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Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by hawkiye
Its NOT WORKING so its not what people think, is it! Been hearing this BS for 40+ years and if I am lucky or unlucky depending how you look at this subject I will be posting the same replies for another 40!
Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Gorman91
If you'd like to continue this mud slinging fest I arranged a thread for it:
HERE
tin-foil hats to join and talk about how they think antigravity,free energy, alien hybrids and the like are real. And I also invite the rational people like yourself that have a foundation in reality.
Originally posted by hawkiye
Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by hawkiye
Its NOT WORKING so its not what people think, is it! Been hearing this BS for 40+ years and if I am lucky or unlucky depending how you look at this subject I will be posting the same replies for another 40!
IT IS WORKING it has been confirmed, tested for trickery, and measured for input v output by several prominent scientist who have put papers out etc..There have been several threads on it on ATS documenting the evidence.
Your blind presumption and excessive self-esteem do not make to see you beyond your nose, boncho gheddafi!
If you'd like to continue this mud slinging fest of "NO IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!" posts, I invite all the "Nay sayers" like you to join and talk about scientific tests, documents and proof that this new device "E-Cat" is real and it works fine!
If you search, I've arranged some threads for this...
Rossi = Dr. Evil ?
Originally posted by Arken
reply to post by boncho
Rossi = Dr. Evil ?
You are really a superstitious!
That is the way The powerful Oil Companies like it!
Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Amaterasu
You are saying your solution offers a lot, but in actuality, it doesn't. It's offering an idea. And like EVERY Idea that has every existed, some will follow, some will abuse, and some will fight it. You cannot stop this fundamental fact in the grand diversity of humanity.
Worse still you act as if it solves all the world's problems. Most of the problems of the world were caused by people who thought the thing they did that caused that problem would solve all the world's problems. You simply don't know. You don't know the affects of the technology and culture you affect. You are acting from a person from this era. Not thinking along the consequences.
Everything you're answer ignores so much and goes into its own circular logic. You assume everyone will live where they are, when in fact people will move, change, force changes, give up changes, and resist changes. Simply out of human nature.
It is your standards, like it or not.
You expect all of humanity to go rank in file.
Leaders will lead, followers will follow, and sailors will sail. Well what if a sailor wants to lead, though he sucks at it.
But he's great at moving people to follow him. How do you stop such a leader?
A leader good at organizing, but fails at leading.
No one's there to remove him from power.
How does your system deal with democracy? Democracy is the great evil of man. As long as you can get more than half the people with you, you can do whatever you want. And you're system has no checks and balances?
Worse still, you speak of parties and what nots as equivalent to social needs. This is foul-hearty Party =/ social health. In fact, it more than likely leads to social degeneracy in too much mass.
Plenty is not security. In fact, plenty is just the average.
You can give people all the food in the world, and someone will have more, and they will be jealous.
Plenty is an average. Looks at America. Our poor are some nation's rich.
Yet they are poor because our standards are higher. And then you simply say, as if you're words are God, that you're view of population growth is correct.
You are looking at westernized secular nation as the example of what everyone will become.
The westernized secular rich person example is but one cultural bi-product of having plenty
Look at the 1920s again, when people had plenty. They had 5+ kids.
Look at Rome, at its height.
The city of Rome went from 4 million people to 5 million people in just 4 decades around the turn of the millennial. You have to look at all cultures, all peoples, and all ways of life and what they become when they have plenty.
European secular rich people tend to have few kids, but Religious poor people in China tend to have just as many because of the government. Rich religious people who come from poor places like Hugo Chavez have huge families. You can't take one culture's rich people and paint it as the defacto face of the future. That's gross. That's imperialistic, that's just disgusting at the highest order or saying "my way or no way".
Hell, you're attitude makes me want to bring down your system simply because of your arrogance of the real world. Not because I don't like your system. because I don't like the people it would produce.
Hell I might as well declare war on your system right here and declare I will do all in my power to prevent it. You're just not experienced with the rich, with the poor. With the middle class Muslim person, with the lower class Catholic, with the rich Jew, with the revolutionary Latino. With the people. You're living in a dream world where everything is as you think it is.
Then no One will follow.
If people don't like what Hume suggests...They ignore Hume.
In a sense it is a democratic system, but a true democracy that does not ""vote itself money" because there is no need for money.
