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Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?

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posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by neformore
 



I think no more fair than fining an alcoholic for drinking.
We will need chocolate police and it would be a chocolaty mess.


I volunteer to be part of the chocolate police and will do my
best to see that all adhere to the laws of the land.
Pardon me while I take my break in the "evidence" room




posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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No it's not fair!! Whats next? We need to keep these people out of our lives!!



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 


I was generalizing in my comment. The point I was trying to make was if we applied a high tax on UNHEALTHY food - (ie, fast food, soda, snack food, candy, etc) - as in food with no nutritional value - and eliminated taxes on fresh vegetables, fruits, etc - then maybe lower income people would be able to afford healthy food.

As it stands, if you have $5 and are hungry... It's cheaper to run through Burger King than it is to go to the grocery store and buy lettuce, carrots, and a tomato.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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The idea that people on low-incomes buy unhealthy, processed food out of necessity is a myth.

The reasons that people prefer to eat fast food and other unhealthy options are:

1. Because it takes less time and effort to prepare.
2. Because it tastes nice.

Or, to put it in a less Politically Correct way, they do so out of laziness and self-indulgence.


500 grams of raisins, for example, costs me less than £1, and provides me with far more calories and nutrition than a medium portion of fries from McDonald's would ( although I haven't been there for years ).

But, from a purely hedonistic, self-gratifying perspective, I can't deny that fast food tastes nicer than raisins, so if I were selfish, reckless and inconsiderate, I'd also probably go for that option 9 times out of 10.


edit on 18-5-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 


Yes, there are some lazy poor people. There are a lot of lazy rich people too.

Here in the US, if I want to feed my family (my mom, partner, and myself) from a fast food joint, I can do so for about $15. (Going off the dollar menu, I could do it for $10.) If I went to the grocery store and bought 3 (on sale) pork chops ($5), a head of romaine lettuce ($3), carrots, cucumbers, and a tomato ($6), maybe some squash and onions as a side ($4), and a pineapple for a healthy dessert ($3), I would have spent $21.

I am not defending lazy people who take advantage of the system. But compare grocery store prices to fast food prices. (Personally, I think that most fast food is disgusting, but that's me. I grow my own veggies, etc.) If you are near broke, chances are fast food is cheaper. Hell, you can go to Cici's pizza and get all you can eat pizza for $5 per person. Make healthy food tax free, and tax the hell out of unhealthy food.
edit on 18-5-2011 by journey2010 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-5-2011 by journey2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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Why not tax the food like Doritos or Coca-Cola the same way smokes and booze are taxed. Or, better yet, tax the corporations that put this filth on the shelves.

When food does more harm than good then it should be treated the same way as a drug.

Wouldnt it be hilarious to see Twinkies as a Schedule I drug?

I can name a couple Schedule I drugs that are less addictive and less destructive to the body than Twinkies.

Why not tax Hostess? And Sara Lee? And Frito Lay? And Kraft? My goodness theres a lot of companies making food bombs.

Once again, we socialize the negative costs of our society among the regular people while the rich get tax breaks for slowly mudering us with their poisons.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:38 AM
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Is it a requirement for society to take care of people who don't take care of themselves?

Is is fact that obesity leads to all kinds of medical problems. Why should society have to pay extra because you are obese?

When you depend on public money, why should you be able to maintain a lifestyle that is unhealthy.

I also believe, but cannot prove, that employers look for people that are reasonably fit.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


I've always supported the idea of refusing treatment to aggressive and abusive drunkards with non-life-threatening conditions.

Most of these people are admitted to hospitals with cuts or broken bones that have been caused by drunken brawling or getting into a needless accident.


The first action that should be taken in regards to someone who is a diagnosed alcoholic is to admit them for treatment for their addiction.

As it stands now, they get money through the DLA, which, of course, they just spend on more alcohol and perpetuate their condition indefinitely through this wasteful cycle. All the while, they are more prone to exacerbating alcohol-related conditions and creating new problems that require costly NHS treatment.


I'm all for the welfare state, but it needs a complete overhaul and modernisation in the areas where it's just not working.

The current idea of mindlessly trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole to fit a pre-conceived, unworkable ideology is just crazy. It'd be far more effective and fair to try to locate a round peg.


edit on 18-5-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by Aisling
 


I agree with those points.

