The Growth of Atheism and What it Means for Our Future

Originally posted by hawaii50th
You think they had it bad back then, well for one we weren't there. Today from yesterday is a big difference, the world back than was a very small place and yes they didn't have the technology that we have now. In fact if they did have what we have to day you wouldn't and neither would I be here on this forum.
You can laugh all you like and you can use all the little emotion-cons you want, but at the end of the day we will see.
There are those that are awake and than there are those that think they are awake but are really sleep walking.

This makes no sense. You want to make us believe that you are awake?

There is an accurate record of what went on during the middle ages and it makes Gitmo look like a day at Disneyland. Known by all and even perpetrated, at times, by the church itself.

Originally posted by martinkb
I am an atheist and I am proud of it. How many wars we fought over religion? How many humans have died?
How much more advanced would we be today without Dark Ages.

Without religion we can open our minds - science is the only way to understand the universe and reason why we are here.


##SNIP##

edit on Wed Jun 15 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: profanity-laced video removed

The fact you believe ere is a reason why we are means you are not an atheist...

There is no reason for being here.....

The ignorance and half asses assumptions in this thread is appalling.

I'd type more but I'm just so sick of the ignorance of some of the ATS members that I need to go somewhere else and cool down.

As some other posters have pointed out, if you choose to live your life looking at actions your fellow man would call evil, like they are not evil, you will be judged based on popular opinion. If you wish to say that you're religious and so you do terrible things or that you're an atheist and do terrible things, in the end, it doesn't matter because you will be judged. When we bring in that person's choices based on their flavor of beliefs, we are shucking the blame to something other than that person's mind.

Just because someone has a religious belief and happen to do good things (based on popular opinion) that does not make that person better because they are religious. If we break it up into atheist versus religious then the bad and good people will fall into both categories.

"Will the human race succeed or fail if it is atheist?"

Success and failure are measured completely different depending on who you talk to, so this discussion has no correct answer. The word "atheist" can mean different things to different people. We do not need to be rude to one another but to accept that there will always be opposites/differences.

I have met people that have been given everything in this life and have no real substance to them because they have not known strife. Although, they are rich and some would say that that is better than being poor. Should I be happy about bad things that have happened to me? Yes and no.

If we were all atheist would we be smarter or dumber? Both?

People will be dumb by someone's standard and smart by another's. There is no end to the discussion of opposites. Do we produce better offspring with genetic diversity? Yes. Do we need opposites? Yes. Should we ever stop having these debates? That's debatable.

The most beautiful thing about this thread is that we can discuss this freely.

AYE

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Doublemint

 

Yes, the government is only spending a TINY majority of what's invested in science. The thing is, at the same time, it regulates in what private companies (as well as the government) can invest...or what they can research.

So lets look at stem cell research for example: Check out which politicians are voting against it, the very thing that could save the lives of millions. It's mostly rightwing Christian politicians, and they use god as an excuse.



Or look at the pope...he's against condoms, and tells millions of people in Africa (where AIDS is rampant) not to use them. To me, that's murder!

The politicians should be voting as for the majority of their section of the population that they are representing, so if the people do not want it then the politician should vote against it and yes the politicians reason would be the same as the people he is representing. Now if the politician is not representing the people then the poltician has done something wrong.

Or maybe you could try buying out the politicians but i geuss sceince doesn't have enough money to do this.

Go to another country that will allow you to do as you please very simple solution.


Who cares what the pope says do you think the people in Africa care? If aids was that bad sounds like it would just be easier to not have sex. Why do you get so upset about one mans opion?

Originally posted by Doublemint Why do you get so upset about one mans opion?

This one person is VERY influential. He's a powerful leader in a VERY large cult.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Less and less believe in God, and moral decay is ever higher, funny how it's going hand in hand.

Well, the middle ages were arguably the time when things at their worst. Almost no scientific advancements, wars, public executions, 2 class system with royalty treating the rest like crap, disease...but guess what, a higher % of people believed in god back then. Funny how it's going hand in hand

edit on 17-6-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

The political institution known as the Roman Catholic Church had made it illegal in many parts of Europe to own or read a bible, hence the moral code dictated within was not generally known. The moral code was given by TPTB of the time, who also happened to be the same political institution, priests had to read the bible and give the rules to the people verbally and oddly maintaining power in the hands of that institution.

Its hard for your average person to ask 'where in the New Testament does Jesus say its okay to burn people for being a witch? when 1) you cant read and 2) you have never read the bible if you could.

