Policing for Profit: Cops Stealing Cash from Citizens under War on Drugs Hoax

Reply to post by Xcathdra

You've explained jurisdiction well.

So I offered non-commercial examples as you requested.

You speak of "laws" as though they are absolute and infallible guaranteed to suggest no less than perfect and responsible actions from those who would enforce them.

This is not reality.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


The entire article and topic of conversatrion is based solely on commercial enforcement, not individual enforcement. People seem to just ignore that fact, and assume cops can do the same thing with joe schmoe and their 4 door passenger car, and they cannot.

Semis are completely seperate and fall under different operating guidelines.

Non commercial examples are irrelevant to the topic of the thread and the assertations being made.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

...and award for best drama goes to......

Nope, you're the Drama Queen for the Day.

What I am laughing at is the lack of common sense being applied. The lack of understanding of how laws work. The lack of understanding about the basics of jurisdiction, and which agency has what where.

So yes, after spending time trying to explain to people the issue, I will laugh at some of the drama coming from people that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Dazzle me with your brilliance and baffle me as well.... I'm sure you know your job and know the mechanics of it better than the average person. But try to convince us that abuse and corruption doesn't happen... that would take some acting skill beyond your ability. You started with the benefit of the doubt but I can see you are a team player, family man, and everyone with a badge is your brother. Oh, brother.

OK, an admission that you are aware that malfeasance occurs in your line of work could put you outside the brotherhood so I know not to expect objectivity on this subject.

This is war, this game being played here. I am on the side of free-will, freedom of choice, doing what in one's heart they know is right. Where I live laws are a guideline, a suggestion, a fall-back for final measures when people take things too far. Law enforcement in the US has long been a matter of looking for a half-inch foot foul and calling a penalty. I don't apply tournament rules to everyday living and it is a mis-carriage to suggest one should.

You are now the one that lurks in the shadows awaiting opportunity to apply brute force where it is not needed. I surmise this by the attitude you display to back-up your brothers at all costs - until one is proven beyond all doubt he has become corrupt. I guess I should admire your loyalty but instead I find abhorrent your blind eye. The system is flawed, worse than that actually. In a more perfect world you should be admired for your courage and loyalty and dedication to your duties. But in the world we live in the reality is that the people are being commanded to do what goes against their nature, to forget about what is well and right and good, and play a tragic game that compounds a small problem into a mountainous catastrophe rolled into a dilemma that is demanding they choose sides, their own or their bosses' who care no more for them than to line their own pockets by playing this and pitting your life against theirs.

I am torn as to how to regard you, with admiration for your devoted service to your fellow man and pity for the taks placed in front of you that you must carry out. Or with hate and loathing for accepting that task that rips at the fragile seams of our society and the damage it is doing.

You have chosen sides and I respect you as a soldier and fellow man, and that somehow in my heart I know you are doing what you believe to be right. I am glad to meet with you on this battlefield and on Christmas day. I wish you well and hope all your children do well in their studies and your daughter's braces give her a brilliant smile. But after we depart from this momentary truce and re-assume our places on the battlefield I put those thoughts and well-wishes aside and pledge not to rest until your ideology of prohibitionism and the ills it bring to society are completely and forever laid to waste.

And your flair for drama trumps mine this day.

Reply to post by Xcathdra

Cops do do the same thing to Joe Schmo. That's why I posted those examples.

How can you compartmentalize like this?

Is your one track really so narrow?

Is that a common cop trait? If so it would go a long way to explain an awful lot of things.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I love how you guys gloss over the initial argument and move into a completely different area. At no point have I ever stated that there is no corruption occuring.

What I did say, and have been consitent in saying, is how the laws work for commercial motor vehicles and seizure laws, which was the topic of the thread.

I have had people give hypotheticals that dont deal with tractor trailers, which is outside the scope of the thread, since the laws covering non tractor trailers are more stringent in terms of stoppring and searching.

Not being a drama queen at all.. Just pointing out the ignorance that is permating this topic.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


And the laws covering Joe Schmoe are compeltely different than those covering tractor trailers.

