think, than you really underestimate my capabilities.

I would nationalize corporations in my country (which is the ultimate threat to globalism, hence why there are so many corporate protections in place against this in NAFTA). My people would reap the rewards that our territory has to offer, instead of plucking it all out of the ground and shipping it away without profit. We would prosper, the population would boom, health would vastly improve, and the wealth gap would even out very quickly (especially after a few resolutions made to re-direct the unnecessary stockpiles of money that the elite control to public services and incentive programs). Also, I would conduct a vast construction project in Canada's north to promote Arctic sovereignty by developing new technology to build cities in extreme conditions.

Another thing I would do is create a national space program, which would really piss off the elite while we carry out the promises made to ALL people of the world to expand our presence in our solar system.

Rioters Disguised as Canucks Fans

Seriously? I don't even know where to start in ripping this PR piece apart. Maybe I could start by saying that all of British Columbians wear Canucks clothing all the time. Or I could point out that most would be wearing it on THE SAME DAY AS THE FINAL GAME.

There is no conspiracy that shadowy, anarchist protesters dawned on Canucks jerseys and laid waste to Vancouver. This is the war in your head that the Harper regime and his RCMP goons want you to believe.

And who is this organization that the establishment is trying to blame for riots at the G20/Olympics/Canucks game? It's very sketchy claims at best. They all blame the "Black Block" on the Canadian media, but the only serious BB protesters that I've seen happen to wear police-issue boots, incite violence, and bust out batons randomly to disperse crowds.

As far as I am concerned, the BB is all police. I haven't seen the BB mentioned ANYWHERE else other than during these riots, nor have I even heard of them before the G20 riots. Now that's pretty strange considering I already fit the bill and I tend to notice such people in my country. I think it's all a big fabrication that uneducated Canadians bite hook, line and sinker.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


This is why the NWO thinks most of the ppl are sheep.

This is why the NWO isn't particularly worried about their plans being foiled.

This is why the NWO has dozens of channels dedicated to various forms
of mass distraction on satellite and cable.

The classic magician trick is to distract the audience.

With what is added to the food and water, its a piece of cake, and so it goes...

We won't fight to help the homeless, the ppl being foreclosed, the ppl that
were looted by the banksters, but we will fight over "a game".

The mantra of bread and circuses is lost on the Idiocracy.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
reply to post by TheOrangeBrood

 

No leap there, just "stealing and looting", "trying to kill me", same thing, right?

Ok, sorry. If I was sitting in my yard and had access to my rifle I wouldn't sit back and watch some piece of human garbage try and burn down my house, better?

Well, sorry, I must have forgotten that vandalism is more serious than murder. Yes, now I understand the reality of the situation, you are a typically vindictive "me, me ,me" pseudo-conservative. Everyone must respect your property even though you clearly respect absolutely nothing about them. Respect is demanded and never earned... unless we're talking about people outside of yourself... because they are just target practice. Wana do me a solid and get the hell out of Ontario? You're embarrassing.

Because the stadium is the reason that everyone is in that area of the city... they are a huge venue sucking outrageous ticket prices out of drunken fans then unleashing them onto the streets in fits of rage, something an independent bar owner would never get away with. The MSM will collectively make far more money covering the riot and aftermath of such than the actual damages done to the city, and then get a tax break at the end of the year so that none of that money gets recirculated to fix the actual problem.

This has got to be one of the silliest things I have ever read, sorry man, I don't see your logic at all. It's basically like saying Budweiser should have to pay the families of drunk driving victims becasue a few idiotic drivers don't obey the law, lets nerf the whole world shall we? You are really missing the whole massive point of personal accountability here. Some people will try and put the responsibility on someone else rather than the idiots commiting the crimes and it's outrageous.

Um how did Budweiser get pulled into this? Independent bar owners are not allowed to just unleash pissed off drunks into the streets, and if they do, they have to pay for any damages they cause (usually to a suing insurance company)... why is the stadium allowed to just let them all loose and get off the hook completely? Because you have a gun? And you question my logic ! My logic is completely linear, yours is all over the place... but that's probably just because you're flailing. So, let me get this clear, "level-headed northern-Ontario conservative", Out of the whole situation you think that none of these financial institutions that actually have the money and could legally be forced to pay for the damages should be forced to do so, and instead taxpayers should pick up the bill:

Stadium
Insurance Companies

And it's A-Okay with you that those who will profit most from covering the riots and aftermath -- the MSM -- is going to get a tax break so that they don't even pay any of the tax that will contribute to rebuilding the city?