I would stick to American History for examples if you don't know European History. Your statement is an example of how TPTB today are using your ignorance to control you and have you revert to atheism. Its similar to atheists making epistemic statements about morality but not providing an ontological premise for ethics. Pure ignorance.

Ask yourself how you came to your current state of atheism? I'm certain if you tell yourself the truth, it was because the TV told you so, maybe if your a bit of an academic it was the discovery channel. I'm certain you don't understand complexities of Genetics, Biology, Natural and Artificial Selection, Radio Carbon Dating, Cosmology and have never even heard of the alternative explanations or even the assumptions made in these sciences. I have a masters in biochemistry and i don't know, how could people who have not delved into the details know? I do however know about the arbitrary assumptions made in huge areas of these fields, which cast a huge amount of doubt for me.

Simply put, theories, based on literally hundreds of assumptions should not be taught and presented as fact. If they are not proven sciences repeatable and observable, they should not be taught as mandatory education rather they should be taught as electives and presented that way at an age whereby individuals are able to process and critique, Instead six year old children are taught by authority figures who are simply reading from a book that the universe is 16 billion years old and appeared out of nowhere, they have no purpose for being here and everything i just a random bunch of events.

Takes a lot of faith to believe that you are a result of chance because the TV and your school teacher read it to you from 'some book' when you where a kid.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by Doublemint Why do you get so upset about one mans opion?

This one person is VERY influential. He's a powerful leader in a VERY large cult.

Can you show me these people he is influencing?

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Wanders

..
The problem is, a lot of religious people use their belief as an excuse to affect other's people's lives. And that MUST NOT happen as long as those beliefs aren't based on rationality and logic.

I agree to a degree. If you think of it like this.

You see your children running on the highway. You tell at them 'do not play on the highway, its dangerous'. fair enough right

Next you see your neighbors children running on the highway. Do you have the right to tell them not to play on the highway?

Its a moral dilemma for many religious people because they see danger that the children do not see. But they are somebody else children who may feel that kids are fine playing on the highway. They may even think that its not a highway, maybe its just a sidewalk for them, maybe they just dont care about their children, or maybe the children should be allowed to make up their own decision as they can always get off the highway if a car is coming. This is how some religious folks feel about things. Of course you can always look at it the way it has been done in the past.

In order to control somebody, ill make them guilty for acting on their natural urges and demand they obey me or they will burn in hell.

I would submit that people on this forum who advocate religion are less likely power mad and more caring. I would also contend that individuals who are only interested in control and manipulation are atheists and do not believe they will be judged for their sins ie, making up lies or quoting sections of the old testament of the bible that are clearly made redundant in the new testament.

To give you an example: stem cell research

This field of science could cure MILLIONS suffering from various birth defects, AIDS, cancer, and a ton of other diseases...yet research is as good as forbidden because the religious right claims "god doesn't want that".

I cant say for a fact but i believe currently this is an issue relating to money and a definition of human life in an embryo.

Its cheaper to use a human embryo than to use adult stem cells i think. I think that a lot more factors than religion come into play here, but i concede your point to a degree.

...
and they still refuse to acknowledge it just because of a 2,000 year old book that clearly isn't based on facts, and in certain cases demonstrably wrong. And hell, even then I'd allow them to believe whatever they want, unicorns, spaghetti monster, Allah, whatever...but they have WAY too much influence on the rational/logical citizens.

The new testament is 2000 years old. The old testament is much older, (The Torah for example, the first few books in the old testament is at least 3300 years old), the book that predicts Jesus first coming (Isaiah) has been dated at around 700 BC, etc.

I'd go as far as demanding people against stem cell research and condoms should be put to death with the very same people they condemn to death by stopping scientific progress...

edit on 17-6-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

If TPTB wanted the surfs to have a science because it would make things easier for them, they'd have it, religion or no religion. You certainly like to make religion a fall guy for the old world order/new world order dont you!

Originally posted by Gravity215 If they are not proven sciences repeatable and observable, they should not be taught as mandatory education rather they should be taught as electives and presented that way at an age whereby individuals are able to process and critique, Instead six year old children are taught by authority figures who are simply reading from a book

Is this supposed to be an argument for or against religion?

Originally posted by Gravity215 TV and your school teacher read it to you from 'some book' when you where a kid.

So, how did these children get sold a god concept?

Originally posted by Doublemint

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by Doublemint Why do you get so upset about one mans opion?

This one person is VERY influential. He's a powerful leader in a VERY large cult.

