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Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?

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posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by journey2010
 


Im not 100% sure I agree that healthy food is really more expensive than unhealthy food.

Cost per ounce to make a pot of chicken soup is probably not higher than cost per ounce to buy canned soup. When you buy potatoes, onions, chicken rice, etc., the initial cost is higher than buying a can of soup, but you can make multiple batches of soup from these ingredients. Not just one batch.

And lets not forget that part of the strategy here is to cut down the quantity of food being eaten in favor of quality. If you look at all the empty calories that people will no longer be able to consume because of such a restriction, (The sodas. cookies, candy, prepackaged this and that) thats all money that used to be spent in the food budget that was essentially money being burned. No nutritional value, but lots of calories. All that "wasted" money will now be available to people for purchase of nutrient rich foods.

To assist with such a transition, whomever issues food stamps could also compile a suggested monthly shopping and menu list, to help people get used to what kinds of healthy things to buy and how to prepare them so their supplies last them the whole month.
edit on 18-5-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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If cops can give me seat belt tickets because Im not safe in my car without it then Fat people should get tickets every time they walk into a fast food restaurant. Because that's just adding more fat to their fat which in return they get on disability that tax payers have to pay then they get to park their fat butts in handicapped parking spots. All the while real handicapped people have to park else where. Its gross and Im tired of it.
Side note Id love to see the dramatic decline of fat in this world if they would stop force feeding everyone High Fructose Corn Syrup.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


You make a good point. But let me ask you this... The pot of chicken soup you want to make.. is it healthy? How many GMO vegetables are you putting into it? What amount of sodium is in the broth? What chemicals have been injected into the chicken to make it more profitable for less money?

There are many points to this. But let me give a personal example:

I used to cook processed food. I made boxed meals and prepackaged foods. For 3 people, I spent about $300 a month grocery shopping. (about 2 years ago)

I now cook healthy. I do not buy prepacked food (which is not much different than fast food), and I use fresh vegetables, fruits, and meats. (Yes, I prefer organic, but cannot always afford this.) The only pre-made foods I buy regularly are peanut butter and spaghetti sauce - but now that my garden is going, I will make my own sauce.

I now spend $500-600/month in food. But I eat healthy. I have also lost 20#, (6'1, down from 195 to 175). I don't live off the system. For a while, I was on unemployment, but never accepted food stamps. I used unemployment to start my own business. I now run two small businesses. And yes, I eat fast food sometimes as a treat.

To cook naturally, and healthy, I spend more than I would if I bought prepackaged foods.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Under Water
...Wait till you have to put your bmi on your license and then show your id to buy cake and donuts. BMI too high? Well, no cake for you then.


Sounds like a perfect opportunity to smuggle Ding-Dongs into the Phat Pharm!

Another money making opportunity!!!

.........................
..........................



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by journey2010
 


I do agree if the point were to encourage people to switch from "normal" types of foods to "organics" that it would get really pricey real fast.

And just so you know, I wouldnt care if you had accepted food stamps at some point. Im not judgmental in that way. I was raised in foster care, and so the state paid for a lot of my upbringing. I dont look down on people who at some point or another receive help. It would be incredibly hypocritical of me to do so.

I think before any such switch should be made, someone should have to sit down and calculate the costs to feed a family of various sizes, (and have to actually do so) before the plan was implemented. That could and should be part of the process in making out suggested meal plans and shopping lists.

If the amount of food stamps we give people to feed a family of x frugally but healthfully is not sufficient, then we need to up the amount of food stamps so that that is realistic. If they really are not being given an appropriate amount of money to buy the right foods in the right quantities to prepare healthy meals, then fining them will do absolutely nothing to solve the problem, and may even push the problem in the other direction forcing them to buy more junk to make up for the fines.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Hell no! What is ridiculous taxing anyone else for anything else.
It's just another dividing tactic justify another tax 2 pay for more government workers.

IT'S JUST ANOTHER TAX!