Completely different...

Ive said this time and again, and yet you guys want to argue to the contrary.

And its no more a common cop trait than people in here being so ignorant and parnoid that they are completely lost and make statements that are not true in any way shape or form when it comes to the law or what we can and cannot do.

I have taken the time to explain how this works, in more than one thread now since people dont use the search feature. You guys ahve your minds made up, regardless of the fact that you dont know what you are talking about. Feel free to goback and read the posts to get up to speed if you desire to learn about this situation.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

The entire article and topic of conversatrion is based solely on commercial enforcement, not individual enforcement. People seem to just ignore that fact, and assume cops can do the same thing with joe schmoe and their 4 door passenger car, and they cannot.

Semis are completely seperate and fall under different operating guidelines.

Non commercial examples are irrelevant to the topic of the thread and the assertations being made.

I beg to differ with you.........................did you watch the video?? it clearly shows passanger vehicles being pulled over, it even alludes to the majority being out of state.

At this point I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and trust that you just did not watch the video...........

So, if I may, there are some questions you can now answer, as this thread DOES include passanger vehicles, as in the G6 you alluded to.

Parker

reply to post by ParkerCramer


As far as personal vehicles go, there has to be RS or PC to stop the vehicle. During the stop the officer has to have evidence that there are drugs / money in the vehicle. The only way for that to occur is to get consent to search the vhicle, have a K-9 present to do a walk aorund on the outside of the vehicle and receive and affirmative hit, or have contraband in plain sight.

Absent any of that, it can be challeneged in court.

If they get into the vehicle legally, and find a large quantity of money the next question is is this yours, and did you know it was present in the vehicle.

A LOT of people who are transporting just the cash from a drug transaction say I have no idea where it came from, no idea who it belongs to, which at that point, under the law, its abandoned property. The people can still try to lay claim to the money, and will have to go through the process of claiming it.

Others dont claim it, or want anything to do with it, for their own reasons, including the funds being part of an illegal drug transaction. People can be charged for just transporting cash under conspiracy as well as RICO statutes at the federal level, but that rarely happens because of how these investigations and prosecutions work.

The people who have money seized are more than welcome to file a lawsuit against the department who seized it. There is nothing stopping them from doing that.

I wonder why they dont....

reply to post by Xcathdra


X, may I call you that??

In my opinion, herein lies the problem B/W LEO and the average Joe...................we are asking for your opinion on the incidents in the video, we are not asking you to justify it.

Watch the video, and if you believe the investigators are lying, then provide proof.
If you have no reason to doubt their reportong then comment on what is happening down there.

I don't believe anyone here believes that this should be happening, and I believe you are debating from that point..that it should not be happening, because its against the law, but, the fact that its against the law does not negate the fact that it MAY be happening.

I also disagree with your last statement, "If anyone disagrees with having their assets seized they can file a lawsuit"

To me, I heard Tough, if you don't like it sue us. That should never be the case if you truly believe what you wrote earlier about "working for the people"

Now, once again, can you comment on the statement in the video of passanger vehicles being pulled over, and being asked, without ANY probable cause, as far as I could see in the video, "Do you have any large sums of cash in the vehicle"

Please do not assume their was probable cause, take your own advice and comment on what the video shows only.

Thank You, and I hope I did not come across to strong.

Parker

Originally posted by Xcathdra



The people who have money seized are more than welcome to file a lawsuit against the department who seized it. There is nothing stopping them from doing that.

I wonder why they dont....

This in my opinion is the GAP between LEO and citizen.

the person who had their cash siezed is from out of state, was travelling to a family funeral, they do not have a credit card, they brought cash....................now they have to borrow money just to have gas for the trip back home, and YOU want to know why they do not travel back to a different state, hire an out of state attorney to sue a govt, agency, who will drag the case on for years??????????????????????????????????????????????

THIS IS THE REASON WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE STATUS QUO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Common sense, common decency

Parker

reply to post by ParkerCramer


They arent required to turn the cash over, and should have refused. If the officers forced the issue, then by all means nail their asses to the wall. But you cant put a blanket view on all law enforcement in this area.

