Post here to debunk Timewave Zero theory

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by Zagari

Count 67 years before 1945, you will find the year telephone was invented...See? Every 67 years before 1945 show something huge to happen.

Except the telephone was not invented in 1878

Even Bell and Watson's famous voice transmission was made in 1876. And that was the culmination of many years of development.

The most notable event in 1878 was the founding of Ipswich Town FC

Actually not:

1878 events:

February 19 – The phonograph is patented by Thomas Edison.

This the most notable event in that year...

reply to post by Zagari


Well in that case i see your mind is made up , as is mine, you have failed to impress me with any real evidence..
game over please insert your next quarter and try again..
but you have given me a reason to further study this so i can come up with further evidence against it
im sure we will cross swords in the future. but for now i have to get on with real life
but thanks for trying.
on and using your logic, i can say time wave zero debuks itself for not understanding..
its a zen thing

reply to post by sprocket2cog


I actually created this thread because I asked some people to create one so they would be able to explain their own opinion without invading other threads.
The 2 people I asked to do this still didn't post on this thread yet.

I asked them to bring some real information to disprove the theory...

I work on this theory together with a big group of people since 2009. I found out it to be very reliable.

Timewave Zero, like many other belief systems is merely an artifact of human nature. That being to find a signal in the noise even when none exist. It's the same as reading palms or tea leaves, or even bible codes. It's also similar in many respects to visual matrixing (Pareidolia) where someone may see a face in the bark of a tree or a slice of toast. It's just humans trying to make sense out of randomness.

IRM

reply to post by Zagari


But that;s not the telephone and what's so important about the date an invention is patented?

Anyway, I say 1876 was clearly a more important year

But the fat is, something of import occurs every year - sometimes they are very significant at the time, but afterwards forgotten, sometimes their importance only becomes apparent decades later.

If you can pick and choice which events count then you can prove any correlation you like. Which is where this timewavey nonsense falls flat on its face.

(and anyway, any valid hypothesis or theory ought be falsifiable - and those promoting it should make the conditions under which it could be falsified know )

reply to post by Zagari


reliable for what?
its a human construct made to fit the data.. in science thats falsifying or fudging the results....
we can go on like this all day...
oh look if i slide it this way to fit the data then just choose any event as novel....
oh look its working... its working....

the only thing time wave zero theory shows is humans are capable of belief in anything...

Originally posted by Zagari
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Yes, and also the way global society behaves in response to the events matters...

OK now were getting somewhere

So the actual events themselves are irrelevant its the effect on global conciousness that is the important thing.

Am I correct?

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


The graph should be able to forecast moments in the future when the global attention will focus on one single event...
Like June 25 2009.
When the research started in 2009, it was early June 2009 and we were discussing June 25 2009 because that was a moment in which novelty was very very high.

The graph was able to say that on June 25 2009 global attention would have focused on one event ( mj death ) since the 1990s.
It was written in the graph for years in the past.

The graph also got lower when the 2009 July 22 eclipse happened because it created a record.

The graph should theoretically being able to tell you when to expect change and when to expect stability.

reply to post by Zagari

The graph should theoretically being able to tell you when to expect change and when to expect stability.

OK that is much more believable and I appreciate you used the word "theoretically"

With that one statement you brought this out of science fiction and into reality.

So keeping it short and simple, what your saying is that it cant tell you what will happen only that SOMETHING will happen on an approximate date?

Am I correct?

P.s top marks for getting the info across using a language that isnt your natural one

Originally posted by sprocket2cogWell ill be so brazen as to give you a start point as i belive exactly what your saying
given any two time frames a list of evnts can be found that show time wave type evidence
so if you care to use my dates
how about over 10 years
using 1973-1983 and 1997-2007
as the two ten year time frames.

edit , especially since the op in both threads evades me with an answer containing substantial proof.

edit on 9-6-2011 by sprocket2cog because: (no reason given)

I believe you are trying to prove that we are just "seeing things where there isn't anything" i.e. patterns that don't exist.

