The "they" and "why" of the chemtrails

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posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
A link to what exactly? A government statement saying they are indeed spraying chemicals into the air but it's a black op they are keeping secret?

Is that what you want me to provide?


A link to evidence that spraying is actually taking place, and not just discussions of what spraying might take place in the future.




posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Cobaltic1978
reply to post by deathproof
 


Weather modification? What would that entail then?


Probably cloud seeding, a non secret thing that everyone knows has happened for many decades, and nobody denies.

And which is totally different from anything people describe as chemtrails.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by wcitizen
A link to what exactly? A government statement saying they are indeed spraying chemicals into the air but it's a black op they are keeping secret?

Is that what you want me to provide?


A link to evidence that spraying is actually taking place, and not just discussions of what spraying might take place in the future.


The research you have read does not convince you. So, please tell me, what kind of evidence, from whom, would satisfy you.

By your own statement you're only here to debunk, so just tell me what would satisfy you....outside of an official government statement which, as I said above, would declare it is spraying but it's a secret.

What you want seems to be ludicrous.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


Only probably, so no evidence that this is what they definately mean by this?

I was expecting dozens of links to websites stipulating this fact. Okay thanks.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by wcitizen

The research you have read does not convince you. So, please tell me, what kind of evidence, from whom, would satisfy you.

By your own statement you're only here to debunk, so just tell me what would satisfy you....outside of an official government statement which, as I said above, would declare it is spraying but it's a secret.

What you want seems to be ludicrous.


Okay, so it seems like you are saying that there is no evidence of a spraying program, other than the discussions of possible future spraying programs?

Because what I'm asking is for ANY evidence other than discussion of possible future programs. You may pick whatever form of evidence you have.

Do you have ANY?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Cobaltic1978
reply to post by Uncinus
 


Only probably, so no evidence that this is what they definately mean by this?

I was expecting dozens of links to websites stipulating this fact. Okay thanks.


So you are basing your theory on the fact that there's no evidence that everyone is entirely honest? Could you explain this a bit more? Someone writes that they are not doing something, so that's evidence that they are, because they might not be telling the truth?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Cobaltic1978
What harm are the believers doing to anyone? Are you afraid that this conspiracy is becoming more apparent to people and they have started using sites like this one to research more about the subject?


a young impressionable ATS reader stumbles upon a chemtrail thread. The poster uses lots of big words and links to things like Chaff, and Cloud seeding referencing official documents. Then this poor young kid starts telling all his friends about how the bad man is spraying them. Soon, the other kids look into this a bit and find out their friend is a paranoid freak. Then this poor kid has lost his friends and has to spend the rest of his life on the internet in his mommies basement boo-hooing about being sprayed.

If a debunker can save just 1 poor kid from a lifetime in the basement, I think we have done well.

that's why we do what we do.
edit on 17-5-2011 by network dude because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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And if you are using the speculative geoengineering discussions as proof of chemtrails, does that mean you also believe in:


  1. Space Mirrors
  2. Artificial Trees
  3. Ship based cloud seeding
  4. Ballons spreading aerosols
  5. Ocean fertilization
  6. Plastic sheeting over glaciers
  7. Moon dust mines
  8. Laser removal of CFCs from the troposhpere
  9. forced vertical mixing of the pacific Equatorial Undercurrent


Because those are also all geoengineering schemes that have been proposed, but also have no evidence of being implemented.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by wcitizen

The research you have read does not convince you. So, please tell me, what kind of evidence, from whom, would satisfy you.

By your own statement you're only here to debunk, so just tell me what would satisfy you....outside of an official government statement which, as I said above, would declare it is spraying but it's a secret.

What you want seems to be ludicrous.


Okay, so it seems like you are saying that there is no evidence of a spraying program, other than the discussions of possible future spraying programs?

No, that's not at all what I said.


Because what I'm asking is for ANY evidence other than discussion of possible future programs. You may pick whatever form of evidence you have.

Do you have ANY?


As I have already said. You say you've read a lot on geo-engineering, so you've obviously seen the evidence gathered by many people in different parts of the world. That hasn't convinced you. So, now I am asking you what you want. You say ANY evidence - but at the same time you seem to want an official document which states it is carrying out an illegal and covert operation.
edit on 17-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
As I have already said. You say you've read a lot on geo-engineering, so you've obviously seen the evidence gathered by many people in different parts of the world. That hasn't convinced you. So, now I am asking you what you want. You say ANY evidence - but at the same time you seem to want an official document which states it is carrying out an illegal and covert operation.
edit on 17-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)


No, I'll take anything. Photos, lab reports, videos, anything.

