Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?

reply to post by Unity_99


the deliberately fat people i said. key being they are doing it on purpose or in a spiral of addiction to numb out using food. most need help to stop just like dope. i appreciate your enthusiasm but your "enlightened" ego seems to be full of holes you cant put it in any finite way.
good try though.

people can only be separated by geography for now. hyper-dimensional cellular mitosis, every single individual destiny is secured, you are not doomed unless you want to be.

see the universe as it is, and the earth for what it is, a host for souls gaining experience for advancement earth is as much prison and hell as it is heaven its all in your mind. everything is vibration. as far as uneducated. you seem to be judging more than you can even see. you must be special lol exception to discovery, enlightened dillusion syndrome =]] EDS

Originally posted by neformore


Interesting story this. Do we force people who refuse to look after themselves to do so?

Is it a requirement of society to stay healthy and fit?

Should people have the freedom of choice to eat and drink and abuse their bodies as they see fit - ignoring the advice of health care professionals without fear of reprisals from the health system?

Is this an opportunistic tax - and what are the implications of this thing going further, across the whole of the states?

Also - whats next? Extra tax on smokers? Drinkers? People with a sweet tooth? Where does it end?




www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Of course it isn't, any more than it's a requirement of the State to provide health care, or any more than a requirement to have the State be involved in "end-of-life" care, otherwise known as "death panels". See it all makes sense now, whether it's welfare recipients being fined or death panels telling you when to die. That is the power of the State that this admin is pushing and that has been growing for several decades.
People ridiculed Sarah Palin over the "death panels" comment and O supporters vehemently deny this aspect of the health plan.
Yah Romneycare in Mass preceded the Obamacare in the Fed govt.
The real point here is that the State is all powerful. You see the people who want money and programs from the State don't want that other bad stuff. But not to worry, it's a trend in the private sector as well, so you see, it eventually won't matter. That is one thing I was horrified about in a class one day, we were discussing the role of a business in supplying health care for people who are overweight or who smoke. One of the issues is the health liability to a business on people who are unhealthy. People may lose work days due to health issues, and the business has to cover itself, and then also pay out for higher premiums. We all know that insurance co make you pay higher premiums for at risk health(you know, like getting OLDER).
The State views people as "useless eaters" who work for the Supreme State, as Marx taught. As such, the State must take care of these uesless eaters. The State views parents as unnecessary and stupid, unable to take care of their own children. This is really where the "Rights of the Child" originated, and it's not true compassion, it's the State wanting more power.

reply to post by hadriana


I saw this with my mother-in-law who took Prednisone for arthritis. Let me just say that this is why in my opinion the State should never be involved in health care.

reply to post by Unity_99

People need to #1. Stop judging others over anything. They have no right to even look at another person, think a bad thought, unless they have something good, positive and loving to say. PERIOD.

You really have a good point. There should be only compassion for the one who cannot control the body. In China, the big buddha with the big belly is considered to be an symbol of good luck and prosperity, because having enough money means you can eat more. Besides, have you seen how much rice those people offer their Buddhas?
Controlling our thoughts of others is just as important as controlling our body fat, and we do make karma with our thoughts as well as deeds.

Well if they are the ones that let themselves get like that then yes.

Why should I have to pay a tax on sugary foods just because people can't control their junk intake? Why do I have to have no supersize fries just because people can't control how much they eat?

I could go on and on but the fact is you are responsible for what goes in your body, nobody else. IF you want to eat fatty foods and become grossly obese where it affects doctors and such who want to help you then pay a fine. If smokers have to pay more cause they smoke, what is the difference? Both know they are putting toxins in their body.

I have nothing against over weight people but i get a little tired of their "oh poor me" routine because they let themselves get so big. It is not my problem and yet people always feel sorry for them. I do not. I know not all obese people are obese due to food intake but the majority it is.

Yes, if they are on Government assitance, the Government has every right to tell them how to run their lives.

If you want independence, get off your collective behinds and get a job. Then you can eat what you want. IN the meantime, if the Government's dime is feeding you, then sure, the Government should have a right to say what you are eating.

reply to post by neformore


Totally absurd for obvious reasons. Who decides what over weight is and how long will it be before that changes. Its just another way for the DHS to get into the lives of people. The feds are screaming that they have to make changes to Medicaid and Medicare it is costing too much. Start with people considered over weight what ever that is see how it goes then start charging for other things. Talking about DHS my grand daughters school just had a dentist go around to all the schools checking childrens teeth. The school sends a notice home that she has to go the dentist that visited the schools because she had a cavity in her baby tooth. When she got there even though she is covered by medicare her mother had to pay $50. Then the dentist said that she had to have surgery at the hospital and put under in order to fill it. I would hate to think how much a baby tooth is going to end up costing the taxpayer. I asked my daughter if she told the doctor if anything happens due to general anethesia she was suing the he%% of of them. They will find a way to control us all and fine us all. If they don't kill us all in the mean time.