Don't jump on the "Your logic sucks" train, because you will on succeed in making yourself look like a doorknob. There is absolutely no reason that these companies should be exempt from helping fix the mess that they were involved in and/or profited from. You protecting them is not "Northern-Ontario conservative values", it's fascism. "Make the recessed people pay for business mistakes"!

Maybe you should stick to shooting deer. We don't need any more of Harper's anti-logical defendants of corporate greed, thank you.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Fine, I could care less about hockey "culture" of property destruction. It is good to know you stand behind drunken idiots destroying the livelyhood of others. Way to trample the rights of your neighbors. And all this for "a little fun" I suppose.


I find it interesting that the attempt is to make me look bad for not "knowing" about the destructive culture of hockey and drunken idiocy, yet it is perfectly "normal" to think drunken idiocy is the right thing.

Facts are yes I know nothing about hockey. Facts are these rioters were drunken buffoons that deserve the fullest extent of punishment. Facts are the destruction of personal property is more important than some stupid drunks destructive fun. Facts are I have no use for stupid destructive drunks.

These people destroyed the property of others and even harmed a few others in their drunken state of buffoonery, you might want to reconsider you values on this. I do not need to know squat about hockey to know these people are stupid drunks.


Raist

Here is another example of your "great" rioters.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These guys got beat down for screwing with someone's car. Not their property, but they feel a need to destroy it.

Being an adult, property owner, and tax payer I can tell you I work hard to own the property I do. If someone wants to come along and try to destroy what I have worked my life to attain they will most likely end up injured just like the guy in this thread that gets knocked out. I might not be as nice though.

Sure property is not human life, but we spend our life working to get the little we have. It is only the spoiled, those who feel entitled, those who do not own property or pay taxes, or those with no sense of morals that condone this sort of behavior.

This will be my last attempt to explain how stupid these drunks were as it seems you are neither a property owner nor a tax payer or were one of the rioters or maybe a mix of the latter.

Regardless it is wrong to support such drunken stupidity. One does not need to know about hockey or its destructive "culture" (since you claim this is a culture I can only assume that all hockey fans and players are like this, though I think you are wrong) to know this is wrong and stupid. Only an idiot would find joy in destruction of property over a sporting event. Again I feel you are wrong on this "culture" idea you have and the "culture" is nothing more than your own way of condoning immature drunken destruction.

Culture is one thing this is just drunken idiocy.

Raist

20 years ago is 20 years ago. It is not the same.

From the time I lived in Calgary when I was 12 up until a few years ago, and all the times I have stayed in BC, the political mindset hasn't changed much in the last 20 years.

What does the CBC have to do with anything? CBC is anti-American?

1.2 billion dollars a year blatantly so to the point it's sickening. I can provide you with links to blatant left wing bias if you so wish.

Most people aren't interested in Canadian politics because, if you've ever studied it before like I have, you might realize that it is so full of burearocracy and rules and other BS that you need specific schooling just to understand part of it.

No, unfortunately I never studied anything to do with politics, after my service with the Canadian forces I was taking computer sciences and electronics engineering at Ryerson, which was always quite boring but did prove usefull in the end as I do make a 6 figure salary each year, but money isn't everything. If I were to go back today and do it again I might actually take the political route as I find it quite interesting.

The other reason is that most politicians are shapeless, formless talking-heads for private interests that no common citizen really cares about (for example, Stephen Harper and the American North American agenda).

This I agree with, however Dimitri I tend to vote for the party that is going to take the least amount of money out of my pocket and the party that is least likely to spend that money on useless garbage. I am a working man and I despise big governemnt and red tape and am completely against the North American Union after researching it further.

Why don't people vote? Because it's a sham. It is laughable to think that you can make a difference by voting here. Our system is so old and archiac that you can be considered a "majority" leader by obtaining roughly 30% of the Canadian vote.