But politicians and government workers are being paid by the taxpayers and there are a lot of FAT POLITICIANS and government workers.
So, I guess they should get fined until they lose weight and set an example instead of making rules for us that they all too frequently exclude themselves from.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 


To all the people who support fining the obese or withdrawing Dr. services:

Do you understand that what you are really saying is that anyone who accepts welfare or socialized healthcare or ever a Dr. services, then that person is a slave, whose body and property is owned by the state to do with as they will.

What you are saying is that since you contribute tax dollars to the program, then you should have the right to tell everyone who accepts those services (including yourself) how to live?

How long do you think it will be before it is your turn to be "denormalized"

TIRED OF CONTROL FREAKS



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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As an obese person myself(around 235 lbs, not circus fat), it's not something people choose to be, it's a disease, like alcoholism. It's like in a way, when people say gays choose to be gay, and a gay would say, why would I choose to be this way? Well, why would someone choose to be obese and miserable? It's a disease, based on years of food abuse, and resultant in hormonal problems and addiction.

I don't think fat people should be fined, but, I do agree with another poster, that "crack foods" should be heavily taxed, or their certain "drug like" ingrediants, like sugar and flour, mainly.

Yes, it would make the price of donuts and macaroni rise, but maybe this would help people buy more healthy foods. Sure, for die-hard carb addicts, it won't matter, just like smokers, but maybe for those not so affected, and their children, it may be a good thing for the future.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by adigregorio

Welcome to America, land of the moral pusher.


Amen!! Well said. I'm always amazed at the number of people on here who post like they know what the "perfect" lifestyle is. Not a single person on this thread or website leads the perfect, healthy life. Why? Because we don't know what that is. Each and every individual is just that...individual. People's genes cause them to react differently to different situations. There is no one perfect lifestyle and that is why govt. should not be allowed to dictate what sort of lifestyle a person leads.

Leave fat people and smokers alone. They will die just like the "healthy" people.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by grumpydaysleeper
Sometimes people are fat because of the medications they take. Ever try to diet when you spend more time on prednisone than you do off of it?

edit on 17-5-2011 by grumpydaysleeper because: spelling


Exactly, and has anyone quit smoking recently? Gained weight? Why? Because smoking is an appetite suppressant. LOL in sarcasm, let's fine em for smoking, then lets fine em for getting fat when they quit smoking.

Basically lets just fine em till they die!

ugh!

Harm none
Peace



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by journey2010
Yes, there are some lazy poor people. There are a lot of lazy rich people too.

Here in the US, if I want to feed my family (my mom, partner, and myself) from a fast food joint, I can do so for about $15. (Going off the dollar menu, I could do it for $10.) If I went to the grocery store and bought 3 (on sale) pork chops ($5), a head of romaine lettuce ($3), carrots, cucumbers, and a tomato ($6), maybe some squash and onions as a side ($4), and a pineapple for a healthy dessert ($3), I would have spent $21.


I'm not saying that ''poor people are lazy''. I'm just saying that those who attempt to justify their unhealthy food choices because of their monetary restrictions are doing so because they are lazy and self-indulgent.

In the food examples that you list above, I'm sure that you could remove $6 worth of the healthy foods and still provide a more nutritious and filling meal than the fast food alternative.

Let's be honest: if fries and big macs tasted like broccoli and asparagus, then we wouldn't be seeing too many people going into fast-food restaurants for their meals.

The fact of the matter is that most unhealthy foods taste nice, and - more often than not - taste nicer than a comparable healthy alternative that costs the same.


Originally posted by journey2010
I am not defending lazy people who take advantage of the system. But compare grocery store prices to fast food prices. (Personally, I think that most fast food is disgusting, but that's me. I grow my own veggies, etc.) If you are near broke, chances are fast food is cheaper. Hell, you can go to Cici's pizza and get all you can eat pizza for $5 per person.


I disagree.

There are equally affordable healthy alternatives. As previously mentioned, raisins are very nutritious, filling and contain plenty of calories. While, of course, I would recommend a much more varied diet than just eating raisins, that is just one example of a cheap, relatively healthy food that people can eat.

