Canadian Couple Decides to Raise 'Genderless' Baby

reply to post by RUSSO


Yeah... I think these people are kind of out there! Gender is one thing, sexuality is another. If it's a girl, it's a girl. If it's a boy, it's a boy. I think they're looking for attention, myself. I think the only thing they're going to accomplish is raising a confused child that will probably eventually resent them.

Edit:

It kinds of disturbs me when I read something like "It's their baby... let them raise it however..." True, it is their child, but that child will one day grow to be an adult that has to function in this world. There are some freedoms that parents should have, but others... I'm not so sure about. Not really sure how to feel about this one.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Isn't it incredible how both the ''mother'' and ''father'' dress normally and have gender-specific haircuts ?

They obviously think it's ok to let their children look like freaks, but opt to go about their own lives conforming to gender-specific social fashion norms...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/295d52896cfe.jpg[/atsimg]

edit on 24-5-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)

Hello Sherlock!

You do know that the one wearing the green is DAD, don't you?

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
No they have their identity, kids still develop theirs.

Yes, and amazingly their ''identities'' appear to be fully compatible with general social norms, so ''coincidentally'' they won't encounter any problems in public, at work or just going about their day to day lives...

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
Not nice calling a child a 'freak' btw.

Not nice for a parent to encourage their child to look like a freak btw.

In my opinion, being a man or a woman is an issue of anatomy. If you have the organs of a man, then you are a man. If you have the organs of a woman, you are a woman. No if, ands, or buts about it.

Being a woman does not mean playing with barbies, wearing pink, and having sex with men.

Just like being a man does not mean playing with GI Joes, wearing blue, and having sex with women.

Man and Woman is an anatomical difference, not an issue of how you "feel" your preferences for things, or anything else. It seems people are confusing the two. That's why I shake my head when people get a sex change operation. If you have a penis, you are a man. You say you "feel" like a woman, well what does that mean? There is no such thing as "feeling like a woman" because being a woman isn't a feeling, it's having female organs.

If you have a penis, and are attracted to men, like to wear dresses and makeup, then you are a homosexual cross dressing man, not a woman trapped in a man's body.

People are confusing society's expectations on what certain genders are supposed to be, with anatomical features. Wearing certain clothes and being attracted to men doesn't make you a woman. Being born with a vagina and uterus does.

People that get a sex change operation are simply caving into the pressures of society on what a certain gender is supposed to do. If you are born a male, but your interests lay more with what society says a woman is supposed to do, that doesn't mean you have to get a sex change operation so that you will be more accepted for your preferences. It means we have to change what we expect a man and a woman to do.

Because of this I see the people who get sex change operations as actually HURTING other people that feel the same was as them, is that instead of saying "I was born a man, and I am a man, but I like to wear dresses, wear makeup, and have sex with other men" they say "I was born a man, but should have been born a woman" This idea makes it even harder for other people that share the feeling of not fitting into the roles society has given us. Instead of being comfortable with who you are, a man that sleeps with men and wears women's clothes, they want to change who they are. That's not a good thing, in my opinion.

The only time things get confusing is with hermaphrodites. In this case I believe it should be the choice of the child, once the reach a certain age.

Anyway, I had to get that out of the way because it explains my feelings towards these parents. I don't think they should be raising their child as "not a male or a female" but should raise their MALE or their FEMALE child as such, but just tell them it's ok to express themselves how they see fit. If they want to play with toys that are usually the domain of the other gender, it doesn't matter. If they want to wear clothes meant for the other gender, it doesn't matter either. But you are doing nothing but harm by confusing a child by not letting him/her understand what a man and a woman is. You can't decide what gender you are, even with surgery. Gender is predetermined and cannot be changed. Personality, preferences, and lifestyle is completely up to the individual, and should not be confused with gender.

reply to post by JonoEnglish


Ok I have a question for you ...

Can a parent manipulate a child and then use positive reinforcement to program ?