Average??? LOL! The average Human is going to bed hungry. Plenty means EVERYONE may have what They want. You think that is the way it is now? The average Human does not need to worry about whether there is food on the table?
[sigh] If they are "jealous," They can go get more, too. You are very unclear on the concept.
No, I say what I say because I have studied.
Considering that I expect no One to "become" anything except better fed, better clothed and better sheltered, it becomes evident that You're talking out Your tail end here. I expect people to do what gives them bliss - but beyond that, there are no expectations except in general. (People will solve problems the BEST way, not the cheapest/most profitable.)
It's an example of having plenty in scarcity. I am unconcerned with the presently rich. My concern lies with billions who will go to bed hungry.
It's an example of having plenty in scarcity. I am unconcerned with the presently rich. My concern lies with billions who will go to bed hungry.
Not the rich Ones. The Ones who needed hands on the farm? Yeah. They had lots of kids. And still, that was a scarcity paradigm.
Except... There was poverty and as long as We are trapped in scarcity, there always WILL BE poverty. My aim is to end poverty. And the population was not all rich and able to do anything but work and have sex...
[sigh] You clearly don't grasp what having opportunity does to people's sex life. Sure, some minor cultures may persist in having many children. But overall, with new found freedom, birth rates will drop.
What kind of people do You see being produced? People with enough food? People with opportunity? People with choices?
Meh. Have a nice life.
Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Amaterasu
I wouldn't fight the rising standards as an elite if I were one. You assume too much right in your first statement there. Also, there's more to the world besides poor middle and elite. And the fact that I don't know testifies to the fact that you don't either. You cannot plot out who will do what. That's an error on your behalf. For instance, saying all people have to do is accept this or do that. That's a dictatorship of the mind, believe it or not. And there is a rule. Everybody never accepts the same thing. How does your system make people accept?
No, you're system, like I said, merely makes people their own money. A person who learns would be worth more than someone who just teaches and eats. Worth is undeniable among humans. All humanity is worth the same, but all humans grow or lessen in worth from that standard. How does you system stop this?
You say it's not your standard. How? Words are worthless. Facts need to prove your claims.
Suppose a leader breaks the laws and nobody cares because they're still happy and have what they want? What then?
Suppose the rule of democracy happens and everybody just hates one group of people and few stand in the way? What prevents your ideal society from hating one group of the other.
For instance, abortion. I refuse to accept a society that allows it for no other reason than because the mother feels like it.
Others refuse to accept a society that would only allow it if the mother's life is in danger. This is a social cleavage. What does your system do to prevent war in that cleavage?
Then no One will follow.
Hitler
Bush
Obama
Bush1
Taft
Woodrow Wilson
Ulysses S. Grant
Just to name a few.
If people don't like what Hume suggests...They ignore Hume.
No, they don't all ignore him. Once again your spout your words like you are the mind of the people. A true dictator are you. Yes, believe everyone will do what you say they will do. Can't have dissent eh?
In a sense it is a democratic system, but a true democracy that does not ""vote itself money" because there is no need for money.
The Federal Reserve
Tiberius Gracchus's social reforms.
Caesar's mission
Just to name a few.
Average??? LOL! The average Human is going to bed hungry. Plenty means EVERYONE may have what They want. You think that is the way it is now? The average Human does not need to worry about whether there is food on the table?
This statement does not change the fact. The average, no matter how high or how low, is still the average. People don't like being average.
[sigh] If they are "jealous," They can go get more, too. You are very unclear on the concept.
There's an old saying. The needle that broke the camel's back. You're not very clear on the concept apparently.
No, I say what I say because I have studied.
Book ideals fail in the real world.
Considering that I expect no One to "become" anything except better fed, better clothed and better sheltered, it becomes evident that You're talking out Your tail end here. I expect people to do what gives them bliss - but beyond that, there are no expectations except in general. (People will solve problems the BEST way, not the cheapest/most profitable.)
It's an example of having plenty in scarcity. I am unconcerned with the presently rich. My concern lies with billions who will go to bed hungry.
Unconcerned. huh. And do tell. What happens when others become unconcerned about you? Some ideal world.
Not the rich Ones. The Ones who needed hands on the farm? Yeah. They had lots of kids. And still, that was a scarcity paradigm.
