Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Becoming
Theory 1. There are many worlds with life on them.

I think he is just going with statistics on them...should we find a empty universe...and no matter how far we explore in any direction, we find that earth is the only place where life exists, I will become a full zealot believer...such a outcome could only be the work of a deity. however, yes, your right...just because the hypothesis has a mountain of logic and reason behind it does not make it fact...just makes it obvious.

I wouldn't say obvious, just probable. Either way passing it as fact is irresponsible and a shame.

Stephen Hawking having most of the human experience stolen from him has not even had the chance to live a pleasurable physical life for most of his time here. He has a skewed perspective on life not just because of his physical dysfunction.

It does not matter his intellect his existence is totally focused on the physical, it is what he is and has become his religion.

The mind, body, and spirit together makes the trinity, creates the vibration frequency for us to experience life properly. Hawking's vibrational frequency machine is broken so of course the only thing he has to go by is his computer/like logic.

This is about his perspective. Not truth.

Originally posted by ZforZionism

Originally posted by TravisT

Originally posted by ZforZionism
Britain's most 'eminent' scientist says there is no heaven or life after death!

Well, I for one would be eager to see his scientific research and proof that shows that God doesn't exist and there is no heaven. He IS BRITAIN'S MOST EMINENT scientist so there is no way he would make such a claim without having scientific evidence and proof.

So let's see he scientific evidence and proof..what?....he doesn't HAVE any?....so how can he make such a claim...

Britain's most 'eminent' scientist I think not, Britain's most non-scientific opinionated trash? I THINK SO.

How can a scientific mind degenerate to such nonsense?

It's not nonsense, he's just working with everything we know of. Let's break it down in a simple form, shall we:

The only reason why we are able to perceive anything, is due to our brain. The way you process time(past, present, and future), is due to your brain. Time is just a measurement of events - events which we record with our brain. The only way we have thoughts, a sense of self, or a personality in general, is due to your brain. All of your memories are stored and processed in your brain.

Now, once you die, your brain deteriorates, and all of your thoughts, memories, personality, EVERYTHING, is now gone. If you have no way to process memories, time, or thought, then how are you able to go to heaven or hell? Why would it matter what you did here on earth? If your brain is gone, and has no sense of anything you ever did, then how do you know where to go in an afterlife? All of those are recorded with your brain.

If you take the memory out of your computer, and crush it up and destroy it, your computer doesn't have that memory anymore. The same with your body. And if there is such a thing as a "soul", then it has no memory of what you did in your past, without your brain(memory).

YOU make the assumption that memories are only contained within the brain. There are many scientific reports which show that people with transplants inherit some of the donor patients memory ? how is that possible?

Can you show me the scientific evidence to show the Soul does not have a memory of what was done in the past? Or are you talking in the same fashion as Britain's most EMINENT scientist?

Don't try to argue with me that there is no afterlife using opinions because I've heard them all already.

This thread is about a Scientist and using the scientific method (which was clearly absent). You can save the unsubstantiated opinions for your clergy.

Can you show me scientific proof of a soul?

If not, you can save the unsubstantiated opinions to your clergy.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by spacedonk

 

A statement like this from Stephen Hawking is no more or no less valid as a statement of "There is a heaven; it's a paradise" coming from the Pope.

Neither have proof...both are statements of FAITH.


Yes...his statement relies on faith...because he has no evidence. So to make a claim such as he is...he relies on faith.

edit on 16-5-2011 by OutKast Searcher because: (no reason given)

Ya, but the pope is a quack. his entire stand is to pose hypotheticals as fact...Steven is a scientist and so his statements, especially when he is "on the clock" holds far more weight.
he should know better..such statements are equal to a religious stand verses a scientific stand.

edit on 16-5-2011 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

The pope is posing hypotheticals as fact just like Hawking is. That was the point of his post. Neither has any proof of the existence of God and Heaven, but both are passing on their beliefs as fact without any evidence at all.

