Is this the checkpoint of the future?

reply to post by AshleyD


hi folks..im a frequent flier and registered with a lot of companies..i also have a biometric passport..and the thing i cannot seem to understand is why you worry so much?why are you seeing only the negative part of this..is also a good security improvement..i mean,what if in your plane there would be a terrorist??..you would thedn blame the system for not being secure enough!!..im actually feeling this as a positive thing..we need a safer world and if a little privacy its what we have to sacrifice then so be it!..its just my opinion,please dont throw the stone before reflecting on the safety of your children and yourself.! peace!

reply to post by Crakeur


exactly!...they dont need to take control over us...

This is scary.
Fight it.

reply to post by AshleyD


I want to know the criterion for grouping passengers. I want to know what would be used to classify someone in the normal or the enhanced category. There is no way that one's political ideology or affiliation won't come into play here. Registered Republican? Enhanced. Contributed to the DNC last election? Normal. Or, to be fair, it could be the other way around... either way is wrong. I can also see the lawsuits right now... "Why are more (insert race/gender/nationality here) people going through the enhanced line?"

My solution is for any and all passengers to be allowed to carry concealed weapons on the plane. I guarantee you there would be no problems. That would stop someone with bad intentions from even thinking about it.

reply to post by withallmylove

we need a safer world and if a little privacy its what we have to sacrifice then so be it!..its just my opinion,please dont throw the stone before reflecting on the safety of your children and yourself.! peace!

So would you rather be a fat slave or a skinny free man?

If you had the choice between giving up your freedoms and choices and living as a slave to the whims of someone else, but you would be guaranteed safety and a moderately comfortable life, would you choose to hand over your freedom for those assurances of comfort?

Sadly, I have asked this question to many people and astoundingly I get about 50% of the people I ask agreeing that it would be acceptable. These are scary times we live in. People do not understand how indoctrinated they have become. The "normal" has shifted.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)

Sourcde

reply to post by getreadyalready


no..i would never give up my freedom!...could you please explain to me why should i consider myself a slave for having a biometrical passport and customer cards for flying?(hell i even get discounts on my travels!)..do you really think freedom is equal to your privacy settings??..i am free to go wherever i want,to say whatever i want and even do whatever i want( within the moral and legal laws ofcourse)..and mostly im free to THINK whatever i want!!...being scared makes pple become slaves!!..its fear that draws pple down to slavery...
the elite doesnt need much to get your information..they already have it!chip or no chip..believe me..the trick is to fight back with their own weapons. and remember there is always a positive side to the facts even when they seem completely negative,its up to each and every person finding it...you have to keep your eyes,ears mind wide open but still closed
please define the word FREEDOM..i really would like to know what it means to you..maybe we just have different perspectives..sometimes is great combining different points of view in an educated manner..could lead to surprising results.
with respect!

Don't know if anyone mentioned it, but it's a stupid plan to begin with, because the terrorist groups will just get their hand-picked candidates pre-approved to go through the fast lane with minimal screening anyway.

If we knew they were terrorists, they wouldn't get on the plane anyway. They will just find a candidate with a clean background and get him/her a pass to take the easy way on, all dressed in bloomer/shoe/wig-bombs!

reply to post by AshleyD

What in the heck is that?

I am completely sick of all of this nonsense.

When they mentioned a ''biometric'' ID they could be refering to the RFID chips that have now been inlcuded in the front page of most passports or ''ePassports'' or something similar.


Australian ePassport

Australia's first ePassport was introduced in October 2005.

The chip embedded in the centre page stores the holder's digitised photograph, name, gender, date of birth, nationality, passport number, and the passport expiry date. This is exactly the same information that appears on the printed data page of the passport.

The ePassport offers several important advantages. It:

* provides greater protection against fraudulent misuse and tampering
* reduces the risk of identity fraud, currently estimated to cost the Australian economy billions each year
* enhances the protection of Australia's border through speedy and secure verification of incoming Australian passport holders.



Travelling to the USA

Australians visiting the USA may be eligible to be admitted for 90 days under the US Visa Waiver Program (VWP) and Electronic System for Travel Authorisation (ESTA) provided they travel on a Machine Readable Passport (MRP) i.e. a passport with a Machine Readable Zone (MRZ).

All valid Australian passports currently in circulation (whether ePassports or not) have MRZs and comply with US requirements under the VWP.

Biometric Passport (Wiki)

ePassport(US)




Those scanners in your OP kind of reminded me of the movie total recall.... wonder if they have x-ray scanners hidden behind the paneling, perhaps that is what they meant when they said passengers would not need to remove clothing etc...

This is for one thing.
to intimidate you to conform.
to surrender to the system.
to let them put you in a box
and have All your data.
to control and categorize you.
I am supervised that its not two feet high.
to make you crawl.

reply to post by Havick007


Thanks, Hon. You may be right. Another poster mentioned that as well and now that I think about it, I vaguely remember reading something about that a few years back.

