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Birthers: We Were Right. The BC is a FRAUD!!! Obama Lovers: Debunk THIS!

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posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by GhettoRice
reply to post by Runaway1977
 


Explain clearly what is not "Understood"? You seem to have a huge hate on and have provided nothing more than what you accosted the OP of doing.



Do you know the word "either?"
Huge hate on?
I am at a complete loss here.

I am not sure how to explain what I have asked be explained to me and if I seem hateful, I do apologize. I am just taking notice of a large number of threads on this topic wherein the author of said threads seems to have nary even a tenuous grasp on the concept. I see a gang forming though. Good on you for that I suppose.




posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:20 PM
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It's funny how two sides to the issue have emerged; Barak Obama supporters, and people that would like to find the truth.

I have one question for the former (BO supporters (it seems like your in love ): If your neighbor brought to your attention some evidence (x,y,z) that your wife may be cheating on you, would you sweep it under the rug and say "NOOOooo, not my wife", or would you maaaaybe ask her to explain x,y,z evidence?

Now I understand the "not my wife" thing may be your initial reaction, but when compelling evidence, something that can not be simply circumvented with an easy explaination is presented, I would hope you would change you tune.

How much evidence do you need to stop dismissing this? Your inability to even listen and/or critically think really is the most frustrating part.
edit on 17-5-2011 by SlyingFaucers because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by SlyingFaucers
 

Nice strawman to start with.

And your premise is fundamentally flawed because you seem to be confusing mere allegations, accusations and interpretations with evidence.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by Runaway1977
 


How much does Cointelpro pay nowdays? As you can see I am using your tactic of attacking the character instead of the information.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by SlyingFaucers
It's funny how two sides to the issue have emerged; Barak Obama supporters, and people that would like to find the truth.


You think anyone REALLY falls for this mind game anymore?

"If you support Obama, you dont want the truth; if you think the Birth Certificate is a fraud, then obviously you seek the truth. Hence all birthers must be the only ones who seek truth."

I can't STAND Obama, and I know the birth certificate is genuine.

So, no, birthers, you were all WRONG, it is NOT a fraud, and there is 0% damning evidence.
edit on 17-5-2011 by alphabetaone because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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Half the images of the long form BC floating around on these blogs have different exif data, showing some of them at least are variations of an earlier image. And those images are based on a PDF file released on the web, which in itself is only a scan of a document.

So how can any of these so-called "document experts" make a ruling about the legitimacy of a BC without ever having accessed or even looked at the original paper document?

Another problem is the PDF file is based on an microfiche scan which was then computer generated. It was NOT based on a scan of a original paper document, which apparently no longer exists. The green background for instance was placed later by software by Hawaii's vital records office.

If I was an unscrupulous "birther", I might take an image of the long form BC, add the very details that "debunk" it using Photoshop, then go public with my "discovery". Use the original PDf from the WH, half the details this article tries to point out are not present as he would indicate, which makes me think the "debunker" himself is pulling a little forgery.

WND is fueling 80% of birtherism as they have a book to sell, and this is just hyping the book. (The other 20% comes from Fox "news" which is using it for political gain for their party)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:28 PM
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I never had a hair of doubt about how the birth certificate was forged. If it was so easy to supply, then why did it take Donald Trump and three years in office to release it?


SeraphNB



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:30 PM
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I am glad that we are finally getting some where! I am still not satisfied yet. We need to force the courts to hear the case and then hang him! Along with his prejudice wife. Then ship the kids back to kenya, and put the rest of his administration on trial! That is what I would call JUSTICE. Oh I forgot, one more thing. All you who called me and other birthers names should provide apologies or be banned. Something has to be done about this. If we let this get swiped under the rug then I give up on the fight for freedom!



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by aptness
 


So I take it you decided to read the OPs post? Oh, more shoot from the hip speculation and distraction.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by xyankee
I am glad that we are finally getting some where! I am still not satisfied yet. We need to force the courts to hear the case and then hang him!


And, when they find him innocent for providing a real document, I'll keep the messages copied such that, they can hang YOU for treason for calling on a serving president to be executed.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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Like someone once told me; it's a done deal, get over it. Hard to swallow, yes. He's in, he's staying in and ain't nothin' you can do about it now.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by GhettoRice
reply to post by Runaway1977
 


How much does Cointelpro pay nowdays? As you can see I am using your tactic of attacking the character instead of the information.


You are confused or upset. It is understandable. That is a large hat of broken eggs at your feet. I would be upset too. Hopefully the irony of crying character assassination after doing nothing but attacking my character was intentional for I would hate to think anyone is stupid enough to call names then cry "namecaller!"


Did you understand what you read in the OP?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by SlyingFaucers
It's funny how two sides to the issue have emerged; Barak Obama supporters, and people that would like to find the truth.


You think anyone REALLY falls for this mind game anymore?

"If you support Obama, you dont want the truth; if you think the Birth Certificate is a fraud, then obviously you seek the truth. Hence all birthers must be the only ones who seek truth."

I can't STAND Obama, and I know the birth certificate is genuine.

So, no, birthers, you were all WRONG, it is NOT a fraud, and there is 0% damning evidence.
edit on 17-5-2011 by alphabetaone because: (no reason given)







posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


Good point, NONE of us can confirm it's validity, only speculate on it being a forgery as NO PERSON has the real paper document. Most on ats are aware the GOVT LIES at every step of the game, why would this be the exception to the rule?

