Unemployed about to be crushed even more

reply to post by Amaterasu


They are still on demo stage. And they are all specialized to one function. Sure there are harvesting robots. But are there planting robots? Or weeding robots? Or robots that will know if a current harvest is a failure? And the best ones come from Japan only. Which is in danger of tanking due to their debt.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

My first response is.......GOOD!

These people will be more motivated to find work! I have had at least 2 people ask me to fire them, so they could collect unemployment.

Um... I'll have You know that there are many, many, many people VERY motivated. But One can have all the motivation in the world and if the opportunity is not there...it's not worth squat. Believe Me, I know. I have been looking for work for five years now. And I am about as motivated as can be. (And I have NEVER asked to be fired for ANY reason! LOL!)

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

They are still on demo stage. And they are all specialized to one function. Sure there are harvesting robots. But are there planting robots? Or weeding robots? Or robots that will know if a current harvest is a failure? And the best ones come from Japan only. Which is in danger of tanking due to their debt.

Well, of course this does not include black ops...

Here is a bunch of robots that have had two and three years to be developed further:









And also understand that all these "talents" can be pulled together. And understand that We are advancing daily and what You see from 3 years ago is a shadow of where They have gone since.

Filing for unemployment is a form of insurance extortion? Only if you're drawing unemployment payments when you could be clearly working but is opting to not work. However that don't describe most folks receiving them. The average person who has worked most of their adult lives don't thrill at the idea of applying for unemployment but they do so to keep afloat until they land another job. Even then the money they're paid is only a percentage of what they were earning weekly prior to losing their jobs. Also my understanding is you have to pay taxes on that money which is eating up a already meager payment to sustain themselves, few people are on easy street drawing unemployment. If anything many of them are living from pillar to post.

reply to post by Amaterasu


A lot of people are also still waiting for that flying car and space hotel. But it will never work since humans are mammals and will always take more than what they need. Pray tell, in your society, what would you do if 700 million decides they want to order wine. And they will want the best from France. And the robots can only produce 100 million bottles?

Also you're gonna need a LOT of robots. Which would entail a LOT of mining. Which would need a LOT of money. Think 60 million cars are year is too much? How about 7 billion robots? Since I'd reckon there would need to be at least 1 robot per human mammal.

reply to post by hadriana


Should have moved to France, then. Where they can't drop you like you're nothing.

Meanwhile, tax cut extensions for the rich (that was the negotiating point on this extension) run for another year.

Anyone who is unemployed or was at risk of losing their job who voted Republican, or who didn't vote in the 2010 elections, got what their laziness or ignorance gave them.

Democrats were talking about extending unemployment before the election, if all the unemployed adults had of voted Democrat (there's over 10 million unemployed) then Democrats would have won in a landslide and the extension of benefits would have been passed without problem.

You only have yourself to blame.

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by hadriana

 

Should have moved to France, then. Where they can't drop you like you're nothing.

And where you have some of the highest income taxes and sales taxes in the world to pay for all their social programs. Enjoy.

Our area must be great I got a call from a headhunter this morning offering more than what I'm making here. South west is doing great

reply to post by babybunnies


And Canadians who enjoy their healthcare better pray that the US will never have healthcare.

reply to post by jonnywhite




You should be able to make a living wage. Can you do that on minimum wage? When the middle class goes away so does this country, this world will see unrest unlike it has ever seen before. This is global in scale.




First thing first get rid of the illegals they are like cockroaches. I live among them and trust me when law enforcement is around they run and hide. This is not American. Go and take a good hard look at Mexico is this what we want our country to become?

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

A lot of people are also still waiting for that flying car and space hotel. But it will never work since humans are mammals and will always take more than what they need. Pray tell, in your society, what would you do if 700 million decides they want to order wine. And they will want the best from France. And the robots can only produce 100 million bottles?

Well, You go to the web, place Your order...and if You are lucky enough to be within the first 100 million, a bottle is sent to You. If not, You are informed that that particular item is not available. And offered the many other options. Maybe next year You will get some. I am not saying that everyOne can have all the specialty items there are. I'm saying that no One will go hungry, or eat GMO, or have no clothing, or have no home. No One will have to live in a cardboard box but will have Their choice of abodes.

And I don't follow this logic: "A lot of people are also still waiting for that flying car and space hotel. But it will never work since humans are mammals and will always take more than what they need." We won't have the hidden tech because Humans ALWAYS take more than They need (which is patently untrue - I go to the food pantry and sometimes I am told to take all I want of something; I do not take everything; I take what I will use)? That makes no sense.