It's like that for a specific reason Dimitri. The system gives other parts of the population not living in the large cities a voice, they are evenly represented in parliment and vote in MP's to represent them. If it was the opposite, where the majority vote always won, the big city people would always have the say in political decision making. The values that someone living in Toronto has is drastically different from someone living north of the city in North Bay for example (A city I used to live in 400km's north of Toronto).

You seem to have this hard on for believing that the conservatives believe in freer gun laws. They most certainly do not want us to be armed.

It's a fact that most if not all current gun legislation has been brought about by nanny state loving liberals and their complete disregard of actual facts concerning gun crime. I have yet to see the Conservatives tighten current gun laws. However we all know the liberals stand on gun laws don't we Dimitri?

Yeah, because the transnational corporate owners work very hard to make a profit, right? The only thing that they work hard at is lobbying our government for more power and money, at our expense.

Yeah because those corportions don't employ people at all right? Having a bunch of drunken moronic idiots running around destroying peoples property is not acceptable and if you think it is you seriously need to reconsider your moral compass.

This brings this discussion full circle. All of these rioters happen to live on "sustenance wages" and like anyone with half of a brain, they felt robbed for investing so much of their time and precious money into a massive failure while the people running the event profited big time.

Yes dimitri, Im so sure all of those idiots running around destroying property were concerned about "sustenance wages". Come on man, you don't honestly believe that do you? They were nothing more than a bunch of little cry babies looking for an oportunity to cause destruction and mayhem. If they were actually concerned with such things they woukld be going after real targets like the local provinical parliment instead of going after innocent soft targets like small buisness's and personal property. Ah, but don't worry, us tax payers will foot the bill for the retards and their little tantrums.

But I guess all of the managers and corporate executives and hockey players worked hard for their millions, harder than the rioters who maybe earn 2000-5000 a month.

Ahhh, so now it's the hockey players as well that are responsible for the blatant destruction in the city. Come on man, just because a few hockey players and managers have made something out of thier lives and reached the point that they can earn the wages they do doesn't give a bunch of hooligans the right to destroy presonal property and riot in the streets like children. I don't think you really care about personal property though because as I've read so far you are nothing more than an anarchist who believes that destroying personal property and causing a riot might lead to some kind of political change. Trust me, it doesn't and will only gain you more enemies in the long run.

Don't worry, they see the people who vote as retards for having so much faith in a system that they will never be able to influence by following the system's rules.

At least we partake in the voting system and are heard, especially this last election. Poeople who don't vote and are running around complaining about the system are nothing more than walking oxy-morons and I have ZERO sympathy for them. They are in a sense a walking joke.

Do you have any idea how much profit insurance companies rake in, mostly just from fighting all the legitimate claims that they can with superior lawyers? I don't think any businesses affected will have much problem proving their case with all of the footage.

Oh so now it's also the duty of insurrance companies to pay for the temper tantrums of these troglodytes. It doesn't matter that those rioting morons acting like complete jack asses destroying property drive up insurrance prices for small buissness's right? I see your logic now Dimitri. WOW.

Actually my situation goes far beyond that. I trained, applied, and even paid for my PAL so I could have a gun so I can go hunting (I am also licensed for that). Unfortunately, there's a record on me somewhere on some government database that states that I am a menace to society. It's not a criminal record either.

You can apply to have that removed and anything to do with you in the past as a minor should automatically be removed once you turn 18, unless it was something major or to do with mental health, then you have to go through the process of appeal and pardon. I stole a car when I was 14 and the record wasn't there after I turned 18, it was erased. However, I was charged with assault one night during a drunken idiotic fight outside of a strip club back when I was 22 and had to apply for a pardon which was quite easy.

You know what would be a real deterant? Standing in front of your property and using communication. Where were the corporate owners in Vancouver? Nowhere to be seen, because like you they refuse to see these rioters as fellow people, and more like problems that need a solution.