Example: there is a teapot orbiting saturn, NO ONE can confirm this, we can only speculate, BUT TRUST ME the Govt told me its true.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by Americanist
 


What are you replying to me for? Why are you showing me videos I will never watch. I have the inside information, I'm not watching joey the clown who made a youtube video in his basement on a macintosh pro and thought youtube is "really cool" then puffed out back....

GTFO



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by Americanist
 


I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS
I have already seen these videos on ATS

Maybe if someone posts them again they will become more convincing. Perhaps if they are posted enough times, they become new again.

This looks much like a sickness from here.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by SlyingFaucers
So I take it you decided to read the OPs post?
I did until I realized it is basically a compilation of everything that has been posted here extensively.

Have you read it? Can you tell us exactly what this document proves? Something that isn’t just an accusation or allegation?


Oh, more shoot from the hip speculation and distraction.
If your case is as solid as you’re claiming it is no amount of ‘distraction’ will derail it.

So when do you think you will be able to remove Obama from the presidency with this ‘evidence,’ and inevitably put Biden in charge?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by aptness
 


Good idea, lets stick to the points of the OP.

1. Curved and non-curved type.
No rebuttal.
2. There is a white haloing around all the type on the form.
No rebuttal.
3. The Obama Certificate is loaded with both binary and grayscale letters.
No rebuttal.
4. The Sequential Number is a fraud.
No rebuttal.
5. Two different colors and font sizes in Form box 22 and 20 Date Accepted by Reg. General.
No rebuttal.
6. Multiple layers in the PDF file from the White House.
No rebuttal.

Conclusion: Fraud.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:48 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions




Mod Note: Kindly refrain from removing staff edits.


edit on 5/17/2011 by maria_stardust because: (no reason given)


+4 more 
posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:51 PM
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Look, I have no opinions about Obama. I remove myself from the "birthers vs. others" war. But, I MUST say this...

This topic is a huge misunderstanding after another. A LOT of the issues in the OP's source were pointed out by me long ago on ATS, however, I explained why the birth certificate is NOT "forged" so nobody listened to me.

The OP's source even posted the thing that can explain this all....



(A) at a minimum, shall require certification of the birth certificate by the State or local governmentcustodian of record that issued the certificate, and shall require the use of safety paper or an alternative,equally secure medium, the seal of the issuing custodian of record, and other features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or otherwise duplicating the birth certificate for fraudulent purposes;
(i) computerizing their birth and death records;
(ii) developing the capability to match birth and death records within each State and among the States; and
(iii) noting the fact of death on the birth certificates of deceased persons.


Look, Obama's original long form did NOT have any "features designed to prevent tampering". It was just a white piece of paper with black text in a book. That is why SECURITY FEATURES WERE ADDED BEFORE THE RELEASE.

The green background (safety paper) of Obama's certificate was added according to law.

However, it was NOT just "printed on safety paper" because there was nothing to "print". The certificate was not digitized and printable. It was just a piece of paper in a book.

Someone had to scan the original certificate, then digitally remove the white background.

Perfectly removing the white background of a black/gray and white SCANNED IMAGE is not an easy task. That is why there is a white halo around all the black/gray text. That white halo around the text that the OP's source points at is caused by a "low tolerance" setting on a "background eraser" computer algorithm. Increasing the tolerance will remove more of the white halo... however, on old images that were scanned, increasing the tolerance will also remove much needed parts of the text and will even distort the text in an unreadable fashion because of gradients along the edges of text. So that is why they didn't remove the white halo... to retain readability and clarity of the scanned documents text.

After they removed the white background they added the green security background pattern DIGITALLY. They did NOT just print the certificate on safety paper. If they printed the document on safety paper there would be no "white halo" around the text because printers don't print white. The white halos indicate that the green background was DIGITALLY ADDED. This makes sense because if they had to add this security feature to 1000's of documents it would be best to do it automatically and digitally instead of by hand.

That green background was added BY LAW.... So OF COURSE the document has been "digitally edited", however, that does not prove forgery AT ALL. It actually supports the idea the document was real and scanned and digitally updated according to law.

I believe the State / Hospital was responsible for digitally adding the security pattern to the certificate, and if they did it then it is perfectly LEGAL.

It was even signed as being an "abstract" on the bottom, so it is legal.

A birth certificate can be printed on toilet paper, and as long as the information is correct, and it has the security features and stuff according to law, and it is signed by authorities that certify the information is correct, it will be legal....

This birth certificate issue is getting out of hand because of peoples lack of knowledge and lack of reason. It's much easier for people to see it was digitally updated and claim it is fake than it is to actually understand how the document was digitally updated by authorized people according to law....

Just because the document was digitally updated, it doesn't prove any fraud, or that any of the actual data was changed. Sorry to the "birthers", but I think you are on the wrong track. There is no real reason to think the President wasn't born in the USA. Some of the "evidence" that "birthers" are using actually supports the idea that the birth certificate is real, and is an old document that has undergone changes required by law.

edit on 17-5-2011 by gift0fpr0phecy because: (no reason given)
edit on 17-5-2011 by gift0fpr0phecy because: (no reason given)





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