The tech is there, but it is hidden because along with it comes abundant energy They cannot meter and thereby charge for. Adding this energy would free Humans on this planet from control by Others. And They surely don't want THAT.

Also you're gonna need a LOT of robots. Which would entail a LOT of mining. Which would need a LOT of money. Think 60 million cars are year is too much? How about 7 billion robots? Since I'd reckon there would need to be at least 1 robot per human mammal.

LOL! Yes, a lot of robots...but many are mostly plastic (which can be made from hemp or other biological oil just as well as petro-oil), and We have the money AND the metal - with profit no longer the goal for war, We can spend the money and use the metal We presently pour into war. And, once the energy really starts flowing, the cost of energy will be stripped all down the line - and since money is just a tool to account for meaningful energy expended, the cost of things will drop and eventually dissipate entirely, so money is not a problem, anyway.

Think of all the tanks that can be recycled!

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

There's a problem. The robots. We need Kanemitsu level robots. Current robots are not even OCP level. And the robots have to be able to make decisions like what to do best when a fruit tree becomes infected with a new type of fungi. Dr. Soong is long way to being born.

[smile]

I think there are already some amazing robots out there. And I anticipate the development to go far faster than You might think. Here are some promising ones:

Oh, I could go on and on.

To he who is given much, much is expected. So lets say in your hypothetical society that robots take up manual labor. What for the low-skilled workers then? Are they to sit blissfully in their fancy apartments, living off the fruits of robotic labor? The error I see here is that you're not realizing what money is. Money is itself paper, or a number on a card. But on a deeper level, money represents work and/or value. So to gain money you must work or increase your value. You cannot remove the fundamental thing that is money unless you can remove work and value from society. My question is: How do you propose that people no longer need value, no longer need work? I can't imagine a society where value or work are meaningless. Lastly, those low-skilled workers that're displaced by the robotic laborers will be put into schools or they will simply idle on the streets subsisting on donations from the generous. Alternatively, they could die. Nothing is free in this universe, not even robotic labor. To make ones due one must improve oneself. So to school they will go, and in debt they shall be until they themselves find work or some other method to increase their value. If they fail, the results are predictable.

There's a bean counter in the sky and you can't trick him. Intellego????

You know, no matter what opinion a person has, it always boils down to a couple flawed assumptions that're on a basic level. This whole argument in this thread that the big man at the top has his boot on the little people's throats is nothing more than a very flawed assumption that when broken up into its component elements we could clearly see the error. Ultimately, these flawed assumptions become the excuses that people use to continue their life choices. And because they do not understand the reasoning behind their flawed assumptions, they presume they're not themselves in error. Thus, they want the blame to be shared or put on someone else. And this is really where the problems start and proliferate like a hungry cancer.

Look at this way, cancer is just the little man that wanted a chance to live, but at who's expense? Consequences. They're real. Does cancer know that? Do you know that? No? Yes? I realize talking this way isn't doing a bit of good, but it's therapeutic to get these things out there.

You want to be happy? Then improve yourself. Prove yourself. Stay away from BS.

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

A lot of people are also still waiting for that flying car and space hotel. But it will never work since humans are mammals and will always take more than what they need. Pray tell, in your society, what would you do if 700 million decides they want to order wine. And they will want the best from France. And the robots can only produce 100 million bottles?

Also you're gonna need a LOT of robots. Which would entail a LOT of mining. Which would need a LOT of money. Think 60 million cars are year is too much? How about 7 billion robots? Since I'd reckon there would need to be at least 1 robot per human mammal.

edit on 6/10/2011 by eldard because: (no reason given)

Who needs numbers when belief is so much more satisfying?

Life is finite. Stupidity is infinite. This answers the question how we can die prematurely.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
To he who is given much, much is expected. So lets say in your hypothetical society that robots take up manual labor. What for the low-skilled workers then? Are they to sit blissfully in their fancy apartments, living off the fruits of robotic labor?

Or follow Their bliss... Teach children or play a musical instrument or play hockey or picnic with loved ones or find a cure or plumb the depths of quantum physics or climb Mt. Everest or learn to can food or garden or build fine wood furniture or paint pictures or study history or travel the world (solar system, galaxy...) or scuba dive or hike up to Angel's Landing or throw parties or play D&D or do what the kids want to do or read a book or write a book or .....

The error I see here is that you're not realizing what money is. Money is itself paper, or a number on a card. But on a deeper level, money represents work and/or value.