For interests sake, use those dates that you posted and come back with resonances. They won't be at all related to TWZ as per Zagari's comments but it will be interesting to see what you come up with.

If you read the Countdown to Transition thread there is lots of evidence we've posted that supports the theory. Please post evidence that disproves it in this thread.

A note about that video - I don't consider that a thorough debunking. The author has a very limited understand of TWZ and his arguments don't hold up.

I think its a question of resolution - you could go through every minor event in history and perhaps find resonances in current times, but the smaller the scale the more difficult it is to prove a match. This is because as one poster said, floods happen all the time, so do wars, conflicts etc. Linking one minor revolution to another can easily be seen as shoe-horning. The further down in scale you go the more this becomes apparent - does a tree falling over in a forest have any connection to a tree falling in the same forest 100 years ago? Well we just don't know and its well beyond our capability to figure that out for sure right now, but current science says "No".

This doesn't mean TWZ isn't valid its just that the smaller the scale the more bias in interpretation is possible.

If you take a broader view of it things actually lines up pretty well. Our current situation resonates with a few key historic events:

1. The 2nd industrial revolution - when man was first beginning to harness fossil fuels on a mass scale. Our current situation resonates with this because we have come full circle as it were. We are now seeing the consequences of this change and beginning to realise that we need to change our systems again. The previous resonance of this was the birth of agriculture in ~6000 BC - also a massive energy revolution which set the human race on a different path and accelerated the ingression into novelty.

2. Tying in very closely with #1 is communication. During the 2nd Industrial evolution, mass communication started to become possible. Where previously it may have taken weeks/months to get a letter across the country you could now send it by rail and it would take days. Sailing around the world may have taken years but with combustion engines it would take months. This meant communication across the planet sped up dramatically and so did the connectedness of the planet. In the previous resonance (~6000BC), writing was invented at least in part to help manage the new farming operations. In recent times, we've seen the next stage of this evolution - the internet and a mass Information Technology Communication revolution. There are even people who say that a Cyber War has begun or is brewing!

3. Economic depression and the creation of the Federal Reserve - The economic depression at the beginning of the 1900s. This resonates with recent months in which most economies have been doing very poorly. The Federal Reserve was born out of this recession and was supposed to stop further recessions. This of course failed and the Great Depression happened anyway. In recent years we have seen the GFC and QE/banker bailouts arguably all engineered by the Fed/International Bankers. Meanwhile people are starting to get pissed off at the Fed and there is even Ron Paul openly calling for it to be disbanded. All of this close to the resonance of the Fed actually being created in the first place. In other words, we are now seeing the resonance of our current financial systems and it is manifesting as the system failing as it was ultimately destined to do (because you can't have infinite expansion forever).

4. WW1, Rise of Hitler and WW2. Today resonates with 1914, which was the year that WW1 started. In recent months we've seen major tension brewing all over the world but especially the Middle East. Many are saying that we are seeing the beginning of WW3. Meanwhile the US and other western nations are becoming increasingly like Nazi Germany with growing unrest and Government/Police control tightening.

About resonances: There's no hard and fast definition for the term which makes it difficult to understand at first and easy to dismiss. In terms of the graph, as Zagari has pointed out, it means that the pattern of the line is identical between one point on the graph and the other. In the real world it means there is a "theme" to each period of time. Something that is not tangible yet manifests in behaviours of the planet and of our species. Moreover it means that these "themes" progress through a certain pattern and then repeat themselves. This also happens on smaller scales - one of McKenna's sayings was that Rome falls 9 times an hour.

So using point #1 about energy - in 6000BC the "theme" of the time was energy. Humans responded to this "theme" by developing farming techniques that had never been thought of before. This technology proved so successful that it spread out over the globe and allowed humans to support massive populations.

The next time this same theme came around was in the 2nd industrial revolution. This time we responded to the theme by harnessing combustion of fossil fuels. This gave us amounts of energy that let us do incredible things like power trains and boats, making travel much faster and setting the stage for even faster human development and expansion.