Would you like to know the name of this boys's favorite book ? I will tell you , The Hundred Dresses

Believe what you want my friend and ignore what you want as well , fine buy me .

And once again , and for the last time , home school as a means of isolating is wrong . A child needs to discover them selves and there social skills buy growing and interacting with there peers not by isolation and parental manipulation , but hey what do I know .

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
Hello Sherlock!

You do know that the one wearing the green is DAD, don't you?

Yeah, that would explain the two oranges that he has shoved down the front of his top.

reply to post by Cuervo


You clearly have no idea what I am even talking about....

And clearly the thousands of whiny wimpy single guys out there crying about how the girls never want them other than a shoulder to cry on are the same boat....

What does driving a tractor have to do with femininity? Absolutely nothing. I know plenty of attractive females that can handle everything from a tractor, to a harley roadster, that has zero to do with it.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
Hello Sherlock!

You do know that the one wearing the green is DAD, don't you?

Yeah, that would explain the two oranges that he has shoved down the front of his top.

EXACTLY!

And isn't it awesome that she gets to borrow the golf balls too now and again?

Oh, how I wish my marriage was half as beautiful as theirs!

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
reply to post by RUSSO

 

These is the kind of "freedom" PTB allow we have.

Great observation.

This is clearly a form of "child abuse", at least for Westerners.

In other cultures of course, it may be considered "normal", like in India, where they have Hijras, and in Tahiti, where the Fa'afafine form a "third gender" (male children raised as girls). They're quite a trip to watch, if you have ever been there, and had one for a waiter (er, waitress). Bizarre to us, but considered totally "normal" in their culture.

It's a crazy world, that's for sure.

JR

My question now is: Is this really freedom?

Now this is Exactly correct i totally agree with you. Which is why little girls can be tomboys, example, like playing with their brothers big boy toys, and boys wanting to play with their older sibling toys, that is totally normal. But refusing to acknowlege what your kids private part is,well thats just seriously wrong.And yes it will cause grief, and embarrassment to a child as they grow.

Originally posted by James1982
In my opinion, being a man or a woman is an issue of anatomy. If you have the organs of a man, then you are a man. If you have the organs of a woman, you are a woman. No if, ands, or buts about it.

Being a woman does not mean playing with barbies, wearing pink, and having sex with men.

Just like being a man does not mean playing with GI Joes, wearing blue, and having sex with women.

Man and Woman is an anatomical difference, not an issue of how you "feel" your preferences for things, or anything else. It seems people are confusing the two. That's why I shake my head when people get a sex change operation. If you have a penis, you are a man. You say you "feel" like a woman, well what does that mean? There is no such thing as "feeling like a woman" because being a woman isn't a feeling, it's having female organs.

If you have a penis, and are attracted to men, like to wear dresses and makeup, then you are a homosexual cross dressing man, not a woman trapped in a man's body.

People are confusing society's expectations on what certain genders are supposed to be, with anatomical features. Wearing certain clothes and being attracted to men doesn't make you a woman. Being born with a vagina and uterus does.

People that get a sex change operation are simply caving into the pressures of society on what a certain gender is supposed to do. If you are born a male, but your interests lay more with what society says a woman is supposed to do, that doesn't mean you have to get a sex change operation so that you will be more accepted for your preferences. It means we have to change what we expect a man and a woman to do.

Because of this I see the people who get sex change operations as actually HURTING other people that feel the same was as them, is that instead of saying "I was born a man, and I am a man, but I like to wear dresses, wear makeup, and have sex with other men" they say "I was born a man, but should have been born a woman" This idea makes it even harder for other people that share the feeling of not fitting into the roles society has given us. Instead of being comfortable with who you are, a man that sleeps with men and wears women's clothes, they want to change who they are. That's not a good thing, in my opinion.

The only time things get confusing is with hermaphrodites. In this case I believe it should be the choice of the child, once the reach a certain age.

