The Growth of Atheism and What it Means for Our Future

reply to post by _SilentAssassin_


All this talk of atheists being sub human demons is starting to scare me a little. You're not planning anything, are you?

I don't understand the hate in this topic. On either side.

The religious aren't mentally ill or unintelligent.
Atheists aren't morally bankrupt or evil.

Can we not be realistic and tolerant when it comes to this subject? It seems like very few, on either side, are capable of seeing someone elses point of view.

I'm a Christian. I believe in Christ. I believe that God exists. As long as I don't try to impose that on someone else... why would anyone mind? I certainly don't mind anyone being an atheist, a Muslim, etc.

I think the difference between being tolerant and being intolerant is the realization that I MIGHT BE WRONG.

Atheists, you might be wrong. Christians, we might be wrong. We may ALL be wrong. Perhaps the truth is something that no human mind has yet been able to figure out.

I don't think our spiritual views have to separate us like this - provided everyone, on BOTH sides, stop being so arrogantly hateful.

Originally posted by Wanders
I don't understand the hate in this topic. On either side.
...
I don't think our spiritual views have to separate us like this - provided everyone, on BOTH sides, stop being so arrogantly hateful.

reply to post by nicolee123nd

reply to post by Wanders

I'm a Christian. I believe in Christ. I believe that God exists. As long as I don't try to impose that on someone else... why would anyone mind? I certainly don't mind anyone being an atheist, a Muslim, etc.

That's a great attitude to have

The problem is, a lot of religious people use their belief as an excuse to affect other's people's lives. And that MUST NOT happen as long as those beliefs aren't based on rationality and logic.

To give you an example: stem cell research

This field of science could cure MILLIONS suffering from various birth defects, AIDS, cancer, and a ton of other diseases...yet research is as good as forbidden because the religious right claims "god doesn't want that". As long as they don't provide proof of god's existence, they should stick to quietly following their belief, and letting the rest get on with our lives and general progress as a species.

I have friends with cancer, and every single one of their doctors says stem cell research would eventually allow them to be cured...but instead, they are being condemned to death just because of of a bunch of irrational lunatics (sry, no nice way of saying that). It's really hard for me to stay nice when it comes to this, I have to watch friends die because of a bunch of assholes trying to impose their worldview on everyone else. If they don't condone that research, no one is forcing them (or anyone else) to benefit from it...but condemning others to die is WRONG.

That's why I get annoyed at clearly uneducated people doubting evolution, or using god as an excuse to stop scientific progress that could save millions. If they don't know, that's fine...and I really have no issue with anyone who for example doesn't know about how evolution really works, I'll happily explain it to them. What I DO have a problem with is if you explain it to them, present FACTS, and objective evidence...and they still refuse to acknowledge it just because of a 2,000 year old book that clearly isn't based on facts, and in certain cases demonstrably wrong. And hell, even then I'd allow them to believe whatever they want, unicorns, spaghetti monster, Allah, whatever...but they have WAY too much influence on the rational/logical citizens.

I'd go as far as demanding people against stem cell research and condoms should be put to death with the very same people they condemn to death by stopping scientific progress...

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
Oh btw. Almost forgot, and if you are close minded please don't go any further.
A great deal of humans clinging to atheism are demons. Energies who are stopping this planet from ascend.

I think you need a time machine...because I wouldn't expect such a statement from anyone but someone living in the middle ages. Demons...really?

Originally posted by AYEforeignEYE
reply to post by daskakik

 

I just replied to the post above yours in the same fashion. It's hard to not have a long conversation when you say "I don't believe in a 'god' in the traditional sense."

This makes sense. That is why I choose to say I'm an atheist and it's the truth. I think that at least 90% of the time that someone mentions god they are talking about the Judeo/Christian god and that is one of the versions of god that I don't believe in.

That avoids the need to redefine "god". I choose to just go with their definition and tell them I don't believe it.

It's interesting to read that you've had a spiritual awakening at one point. I would like to know more about it if you wouldn't mind telling that story.

Actually I have had paranormal experiences throughout my life. Lucid dreaming, OBEs, dreams that would come to pass and others.

I was raised catholic but not all that active. When I was about ten I started reading the bible and I found myself forcing my experiences into the biblical framework. The more I read the harder it became for me to dismiss the contradictions and also I realized that my answers to what I had experienced was never really explained.

Being a good christian I realized it must be a test of my faith so with fortified faith I prayed and asked for the truth that would help me realize that I was seeing these contradictions because I was looking at things the wrong way. You'd think god would cut a kid a break but it never happened.

My faith started fading until one day when I was about sixteen I had an OBE and I rose into the skies. I came to see an angel (only way I can describe it) that I had come upon before and that had been the main reason for diving into the bible head first years before. I remembered it glowed and I could feel this glow and it made me feel awe and love. It made me feel safe.

When I encountered it this second time the initial reaction was the same but then something inside of me changed and while I could still feel the glow it was different. I realized that it was indifferent towards me. Then it hit me, there is no all seeing, all powerful being watching over us. That is how I had interpreted my first encounter with "one of his angels" because that was the only way I had been taught to interpret it.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by kykweer
Then why not just say the military is going to war?

Tptb refers to a nameless, mysterious group that manipulates things from the shadows

Troops, military, armed forces are used interchangeably. So is government, TPTB, the man, the institution.

Do you correct people who use the term "our troops overseas" and tell them that they should say "our military overseas" instead?

I was first introduced to the term when it was used by Public Enemy in their song Fight the Power. To me it was a way to describe those who oppress a group of people. The reason it's vague is because it can be used to describe different PTB in different situations. TPTB that existed in South Africa during apartheid are not the same PTB that exist in Chavez's Venezuela.