Now if Hawking makes these statement on the clock and backs it up with proof of the fact then he is right and did it the scientific way. So far he hasn't done anything differant then the pope on this subject.

I'm pretty certain he claims in one of his books (paraphrasing this) that it doesn't really matter what happened before the big bang - how matter came into existence..

Sure, he makes physics accessible and he's definitely extremely intelligent - but he's in no position to comment on spirituality imo. Fair enough to present a scientific perspective, just take it with a pinch of salt.

I prefer Carl Sagan and Michio Kaku anyway .

Like I figured ultimately we are just meatbags of mostly water with a huge overinflated perception of ourselves. What an ego man has wrought.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
You make a great point, but could it be that religious people, or at least people that believe in a God of some sort, vastly outnumber atheists not only in the U.S. but worldwide? Naturally, there would be a very small percentage in the prison population, as well as other areas of society. I'm not claiming to know who is right or wrong, but the numbers are what they are.

If there is 8-16% of atheists in society, then they should make between 8-16% of the prison population.
They don't, they make less than 1/4 of 1%

that means that the prison population is 99.25% theist....

Secular countrys (those with around 80% atheist population) have very reduced crime rates.

Religion drives people mad...the data confirms this.

Not just that, secular countrys tend to have less STD's, less abortions, and a higher education and standard of living. Religion is the hobble that was put of civilization that has kept us in a fearing murderous ignorance.

We are not talking pockets of atheists living peacefully together, there are entire countrys that are secular. Japan, Scandinavian countrys, france, etc.

Its simple hard statistical facts...there is absolutely no thinking around it. When a religion takes over, people do horrors to each other. its an infectious mindset that devalues the life of your neighbor...this I can state as fact because there is hard proof to back the claim up.

Originally posted by docpoco
I am a science guy, and I am also an honest doubter (Although I certainly hope the light doesn't just "turn off") who has a healthy amount of skepticism, but am open minded.

What amazes me about science is that things like "extra dimensions, string theory, extra universes and dimensions, time dilation, quantum flux, double slit experiment" are all very very strange but deemed credible, but things like God, spirits, near death experiences are regarded as mythical.

I don't understand the definitive statements on either side in the absence of proof. I can understand believeing and faith, but not definitive statements.

The bottom line is, our universe is extraordinary, and incredibly unlikely given the odds of all things being right.

Then we also have to consider that we still don't know how life began, or more philosophically, why? Why would a random, undriven and extremely unlikely universe generate incredibly complex creatures that are self-aware of their own demise. It IS incredibly pointless if that is the case.

If you study the sciences you will find that we still know very little - we still don't know 'how' the quantum effect works - we only know what it does and work off that. We STILL DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS MAGICAL FORCE CALLED GRAVITY. We can calculate the force and know what it is determined by (mass) but do NOT have a clue about what magical force is pulling us down.

But, what we do know, is that the probability of there being life on the planet, and the circumstance leading to that is so small it is practically impossible. PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a SEQUENCE of trillions of interconnected events (we are not talking about winning the lottery, but constantly winning the lottery, every second of every day), which gives rise to the notion there must have been a charm or good luck to get us where we are hence the notion of GOD.

If you want proof of GOD'S intelligently and meaningfully designed universe then study the science subjects.

Let's look at Darwin shall we? Darwin (the modern day sciences god) said himself that his theory is INVALID if there are irreducible biological systems. Such things have indeed been found recently SO DARWIN HIMSELF WOULDN'T believe in his own theory (see his assumptions in his 'scientific' study regarding evolution). A car cannot survive without an axle so it cannot propagate, it's complexity is irreducible.

If anything, science has shown that there IS an external force calling the shots: call it God, call it Aliens, Call it Karmasutra but are trying hard to propagate lies to fuel their atheist fetish.

I think that's a pretty bold statement for someone who is alive to say... And how would Stephen Hawking know?

How dare any of you question science.