Anyway, I had to get that out of the way because it explains my feelings towards these parents. I don't think they should be raising their child as "not a male or a female" but should raise their MALE or their FEMALE child as such, but just tell them it's ok to express themselves how they see fit. If they want to play with toys that are usually the domain of the other gender, it doesn't matter. If they want to wear clothes meant for the other gender, it doesn't matter either. But you are doing nothing but harm by confusing a child by not letting him/her understand what a man and a woman is. You can't decide what gender you are, even with surgery. Gender is predetermined and cannot be changed. Personality, preferences, and lifestyle is completely up to the individual, and should not be confused with gender.

reply to post by Max_TO

Ok I have a question for you ... Can a parent manipulate a child and then use positive reinforcement to program ?

Yes. That's how kids learn right from wrong.
No doubt you will respond with, "Exactly, allowing a 5 year old boy to wear a dress is wrong"
However, there is no harm being done to that child. I used to have a spud gun and shoot my brothers for fun with it. Shooting people for fun is wrong too. Was I abused as a child for being allowed to shoot my brothers with bits of potato out of fun? No, dressing up, playing with dolls etc is not causing any harm. One day that boy will probably stop wearing dresses. Scot's wear kilts, (a man dress) I guess if it was a kilt that would be ok, the kid will understand that it is a 'man thing'

Would you like to know the name of this boys's favorite book ? I will tell you , 1000 dresses .

And? it's his favourite book, not your choice to make.


edit....Stop going on about the home school thing lol...

Originally posted by awareness10
But refusing to acknowlege what your kids private part is,well thats just seriously wrong.And yes it will cause grief, and embarrassment to a child as they grow.

Originally posted by James1982
.

I'm sure the parents accept that it is there. I'm sure the kid will too and no doubt ask about it.

reply to post by JonoEnglish


No my friend , his favorite book as reported by the parents , I couldn't make that up my friend

And is it wrong to wear a dress , if he is manipulated into wearing it and tought to wear it then yes it is wrong , agreed ?

And lastly if he is isolated from his peers so his parents can conduct a social experiment that too is wrong , and dare I say , abuse

reply to post by TKDRL


"Wait till the boy goes to his first job interview in a pink dress, see how that goes over... "

If he doesn't get the job, it will charge you with HETEROSEXISM and it will be against the law!

Wish I was joking...I soooo wish I was joking.

reply to post by RUSSO

My question now is: This is really freedom?

RUSSO, this is the question we should all be asking every time yet another insane, in-your-face attack on societal norms is floated by fringe, or foe.

This business of pushing the envelope has a long track record, and the sad fact is that it works.

On another thread, regarding gay "marriage", it's been amazing to me how "mainstream" the notion is now. Not that I personally care so much, but I see clearly that we are all in a pot being boiled slowly. Most of us have no idea we are the lobsters.

But back to freedom. It becomes more of a philosophical question, and eventually we need to get to the point where we all see that being "free" to hurt people (ourselves included), can only go so far. And yet, society continues down a seemingly very slippery slope.

I think we need to get back to seeing freedom as more of a "healthy" thing. It may be that we have a right to get drunk, but thankfully society has decided that we may not get drunk, and then drive, without sometimes severe consequences. This needs to be what happens in other areas as well.

Where we end up drawing the lines will be interesting I suppose, and if it was all just some more or less "natural" Darwinian bunch of forces playing out, well, then whatever. But there seem to be powerful people with agendas. Call them the "elite", or the PTB, etc.

Why is it that I imagine some smug billionaires somewhere watching this whole thing, laughing, like in that Trading Places movie with Eddie Murphy?

This thing stinks to high heaven, for more than "obvious" reasons, IMO.

JR

Originally posted by Max_TO
reply to post by JonoEnglish

 

No my friend , his favorite book as reported by the parents , I couldn't make that up my friend

And is it wrong to wear a dress , if he is manipulated into wearing it and tought to wear it then yes it is wrong , agreed ?

