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The "they" and "why" of the chemtrails

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posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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I have a few questions for the chemtrail believers.


  1. Who is the "they" in the chemtrail conspiracy? Is it the government? Terrorist organizations? Other groups?
  2. If the spraying is suppossed to be a covert operation, why have they created "chemtrails" that behave in the same way as a normal contrail? (And for those who claim chemtrails behave differently from normal contrails, why did they design "chemtrails" that are so obvious, isn't it a covert operation?)
  3. A lot of chemtrail believers state that they can tell the difference between a "chemtrail" and a contrail, and yet no photographic evidence exists. Can someone show me a photo of a "chemtrail" and a photo of a contrail, and explain how they look different?
  4. Since chemtrail believers do not trust the opinion of NASA, the USAF and other government organizations who have published documents that dispel the chemtrail myth, why do you accept the hypothetical paper "Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025" from the USAF Academy as evidence of spraying?
  5. I hear a lot of talk of debunkers being "disinfo agents" and "shills". My question for the believers is who is paying these disinfo agents and what is the motivation for the debunkers to perpetuate a lie that may be killing their friends and family? What has stopped one of these "shills" from using the "inside information" (that they would surely have) to blow the lid off of the whole chemtrail conspiracy?
  6. Finally, why do chemtrail believers require no evidence to support the existence of chemtrails, and yet they ask for "evidence" or "proof" that spraying is not occurring. Seems a little odd to me.




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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DANG IT! I was excited cuz I thought you had answers on the they and why!



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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Im not sure, but i see them all the time, one day i saw about 10 jets or unidentified jets, not UFO's. jet streams such as afterburners from a jet or a space shuttel smoke usually last about an hour, this smoke from these big not jet looking, like big air liners, smoke went away in about 10 seconds



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


The biggest hole in the chemtrail theory is that all of the "spraying" is done during the day. You would think if they were trying to keep it on the down-low they would be doing it at night with planes rigged for quiet running. I just think people will latch onto anything if it allows them to b--ch and moan about the government and the wrongs they perceive are being done unto them.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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All of this is an exercise in futility. If what you say is true then nothing you say to them will ever alter their view.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by pygmaeus
 


True - but if it helps a few "undecided" people examine the evidence and come to a logical conclusion instead of believing a hysterical paranoid hoax then I think it is a useful service to the public - so S&F



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by adeclerk

A lot of chemtrail believers state that they can tell the difference between a "chemtrail" and a contrail, and yet no photographic evidence exists. Can someone show me a photo of a "chemtrail" and a photo of a contrail, and explain how they look different?



You see, the chem trail is clearly less like a contrail.




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I starred you post as is a logical thought.
some may be saved brother



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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Do any chemtrailers dare address my OP point by point? I would love to be enlightened as to the true nature of this conspiracy.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by Ab123
Im not sure, but i see them all the time, one day i saw about 10 jets or unidentified jets, not UFO's.

It is not unusual to see 10 jets in a day.

Originally posted by Ab123
jet streams such as afterburners from a jet or a space shuttel smoke usually last about an hour, this smoke from these big not jet looking, like big air liners, smoke went away in about 10 seconds

You are describing contrails, they are not the jet stream or smoke, but rather ice crystals, just like clouds. The airplanes looked like big airliners because they most likely were big airliners.

I live close enough to the Space Coast to see Space Shuttle and other rocket launches, and I can assure you that the smoke from these launches looks different from ordinary contrails (it is smoke, not ice crystals like in a cloud or contrail) and doesn't linger as long as some contrails can.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Amen.
It's the reason I continue when I can. Enlightenment to a fence-sitter is fulfilling and worth all the same drivel "proof" ad nauseun.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by KILL_DOGG
reply to post by adeclerk
 


The biggest hole in the chemtrail theory is that all of the "spraying" is done during the day. You would think if they were trying to keep it on the down-low they would be doing it at night with planes rigged for quiet running. I just think people will latch onto anything if it allows them to b--ch and moan about the government and the wrongs they perceive are being done unto them.




You got stars for that?!

That doesn't even make any sense!

First off, how does anyone know they AREN'T spraying at night??

Don't you think people can simply see them during the day, perhaps?

Not everyone has night goggles.

ALSO!! What if this is mere geo-engineering?

Wouldn't it make most sense to spray during sunlight hours.




posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


Why would it make more sense for geo-engineering to be done in the day time? What geo-engineering is currently being conducted from airplanes?
edit on 5/17/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


1. Who/They?: The US Air Force, NASA, CIA are involved with geo-engineering, as well as some privately owned companies who supply planes such as the Evergreen company.

2. Persistent contrails (aka chemtrails) are different because they last a long time. It used to be a very rare occurence to see a jet trail that lasted more than a few minutes, now they last for hours, then turn into a haze or cloud. For anyone who has been an observer of our skies, there is an obvious difference.

3. Who is paying the shills/debunkers? I would assume the military/government. (or perhaps the taxpayers! ha ha) We had one on Craigslist where I live, he was obviously a shill. He/she would not allow information of value re: chemtrails to stay on the site. There have been some insiders who have given out information about the chemtrails, such as a scientist aqt Wright Patterson AFB. Also, some pilots have discussed chemtrails and have taken video of the trails while they are flying.