It's still disturbing to me, though. Kind of like a chip in an object today, a chip in our bodies tomorrow. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I totally forgot about those things.

reply to post by withallmylove


I didn't mean to imply that you were a slave, it was just a hypothetical question. The more often I ask it, the more surprised I become at the answers.

Defining "Freedom" is a difficult thing. I do not consider myself free. I am a slave to my job, my bills, my taxes, licensing requirements, insurance requirements, etc., etc.

Even if everything I owned was paid for in cash, I would still be responsible for paying yearly taxes and insurance. I would still be responsible for meeting zoning requirements, permitting and building code requirements. I would still have to keep my Driver's License current, and insurance on my vehicles, and pay property taxes, and file a yearly income tax return.

It has become difficult to just "live."

Therefore, I do not believe any of us can consider ourselves free.

reply to post by Havick007


Thanks for the information. I guess I would not mind an e-passport and/or e-national id, provided they could prove they keep the mininum necessary information on it. To be honest though I fail to see why conventional passports and conventional ids are not good enough. If you lose your papers, you simply request to have them canceled and apply for new papers.

I would rather go through a little hassle here and there then be tricked into surrendering all my personal/work/educational/sexual preferences/medical/religious affiliation information to authorities whom I don't trust to begin with. Sure they may claim anything they want but a chipped id is almost as bad as getting a chip in the shoulder.

Originally posted by withallmylove
reply to post by AshleyD

 

hi folks..im a frequent flier and registered with a lot of companies..i also have a biometric passport..and the thing i cannot seem to understand is why you worry so much?why are you seeing only the negative part of this..is also a good security improvement..i mean,what if in your plane there would be a terrorist??..you would thedn blame the system for not being secure enough!!..im actually feeling this as a positive thing..we need a safer world and if a little privacy its what we have to sacrifice then so be it!..its just my opinion,please dont throw the stone before reflecting on the safety of your children and yourself.! peace!

DHS and the patriot act were based on a 9-11 false flag event or at the very least they knew of the threat and allowed it to happen so the military-industrial complex could get numerous contracts and the politicians there due kickbacks. 9-11 also served as a perfect excuse to go to war for oil in iraq and opium in afghanistan. Thousands or millions have been killed on all sides which is a big shame.

As for preventing real terrorist attacks, assuming they even exist(yes big if), scanning the baggage and using 5 armed marshals per flight is plenty detterant. People who have brought american planes down in the past where known life insurance fraudsters who smuggled bombs on board via paying airport crews with access to the planes.

Ok then we had gadaffi but that was like 20 years ago, and we had the PLO hijackings in europe 20-30 years ago and A LOT has changed since then. Make no mistake that we are losing our freedoms and our economy is crashing ON PURPOSE!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I think it may work for a couple of reasons.

Better security and makes it harder to commit fraud on paperwork etc and it makes the passports readable by electronic means... I mean instead of a border sec agent or TSA having to read it, it can be scanned and all the information will come up on the computer straight away. It would workmore efficiency and hopefully faster processing at airports etc.

The biometric part comes into as the person digitised photo is also placed on the chip and possibly in the future they may even introduce a fingerprint or iris signature.

Biometric Passport

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/adf10c52faba.png[/atsimg]

Wiki Link

The currently standardized biometrics used for this type of identification system are facial recognition, fingerprint recognition, and iris recognition. These were adopted after assessment of several different kinds of biometrics including retinal scan. The ICAO defines the biometric file formats and communication protocols to be used in passports. Only the digital image (usually in JPEG or JPEG2000 format) of each biometric feature is actually stored in the chip. The comparison of biometric features is performed outside the passport chip by electronic border control systems (e-borders). To store biometric data on the contactless chip, it includes a minimum of 32 kilobytes of EEPROM storage memory, and runs on an interface in accordance with the ISO/IEC 14443 international standard, amongst others.



Data Protection / Security

Non-traceable chip characteristics. Random chip identifiers reply to each request with a different chip number.This prevents tracing of passport chips.
Basic Access Control (BAC).
BAC protects the communication channel between the chip and the reader by encrypting transmitted information.
Before data can be read from a chip, the reader needs to provide a key which is derived from the Machine Readable Zone [Mrz]: the date of birth, the date of expiry and the document number. If BAC is used, an attacker cannot (easily) eavesdrop transferred information without knowing the correct key.

Welcome to the 21st century and beyond... I still dont quite agree with it all, but then again i really dont have anything to hide compared to a terrorist or someone commiting fraud but at the same i feel the shadow of a police type of state getting closer and closer...

reply to post by getreadyalready


yes..freedom is hard to define,for me is more like a state of mind then a physical ability to chose...dont feel a slave cause you are not one! all responsabilities you have have a meaning,we are all part of a sytem,rather we like it or not,we get born into the system and must go along with it but we still have our freedoms..its really just a matter of perspective..i feel free to change my job or to change my location,my friends,experience so many things,beautiful or bad....ok,change is not easy but is 100 percent possible..
in the end..nobody has the power to influence upon us as much as we have..that is the reason i smile!i hope you understand my way of seeing this.

reply to post by Havick007


iris scan and fingerprints are already in use and you are right! if you have nothing to hide you shouldnt worry...pple should stop being afraid of the small spiders and close their eyes when trex is in the room...come on folks,this is just an efficient way to keep airports safe and faster hopefully..there are so many things one must and should worry about ..
fear..fear for the new kills us,thank god for the young ones..!

reply to post by Havick007


The security features you mentioned used to apply to people who were working with classified government documents, usually cia and nsa personel. Not only do I see no need for iris and fingerprint recognition signatures, but it serves as a launching point for even more intrusiveness in the future.