And lastly if he is isolated from his peers so his parents can conduct a social experiment that too is wrong , and dare I say , abuse

edit on 24-5-2011 by Max_TO because: (no reason given)

I have to accept what the parents are saying through the article.

if the parents were forcing the boy to behave and look like a girl, then yes that is wrong.

Originally posted by Game_Over
reply to post by TKDRL

 

"Wait till the boy goes to his first job interview in a pink dress, see how that goes over... "

If he doesn't get the job, it will charge you with HETEROSEXISM and it will be against the law!

Wish I was joking...I soooo wish I was joking.

So if your Mum made you wear pink dresses, you'd wear one to an interview when you were an adult?

that was absolutely beautifully said,and you do speak for the Majority.


Oh

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
reply to post by RUSSO

 

My question now is: This is really freedom?

RUSSO, this is the question we should all be asking every time yet another insane, in-your-face attack on societal norms is floated by fringe, or foe.

This business of pushing the envelope has a long track record, and the sad fact is that it works.

On another thread, regarding gay "marriage", it's been amazing to me how "mainstream" the notion is now. Not that I personally care so much, but I see clearly that we are all in a pot being boiled slowly. Most of us have no idea we are the lobsters.

But back to freedom. It becomes more of a philosophical question, and eventually we need to get to the point where we all see that being "free" to hurt people (ourselves included), can only go so far. And yet, society continues down a seemingly very slippery slope.

I think we need to get back to seeing freedom as more of a "healthy" thing. It may be that we have a right to get drunk, but thankfully society has decided that we may not get drunk, and then drive, without sometimes severe consequences. This needs to be what happens in other areas as well.

Where we end up drawing the lines will be interesting I suppose, and if it was all just some more or less "natural" Darwinian bunch of forces playing out, well, then whatever. But there seem to be powerful people with agendas. Call them the "elite", or the PTB, etc.

Why is it that I imagine some smug billionaires somewhere watching this whole thing, laughing, like in that Trading Places movie with Eddie Murphy?

This thing stinks to high heaven, for more than "obvious" reasons, IMO.

JR

This is perfectly simple.

People's quality of life depends largely on their social interactions with others.

These ''parents'' are emotionally abusing their children by letting them dress and act in a way that will lead them to become socially excluded, ridiculed and devoid of any real-world friendships.

People need to take off their Politically Correct rose-tinted spectacles and cast their minds back to when you were children. Now, would you be seen dead hanging out with children who looked like this ? Of course not !
No good for your street-cred, and peer pressure would certainly make you distance yourself from them, and perhaps even make you be hostile towards them.

They will struggle to make friends, become recluses and have no hope of finding a girlfriend ( or boyfriend ? ) - you wouldn't blame them if they became a bit confused about that, either.

For all of the people who say that ''this is not abuse'', well, guess what ? it is.

It's not fair to limit your child's chances in life because of your own deluded ideology. Any real parent should give their child the best possible upbringing that leaves them with the most options to achieve personal and social success.

These ''parents'' are doing the complete opposite, and are forcing their children in to an alternative and anti-social lifestyle which will deprive them of enjoying a normal childhood and the chance to develop into well-rounded adults.

The children are going to be messed up, and the demented ''parents'' make me want to .

reply to post by JonoEnglish


Once again , I have had the benefit of hearing more then just this article through out the day .

I can tell you , I have cousins very close in age who are girls and while we were growing up I played my little pony with them , even strawberry short cake . They in turn played star wars action figures with me .

There is nothing wrong with that and that's not what I base my opinion on . If you look at the many various reports regarding this story then you can see for yourself as to what's going on .

This is a social experiment conducted buy the parents on there children . The children are being manipulated through encouragement , positive reinforcement and isolated .

If a parent encourages there kids to cross dress rather then play outside with friends for the purpose of molding there child into what they want them to be , well I am sorry I have a real problem with that and I am surprised to hear anyone defend such a position .