As a scientist, I feel it's my right to ridicule people who want knowledge to things that don't fit my paradigm. Curse you, for thinking you know more than me. Curse you for not enduring my sufferings of studying. I know more than you and cannot be wrong.
I know what molecular bonds are made of, what orbitals exist and why they interact. I know how the planet actually evolved 4.6 billion years ago. I know the dynamics and physics of the universe. I am better than you.

Therefore, I know there is no life after death.
I know that I know everything and we are only limited to 5 senses. Nope, I will not entertain the thought of a sixth sense. That's so unscienctific... trying to think outside the box. No wait, that's whacky terms. Yeah, those pursuing knowledge... just whacky people!!!!111

You want knowledge of the afterlife and you want to learn about spirituality? You're not a scientist because I say so... because I know what chemicals bonds are; you don't. Thus I'm automatically the end all be all of knowledge.


Most of all, as the scientist, let me tell you that you CANNOT talk about death. The world goes black and then that's it.
"Sir, have you actually died though and experienced it?"
Uh... no. Err... uh...
Er, I don't need to experience death to know what lay beyond. I know it all with science!!! AND YOU DON'T. Because, quite frankly.... the only thing to life is chemical bonds. If you don't believe there are only chemical interactions... you're a lunatic! A fringe conspiracy theorist that doesn't want to accept reality. That's what you are, a fringe lunatic conspiracy theorist!

Stay in our mold of knowledge. Stepping outside means you're a lunatic! We already know everything.



Obey.

I see the irony in this story.
Hawking is given a brain that almost anyone in this world would want...
Yet he is given a disease that disables his body. I suppose it could be God's way of his unbelief.
You may be one of the smartest men to live on EARTH but you are nothing in HEAVEN. JMO.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
You make a great point, but could it be that religious people, or at least people that believe in a God of some sort, vastly outnumber atheists not only in the U.S. but worldwide? Naturally, there would be a very small percentage in the prison population, as well as other areas of society. I'm not claiming to know who is right or wrong, but the numbers are what they are.

If there is 8-16% of atheists in society, then they should make between 8-16% of the prison population.
They don't, they make less than 1/4 of 1%

that means that the prison population is 99.25% theist....

Secular countrys (those with around 80% atheist population) have very reduced crime rates.

Religion drives people mad...the data confirms this.

Not just that, secular countrys tend to have less STD's, less abortions, and a higher education and standard of living. Religion is the hobble that was put of civilization that has kept us in a fearing murderous ignorance.

We are not talking pockets of atheists living peacefully together, there are entire countrys that are secular. Japan, Scandinavian countrys, france, etc.

Its simple hard statistical facts...there is absolutely no thinking around it. When a religion takes over, people do horrors to each other. its an infectious mindset that devalues the life of your neighbor...this I can state as fact because there is hard proof to back the claim up.

I've never heard more nonsense in my life.

It is nothing more than economical factors that determine the above. If anything, belief in God acts as a deterrent to commit crimes in addition to the law. For atheists they have no barrier other than the law.

It's very simple, and if you read slowly enough I'm sure you'll understand.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
You make a great point, but could it be that religious people, or at least people that believe in a God of some sort, vastly outnumber atheists not only in the U.S. but worldwide? Naturally, there would be a very small percentage in the prison population, as well as other areas of society. I'm not claiming to know who is right or wrong, but the numbers are what they are.

If there is 8-16% of atheists in society, then they should make between 8-16% of the prison population.
They don't, they make less than 1/4 of 1%

that means that the prison population is 99.25% theist....

Secular countrys (those with around 80% atheist population) have very reduced crime rates.

Religion drives people mad...the data confirms this.

Not just that, secular countrys tend to have less STD's, less abortions, and a higher education and standard of living. Religion is the hobble that was put of civilization that has kept us in a fearing murderous ignorance.

We are not talking pockets of atheists living peacefully together, there are entire countrys that are secular. Japan, Scandinavian countrys, france, etc.