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


What I meant when I said that I did not accept food stamps is that I was able to utilize my unemployment in a self sufficient manner. I was fortunate to be able to grow a garden, and to be able to start not one, but two businesses.

The point you make sheds light on a new problem. Raising the amount of foodstamps we provide a family of xxx to buy healthy foods is good... But does America REALLY need to be spending more money right now? This goes back to my original statement of taxing the hell out of fast food, junk food, etc - and eliminating the taxes on healthy food. (Not organic, but healthy.)

This is a free country. I do not believe the g'ment has the right to say "eat this, eat that". But if you are relying on food stamps, from the g'ment, then you should be smart with the money. Taxing junk food and making healthy food cheaper is a gentle nudge - not a direct order.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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If 'we' are paying for their health care then absolutely its right to make them pay more for unhealthy habits. This is what is wrong with 'state run' health care - soon we will all have to do as told because health care is a 'public' issue. STINKS but does make sense.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by journey2010
 


I was raised in foster care, and so the state paid for a lot of my upbringing. I dont look down on people who at some point or another receive help. It would be incredibly hypocritical of me to do so.


My partner and I are planning on becoming foster parents within the next year. Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated.
edit on 18-5-2011 by journey2010 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-5-2011 by journey2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by journey2010
 


We pay some farmers not to farm to keep prices from dropping too low, people were dumping milk at one point to keep prices up.

While we dont really need to be spending more money at this point, there are ways to spend the money we do spend more wisely.

And also, the logic behind making people pay a fine for poor eating habits is that being fat makes you cost more money to the people in terms of health care. So, whether or not this would ACTUALLY cost more to "the people" would depend on whether or not the cost of ensuring people can afford to eat healthy is greater than the medical costs to the people if they do not.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by journey2010
 


The only suggestion I have is dont do it if you dont have a really stable personality, and a lot of patience. I think people tend to go into for one of two reasons. One, they have fantasies of helping, and they envision the fulfillment and gratitude of giving disadvantaged children a better chance at life. They see themselves with kids who turn around relatively easily, and who are grateful.

The overlook that often you have to deal with the parents of these children and all their dysfunction and drama, and that the kids are often damaged, either by prenatal drug use, or years of emotional and physical abuse, and that it is a thankless, very hard job if you do it well.

The second kind of person just wants to make a living off the kids. And they really dont care otherwise. They do the bare minimum and they make their profit, and they could care less how the kids turn out and their profit is their thanks.

You need the patience of a saint, remarkable stability of personality, a strong understanding of behavioral training, a VERY strong marriage, (as it can cause fights) and you need to be willing to not have the kids turn out like you fantasize or hope they will, because sometimes, no matter how good the foster parent, the damage done is too great to be undone. Especially when the birth parents have access to the kids and manipulate them emotionally.

A lot of the kids I grew up with are dead, including some that were in the very good home I ended up in at the end.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by neformore


Interesting story this. Do we force people who refuse to look after themselves to do so?

Is it a requirement of society to stay healthy and fit?

Should people have the freedom of choice to eat and drink and abuse their bodies as they see fit - ignoring the advice of health care professionals without fear of reprisals from the health system?

Is this an opportunistic tax - and what are the implications of this thing going further, across the whole of the states?

Also - whats next? Extra tax on smokers? Drinkers? People with a sweet tooth? Where does it end?
www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



We already do pay extra taxes on smokes, booze, and food. If we pass this ridiculous personal mandate where everyone MUST pay into the health care system, then yes I think people who refuse to live a healthy lifestyle should have to pay. How is it fair that someone like myself who tries to take good care of myself, exercises, and eats right, never needs a hospital visit, has to pay exorbitant fees for people who cant put down the soda pop and cheeseburgers, then complain they cant afford heart surgery, blood pressure meds etc?

I think anyone who has self respect will want to look good, feel good, get hot chicks, (or hot guys, depending on gender or what you're in to) and live an over all better life.