As I said.. there is different criteria when dealing with non commercial vehicles.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by ParkerCramer

 

They arent required to turn the cash over, and should have refused. If the officers forced the issue, then by all means nail their asses to the wall. But you cant put a blanket view on all law enforcement in this area.

As I said.. there is different criteria when dealing with non commercial vehicles.

they arent required to turn their cash over, just refuse.................................Are YOU kidding me, refuse an officers order....................how do you handle that????????????????

If you want me to believe that is truly how you feel, then the gap between LEO and citizen just got larger..

That was the most idiotic response I've heard in a long time..................now I am not calling you an idiot, but that response was stupid....

now stop defending their actions, step up to the plate and ADMIT, this is not how you deal with the public.

I believed I was conversing with someone with morals, critical thought process, not just a blind follower, who cannot see fault with another who just happens to share work status, so please post something to make me believe that you would act any different then the officers in the video.

Parker

reply to post by ParkerCramer


I see you are intent on making this personal. At what point have I said I support officers who are corrupt? If you actually read my response, I said if any officers broke the law, their nail their asses to the wall.

Personally attacking me based on my response is a joke btw, and is used by people who dont understand what they are talking about.

As I have said before, go learn the law, how it works. Go learn Federal drug seizure laws and how they work. Go read and understand how your rights work, and understand that you are innocent until proven guilty, and you can refuse to submit to a search when law enforcement asks on a traffic stop.

If they have a valid legal reason to search your vehicle, they will do so if you refuse the consent. If they dont have a reason, they cant force the issue.

Grow some balls and say no when you are asked for a consent search.

As I said, learn the law, how it works, and this would be a lot more clear, and less like what it is, an attack on law enforcement by people who dont know what the hell they are talking about.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I agree.KNOW YOUR LAWS,regardless of of how screwed up they are.Change the Laws. Write to your representatives,so it stops.Make your friends and family's aware of the problem......Xcathdra,Thanks for your incite as a LEO. I think everyone needs to be aware of how these seizure laws work.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

I agree.KNOW YOUR LAWS,regardless of of how screwed up they are.Change the Laws. Write to your representatives,so it stops.Make your friends and family's aware of the problem......Xcathdra,Thanks for your incite as a LEO. I think everyone needs to be aware of how these seizure laws work.

There are laws I dont agree with, and have stated this in other threads as well. However, its not the job of the Police to decide if a law is good or bad. Its up to the citizens to take part in that process and decide what it is they want and how they think it should be enforced.

It reminds me of the argument people make about how cops send people to jail for marijuana possession. We have nothing to do with punsihment, and we are not even part of that branch of government.

Citizens MUST take part in government, hold your elected representatives accoun tible for what they do. If a law is being developed, go to city council meetings and be heard, or write your state or federal representative and speak your mind.

The notion that the government does not represent the people is only present because people become lazy and apathetic about the process. They make excuses as to why they dont participate in the process, then use that lack of participation as an excuse to blame the government for pasing laws you dont like.

Our founding fathers had it in mind that the citizens would be an active part of government.

A Citizen Government - Of the people, by the people and for the people.

This requires citizens to actually be a part of that process and to take part.

Its even more true now than it was 250+ years ago.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
I wonder why they dont....

According to the investigations and the forfeiture corruption report the cost to fight to get your property back exceeds the value of the property nearly 100% of the time.

Intentionally targeting out of state cars for this abuse ensures the expense in both time and fees will be so great as to discourage any action.

Originally posted by Xcathdra


I see you are intent on making this personal. At what point have I said I support officers who are corrupt? If you actually read my response, I said if any officers broke the law, their nail their asses to the wall.

Personally attacking me based on my response is a joke btw, and is used by people who dont understand what they are talking about.

What part of "I am not calling you idiotic, but the content of your post is idotic, do you not comprehend??