What do you have?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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They = secret government
Terrorist organization = yes
other groups = governments of the world
chemtrails hide out as contrails, in plain sight.
plenty of pictures of a thick white line fading over time vs. persisting for many hours.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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So why don't they spray at night so we cannot identify the planes?

Where do they hide all these spray equipped planes? If they are criss crossing hundreds of locations in the US at the same time there should be several hundred planes being serviced at night for the next days spraying. Where are they?

Why is it that ‘plane spotters’ haven’t reported anything unusual?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by filosophia
They = secret government
Terrorist organization = yes
other groups = governments of the world
chemtrails hide out as contrails, in plain sight.
plenty of pictures of a thick white line fading over time vs. persisting for many hours.


So you're saying that they look the same as contrails, and yet these "chemtrails" persist unlike a normal persistent contrail? Please read this post on persistent contrails, they're nothing new.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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While I agree, the frustration of seeing alot of people believe in an unproven theory, I cant see this thread ending up with any real conclusion. Some will say contrails, some will say chemtrails. Both sides will show the same pictures, and they will support contrails more then chemtrails, since adding in a chemical component would require multiple physical tests to conclude its validity.

So chemtrails need a unique compound that can be found pretty much anywhere (that doesn't occur naturally or have a substantial background reading) since they are sprayed and are meant to fall to the ground. With the amount being sprayed over the amount of time claimed, there must be easily verifiable evidence by now to show odd chemical compounds that should not be at ground level and are blatantly out of place among normal readings.

If this can be at least proven somehow (and by proven, thoroughly tested and retested for results consistency) I think this would be cause to investigate further into the claim: how are they spraying, what are they using, who are they etc. So far I have not seen anything of the sort and therefore in my mind chemtrails are still but a fantasy.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by deathproof
 


You don't seem to have properly read that website you linked to.

Oh, and the claims of Evergreen Aviation?? Have been brought up countless times by those ignorant of reality, and explained to them, just as many times....:



Evergreen aviation based in Arizona

Evergreen unmanned and supertanker planes uses and capabilities here


Actually, Evergreen is based in McMinnville, Oregon. Not much going on at that tiny airport there, though...that is just "corporate headquarters" (probably because the current ownership prefer to live there, rather than in AZ).

SO, back to Evergreen's website....you were aware, weren't you, that they have a grand total of ONE "SuperTanker" Boeing 747?? Did you know this? You would have, if you read their website carefully.

Also....bit harder to find out, but do you know just how many airplanes, total, they operate??And, the real, major nature of their business?

(Interrupting myself, here....I think I can guess why you linked that site...it's because you read it on some stupid "chem"-trail website, isn't it?? Come on, fess up...)...


So, total fleet size @Evergreen...an informative web resource is www.airfleets.net...

ALL SORTS of good info, there....you can track the history of just about any civilian airliner ever built. World-wide!! Let's zero-in on Evergreen, shall we??:

www.airfleets.net...

What do we have, here?

They have, currently active, only TEN ( 10 ) Boeing 747s (to include that ONE SuperTanker) and TWO ( 2 ) Beechcraft 1900Ds. (That is a small, nineteen-passenger, when equipped with seats turboprop).

So....their major business? Hauling cargo!! The one modified jet to carry liquids is designed for fire fighting.

So far, proof of "chem"-trails = 0.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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If this has been going on in many western countries for 10 or more years…

Why hasn’t there been one disgruntled flight crew member come forward and spill the beans?

Why hasn’t there been one disgruntled ground crew member come forward and spill the beans?

There has to be several thousand people world wide that operate, maintain, fuel, and load the chemicals.
And even more that used to be involved.

Yet not one person has ever come forward.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth
 


Wielder, you are the reason most of us persist.
Really, just about everything you've said in your post is textbook "chemtrail" site bulls#!t drivel.
I ask you to go to Contrail Science. Just pick a page, any page. Read it, then the comments. It's an open forum, so there are believers there, too. Compare and contrast what you see is information vs. what a "chemtrail" site has taught you. Don't understand something? Ask. Disagree with something you see? Ask. Confused? Ask.
This one site addresses all the fallacies in what you have "learned" to believe. Try to remember as much about your science classes through the years as you can. Look at the links.
Why just believe?
Wouldn't it be nicer to know?
The "chemtrail" sites teach you to believe; Contrail Science can teach you to know.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by topherman420
 


Aye, one of the things I've said is that if chemtrails are being sprayed then their signature should be detectable over most parts of the world, especially higher latitude northern hemisphere. So we need to compare current snow in Greenland with the well known ice cores. Any difference would be compelling. This would be easy to do.