Its simple hard statistical facts...there is absolutely no thinking around it. When a religion takes over, people do horrors to each other. its an infectious mindset that devalues the life of your neighbor...this I can state as fact because there is hard proof to back the claim up.

I've never heard more nonsense in my life.

It is nothing more than economical factors that determine the above. If anything, belief in God acts as a deterrent to commit crimes in addition to the law. For atheists they have no barrier other than the law.

It's very simple, and if you read slowly enough I'm sure you'll understand.

This has been an intresting thread to read. My opinion on the subject is contriversal to say the least..if not to anyone at least to myself. For years now(like many others) i have tried to look at the existence of a creator and it is just impossible for myself to comprihend that we just simply existed out of nothing more than enzymes and various other componets coming together at the right time. Yet science prooves to an extent that such a thing can and possibly happened. I beleive in what I can see..what can be put in front of me as physical facts.This is not to say I do not have faith. This causes me much trouble in my mind.its hard to exist with faith when the mind struggles to put it into physical facts...I dont know if hat came out right,I really dont know how else to explain this. I read somewhere once that Faith/the beleif in something beyond ourselves was the minds way of creating self-preservation. What would be the point of it all without something greater than ourselves? The average human mind could not live with this concept..that we are simply meat and only here to survive..i beleive we would die out from depression/suicide after a while.I have a rather lengthy opinion on this entire subject but it would be thread on itself so I will leave you with another article I read...maybe start a thread of my own and try to work this out compleatly and finally!(at least to myself)
the mind of mankind

Blessings to all!

Originally posted by antmax21
I see the irony in this story.
Hawking is given a brain that almost anyone in this world would want...
Yet he is given a disease that disables his body. I suppose it could be God's way of his unbelief.
You may be one of the smartest men to live on EARTH but you are nothing in HEAVEN. JMO.

You believe God to be petty?

Originally posted by gemineye
reply to post by spacedonk

 

I don't even know what I believe in as far as heaven goes, but...

How the hell does Stephen Hawking know whether heaven exists or not? Last I checked, he hasn't died. How'd he find out?

He may be a smart guy, but when it comes to knowing whether heaven exists or not, he doesn't know any more than the rest of us.

edit on 5/16/2011 by gemineye because: (no reason given)

^^^ This. Exactly.

Just because he's a really smart astrophysicist doesn't mean he somehow has all of the answers to everything, including the nature of death. Physically, after brain activity ceases, the body is dead and will never be reanimated (as far as we know). But the energy that made up the living awareness and consciousness is gone. Where did it go? Energy is neither created nor destroyed. I thought Hawking knew that. Hawking should stick to subjects of a purely scientific nature; that is all he believes in after all. And even in scientific matters, Hawking is wrong about many things. He has even recalled his own theories and explanations before.

Originally posted by ZforZionism
I've never heard more nonsense in my life.

It is nothing more than economical factors that determine the above. If anything, belief in God acts as a deterrent to commit crimes in addition to the law. For atheists they have no barrier other than the law.

It's very simple, and if you read slowly enough I'm sure you'll understand.

Difference between you and I
I can back up my statements with a mountain of statistical evidence

you can back up your statements with....erm...what, cupcakes and denial? do you even have cupcakes?

now is the part where you become frustrated, stomp your foot, and pretend your better than delving into this conversation of "ignorance" and stammer off, attempting to forget that facts are actually facts.

can you at least leave a cupcake before you do? (hungry)

It would be likely he doesnt spend energy thinking of an afterlife (of sorts): he's an academically genius vegetable and world renowned.

Nature (science?) took his body and wracked it with MND: in my experience, most people that are bitch slapped in such a form denounce anything they cant see, touch, taste, smell, or hear because they cant understand why any kind of creator or flying spaghetti monster would do that to them (and rightfully so). They live through the best means they have via what brain power they have - and they see the world through only that: material experience.

I wonder: If he could stop being Stephen Hawking for ten/10 minutes if he would have something more to say.

Really - this subject is just an endless circle.