And I can't believe how ignorant you are to actually think that trying to communicate with any of these rampaging morons would do any good at all. Here's how I think the conversation would go:

"Excuse me sir, would you please not destroy the front of my store or burn my car to the ground, I'm just an innocent store owner trying to make a living minding my own buiness"

"blurp RARRRRRRRRRRR, Vancounver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Blurp rar, F$#K you a%^ hole, hahahahaha, arrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Yeeeehaw! ANARCHY!!!!!!! Blurp rarrrrrrrr!"

Yeah Dimitri, great idea...

Claiming that destroying property is violence is just so wrong in so many ways. First off, you're basically giving more power to corporations to protect their interests. Secondly, you're giving more power to police to arrest you and put you in jail for violence when you've never intended (mens rea) or acted (actus rea) to hurt anyone.

It's a violent act against personal property and protecting that property should be the upmost primary mission of the police either using heavy batons, tear gas or rubber bullets. Peoples property is far more important than the dillusional agenda of a bunch of rampaging moronic idiots hell bent on destroying everything in sight. Again, if you support such activities you seriously need to re-evaluate your moral compass. It's counterproductive behaviour that will NOT be accepted by the general public.

Destroying personal property has nothing to do with hurting anyone (especially in terms of a riot). Damn rights I support it during a riot.

Wow, you really are on a roll here. So the shop keepers who have to recover the losses of stock, clean up the mess and deal with high insurance rates aren't being hurt? See the above statement about your moral compass.

These people can do whatever they want or please. It is their freedom. This isn't some elitist sport where only the rich are allowed to attend (just like how the RCMP fenced off the olympic sites to keep away the locals).

No, they can't. They are not allowed to run rampant and break the law by destroying property and burning cars while acting like a bunch of cavemen. If you think they do have the right to do such things then you might want to get out of this country and go elsewhere, your kind is not wanted here. They are however allowed to gather peacefully either in protest or to cheer on their hockey team. I have no problems with people peacfully voicing their opposition to high ticket prices, corporate conspiracies or whatnot, it's their natural born right as a Canadian. However, please, leave the gasoline, gas masks and other destructive items at home.

Sounds like a legitimate reason to me.

It does eh? WOW, thanks for clearing that up, I'm actually in awe that an "educated" person attending a University would think this way. I know from experience that the academia in Ontario Universities teach from a biased viewpoint as I used to get talked over when I questioned the motives of my teachers years ago. Do the professors of today teach blatant anarchism and disregard for law and personal property?

I am a conscience human engaged in class war, with dreams of what the world can do when we purge money and all its greed-filled bastard warpigs with it.

Congratulations and good luck with that, thankfully you have a snowballs chance in hell of convincing people in this country that anarchy is the way to go.

Since you are an anarchist and obviously support the blatant destruction of peoples property, be it corporate, perosnal or otherwise, there's nothing more to be said other than stay away from Ontario and keep your garbage ideals in the big cities, ok? Just don't start crying when the rubber bullets start flying after your ilk crosses the line some point in the future.

Good luck Dimitri, you'll need it.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


So your an anarchist then....

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

So your an anarchist then....

An anarchist is somebody who engages in populist reactionism, usually because they don't understand the system and would rather fight it tooth and nail.

I have already penetrated the system. Those who follow me may do it blindly, but that's because I am the one with the agenda.

I cannot be an anarchist if I am conscience about it.

I will respond to other posts later.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

So your an anarchist then....

An anarchist is somebody who engages in populist reactionism, usually because they don't understand the system and would rather fight it tooth and nail.

I stopped here because you answered my question. Contrary to whatever excuse you want to try and use, you are in fact an anarchist.

reply to post by Xcathdra


No X, this guy is something else entirely.

He doesn't care about property rights. He's basically a communist who enjoys chaos and destruction but certainly isn't an anarchist.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

No X, this guy is something else entirely.

He doesn't care about property rights. He's basically a communist who enjoys chaos and destruction but certainly isn't an anarchist.

There is nothing wrong with property rights if the property is owned by actual people and not corporations.

You see, there's a serious problem here and it's that corporations are legally defined as people with all of the same rights. Corporations are not people; corporations are large-scale businesses operated as a pyramid structure with the rich at the top and the workers on the bottom, and this is the way they legally have to be as a CEO is legally obligated to serve one function only: to earn more profits.