Can you show me these people he is influencing?

No, I don't have the power to go out and find these people and present them to you. Are you saying the Pope is far less influential these days? I don't know. I know it's as dangerous as ignoring the government, but I don't have the stomach to keep up with religious leaders. I do pick my battles with life being short.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by Doublemint

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by Doublemint Why do you get so upset about one mans opion?

This one person is VERY influential. He's a powerful leader in a VERY large cult.

Can you show me these people he is influencing?

No, I don't have the power to go out and find these people and present them to you. Are you saying the Pope is far less influential these days? I don't know. I know it's as dangerous as ignoring the government, but I don't have the stomach to keep up with religious leaders. I do pick my battles with life being short.

No, I don't follow the pope either, but I have never met anyone that thought he was important. So I was just wondering if you had met anyone that thought he was important. If neither of us know whether the pope is important or not, then we are just dealing with posibilities which are not facts.

Although I do not follow any religion, believe in any deity, or subscribe to any one given group of religious rules, I am one that truly is in awe of those who have some sort of true faith. I think it's a wonderful thing.
That said, I have yet to find an organized religion (not the same thing) that has any truth, or correct moral compass.

The 'rise' of atheism is based only on the social acceptance of those who would question the authoritarian rule of the 'established' religions. That means that socially, the world is a somewhat more tolerant place. Live and let live being the ideal. However, this same acceptance has given rise to a growing number of fanatics on all sides of religion. We are constantly barraged by the vitriol, hatred, and outright lies of the religious extreme. This is true of all the established religions (possibly with the exception of Judaism, who seem to value personal spiritual responsibility. BTW: Buddhism always did, but that's a philosophy rather that a deity driven religion). The religious people we see in the media today are the absolute fringe abominations. They've always been there, but we have instant coverage these days, so the wingnuts get the press. These idiots hold back progress for mankind. They invent things that were never present in any of their holy books or teachings. They call it "interpretation." They mostly use their position for political gain. Again, this isn't new. It has always been the way of the religions. Control, power and wealth. Spirituality becomes a vehicle by which the are gained, rather than the driving factor.

The religions are a scourge on the future of our planet. They don't pay taxes, but expect (and heavily lobby for) political change based on their beliefs. This is directly a violation of the separation of church and state. If they want a say, they can all pay taxes. If I were to create a new religion, it would not be deemed tax exempt because it is not recognized by the state. This is directly a violation of the separation of church and state. The religions should be a personal thing. If you choose to adhere to any given religion, you are free to do so. That freedom also should be afforded to those who don't. Faith based 'initiatives' are a violation of personal freedom. All US tax payers pay a premium to cover the tax exempt status of the "recognized" religions. This - to all those who do not adhere to any religion - is taxation without representation. If you disagree, you owe me about $900 per year. Thank you for your "donation."

Taxation without representation created the USA via armed conflict. As I mentioned above, your faith is very special to me - as much as it is to you. However, it is not my responsibility to fund it; and I am, as a taxpayer, funding it. The USA is not a Christian nation (please refer to the Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams, who knew slightly more than you do about the thoughts of the 'founding fathers'). It is not Jewish, Muslim, or any other religion either. It is a country of free people. If many of those people forego the shackles of organized religion, they have the freedom to do so. Your opinion, whether it is faith based or not, matters not a jot to this fact.

The rise of atheism, agnosticism, and outright indigence to religion comes from the spread of information. We question what is not proven. We seek truth. We do not find it within the dogma of the established religions.
You can scream all day long how the world is only 4000 years old, but there's an awful lot of contradictory information with data to support it. If your data is Bronze-age stories told in a book from the third or fourth centuries, you really aren't based in reality. You're not convincing. The modern world is wholly based on people being 'convinced.' Consequently, the churches are losing ground.

As I mentioned above, I have no personal problem with your faith - if you have it. Please don't have a problem with my reservations of its authenticity.

Our future? Tax the religions. All of them. You'll be amazed at what happens to the economy. That's a good start.

reply to post by MrXYZ

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_ Oh btw. Almost forgot, and if you are close minded please don't go any further. A great deal of humans clinging to atheism are demons. Energies who are stopping this planet from ascend. I think you need a time machine...because I wouldn't expect such a statement from anyone but someone living in the middle ages. Demons...really?