There was period of my life when I was super stressed out, didnt have time to exercise as much, and was drinking a ton of beer. After about six months I weighed about 205lbs, which for an athletic 6ft person isnt exactly fat. I have since chosen to eat better, exercise more, drink less, and now weigh 170lbs. I literally feel so much better, I have a ton of energy, require less sleep, never get sick, and look/feel confident.

I pick up a 40lb weight and cannot believe I used to carry that around all day, everyday. Trust me, its not easy to get fit, but once you start you will feel sooo good. Life is too short to be fat.





edit on 18-5-2011 by WhiteDevil013 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Thanks for the advise. We are considering therapeutic foster.. Meaning the child will have behavior/mental/or physical problems. We understand the patience this will take, and will never expect 'an easy ride'.

We could foster now, with the $$ going toward bills. However, we have decided to postpone this a year or so until my main business is fully supporting us. This will allow us to use the foster $$ only toward the child.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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hey I might be fat, but I am active, and dont eat a whole lot, should I be penalized? This is BS



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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I've had trouble with my weight since I was a teenager, but being penalized by some official is a joke. When do we get penalized for breathing too much and even for looking at a picture or person the wrong way,or too long. ?



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by journey2010

We could foster now, with the $$ going toward bills. However, we have decided to postpone this a year or so until my main business is fully supporting us. This will allow us to use the foster $$ only toward the child.


Its probably a very good idea to wait until you do not need the money for bills.

Most children in foster care have spent time in "for the money" homes, as they outnumber people who do it to really help by a huge margin. No one is better at spotting someone trying to profit off them than the kids themselves. And while there is little they can do about it, legally or actually, they do tend to do their damnedest to make the exploiters pay with bad behavior, property destruction, and even physical rebellion if they are able to do so.

Even the hint that that is a motive will cause you nothing but grief unless you lock them in cages or abuse them into submission. Even in good homes the children tend to suspect a money motive, because of the bad homes, and the parental hints that that is the case that they drop to prevent the child from really bonding with the foster parent.
edit on 18-5-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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there should be no tax on any guilty pleasure ; to much food, booze , smokes, drugs. but on the other hand i am not my brother's keeper. if a person does any of the above they should be held resonsible for their actions. I do not want to have to pay extra for a person's liver or lung transplant nor do i want to have to pay for gastric bypass. If you got yourself to that point get yourself out.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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Translation: Fat and Lazy is no way to go through life.
In reality this is just more insanity from Arizona.... one little question: what's fat?
A BMI that put's you in overweight category? In this day and age I would assume just being fat doesn't get you cut off... I assume the standard is a BMI that put's you into Morbid obesity stage.
But this just won't pass, it's so absurdly discriminatory it's embarrassing.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
Well, why not just add tax on to rubbish food like doritoes and fast food and soda and such? Smokers have to put up with smokes being at least double due to tax, why shouldn't people who stuff crap food down their gullets too?
edit on Tue, 17 May 2011 19:42:49 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Hold on! You guys want to tax my twinkies? I thought we were fining fat people. Believe it or not, some skinny people like twinkies also. So why should I (as a skinny person) have to pay a tax on food I like when fat people are the problem? Did you know that some people don't like "fast food" and are overweight due to other circumstances?
Fat people are the problem right? So instead of solving the problem of obesity we instead create the problem of the food nazi. "They" will decide what you eat, and how you live. That will no longer be your choice.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by Truther9111776
 


HA!! That's exactly what popped into my head also. It just takes one to change their world. No government (no one) has the right to tell you what to do with your body!! If it starts with this just imagine where else it will lead. I'm sure TPTB already know which path this will take us down. By the way, from what I understand the people in England pay a small tax ( 5 to 10 cents) on almost everything. That money pays for all the health care for everyone in the country. If you need to go to Dr. or hospital you just go. The governments not in it they just payout. Anyone from England if I'm wrong please correct me. The insurance companies over here would have a fit over that of course cause they would have to come up another way to sc**w people.







 
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