As I have said before, go learn the law, how it works. Go learn Federal drug seizure laws and how they work. Go read and understand how your rights work, and understand that you are innocent until proven guilty, and you can refuse to submit to a search when law enforcement asks on a traffic stop.

Did YOU watch any of the video?? Did you read ANY of the attached links?? You started this thread trying to state that this was ONLY concerning commercial vehicles, when it was pointed out to you that you were wrong, you never said oops, sorry, no you just changed your tactic, and started claiming "Just sue the police"

WE understand that we are innocent until proven guilty, it seems to be that it is individuals like you who cannot see the glaring illegal tactics used by the police in the video are the PROBLEM.

If they have a valid legal reason to search your vehicle, they will do so if you refuse the consent. If they dont have a reason, they cant force the issue.

the way you have invented reasons for defending these actions, "This only pertains to commercial vehicles", lends credence to the fact that not only will police officers invent probalbe cause, you certainly will bend the truth in order to attempt to maitain control.

Grow some balls and say no when you are asked for a consent search.

Perhaps, it is you that needs to grow a pair, read the rhetoric you are posting, truly attempt to understand the "Founding Fathers" and stand up to the corrupt officers and their tactics..............You might be amazed at how easy it is to sleep when you do something that is right, instead of just being a follower, and continuing to uphold the massive corruption that has infested the police departments of this Country.

As I said, learn the law, how it works, and this would be a lot more clear, and less like what it is, an attack on law enforcement by people who dont know what the hell they are talking about.

Perhaps,YOU should stop using the law to entrap, sieze assets unconstitutionally, create probable cause out of thin air and stop using the "I'm just doing my job" approach to defending your actions. If YOU believe a law is unconstitutional, dont wait for a corrupt legislative branch to fix it, STOP enforcing it..But, of course this will take some balls, which so far you have shown a lack.


Go ahead, stop being a follower, think for yourself and do whats right.

Parker

Got pulled over with $300 on me, on the way to go to best buy and buy a 300$ pair of headphones. They straight stole my money, saying there was probable cause that I was going to use the money for illegal means.

They searched me, found nothing but my money. I have no prior history of arrests for anything drug related. I had an out tag light.


This was a few years ago, they have been doing this aggressively for years now.

*Edit* This also happened to my dad about a year earlier... He was going to Aaron's Rent A Center to pay off what he owed in cash, and they straight up stole $1500. My dad was pulled over for speeding, and as such -- should of only gotten a speeding ticket. He got a speeding ticket (for $450, because he was speeding in a school zone, even though the school zone wasn't active) AND got his one thousand five hundred dollars stolen.

This is Lee County, Florida, by the way.

reply to post by Xcathdra

To be honest.. People need to learn how their government works - at all levels. They must take part in the political process instead of rubberstamping laws etc. Hold Government accountible.....

While I agree with what you are saying the fact remains that there are some VERY BAD APPLES in law enforcement and instead of acknowledging this it is covered up and swept under the carpet.

This is not based on ATS Bull Poop but personal experience. My father, who does not drink or swear and had no priors including traffic tickets was stopped for failure to use a turn signal at 2:00 AM on an empty highway. He was badly beaten. And no he was not black but a white male aged 61!

My neighbor, a forester reported drugs in the neighborhood. He was stopped and ticketed every time he tried to go into town. He had to do all his business in the next county. I would discount this accept the cop a couple doors down was ALSO disgusted with the corruption in our county and so was a second officer I talked to. The Forester in frustration called in the FEDS who raided the three dealers and the "patch" in the woods. I watched "the show"

More recently a "little Hitler" was harassing a couple young men. The father of one arrived home and stepped into the argument and told the officer to leave the premises (no laws broken BTW) - more abuse from the officer and her Captain waded into the "discussion" baking her up.

Unfortunately for the officer and her Captain who backed up her UNLAWFUL harassment the father is head of the state police so they both got the boot. Too bad that does not happen more often.


All it takes is one percent of the LEOs to use "excessive force" and be photographed doing so to leave a very bad impression. The fact that often the officers are REPEAT OFFENDERS and stay on as officers is guaranteed to look bad.