In the current time, we are responding to this same theme with extreme fear, because now we are on the verge of becoming a global community and it is a global issue. The fate of our planet may be at stake here. The answer seems obvious - switch to renewable and free energy, which would spark another revolution into a new way of being and dare I say it a more peaceful one. Alongside this is the development of the internet and its integration into our lives in a way that is terrifying for many people. The recent release of Mobile Phones with Augmented Reality applications is evidence of this trend.

Also a factor is the mainstream media and global consciousness, since global consciousness is a big part of TWZ IMO - the fact that news is so readily available and widespread means some things are highlighted while others go unmentioned. This affects the global consiousness and our levels of conectedness. This is a problem because, for example, something may happen in 2007 and go unreported. But then in 2009 the media gets ahold of it and stirs up a massive frenzy. We then need to ask ourselves if the resonance for that even would be for 2007 or 2009 and it could go either way.

My view is that changes in global consciousness are very significant and so the RESPONSE to a particular event may be more important than the event itself. For example the death of Michael Jackson was not particularly novel in itself (celebrities die every day), but what was significant is that on that day, a large chunk of the people on earth all shared the same experience and turned their minds to his life, his music and his death.

Novelty can be roughly equated to complexity in that McKenna believed the universe was a "Novelty Conserving Engine" (i.e. things get more and more complex). Complexity can be roughly equated to connectedness when talking in terms of networks (like social media, our brains, the internet or the collective consciousness). Therefore, when there is a high level of connectedness or complexity in the collective consciousness, this will register as increasing novelty.

IMO one possible outcome of all of this is humans becoming connected to each other. Whether it is a spiritual awakening or the integration of the internet into our consciousness (or both), one day soon we may see a major shift in perspective towards us being individuals, but also all being one. Imagine if you could hear the thoughts of other people and feel the emotions of those around you - how could you lie, cheat, steal or kill? Imagine if the entire knowledge of the human race was instantly accessible by you in an instant? What need would there be for schools?

A man can dream...a man can dream

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuffSo keeping it short and simple, what your saying is that it cant tell you what will happen only that SOMETHING will happen on an approximate date?

Am I correct?

Its not as cut and dry as that. What it tells you is the likelihood of something new happening at any given time. Something new being something that has never happened/existed before in the universe.

Its like the probability that things will carry on as usual or that something different will happen.

On a micro scale, new things happen all the time, although faster now than ever before. e.g. New patents being released every day. On a macro scale, the global trend should match the graph. So in periods when the graph inclines (less novelty) the overall theme should be about the status quo and routine. When the graph declines (more novelty) then routines get disrupted, new things happen and you have to adjust.

An example of this was WW2, a period of extreme novelty in our history, with all sorts of scientific breakthroughs, mass production of machinery, unprecedented death and destruction, incredible new weapons being brought to bear. After that, everyone was exhausted from the war and exhausted by the massive upheaval that it brought. It was a time of novelty after which everything went back to routine for a while (though note the routines were different because they were based on the changes that happened in that period - so for example the factories mass producing tanks started to churn out cars instead). Then everyone just wanted to go home, mow the lawn and have some kids, who would later become known as the baby boomers.

Ok, dont get me wrong, there is truth in everything
but its a matter of how much truth that interests me..
i dont Argue that you see patterns where there is none, but rather there is patterns in evrything, so to isolate a random pattern is not a proof in its self.
Yes a man can dream , but when the dream says that the world may end in 2012 because the time wave graph reaches zero point. well sorry i cant travel that road..
I only asked for more evidence to support the wave as all i see at the moment is tentative.
but i ha ve no further reason to debunk it, as i have satisfied myself and know which path i walk.
so while its been an interesting conversation, i fear that the quantum collapse of the probability wave will soon make our paths diverge. as your belief in the time wave can not resonate with the reality i choose to walk into.
so thanks again. journey well, and i hope your predictions come to light for you..
just as mine will for me..
but there is no right or wrong, there just is..
the real question is what truth do you seek as all will come to pass if we seek it.
who knows we may meet again in a diffrent reality.. we might not..
peace

reply to post by Cecilofs


OK once again I can sorta appreciate where you were coming from with your last post.