Healthy eating doesn't have to all be about fruit and vegetables ( as they can be slightly pricey ) - but even a loaf of bread and some butter costs less than fast food - and it lasts longer.


Originally posted by journey2010
Make healthy food tax free, and tax the hell out of unhealthy food.


I agree with this.


I think that unhealthy, fatty foods should be taxed in the same way as alcohol and cigarettes are.


edit on 18-5-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


We have been forcing smokers to pay incredibly high taxes on their drug of choice to supposedly cover the costs of the health burden to the states, this really isnt much different, except that in this case, the people being taxed or fined are not really earning the money being taken from them.

I dont know if its "right" or not. I tend to think a better strategy would have been to make "food stamps" not cover whole types of food. Like soda and other "junk" food like cookies, ice cream, candy, etc. It food stamps only allowed you to buy fresh and frozen fruits, vegetables, meats, whole grain breads and cereals, etc., you could get a significant change in diet without going this route.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by kinglizard
KLF14 gene

Yesterday a study was published that confirmed obesity, diabetes and cholesterol are controlled by the KLF14 gene....which means obesity has much to do with genetics. It would be like punishing those that don't meet some idealistic standard...think 1935-1940's Germany.

www.kcl.ac.uk...


Ahh but let's ignore this because it does not help people bash on others or legally steal from them. We have an unhealthy group of people in this world who do not feel good about themselves unless they are bashing on someone else, I say let's tax them.

Just another study, recently 3 gut types were found, one which increases the likelihood of obesity.

www.nature.com...


Just as there are a few major blood types that divide up the world, so too, a study has found, there are just three types of gut-microbe populations. The result could help to pinpoint the causes of obesity and inflammatory bowel disease, and to personalize medicine.



Harm None
Peace



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Your comment on making food stamps NOT cover junk food is a great idea - one that I have thought of many times. The problem with this is that healthy alternatives are more expensive than junk food. Sometime would need to change with the prices of healthy food before this could happen, or people would not be able to afford enough healthy food for a month. It's a classic catch 22.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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If they were to do that, they must at least close down all fast-food "restaurants" within the state and promote organic farming and grass-fed raising of cattle with more small, family-owned stores providing real food.


Otherwise, they're just going to make more money.
edit on 18-5-2011 by SinkingSun because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 


I agree to a certain point about the choices of food that poorer people tend to buy is out of lazyness and selfishness, I would also argue its down to a lack of education and a bombardment from childhood of advertising. From fast food companies and the food industry in general, unhealthy products are marketed as a healthy option. Think about things like cheesy string and Sunny Delight, massive amounts of money goes into marketing those products as a healthy choice for parents to get their kids. They dont inform the parents that drinking Sunny Delight is just as unhealthy as downing a bottle of full fat coke.

So the consumer is also up against a massive multi million pound industry that tries to fool them into thinking bad food is good.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 


I agree that my meal example was a big meal. To be fair, someone addicted to fast food would probably need a larger meal to feel full, as they are used to 1200-1500 calorie meals.

And yes, there are some affordable health foods.

My challenge to you would be this... My grandmother is disabled. She doesn't drive, (and subsequently doesn't go to fast food places.) However, she survives, alone, on $600 a month disability (she was born disabled and has never been able to work), and $11 a month in food stamps. ELEVEN DOLLARS.

Her rent is $300, (that's subsidized rent for low income seniors). Her cable bill (her only entertainment) is $100/month - the cheapest available. We tried bunny ears, she barely could get one station. Her phone bill is $20/month. And she pays about $100/month for transportation. That's $520/month. This leaves $80/month for anything else, plus $11 in food stamps. Let's suppose she never buys anything in her life except rent, cable, phone, transportation, and food. She has $91 for a month's worth of food.

My challenge is this... Can you go to the grocery store and buy 30 days of food for yourself, and be completely healthy, for $91?

She is lucky in that there are people to help her. (People = me.) The rest of my family has no money of their own to share. I am not defending them - many of them are the lazy type that live off the system. But I am talking about her. She hasn't done anything wrong, she was born disabled.

This conversation can easily become much more than fining obese people. But nothing in life is as straight forward as that. To find a suitable answer, many things need to be looked at.

In this example, I stress my reasoning for raising the cost of junk food, and lowering the cost of healthy food. I could go on... but I have probably rambled enough...



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