Come on yes you say that it only took 19 arab terrorists to create havoc but do u really think mexicans are coming across the border because they WANT to create havoc and destruction of course NOT they just come here because they are looking for an oppurtunity to work. I'm sorry if you actually realy beilieve that the mexicans that are coming across the border plan to destroy buildings and etc why would they want that? they are only trying to get work and the wall idea wouldnt work they already have a wall and so many dumb white ranchers are already shooting the poor immigrants and how come no one has mentioned that yes about 1500 illegals are coming but the amount that is going out is about double. The mexican workers wouldnt benefit from causing terrorist attacks. The 19 arabic people that did create so much choas did so because of their beliefs and about "la raza" thats bullc**p sure it might be only a small percentage that think that way because they are tired of being oppresed by the white man!!

Everyone is posting half assed opinions and incomplete facts. Ok first of all lets talk about the physical aspect of it.

Manufactured goods, natural resources, and consumer products are transported through air land and sea. A physical wall has obviously no effect at all to the air or sea transports but what about land? The wall that we would prefer to build is going to be across large vasts of virtually unpatrolled open desert terrain and certain rivers. The land transports do not go through water obviously, and neither do they travel through unpaved, unlit, unmarked, cactus plagued, rocky open desert. That must mean that they travel on paved highways that already enter and exit through a border checkpoint. So Building a physical wall has no impact on any legal trading or immigration. There goes that arguement.

People continue to say we are walling ourselves in? Well when you decide to take a trip to mexico do you fire up that range rover and haul ass through unpaved rocky cactus ridden desert road? Do you take your boat and then go to one of the ungaurded rivers only to have to travel miles to get to a location you could have easily accessed entering through a checkpoint? I highly doubt most people going to Mexico legally do so through the desert and river. So this wall then will not effect our leaving the country because we will still be travelling through the checkpoints that are already in place now wont we? So the "walling ourselves in" arguement flies out the window.

Lets ignore the matter of whether the "illegal" immigrants are coming in to work honestly, be exploited, or run the streets committing crime. Lets just concentrate on the matter that they are entering illegally into our counrty through this currently laughable border. Now I am almost postive that a majority of these individuals are not at all traveling through the checkpoints where our manufactured goods and citizens legally travel through our countries everyday the same way they would if there were a wall or not. These illegals are taking advantage of our open unpatrolled desert expanse and river borders because on foot they are easy to get across. I am going to play ignorant and only "assume" that all these illegal immigrants are causing only a few problems in the country. Would a phyiscal concrete wall lets say at most even 10 feet high, topped off with electrified razor sharp barbed wire and lighted signs on the walls, as well as lighted posts every few hundred yards warning in both english, spanish and that one native indian language of the few remaining tribes in mexico, that any illegal attempt to cross this border can lead to extreme lacerations and/or massive electrocution that may very well result in death, as well as the chance of being shot by border gaurds if somehow you make it to the other side, and as well as the possibility of being captured alive will result in immidiate deportation be so bad? The physical barrier alone will turn many people away from any attempts. Whatever few individuals who attempt to make it across were sufficiently warned by the signs and the appearance of the 10 foot wall with razor sharp electrified wire obviously implies "KEEP OUT!"

This wall is not closing our borders or hundreds of "legal" checkpoints that already exist now. It is simply filling in the loopholes in which hundreds of thousands of illegal individuals cross into our country with virtually no trouble, many of these people being criminals. Is keeping out even only 100 criminals not worth it? Remember that one crime affects alot more people than you may think.

Lets say a middle class family of four has an online business as an extra income in order to support their unfortunate less wealthier relatives and elders. If this family house is completely robbed then they affect not only those four, but the several others that were depending on their help. What about their physical jobs in the offices or stores? They have to work harder and longer That is only one crime, most criminals commit more than one, in turn affecting many more people. So this wall could save a minimum of hundreds of American citizens from sufferring because an illegal immigrant was able to easily cross the deseet with no trouble and establish him/herself into society as a possible nuiesance.