So can i assume there is some debate within TWZ circles themselves as to how it all works?
I do believe in the cyclical nature of things in some ways but to say that its cut and dry 67.8 years or whatever it was loses me.

I still dont see any real correlation between the events connected by resonences in the OP. can you perhaps supply some hard and fast easily digestible ones (once again something like the Lincoln/Kennedy assasination) and can you also try to explain resonances a bit better, sorry.

Cheers

reply to post by sprocket2cog


the world will not end in 2012. Nobody here said that.
Why everybody thinks change means automatically doom?

Actually the real outcome of timewave zero date would be paradise for us.

reply to post by Zagari


noted, so what is your postion on the twz 2012 zero point then?
i dont think the worlds ending, that was my whole point in the last post, i was distancing myself from that.
would love to hear your views of 2012
and does paradise mean leaving the darkness behind and moving into the light, higher energy ?

reply to post by sprocket2cog


There are 3 possible outcomes for the end of Timewave Zero graph:

1) Alien visitation and merging of our culture with their own would change everything
2) Time travel activation and instant technological singularity immediately after...To avoid paradoxes the entire future history of the universe occurs in a instant and all discoveries/technologies of the future are immediately available...
This would look like when you are playing a videogame and you unlock all the tricks.
We would create virtual eternity
3) Only technological singularity

Its very probable that if we are the generation that sees the " final event ", the eschaton, we will have the possibility to live as long as we want.

reply to post by Zagari


Ahh grasshopper you have much to learn
i totally understand the technological singularity , its something i am well versed in
but with out outside intervention we are a long way from downloading into a self aware system to allow us to transcend the universe, we dont even understand the universe
as for aliens showing up, maybe.. but it doesn't mean they will give us the same singularity as a prize
As for time travel paradox's well we are along way from that as a scientific reality.
And to have a grasp on quantum collapse and multi verse theory in regard to time travel, well paradox's cant happen anyway.. as it all takes place in a parallel space of the multi verse.

But having said all of that, let me just say i have meditated about the singularity on many occasions,
and if we look at the metaphysical side of our existence, then thats a different thing all together. maybe 2012 will be a tipping point for some, but i tell you from experience, many enlightened masters have reached the singularity in there spiritual journeys.. call it the source, god, the one... you choose the name..
I know what it feels like
ask your self this, why?
why would you want to live in a state where all is know where all is one , all of the time ?
would get boring..
there is no time frame for you to open that door.. look inside yourself and see what we already know..
There is no final event, it is all an illusion, there is no beginning or end, there just is..
If you truly want to be "one", then be one, why wait..

However abstruse the teachings are, in comparison with this enlightenment they are like a single hair to the great sky. However profound the complicated knowledge of the world, compared to this enlightenment it is like one drop of water to the great ocean

the gateless gate koan's
its a zen thing...

reply to post by Zagari


No need to debunk it.. it is absolute non sense that only a complete moron would by into even for a moment.. There is NO science here at all.

Originally posted by aceto
reply to post by Zagari

 

No need to debunk it.. it is absolute non sense that only a complete moron would by into even for a moment.. There is NO science here at all.

Word up. I read this entire post and see no merit in this theory. EVEN IF there we some validity to the concept and methodology, it has one major flaw. It relies on historical reference to tie the whole thing together. Which hinges on the writers of said history to determine what events are significant. Looking at history through the eyes of different cultures and personal views has a completely different perception of what is significant. What about things that may have occured that maybe significant to your theory that weren't big enough news 100 years ago to appear on the Google searches that are probably used as reference. Or, huge events that take place that aren't found out about for years later, Tunguska for instance.

It seems that they are trying to make a cosmic generalization from fragments of information considered to be important to modern western civilization. I doubt the Wikileaks reference in one of the points will come up a 100 years from now when someone uses Google 935.0 to create the same theory.

Sorry. But...rubbish and poppycock.

reply to post by Zagari


you " forgot "

#4 - nothing happens , other than the graph runs out

which is the most likley - as its end point is a artbitary selection