I agree that often it is used to describe Illuminati, NWO, Bilderberg, Rothschild type groups and while it's use in that way is correct, I'm just pointing out that it can also be used in other ways.

edit on 17-6-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

Its just to ME it refers to a faceless entity, I have already submited and said that its open to your own personal opinion, but I don't have to change my mind, I don't have to think like you. To ME if your describing troops, mayor or your boss as tptb its you prerogative, but to ME they already have a brand. So I don't have to say the answr is x when I know that its 6.

I would like to say I love the OP for this. I think the freedom to express religion or lack of religion is a good movement. I actually was raised by and athiest and a catholic/protestant (Long story to that one). I am an atheist always have been my religion is science, I believe in gravity and equality to all, and think jeasus was a man who walked on water... It was just ice... I'm not evil I'm a damn good person.

How we choose to celebrate and explain our surroundings is a personal choice I plan on raising my children how I was raised, atheist. An atheist can choose religion or no religion when they have experienced the world. I have not see god or acts of god, I have seen good people die needlessly while evil ones live, I have seen good people turn bad, and I have come to the conclusion if there was a god he has abandoned us. (I actually have a pretty good view on life as a whole I have a negative outlook the world is messed up)

God is dead, gone, never existed its all the same in the end, we can only save our selves by putting down the book and actually doing something. You can recite all the bible quotes you want but how does that solve anything?

again just my views as an atheist, if you have seen god talked to god felt gods presence good on you.

reply to post by kykweer


Fine but you asked why not call them "this" instead of "that" then go on to say:

Tptb refers to a nameless, mysterious group that manipulates things from the shadows

I just answered your question. If you didn't want an answer than why ask the question.

Seems to me your forcing your definition and implying that my use is wrong when in fact both YOUR faceless entity and MY known oppressor can be correct in different contexts.

reply to post by daskakik


I don't care what context you use it in. I'm 120% fine with it like seriously, go for it.

I just wish to stop this seriously mind numbingly boring debate as a debate about "who's dad is stronger" would have been more exciting. Infact ill concede. You win. Tptb can refer to anyone even to the mailman.

Tc

Originally posted by kykweer
reply to post by daskakik

 

I don't care what context you use it in. I'm 120% fine with it like seriously, go for it.

I just wish to stop this seriously mind numbingly boring debate as a debate about "who's dad is stronger" would have been more exciting. Infact ill concede. You win. Tptb can refer to anyone even to the mailman.

Tc

You keep conceding while still infering that to use it that way is incorrect. If you had brought something other than "because I say so" it would have at least been on par with "who's dad is stronger".

I actually erased "Please don't reply if it's going to be a "I agree but not really" post". Should have left it in there.

No harm done. Just a little wasted time.

Originally posted by 15FORreal
reply to post by Doublemint

 

Back in the good old days..when a scientist went against the churches they were killed..when they said the earth wasnt flat, dead; when they said the earth wasnt the center and we were actually the ones going around everthing...dead

what I qouted you saying was that religion was presntly holding sceince back.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Can you show me exactlly how religion is stopping stem cell research?

Originally posted by Doublemint
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Can you show me exactlly how religion is stopping stem cell research?

Just follow which politicians end up voting against stuff like that...and the reasons they bring forward and you'll have the answer to your questions

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Doublemint
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Can you show me exactlly how religion is stopping stem cell research?

Just follow which politicians end up voting against stuff like that...and the reasons they bring forward and you'll have the answer to your questions

So, which governments are you talking about, because I am sure there are governments that will allow stem cell resreach. Also why is sceince going to governments to get money? The government represents all of the peope in the U.S. so if this is the country you are talking about it would make since people vote against you.

anyways you already said this a few pages back.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Doublemint

 

Religious people get in the way of science becuase science goes to the government to get money and the government is there to represent all people the religious and the scientific people. Solution to this find some one better to finance you.

I hope you realize the government isn't the main donor of scientific projects...in fact, it's a TINY minority.

So, if its not the government stopping you then show me who these people are.

reply to post by nicolee123nd

Less and less believe in God, and moral decay is ever higher, funny how it's going hand in hand.
If there were no religion to think that there would be no war, or prejudice is to be very naive, and another is there would have never been a free society either. Your forgetting about the esoteric world and what their agenda is and what they stand for.

reply to post by Doublemint


Yes, the government is only spending a TINY majority of what's invested in science. The thing is, at the same time, it regulates in what private companies (as well as the government) can invest...or what they can research.

So lets look at stem cell research for example: Check out which politicians are voting against it, the very thing that could save the lives of millions. It's mostly rightwing Christian politicians, and they use god as an excuse.

Peter Griffin said it best:



Or look at the pope...he's against condoms, and tells millions of people in Africa (where AIDS is rampant) not to use them. To me, that's murder!

reply to post by hawaii50th

Less and less believe in God, and moral decay is ever higher, funny how it's going hand in hand.

Well, the middle ages were arguably the time when things at their worst. Almost no scientific advancements, wars, public executions, 2 class system with royalty treating the rest like crap, disease...but guess what, a higher % of people believed in god back then. Funny how it's going hand in hand

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Less and less believe in God, and moral decay is ever higher, funny how it's going hand in hand.

Well, the middle ages were arguably the time when things at their worst. Almost no scientific advancements, wars, public executions, 2 class system with royalty treating the rest like crap, disease...but guess what, a higher % of people believed in god back then. Funny how it's going hand in hand

edit on 17-6-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

You think they had it bad back then, well for one we weren't there. Today from yesterday is a big difference, the world back than was a very small place and yes they didn't have the technology that we have now. In fact if they did have what we have to day you wouldn't and neither would I be here on this forum.
You can laugh all you like and you can use all the little emotion-cons you want, but at the end of the day we will see.
There are those that are awake and than there are those that think they are awake but are really sleep walking.