Im all in favor of a wall very well like that I have just explained. It still remains humanitarian because of the multi-lingual warning signs all across the border. It isnt our governments or citizens faults if an illegal citizen taking the burden of attempting to enter the country illegally did not bother to read the signs in their own tongue or have the common sense to not climb a ten foot wall with razor sharp wire all the way across.

[edit on 8/3/2004 by DYepes]

Hey spitincobra, I hear that a highway is being built or will soon be built that links Canada and Mexico. When that happens, and you start to get all of the illegals and your taxes go up to pay for the extra police and health care costs and your wages go down due to the fact mexicans do it cheaper and illegaly then you will know our pain. You to will start to complain.

In the two days this thread has been open, 3000 illegals have crossed the U.S.-Mexico border into the U.S.

Thank you for contributing to this very important topic. Special thanks to ThunderCloud, cryptorsa1001, kenshiro, DYepes, and aWoman for your for your views and research on the US/Mexico Border. Something has to be done because just in August an estimated 4500 illegals have entered the US.

Thank You

I live in San Diego, 20 minutes from the San Ysidro border crossing. If anyone has seen the movie "Traffic" you might remember, its the border crossing used to get to Tijuana from California. Having gone on many day trips to TJ when I was younger and walking across the border, I can say that although you have to go through the US Border Patrol building that they aren't very rigorous in their screening. I have never so much as been asked for ID. At most they ask "Country of nationality?" so of course ANYONE could just say USA. Of course I am fair skinned with blue eyes so obviously I'm not a Mexican. But for all they know, I could have been a wanted fugitive, or a foreigner from who knows where. Hair and eye color can easily be altered via wigs and contacts. Some of my friends with darker features have told me they are sometimes asked to show ID or asked more questions, but they are not strict at all about allowing people back through. I'd be interested to know how many illegals manage to sneak not just across the border but right past border patrol.
Also, if anyone is familiar with the Comedy Central show "Insomniac with Dave Attell" there's an episode where he is in San Diego and goes to TJ and actually hangs out with guys in Mexico as they prepare for a late night dash across the border. One guy said something like the only barrier in their way were 2 rows of barbed wire, and of course these guys were more than willing to risk it.

#, I heard some dumb #, but this is by far the most idiotic discussion I’ve heard, this week.
the fact that this discussion is being taken seriously and not as a joke chocks me more than dogs dressed as people.
yes illegal immigration is always a problem for any rich nation, and the middle class and poor citizens of that nation stands to loose. the ones who stands to win are the rich. Why do you think illegal immigrants get your jobs?
they don’t have same rights as you do, they wont get medical insurance, they wont get the same pay, they will work worse hours, cause they dont have any choice they cant complain cause they’ll just get deported and they know that there is 2 more waiting for that job. the rich people of your country abuse them and force them to work in sweetshops in your own country for a quarter of what he would have been forced to pay for american labour.
and who has the power to make make changes in your country? is it joe the factory worker who recently lost his job, or oscar III, CEO of some major company? what I am saying is that the one who can change the situation is the ones who benefit from the current situation.
whether you choose to further alienate yourselves from the rest of the world community with the actions suggested above, or try to help the situation in latin america which the US is largely responsible for, (which a wont elaborate at this time but will if called upon)
thats your call, but to change any situation you need to remove people in power who stands to benefit from your loss.

latest terror alert: another lie

Since it is out now that Sunday's terror alert was unfounded (alledged terrorist picture and details from the year 2000), I now believe that perhaps talk of middle easteners coming by way of Mexico MUST be another lie. Everything with this government is a LIE.

I live in Arizona, and though I realize there are Mexicans coming daily thru the border undocumented, I have yet to see a middle eastener.(exept local convenience store owners).

WHAT NEXT? Can anyone honestly tell me how some people STILL believe all this? As hard as I try to be open-minded I simply cannot understand how half of the population is soooo blind. I wish I were blind and behind pres Bush, my nerves would be so much better off.....