Maybe you should take a trip to the UK and be monitored by a million cameras in london or perhaps you should check out the Pine Gap facility in central australia to see what they are up to. Hint its part of project echelon, which is run by the nsa gestapo. Every email, post, fax, telephone call and sms gets run through a central database and anything deemed "suspicous" by them makes you a possible enemy of the state. So if you talk about ufos a lot and have proof or if you declare yourself a soveriegn...then lookout!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by withallmylove

 

I didn't mean to imply that you were a slave, it was just a hypothetical question. The more often I ask it, the more surprised I become at the answers.

Defining "Freedom" is a difficult thing. I do not consider myself free. I am a slave to my job, my bills, my taxes, licensing requirements, insurance requirements, etc., etc.

Even if everything I owned was paid for in cash, I would still be responsible for paying yearly taxes and insurance. I would still be responsible for meeting zoning requirements, permitting and building code requirements. I would still have to keep my Driver's License current, and insurance on my vehicles, and pay property taxes, and file a yearly income tax return.

It has become difficult to just "live."

Therefore, I do not believe any of us can consider ourselves free.

I couldn't agree more. Freedom is an illusion that only the ignorant believe to be true. As long as you stay within the confines of the little box that has been designed for you and obey the rules of the box, then you will think you are free. It's when one attempts to venture outside of the box that they find out just how "un-free" they really are.

I don't think that most of the proponents of freedom would want to live in a society with absolute freedom, because they don't truly understand what that would entail.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by withallmylove

 

I didn't mean to imply that you were a slave, it was just a hypothetical question. The more often I ask it, the more surprised I become at the answers.

Defining "Freedom" is a difficult thing. I do not consider myself free. I am a slave to my job, my bills, my taxes, licensing requirements, insurance requirements, etc., etc.

Even if everything I owned was paid for in cash, I would still be responsible for paying yearly taxes and insurance. I would still be responsible for meeting zoning requirements, permitting and building code requirements. I would still have to keep my Driver's License current, and insurance on my vehicles, and pay property taxes, and file a yearly income tax return.

It has become difficult to just "live."

Therefore, I do not believe any of us can consider ourselves free.

You skipped an awful lot more "responsibilities" forced upon the corporate citizen of most nations including america. Gas prices keep going up, food prices keep going up, medical procedures and pharmaceuticals keep going up, insurance premiums keep going up for house, car and life insurance. Social security/medicare-medicaid/welfare is running dry thanks to this planned fiasco and budget cuts despite the fact most people deserve what they get.

Try making minimum wage at $7 an hour and then have to pay state taxes, federal taxes, social security deductions, unemployment, disability, etc. I used to work at mcdonalds years ago and made a gross pay of $250 per week but because I was single I ended up coming home with about $180 per week. That is not enough money to buy cigaratees, pay $4 a gallon for gas, mortgage or rent for house, childsupport, grocery supplies from the super-market, clothes, a nintendo or x-box and a few games, fix my piece of # car at the garage, pay insurance premiums, property taxes, annual car inspection sticker, renew my car registration every 5 years and pay $50 each time, etc...etc

Yes we are slaves and MOST do not realise it or they say "well thats life!". Life is a bitch and then you die? Only with our ignorant consent of the laws from the altered constitution and because we are TOO TIRED to learn anything new. Most couples have to work 80 hours a week just to survive and raise children, nevermind those that try to live beyond their means and have their homes foreclosed.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Speaking of the "two-income household!" That is the worst thing to sneak up on us in the history of the US. There was a time when one income was enough to live comfortably. There wasn't so much spending on eating out and daycare and services such as housecleaning and lawncare, etc.

Nowadays, we have a second income, and 25% of it goes to taxes, 10% of it goes to gas and clothing to support the new job, 25-50% of it goes to daycare, then everyone is too tired to cook and clean and mow the yard, so the rest of the income goes to those services. We work longer, and harder, and we have less to show for it, and we don't even get to spend time with our family and loved ones!

My wife and I went through this a couple of years ago, and we decided it was not cost effective for her to work. She stayed home with the kids for 4 years, and now she is back at work. It helps to have her working during the school year, but for the summer, we are barely breaking even on her income, she only keeps the job, so she will have it in the fall when school starts back.

The system has railroaded everyone into working more, spending more, charging more, paying more, and then not being able to escape.

It was no accident either!! It was engineered this way intentionally, check out this video if you have never seen it. It explains how the economists and administration intentionally designed our "disposable lifestyle" to keep the factories running after the wars.

The Story of Stuff