Nihilism and atheism are kissing cousins. Humans are not just empty meat pulps, neither is technology going to replace our ability to make moral decisions, we are spiritual beings.
I think your just scared because you craft your identity around a fake ideology yet your afraid to let go and EVOLVE spiritually. You defend evolution with tooth and nail, and you fail to see evolution right in front of you eyes, or pretend you don't.
God is part of humanity, it is symbiotic with us, there is no point in trying to separate us from the divine characteristics of the Universe and you just want the end of responsibility and give up your intellect.
Our consciousness will keep expanding and expanding until eventually it will manifest itself.

The planet will achieve it's divine purpose if you like or not, and those who fail to see the true nature of reality will be left behind. No one has to do anything, but natural selection will. My Truth is stronger. You choose goodness or you don't.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by hawaii50th
You think they had it bad back then, well for one we weren't there. Today from yesterday is a big difference, the world back than was a very small place and yes they didn't have the technology that we have now. In fact if they did have what we have to day you wouldn't and neither would I be here on this forum.
You can laugh all you like and you can use all the little emotion-cons you want, but at the end of the day we will see.
There are those that are awake and than there are those that think they are awake but are really sleep walking.

This makes no sense. You want to make us believe that you are awake?

There is an accurate record of what went on during the middle ages and it makes Gitmo look like a day at Disneyland. Known by all and even perpetrated, at times, by the church itself.

edit on 17-6-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

How do you know if the historical record of the middle ages is accurate? And, have you been to Gitmo? What I find funny is, according to you and others, the accuracy of events in history books are considered to be true and accurate while anything written in the bible are out of date or just written by men. Yet, historical accounts of other history that do not pertain to biblical history are valid. I would have to say that there is a type of prejudice here.
So let the chips fall where they will and if people think that atheism is the way to go than let it be their choice to make. But really is it a free choice, or is it just being part of the matrix and never realizing it.
One thing that is a for sure bet is the more atheist there is the more moral decay there will be.
All of this has been foretold in the ancient writings that are being rejected today.

reply to post by Badgered1

No matter what organized religion or group you look into you will find error or something wrong. After all it's made up of people and we are not perfect although some like to think they are.
All one can have is trust, and faith in God and prayer. If we all operated with the mindset of, I am an individual and therefore am responsible for my own actions and words. I will allow God to work in me to change me for the better for myself and others. I will stop judging, and become responsible for me and through prayer will seek perfection through Christ.
Of course we will not ever reach perfection until we pass on, provided we have followed God throughout our lives.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
How do you know if the historical record of the middle ages is accurate? And, have you been to Gitmo? What I find funny is, according to you and others, the accuracy of events in history books are considered to be true and accurate while anything written in the bible are out of date or just written by men. Yet, historical accounts of other history that do not pertain to biblical history are valid. I would have to say that there is a type of prejudice here.
So let the chips fall where they will and if people think that atheism is the way to go than let it be their choice to make. But really is it a free choice, or is it just being part of the matrix and never realizing it.
One thing that is a for sure bet is the more atheist there is the more moral decay there will be.
All of this has been foretold in the ancient writings that are being rejected today.

Accounts of hundreds of years ago can be just as accurate if not more so than the bible, which is thousands of years old, given the state of the records kept and the fact that the languages are better understood.

Having the choice and not being ostracized for choosing one way or the other is all anyone asks for.

Is believing in god a free choice or is it part of being part of the matrix and never realizing it? See, works in reverse.

You still have not proven that an increase in atheism results in an increase of moral decay. If you do find some examples could you please only post actual moral decay and not just people dancing, drinking and whoring because that has been going on for a long time, some even with the lords blessing.

ETA: I don't think GITMO has the torturing devices used (and that still exisit as evidence) that they had during the middle ages.

I agree in the sense of organized religion, if that wasn't here, the world may be in a better state, but I also feel the need people should experience meditation and spirituality which in my opinion, religion has no part of these days.

Originally posted by Doublemint
Can you show me these people he is influencing?

Living in latin america I have known many families who have more children than they can comfortably raise. When they are asked why they don't use birth control/family planning they will tell you that it is a sin. The church makes it quite clear that god will send you the children that he wants you to have. To interfere with this is to go against gods will. This is the catholic church under command of the pope of course.

An excellent theory and explination, I agree completey, society is becoming more and more forgiving and free-thinking, and with this comes a more free and diverse population.

But also, more free thinking leads to more hatred and tension between communities, eventually this hatred could cause massive hatred and possibly worse case scenario, a small scale civil war.

People can think however they want, but when these diffrent communities discuss the things they hold dear. The closer we come to self-destruction.