4. Chemtrail believers require no evidence? You've got to be kidding! Besides being able to see a huge difference in the skies over the last few years there is so much evidence. For instance: Scientists and third-party labs have confirmed dangerously high levels of aluminum and barium in the soil and water- with no explanations other than from chemtrails. It is already in congress for a plan to spray to prevent global warming- but common sense tells us that they are already doing it. There are many patents for chemtrail dispersal. Weather modification is occurring and there is even a US gov. department that monitors the aerosols and clouds. Evidently, you haven't been researching or getting on the better websites because there is a ton of proof that chemtrails are a real but nasty truth. You should check out these websites for starters: aircrap.org and chemtruth, californiaskywatch, etc. I have some great but disturbing photos of persistent contrails. I take photos of them all the time.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


But they DO SPRAY AT NIGHT!!! I work odd shifts and was really disgusted to be driving home around midnight and seeing huge, wide plumes of chemtrails in the moonlit sky, what a bummer. This has happened numerous times when I am leaving work late at night. Also, some mornings (I have a great view of the east horizon) I will see many chemtrails on the horizon, they eventually make their way over here. Because of my job schedule, I have been able to watch the skies closer than most 8-5 folks. Most people are getting off work and have no idea that the "clouds" they are looking at are actually from chemicals from jet spray.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


Alright I'll bite, but I'll say now that I don't have proof for anything I'm about to say, the answers are based on what I feel is the most true from the experiences I've had and material I've seen while learning about the subject. I do believe chemtrails are real and these answers are going to be based on the theory that chemtrails are for a malicious purpose, although I also believe they could actually have good intentions but are just idiots.

1. The ones running the project are the shadow ruling elite at the top, but they don't get their hands dirty, under them is the government, or various government and scientific agencies as well as corporations who actually carry out the operations, most whom of which probably aren't in the know of what they are actually doing. For example, the pilot and airport crew probably don't know what the true purpose of spraying is and believe they are doing something good, whereas the head scientists know exactly what the purpose is. Of all the people involved in the whole process of creating the chemicals and spraying them probably only around 5% are in the know of the true evil purpose while around 95% believe they are helping to save the world.

2. I never heard that chemtrails behave the same as contrails, as far as I know they act very differently and it's easy to see, so if it's supposed to be covert why did they make them so obvious to see? A very reasonable question. I think just because of the elements being used its is impossible for it act the same as a contrail, a contrail evaporates whereas metal particles do not, they float around and blow in the wind and slowly spread out and eventually land on the ground somewhere. Also, from what I have learned about the elite they love to show themselves and their symbolism to us blatantly out in the open but in ways so that their is not proof to pin anything on them. They are so blatant and laugh at us because nobody even realizes or reacts, they are very full of themselves and feel so superior to us they don't even care because they get away with everything.(Well at least they used to, now with the age of the awakening they are having a lot harder time staying hidden and keeping control.) Basically they do it because they can, and then after years and years when enough people actually start asking around about it and demanding answers they'll just be like, "yeahh global warming! We're gonna save the world!" then most of the people asking questions will reply with, "yeahhh! Save the world!" (Oh yeah also if it was hardcore covert, a lot more of the people involved would have to be in the know, it's far better for the masters to have their puppets believe they are doing something noble, it's all about control.)

3. The poster "pygmaeus" gave a very good example on the first page. A good way to spot them is when your in a field and there's a white line going for as far as you can see in both directions that stays up there for a long time while slowly widening.

4. I can't really comment on what the "chemtrail believes" believe or don't believe, or what papers they do or do not accept, hope you don't mind I'll skip this question.

5. The people paying any dis-info agents would be various people within government agencies and the shadow elite, the dis-info agents would have no access to any "proof" and probably don't know the truth of what they're defending, for them it's just a job. Some would be die-hard believers that chemtrails don't exist or that they are helpful and needed, some would be people who just don't care or don't have family, and some would be servants of the elite(lower level aspiring evil elitists trying to work their way up the organization.)

6. Again I can't speak for all believers but I thought there was proof, at least some. I thought I read somewhere on here that there were some scientists taking samples after heavy chemtrails and finding high levels of barium and aluminum and a few other elements too I think, I'll try to find that info for the thread. Personally I've never demanded evidence from anyone that they are not spraying chemtrails.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:17 AM
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Originally posted by nanemnat
reply to post by adeclerk
 


1. Who/They?: The US Air Force, NASA, CIA are involved with geo-engineering, as well as some privately owned companies who supply planes such as the Evergreen company.

2. Persistent contrails (aka chemtrails) are different because they last a long time. It used to be a very rare occurence to see a jet trail that lasted more than a few minutes, now they last for hours, then turn into a haze or cloud. For anyone who has been an observer of our skies, there is an obvious difference.