Originally posted by babybunnies
Yes, if they are on Government assitance, the Government has every right to tell them how to run their lives.

If you want independence, get off your collective behinds and get a job. Then you can eat what you want. IN the meantime, if the Government's dime is feeding you, then sure, the Government should have a right to say what you are eating.

Be careful what you wish for. There is also a business trend in forcing people to behave certain ways to get the benefits. Do you want your corporation telling you you can be fat or not, smoke or not, because they pay your group insurance rates? It's the same thing, public or private.

I'm assuming most people who don't live in America, or Americans who have family abroad, or spend time abroad, all know the reason Americans are the fattest country in the world. It's pretty simple for anyone who has lost a lot of weight. When European family members visit, they are shocked at the portions in this country. They are shocked that salads aren't eaten at most meals(many americans go weeks without a salad). They are shocked at how few fruits and vegetables we eat. They are shocked parents don't take the time to cook and prepare a meal for their children, or family, an instead opt for fast food or quicker proccessed options. They are shocked at the low levels of activity exhibited on a daily basis. But really, going back to it again, it's the portions which are completely out of control.

Deny ignorance? How much more ignorant can some of you get than looking at the statistics, the obesity epedemic in the states, the change in overall health the last few decades for the worse, and still think WE are not responsible, that fat people shouldn't take any blame, and that genetics and thyroid problems are the reason, therefor nobody should be held accountable.

Funny how so many also use finances as an excuse. Why can my wifes relatives living in a rural village in northern Bulgaria, living on less than 150 levs per months, eat so much healthier? Is money really the problem when we're eating twice the portions we are supposed to at a sitting? That we throw away more food than any other country? We buy the newest iphone, ipad, 3d tv, PS3, etc., yet can't afford a few apples and banana's every weeks? Do you realize how incredibly stupid and out of touch that sounds to the rest of the world? Fat people needing motorized scooters to get around the supermarket? People buying so much food they ask for help out to their car, but can't afford a freaking salad? Have time to watch all these reality tv shows and surf the internet for hours but can't find 20 minutes every other day to go for a jog? Don't want to exercise because your knee hurts or your back hurts, eventhough it's the extra weight your carrying which is causing the pain in the first place? Instead of losing the weight people get knee replacements, get on pain killers, and look at every other option except looking in the mirror and correcting their lifestyle. Now lapband surgery is covered by most PPO's? Yeah, I'm sure the rest of the world completely understands the need for lapband surgery instead of going for a freaking jog and not eating a pound of pasta every night.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Unity_99
People need to #1. Stop judging others over anything. They have no right to even look at another person, think a bad thought, unless they have something good, positive and loving to say. PERIOD.

There is right and wrong answer.

Telling fat people how they can lose weight is not "judging them", its helping them.

Many do judge overweight people. It can be very subtle. Anythng which taxes people for being obese would also be a judgement. Personally, I find it to be a disgrace in a Libertarian sense that we are having a dialogue on taxing people like this. It's outrageous. Education is the key, real education and not the Big Agra type. Why do we have to fight over la raza ethnic studies when we should be teaching nutrition? I say let's have mandatory nutrition courses as part of biology/science requirement, and make sure that all MDS also have to have their share of nutrition education.

reply to post by MysticPearl


Due to inflation lately, Americans may have to start choosing between clothing detergent and fresh fruit.

(I saw a 5 dollar rise in my favorite laundry detergent in just two weeks time.)

Originally posted by babybunnies
Yes, if they are on Government assitance, the Government has every right to tell them how to run their lives.

If you want independence, get off your collective behinds and get a job. Then you can eat what you want. IN the meantime, if the Government's dime is feeding you, then sure, the Government should have a right to say what you are eating.

Don;t you Canadians have Socialized medicine? So based on what you just said, you already have NO Independence, so the govt would already have the right to control everything you eat, drink, and smoke.

Oh yes, and how can you fine a person for not dieting? That would mean you have to oversee that person's diet to know what, when, and how much they are eating. Is this where we want to go in our society? Having Big Brother monitoring our caloric intake? Orrrr even food rationing? You know this is where it is going. This is the whole purpose of all the UN Agenda 21 and NGOS being involved in all this stuff. They want centralized control over all the resources of the earth, including water and food. And de-population is the ultimate goal. They won't care about your weight, as they would rather you were just dead so you don't take up their alloted space, water, food, air.