Capitalism itself is an extremely flawed system simply because after a few generations of it, the wealth gap divides greatly while the acclaimed opportunity to become rich yourself dwindles since the people born rich will only suck dry opportunity from everyone else because that's the only way they're going to keep making profits.

The capitalist system on a national level also has a pattern to its development:
merchant capitalism -> industrial capitalism -> finance capitalism -> globalism (when corporations are above national boundaries)

Finance capitalism is the point where profit can be made by investing. On a national level, this has proven to mean dumping cash into other countries for a profitable return. In reality, this is imperialism. Investing in other countries really only means that you will end up controlling their resources, assets, and ultimately, their mode of production.

Over the last ten years or so, the federal neo-conservative government of Canada has made it clear that we have reached the imperialist stage, which the US has been at for some time. We now work hand in hand with the Americans in meddling in the affairs of sovereign countries so we can benefit from exploiting them.

In order for this to be successful, our imperialist system REQUIRES the corporate elite to be a part of the political system. Banks and transnational corporations have become the backbone of both the American and Canadian governments because they are the economic arm, and this is vital on a global stage where power is dictated by how developed your economic growth is.

To support this, the police and other security forces and the judicial system follow the order to protect privatization and the rich. What this means is that governments NO LONGER represent the people, but rather corporate interests. This is the definition of fascism

Both the US and Canada have fascist leadership with imperialist foreign policies.

The fact is that in order for this system to keep on surviving, the rich need to always keep getting richer which is only going to keep repressing the people living under them.

The reason why Canadians riot is because they feel the effects of this. Our freedoms are slowly eroded away, intentially as to not incite alarm, until we find ourselves unable to defend our liberty against the government and the elite as they will eventually repress us into submission.

Notice how I say us. I mean us, in "free" North America. The truth is that transnational corporations already control private armies AND influence government forces into protecting their assets and prospects in weaker, "colony" countries. The full extent of our fascism is felt a world away from here, mostly because we are conditioned to a "standard" way of life where our minds do not fixate on holding our government responsible for its actions, or regulating the runaway power of the economic elite.

And we rarely question what the government is really up to, because we live under a vast illusion that we are free, yet we have to live by their everchanging laws while our economies thrive on the blood, sweat and tears of foreign countries that we bomb.

The reason why people were piled into Vancouver's streets was because of the hockey game. The reason why it broke out into a full-scale riot was because in every socially and politically conscious Canadian, in the back of their minds, lays contempt for what our country has become.

Do not believe the official lies from the government or the RCMP. Most of the "violence" and "destruction of property" was more than likely carried out or incited by them in the first place. RCMP provacateur agents are always infiltrating large gatherings of Canadians and inciting violence so the RCMP can tell the media "oh look at these crazy anarchists, please support us by hunting down every person who was in the street on this day".

The government wants you to hate these protesters and rioters.
They want you to react strongly to dissent to the system.
They want you to target and rat on anyone who has a voice against the system.
They want you to support them in restricting the "violent" actions of these people, in such a way that you don't realise that it will limit your freedom too.

And if you people have a problem with rioting as a democratic reaction to a repressive system, then what do you suggest: Waving a sign around? Signing petitions? Voting?

The protests that they allow are only allowed because they are ineffective. They achieve nothing.

When a government stops representing its people, then the people must stop representing the government. In modern Canada's case, we need to stand up to both the government and economic elite.

If that didn't clarify my ideology, then let me make it clear: I don't jump into the uniform of some political label, whether it be capitalist, anarchist or communist. The conditions that need to be altered or reformed in my country to benefit the greater good can really only be realized by living it and being a position to do something about it (as opposed to following some prescribed ideology). If we, as Canadians, continue with our pro-quo lives then we will lose all ability to do anything about our political choices while suffering from even worse repression in the process.

The ability to think and act on what we believe in is freedom. The freedom that our Western governments claim we have is all lies to screw with your heads.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" -- Benjamin Franklin

This is one of the greatest political and conscious statements ever said. Those who foolishly believe that the police should hunt down all of these rioters need to realize that in doing so, you're not only biting the hook, but you're also giving up your own liberty in the process.