On the contrary, I am fully aware of the deep and intimate relationship money has with energy. When the first farmer came along, the seeds were free. The soil was free. The sun was free. The rain was free. What was not free was the energy the farmer put into creating a farm. Because this energy fell mostly to the farmer to produce, the farmer wanted something in return for the food created - thought the food was free, the energy was not.

We use the value We have assigned to money to indicate how much We value any given thing, but the base representation that money is is meaningful energy expended. Money was developed as a tool to account for this useful energy spent. Now, add an abundance of what money represents and money becomes moot.

And that is what will happen if We extract the energy from the plenum. It is abundant, available anywhere, and anytime. Initially, things will not change much, but as the cost of energy is removed from things all down the line, eventually We reach a point where it's all free. Meanwhile, the standard of living begins to increase and eventually everyOne is living as today's elite but that no One is worried about money.

So to gain money you must work or increase your value. You cannot remove the fundamental thing that is money unless you can remove work and value from society.

No need to remove value - though what is valued will shift. The work of robots will be appreciated and accepted, but not highly valued. The personal work from the hearts of Others - those will be highly valued. Also, successes in solving problems and bringing betterment will hold value. One will be "paid" in fame, prestige, honor, gratitude, and so on. And yes, You CAN remove money. But only by adding a plethora of energy.

My question is: How do you propose that people no longer need value, no longer need work?

As I illustrated above, value will not be eliminated. And no One needs a job They hate (or even are merely bored with). Except to get what They need to maintain Their lives. Since what is necessary to maintain lives is handled, the "work" that will be chosen will be the personal bliss of Each. Some people are in bliss solving problems. Some are in bliss programming robots. Some are in bliss building robots. Many are in bliss working in a group with a common goal. People can choose what They do, and when They feel like doing it.

In fact, look at the very rich. Are They handling the lack of a need to punch a clock and endure hours of boredom or agony? If They are capable of finding meaningful things to do in Their lives, why not the rest of Us?

I can't imagine a society where value or work are meaningless

Nor can I. I CAN, however imagine a world where value is placed on Human efforts and the currency is a social one as opposed to a monetary one.

Lastly, those low-skilled workers that're displaced by the robotic laborers will be put into schools or they will simply idle on the streets subsisting on donations from the generous.

Not likely in abundance. As it stands now, They have no options. Too poor to afford all the things They would love to be doing. In abundance, there is no obstacle to these. Maybe they want to learn to Flamenco dance. Except... It costs money. In abundance, They could go to the web and look for Flamenco dance instructors (all of whom love to teach this dance to others). One might check out ratings. And then enquire about time available.

One might have to check a couple or four to find one not booked for a while. And, finding an available Flamenco dance instructor, One can have lessons and pay the instructor back with a rating on the web. "Five stars! FD Teacher is the BEST! Really took time with Me!" or, if it was not so great an experience, "One and a half stars. FD Teacher spent most of the time on the holo chatting up friends..." That sort of thing.

Alternatively, they could die.

Or follow Their bliss.

Nothing is free in this universe, not even robotic labor.

In the scarcity paradigm, that is true. Shift over to the abundance paradigm and that is incorrect. See above.

To make ones due one must improve oneself.

Yes, and in abundance EVERYONE has the opportunity to do so (really very few do today in scarcity), not just the ones who can afford schooling. Teachers will be highly valued (speaking of value...) and may often receive gifts of appreciation for Their choice to teach.

So to school they will go, and in debt they shall be until they themselves find work or some other method to increase their value. If they fail, the results are predictable.

Um... Yes, to school They will go! (Well, those that want to, that is.) But the only "debt" will be social. If They fail to learn, the results are NOT predictable using scarcity paradigm expectations. They will merely go camping or spend time with Their families or go skiing or race motorcycles or offer to help at an archeological site or....

There's a bean counter in the sky and you can't trick him. Intellego????

I'm not sure of Your reference on this... But I don't believe there is any "bean counter" except in scarcity.

You know, no matter what opinion a person has, it always boils down to a couple flawed assumptions that're on a basic level.

Well, I don't believe I have made any flawed assumptions. You have relative to what I have been offering, leading You to believe if is Mine which are flawed.

This whole argument in this thread that the big man at the top has his boot on the little people's throats is nothing more than a very flawed assumption that when broken up into its component elements we could clearly see the error.

Not following this. The "big man at the top" is working on it - keeping power over Humans intact, but what is it that is being "broken up?" What components are We talking about? What error are We looking for?