This is deplorable! How can anyone legislate lifestyle,health or morality? What one person thinks is wrong is not too someone else. Being overweight is not always a persons fault. For example I am a little heavy maybe 20 lbs overweight. There is no medical cause yet I don't overeat, I exercise when I can, (it is hard with a lot of dizzy spells.); for some reason my body needs sugar to balance out those dizzy spells. I have been to DRs and aside from known medical conidtions there is no reason for me to be over weight. Sure I do go to eat a couple times a week but I make healthier choices such as a baked potato or turkey burger.
My theory is my body is comfortable at my current weight therefore I don't lose nor do I gain by much. Sometimes I do lose a little weight. I do not feel fat at all and actually feel comfortable with my body. When I was young I was 93 lbs at 5 ft 3 the dr was scared I was going to get real sick if I didnt gain weight. I am never told if I don't lose weight I will get sick or have health problems.
When I shop for my goceries I make healthier choices. I check on the package for sugar, fat, carbs and caloried content. I do not eat 100% healthy but I don't eat red meat nor do I eay any fresh vegetables unless they are organic. Unforunately this means I eat little vegetables since organic is twice as high. I could get 10 banquets meals for $10 as opposed to one healthy meal for $10. Poor people are overweight because junk food is cheaper. Turkey meat costs $3.50 per pound as opposed to beef which is like $1.50 per pound. Chicken is like $3.99-$6.99. Hot dogs are a very cheap meat at $1 -$2.50. Next time you are in the gocery store look at the real healthy food compared to the less healthy food. A few years a go I started to eat healthier while food prices have gone up at the same time due to eating healthier foods my grocery bill has doubled. Sure I still throw a few of the cheap foods just so I can eat everyday. I have to balance it out between expenisive healthy foods and inexpenisve non healthy foods.
BY the way calling overweight people "fatties" is just juvenile.

reply to post by neformore


Doesn't surprise me...

I mean the states have a lot of things that are illegal to ingest.

No its not fair... people should do w/e they want to their own bodies as long as it doest harm others...

just my .02

reply to post by dreamseeker


Your post is so sensible. Nothing extreme. I am a big fan of not being extreme. When I was younger I could eat pretty much anything I wanted and not gain a lot of weight. In the last 10 years, I have seen a change in my metabolism, so for the first time I have to be more careful. You are right, all the organic stuff is more expensive. Go to a health food store and see how expensive it gets. That is one reason why poorer people do lose out, because whole grain cereals from the HFS are more expensive than the empty cereals put out by the big agra companies.
Also, fresh fruits and veggies do not last long in the fridge. If you do not consume them right away, they will end up in the trash.

I don't think anyone is talking about fining people for being 20-30lbs overweight, or for having a burger. That's rediculous. I've harped on personal responsibility, but that's different than government fining you.

The question is how to handle people who live such any unhealthy lifestyle that they become a burden on the healthcare system, that their obesity has led to other health problems, and the rest have to pick up the tab, or tha they can't afford the medical expenses which are a result of an unhealthy lifestyle. Everyone deserves freedom of choice, as long as it doesn't affect others. Not being able to afford med expenses due to an unhealthy lifestyle affects others.

Adding children into the mix is a slippery slope. The majority of the time (90%), when I see a 12 yr old who is 40lbs overweight, who's fault is that, and who should take responsibility? I'm going with the parents.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I end up getting canned vegetables which have added salt.
Also people with untreated depression may eat more or at least eat more comfort foods such as ice cream,candy etc. Will they exempt those with depression?
The more and more I see articles like this I am disgusted. A Dr has no right to tell a person how to live. Drs really have a god complex at times. This will really give them more freedom to take away privilages or punish patients. I had a panic attack in an office once and my drivers license was taken away from me by a DR. I was not driving at the time and did not cause an accident. He just felt since I was nervous in enclosed spaces without windows that I couldn't possibly drive a car with windows and doors. I did get my license back but meet a lot more Drs with god complexes along the way.
The government,business or anyone who has any type of authority has really gotten out of hand. When do we finally say ENOUGH. I don't like cigeratte smoke but I feel what they did to the smokers was wrong as well. Sure I can see not wanting second hand smoke in small bars or restrants but people do have a choice to not go in.
Back to the main issue who is too decide who is too overweight? The DR or the government?

reply to post by MysticPearl


To be fair though 20-30 lbs overweight is still overweight. I know that the older I get the chances my weight will go up with age is pretty likely. All my family seemed to put on some weight after 40. This may put me in that catergory of 40 lbs overweight. IS that too much then? Who is too say? Where does it stop? My whole point is that I eat as healthy as I can and do the best I can yet I am still overweight. This could be case for others as well. I had a friend who struggled with weight issues all her life. The only way she could be height weight proportionate was too starve herself and exercise 2 hours every single day. Finally she decided her happiness was more important so she went back to eating reasonably and exercising moderately. She went back to her old weight which was about 50 lbs over her ideal body weight. She was so happy so who is to say what makes someone else happy?

See, this is rediculous. Overweight is one thing, morbidly obese is another. When you need money from the Gov't just to make it from point A to point B, whether in the form of scooter subsidization, painkillers from stressed joints, so on and so forth. An overweight person can still be mobile and a useful member of society, an obese person is most certainly a hinderance on all involvments. Think of an elevator even, A morbidly obese person takes up the area of 3-4 people in that wee room.

And as for the comment about Canada...We have only 1% less obesity than America. 5% at best. Apparently the gov't doesnt control everything in socialized medical!