*assumption that not having a lot means they have a problem.
Except... There was poverty and as long as We are trapped in scarcity, there always WILL BE poverty. My aim is to end poverty. And the population was not all rich and able to do anything but work and have sex...
*assumption that most people would want to so anything but. I don't. My family doesn't. In fact, most people I know would call "work and sex" and ideal life. Once again, you apply your standards to the whole of humanity. Fail.
[sigh] You clearly don't grasp what having opportunity does to people's sex life. Sure, some minor cultures may persist in having many children. But overall, with new found freedom, birth rates will drop.
*assumption
What kind of people do You see being produced? People with enough food? People with opportunity? People with choices?
People with apathy because of their greed.
Meh. Have a nice life.
And there we have it. This phrase in ans of itself proves the failure of your system. Meh, have a nice life. It sums up why your ideal can never succeed.
And why really, there's no hope for your claims. Meh, have a nice life is the mentality of the apathetic, and the stubborn.
The wrongfully righteous, and the elite. You, in those words, have sealed your fate. You are no different than those you preach against.
If One chose to be a couch potato so what?
Nothing preventing hatred of another group - and as long as the Laws are not broken, there is no problem. Once the Laws are broken, society will frown. And do something. What depends greatly on who and how and what and when the Laws are broken (by).
And I prefer a society that ensures every child that results from a pregnancy is wanted.
There is a great deal of data that shows that unwanted children are the largest part of who breaks the three Laws. Also, I use the benchmark provided through the Talmud of what the Christian God said was when the soul enters the body (and also so stated in many other traditions, as well): the soul enters the body at first breath.
[shrug] Yes, We will still have bones of contention. But they will not be bones We don't already have. And meanwhile, We can live richly as We address these issues - as opposed to most of Us living in poverty.
Well... War breaks the three Laws... But if people want to break the Laws, I guess society will dissolve. (I doubt that it will... Most people prefer peace and prosperity and will work hard to maintain that.)
Did any of These You mention lack the stranglehold of scarcity? Did They get followers strictly on ideological agreement? Or did They pay some, promise to others, force yet more? The fact that You can find leaders that had power (money, energy) over others to begin with that did poor things does NOT equate to the same expectations when ALL One has is One's ideas and Others much accept those ideas as good ones before change is affected.
If One has opportunity, One is very difficult to control.
What have these scarcity paradigm controllers to do with abundance? The Fed will vanish. And the others are past scarcity paradigm controllers. What's Your point?
Only if They are aware They are "average..." And it depends on what it is we're talking about. And the average - planet-wise - is that People are in poverty. People don't like living in poverty - but that has to do with comfort and opportunity, not because They are "average."
Huh? What has that to do with having plenty for all to have what They want? And I do believe it is the STRAW that breaks the camel's back. You're not clear how it is irrelevant.
LOLOL! I have studied books, and People, events, news, psychology, and made copious observations.
And in abundance, I don't need anyOne's concern... If
Man You love to twist words, don't You. (Leads Me to suspect You have an agenda here...)
Huh? I pointed out that the People having children in the time frame you mentioned (the 1920's as I recall) were the poor people, the farmers who needed hands on the farm, mostly. NOT the rich. And now you bring this irrelevant comment in (while stripping mine of its context). Are You certain You have no agenda?
I want each Human life to have the opportunity to make a difference, to live comfortably, to be comfortable. No standards I apply - only a structure within which many standards fit.
How does that greed manifest? Why would They be apathetic? Why would They not be thrilled to have the opportunity to do the things They have merely been able to dream about? Please answer these three questions.
Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Amaterasu
Because you say so right? I mean, you wrote it right? So it must be true.
No, sorry. The last round of answers put the nail in the coffin of your system. And your lack of answer for it only reinforces this fact.
So long as we disagree on just one deep issue, like abortion-and you're opinion is very unscientific and flawed, just saying-, your society can never exist.
To quote the bible, I will strike at your head and you will strike at my heal. It will never end.
It's illustrative, not "fact" oriented. It is science "fiction." A "day in the life," as it were. But it shows how people will live in abundance. Read it. Don't. I don't care.
I see. If any two Individuals fail to agree on specifics, society cannot exist. Got it. Makes sense to Me.
Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
the Nazis never even finished building the atom bomb.....