When I first saw this thread I was thinking someone might be a little crazy............ then I saw someone suggest the Canadian border too........... that's when I knew someone insane. Sufficive to say, you can't afford it, walls aren't so hard to build on flat land but to quote a song "Our mountains are very pointy, our prairies are not The rest is kinda bumpy, but man do we have a lot". You'll need the cheap illegal alien labor to manage it, trust me I know I biked up on of the mountains that is straddled by the border....... not easy, I pitty the poor bastard that would have to build that. True that type of thoroughness would have prevented me from wanding back and forth accross the border for lunch, but I don't think Canada is so evil infested that you have much to worry about. I was glad to see that later this was more or less retracted as a statment. I would also ask why you're so worried about the people coming accross the Mexican border when you can't effectively screen people coming through more converntional means. If you're worried about terrorism(I'd be more worried about some random car turning you into a hood ornament myself) then yes increase border patrols and coast guard, I wonder if you can buy a coast guard cutter or 6 for the cost of an F-22?

Hey spitincobra, I hear that a highway is being built or will soon be built that links Canada and Mexico. When that happens, and you start to get all of the illegals and your taxes go up to pay for the extra police and health care costs and your wages go down due to the fact mexicans do it cheaper and illegaly then you will know our pain. You to will start to complain.

Sh**, you are such an idiot, know your damn geography fool, Canada north, Mexico south Canada dosen't share a freaking border with Mexico!!!!! idiot! I feel for the poor saps who have had their country disgraced by having you in it. Gah! that's just horrible..........arrrg!

[edit on 4-8-2004 by Amur_Tiger]

Originally posted by Amur_Tiger

Hey spitincobra, I hear that a highway is being built or will soon be built that links Canada and Mexico. When that happens, and you start to get all of the illegals and your taxes go up to pay for the extra police and health care costs and your wages go down due to the fact mexicans do it cheaper and illegaly then you will know our pain. You to will start to complain.

Sh**, you are such an idiot, know your damn geography fool, Canada north, Mexico south Canada dosen't share a freaking border with Mexico!!!!! idiot! I feel for the poor saps who have had their country disgraced by having you in it. Gah! that's just horrible..........arrrg!

He might be bad at geography , but I thought he was referring to the NAFTA highway routes that will connect Canada, the U.S., and Mexico (thus connecting Canada to Mexico through the U.S.) myself... So I just read it as a typo. I don't know how many Mexicans will flow into Canada once the border points of all three countries open via the NAFTA agreement next year, that's anyone's guess...

Originally posted by disturbence
#, I heard some dumb #, but this is by far the most idiotic discussion I’ve heard, this week.
the fact that this discussion is being taken seriously and not as a joke chocks me more than dogs dressed as people.
yes illegal immigration is always a problem for any rich nation, and the middle class and poor citizens of that nation stands to loose. the ones who stands to win are the rich. Why do you think illegal immigrants get your jobs?
they don’t have same rights as you do, they wont get medical insurance, they wont get the same pay, they will work worse hours, cause they dont have any choice they cant complain cause they’ll just get deported and they know that there is 2 more waiting for that job. the rich people of your country abuse them and force them to work in sweetshops in your own country for a quarter of what he would have been forced to pay for american labour.
and who has the power to make make changes in your country? is it joe the factory worker who recently lost his job, or oscar III, CEO of some major company? what I am saying is that the one who can change the situation is the ones who benefit from the current situation.
whether you choose to further alienate yourselves from the rest of the world community with the actions suggested above, or try to help the situation in latin america which the US is largely responsible for, (which a wont elaborate at this time but will if called upon)
thats your call, but to change any situation you need to remove people in power who stands to benefit from your loss.