Ultimately, these flawed assumptions become the excuses that people use to continue their life choices. And because they do not understand the reasoning behind their flawed assumptions, they presume they're not themselves in error. Thus, they want the blame to be shared or put on someone else. And this is really where the problems start and proliferate like a hungry cancer.

Still confused... What life choices? Why are they bad, these choices? What error? Blame for what? What problem?

Look at this way, cancer is just the little man that wanted a chance to live, but at who's expense? Consequences. They're real. Does cancer know that? Do you know that? No? Yes? I realize talking this way isn't doing a bit of good, but it's therapeutic to get these things out there.

The average Human You are equating with cancer!?! I'm quite baffled. The average Human is poor, hungry, and enslaved. The average Human seeks better but most often has ZERO opportunities. At whose expense!?! In abundance, the answer is: no Ones.

want to be happy? Then improve yourself. Prove yourself. Stay away from BS.

Would over 50 years of study on a very wide rage of topics count as improving Myself? Would over 15 years in banking and eager study of economics be enough to suspect I have a clue about the basic energy link with money? (Jeremy Rifkin wrote a book called "Entropy," which was widely and enthusiastically received (and in part was responsible ultimately for the whole "carbon footprint" concept. Recycling was jumpstarted by this book, published in 1980, and with no (admitted) knowledge that We had ways of extracting energy from the plenum.

When I read His work, I was pleased to see that He, too, had grasped that fundamental relationship between money and what it represents: Energy (meaningful, expended). I had independently arrived at that and having such an honored economist confirm what I had seen humbled Me.

www.foet.org...

What this Plenum? Plumbing? Wha?

I should clarify. You don't understand money because you don't understand energy. Money is value. It's work. it's something meaningful; energy. It can save lives. You remove money from your hypothetical society by having so much work and value that money loses any practicality it might have had. Any work that a single person would perform would be so infinite and easy that anybody could do it from anywhere at anytime for all of time. What's the point then? If it's so easy and everyone can do it? No purpose. The problem here is that there is NOTHING in the universe that can do this. Therefore, you do not understand money because you do not understand there's no such thing as free energy. We know of nothing that can bring about so much plenty. Now, if I'm in error then point out to me what this Plenum is. It could save millions of lives each year and solve so many other problems on planet earth. To sit on it would be criminal.

Another thing: we don't have a scarcity issue because we want it. This is just how it's. There're people who would give their lives willingly to rid this world of scarcity if they knew of a way. People fight everyday to save lives. They lose loved ones, they even lose themselves. Don't think for a moment that anyone wants it to be this way. Humans didn't do this. Conservation of energy is a law of the universe. Scarcity is a byproduct of this. We'd all change this if we could.

In fact, I was in a recent "argument" with a gentleman the other day about something related. He was telling me that increasing costs of travel and the increasing instances of violence and war and unemployment are causing people to panic and even hide away in their homes on their computers looking for a way out. He was telling me this was caused by reaganomics or some BS language he grabbed from somewhere. I was telling him people go on their computers and panic because they're stupid and unfamiliar with confronting their fears. We parted our ways agreeing to disagree but we'll see one another again because we stop by at the same place for supper.

If you need any further help just keep asking I'll be here to answer your questions.

Or just shut off your TV, isolate yourself, burn any books and continue believing in Plenum.

National unemployment is very worrisome and a big deal. Once unemployment extensions run out... it will be interesting. Someone mentioned people who were on unemployment and didn't vote D deserve the lost benefits.. I sort of agree, but there is no greater danger to a nation than a improvrished pop of significant size.
I am tired of people also talking about the great depression as a comparison... it is not.
The avg American can't just shrug off their old life and be a traveling worker like in the grapes of wrath nor can people count on their local communities to help them out... they wont. Incidently the local community was the backbone of the avg American during the dep. They would find you a place to live and eat for a days work and even would buy your foreclosed house from under the bank (see Iowa). No one trusts their neighboors like that anymore.
Arrogance and entitlement aren't coming from the poor in our society today as much as from the scared employed and rich... one grp refusing to believe this can happen to them and the other so detached they don't truly care.

I hope they channell the money they are saving into expansion of prisons, because they are going to need them.
People are NOT going to go hungry, and they will get what they need from somewhere. Your house?

Lockheed martin is closing and will loose 10,000 jobs in july 1st, also, the states will cut 18,000 jobs. plus 5,000 jobs to be cut in the airline industries this year. all happenning very shortly, so.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


What for? They're already releasing prisoners in California because of congestion.