3. Who is paying the shills/debunkers? I would assume the military/government. (or perhaps the taxpayers! ha ha) We had one on Craigslist where I live, he was obviously a shill. He/she would not allow information of value re: chemtrails to stay on the site. There have been some insiders who have given out information about the chemtrails, such as a scientist aqt Wright Patterson AFB. Also, some pilots have discussed chemtrails and have taken video of the trails while they are flying.

4. Chemtrail believers require no evidence? You've got to be kidding! Besides being able to see a huge difference in the skies over the last few years there is so much evidence. For instance: Scientists and third-party labs have confirmed dangerously high levels of aluminum and barium in the soil and water- with no explanations other than from chemtrails. It is already in congress for a plan to spray to prevent global warming- but common sense tells us that they are already doing it. There are many patents for chemtrail dispersal. Weather modification is occurring and there is even a US gov. department that monitors the aerosols and clouds. Evidently, you haven't been researching or getting on the better websites because there is a ton of proof that chemtrails are a real but nasty truth. You should check out these websites for starters: aircrap.org and chemtruth, californiaskywatch, etc. I have some great but disturbing photos of persistent contrails. I take photos of them all the time.



That is a great hypothesis

But do you have any evidence to back your claim?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by nanemnat
 

Here is a video about chemtrails.
www.youtube.com...



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by nanemnat
 

4. Please provide the reports from those third party labs which confirm "dangerously high levels of aluminum and barium in the soil"?

Please provide the number of the bill in congress to "spray to prevent global warming"?

Yes, NOAA does "monitor" clouds. It does research on the effects of aerosols on climate too. It also monitors rain and snow and tornados and hurricanes. That's their job.



2. Persistent contrails have been observed for a very long time. They are nothing new.

From 1919:

The second German sighting occurred on May 9, 1919, when a pilot flying over Berlin at about 26,000 feet noticed the generation of a cloud stream that extended for about forty miles behind his plane. This stream eventually spread out to form a cloud layer that was about 3,000 feet thick. The pilot saw a similar phenomenon two days later.
www.accessmylibrary.com...

From 1940:

A few months later I witnessed the Battle of Britain taking place over my head in the July, August and September 1940. Being in SE London we had a grandstand view of the titanic struggle going on day aftr day with the intricate patterns of the contrails the most evident witness to the dog fights taking place.
www.bbc.co.uk... Short contrails do not produce intricate patterns.

1944:

So an airplane at great heights leaves behind it, stretching for endless miles, a visible "wake" composed of ice particles so tiny that they do not fall as snow but remain suspended in the air.
Source

From 1947:

Photo taken by Jerry Cole, combat aerialphotographer in the 390th Bomb Group at Framlingham Air Base in England. He is looking for a print from the original negative he shot around January 1944 or before. It shows contrails of P-47's crossing each other in the background and a B-17 in the foreground.


scoutbird.tripod.com...


From 1968:

Daily, for example, hundreds of jet planes crisscross the nation or great parts of it, often leaving fluffy contrails of water vapor, manmade clouds, as a signature of their passage.

Some contrails soon dissapate. Others turn into or are soon followed by high cirruse clouds that can and do influence the earth's heat balance with the sun.

news.google.com...,2068835&dq=contrails+cirrus&hl=en





From 1970:

The spreading out of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent conditions exist from 25,000 to 40,000ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.

journals.ametsoc.org...


Henry Wadsworth Hinkle, hired man down on the farm with Uncle Clarence and Aunt Martha, looked skyward a few days ago and was awed by the multiplicity of "vapor trails," as he called them. That's the old name. Now they are called contrails-short for condensation trails-resulting from the condensation of heat flowing from high-flying jet engines.

Source


A 43-year-old novice sailor said today that he followed jet contrails over the Atlantic to help him navigate after his sextant was smashed six days out of Pymouth, England.
Source He didn't follow jets, he followed contrails. You can't follow a short contrail.

1972:

Then there is the matter of cloudiness. The familiar contrails often left by high-flying planes might persist for a long time under some conditions.
Source


From 1973:

Often, after several clear days, high flying jets begin leaving condensation trails in the sky. These "contrails" are the result of the condensation of water vapor that accompanies engine combustion at high altitudes.
Source


He occasionally looked out the window at the earth and noted geographical locations. "We're coming over Europe and I've never seen so many jet plane contrails in my life," he reported
Source


Shore was no naïf; he recognized the irony of many of his images. One of the cleverest is "U.S. 97, South of Klamath Falls, Oregon, July 21, 1973," which depicts a desolate spot of road where a billboard displays a snowcapped-mountain scene — against actual mountains in the distance. The billboard image seems to emerge from the land itself. Along with a cattle gate and a sky with blown-out contrails, the billboard is a tired and shabby advertisement for America itself.
www.pitch.com... Contrails have to be around for a while to be "blown-out".

Then there's this 1965 Outer Limits episode (at about 0:30).


Twilight Zone from 1985. (at 8:56 and 13:13).





The only difference now is that there are a lot more of them. Want your blue skys back? No problem, just ban high altitude airplanes.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by nanemnat
 

Oh. Those reports. They don't show "dangerous levels". They show normal levels. Please see this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



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