Bear in mind though that current Greenland snow contains a lot more black carbon and other pollution from around the world. An issue I consider waaaaaay more important than contrails.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Look the way it is, the way everything is, is nothing can ever truly be "proven". Think about it no source can be trusted 100%, even if top officials came out and announced they are spraying chemtrails that doesn't mean they actually are, they could have ulterior motives for lying, why would that be any more trusted than when they say they aren't spraying.

Official documents, videos, announcements, how do we actually know they contain the "truth"? Even if the scientists who wrote the official documents are being completely open and honest with all their available information, how do we even know their conclusions are accurate, they could be way off, just because the "smart guys" in top positions say something it doesn't mean they are correct in their findings.

So what are we left with? What can we go on to guide us through life? How will we know what decisions to make? One might say belief, but I say it's our intuition, let your intuition guide you, listen to your heart. They say to find the truth you have to look within, and I say listen to what your intuition from within is telling you.

All I know is have watched the skies all my life, everyday, I have seen planes fly above all my life. I am a very observant person and as a kid I loved to watch the planes and their contrails, I would love to watch how it came out of the plane and how it would dissolve away at the end of the trail. Then one day, I really can't remember how long ago it was now that I first started noticing weird contrails. Right away I felt they were very weird, I had never seen any contrails like that before, I was amazed how they would reach from horizon to horizon and they would be there for hours, something within felt that this was not right and not normal. It was not until sometime later I started looking around and finding information about "chemtrails".



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


I am a believer in chemtrails...so you know where I stand. And you should also know that I have no tangible and conclusive evidence....Some of your questions I would like to answer tho .


You asked: Who is the "they" in the chemtrail conspiracy? Is it the government? Terrorist organizations? Other groups?

Answer: Again I do not have evidence but if true, I personally think it is the government. And not just one government. Why the government.....? Because the governments of all the countries involved would not allow these dubious planes flying over their country and let them spray their # over the people. If it where terrorists or other groups they would have been noticed long time ago and shot out of the air. If it is the government why would they not inform the people you might ask. Answer: Spraying must be done because the reason/ threat is serious enough to cause civil unrest if made public.

You asked: A lot of chemtrail believers state that they can tell the difference between a "chemtrail" and a contrail, and yet no photographic evidence exists. Can someone show me a photo of a "chemtrail" and a photo of a contrail, and explain how they look different

Answer: Yes,...I know of one picture with two planes flying in it and with different contrails. One the normal and the other the supposed chemtrail. Actually....I saw the picture here on ATS. Ofcourse there are always arguments to undo the two different trails but the fact is that there is a difference to be seen in the picture.

This link will lead you to a thread with only chemtrail pictures and I can tell you that the skies never looked like that before. And I am sure that those mists drizzeling down in some of the pictures do not contain just moist from water.

ATS Chemtrail Pictures

You asked: If the spraying is suppossed to be a covert operation, why have they created "chemtrails" that behave in the same way as a normal contrail? (And for those who claim chemtrails behave differently from normal contrails, why did they design "chemtrails" that are so obvious, isn't it a covert operation?)

Answer: The reason why 'they' haven't chemtrails that behave like normal contrails is because they do not have the scientific knowledge to manipulate the properties of the chemicals they release. An other reason can be because 'they' do not care about hidding....'they' are so convinced of their status above the law, stupidity of the people and the ridicule someone will receive when screaming wolf.....something is different in the sky and they do not tell us. Reality (the lie) is to big to doubt.

You asked: I hear a lot of talk of debunkers being "disinfo agents" and "shills". My question for the believers is who is paying these disinfo agents and what is the motivation for the debunkers to perpetuate a lie that may be killing their friends and family? What has stopped one of these "shills" from using the "inside information" (that they would surely have) to blow the lid off of the whole chemtrail conspiracy?

Answer: Again if chemtrail are real....First of all I do not belief that chemtrail are sprayed to kill the population but that it has something to do with the radiation from the Sun or kosmos. In my theory these 'disinfo'agents are usefull to defuse unrest and make the whole theory a joke. Everybody will go to work the next day and all will be forgotten so to speak. If these people are being paid I do not know,....maybe it is part of their daily work....National Security.

You said: Finally, why do chemtrail believers require no evidence to support the existence of chemtrails, and yet they ask for "evidence" or "proof" that spraying is not occurring. Seems a little odd to me.

My answer: I would love to have evidence that will make chemtrails a fact. Evidence which will make chemtrails not a fact should be examined again.

Most of what I said is my opinion and do I not speak for other chemtrail believers....




edit on 17-5-2011 by zatara because: (no reason given)
edit on 17-5-2011 by zatara because: (no reason given)





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