Well disturbence, im sorry you think this topic is idiotic but then again, i don't care. Millions of dollars in tax money goes to keep these criminal alive after they have risked their lives to enter America illegaly. I live in Texas and i see all kinds of illegals waiting on the side of the road to be picked up for work. It is sad, but the fact that they are taking jobs away from poor tax paying Americans is BS. Im sure that doesn't helps out the homeless situation in large cities like Houston and Los Angeles. And then there goes more tax money that should be spent on the American people. If you don't like the discussion then go reply to something that suites your preference. 1500 illegals a day, 500,000 a year. And thats not a problem? I wish i lived where you live, in fantasy land. Here in reality disturbence tax paying Americans care where are money is spent.

The illegals entering the Southern States of the US is a problem, and something more has to be done. Building a wall is going to be too expensive. In a earlier post i provided a link to a story that talked about a wall that is being constructed on the California/Mexico border. It is a great idea but it is going to cost 20 million just to build 5 miles of this wall. So a huge wall is out of the question, more Americans on the border is the answer.

Some Americans are putting up water stations with food and a place for these illegals to rest while they cross the deserts to America. These people need to be charged with imbeading (spelling???) a criminal and deported with the criminals they helped to get in. Illegals are criminals, if they weren't, they wouldn't be considered ILLEGALS.

However, what makes you think Arabs, who live in the desert, won't come through the undefended border to make another attack? It would be a very easy way in, maybe not this time of year because of the extreme heat but Arabs were born and raised in the desert. If i hated America they way they do, it would be a piece of cake, no search, no resistance, just walk right in. Wake up people or is it going to take ANOTHER SEPT.11th?

May i ask where you are from disturbence? By the language you use, it sounds like a less developed civilization? Just kidding, it is hard to hold back when you read some of these posts. Either way, living in Texas i see the problem these illegals have caused, and something has to be done soon. By the end of the day today, August 4th, 6,000 illegals will have entered the country illegaly, costing me and other Americans a LARGE amout of money. Concerned American AntiPolitrix

[edit on 4-8-2004 by AntiPolitrix]

[edit on 4-8-2004 by AntiPolitrix]

I don't know how many Mexicans will flow into Canada once the border points of all three countries open via the NAFTA agreement next year, that's anyone's guess...

Fair enough, though it still dosen't make much sense for the Mexican to try to get all the way to Canadian borders, more of a concern would be shipping ports.

Fair enough, though it still dosen't make much sense for the Mexican to try to get all the way to Canadian borders, more of a concern would be shipping ports.

What about free healthcare for pretty much everybody even illigals, although depending on the Doc they could get ratted out and deported because there seems to be a backlash against illigals lately up here

It doesn't matter who is coming through. It doesn't matter if they're Mexican or Middle Eastern or South American. The only thing that matters is their legal status. They are legally entering our country or they are not. If they are going through channels, they are entering legally and this whole topic is moot for them. If they are not going through channels and instead are sneaking through to enter this country illegally, then they are a problem. Whether they're going to clean houses, do construction labor, commit felonies or blow up a building, they are illegally entering the country. Their motivations don't matter in the context of this question.

All of the country's borders should be secured against illegal entry and smuggling. Motivations don't matter. Legality matters. If it can't be done with a physical wall or fence, it must be done with manpower. But either way, it needs to be done.

As for the "plight" of illegals... they've brought it on themselves. No one here is forcing them to work for poverty wages or in sweatshops. They came here and they are taking what they can get. If they're willing to work for next to nothing, and still think this is better than Mexico, then it seems it's not The White Man keeping them down but rather The Brown Man south of the border that's doing it because they want to live here in what we consider bad conditions rather than stay there. I have no sympathy for their discomfort while lying in the beds they've made for themselves.

Come on lets get real is it their fault they were born in a country that provides no oppurtunity NO. building a wall isnt going to help much because you are talking about a preety damn long wall and who is going to want to make it? the white man of course not have you seen all the people that are in construction they are mostly south american and their bosses are white so dont hope on any white people building a wall that long. And its not only mexicans that go acorss the border so i would prefer if people not use the word mexican but Latin Americans thank you! the only way i see to solve this problem is for mexico to solve its econo9mic problems which could be helpes if the US pardoned some of their debts but thats probably the same as a snowballs chance in hell so the only way would be for a better and stabel economy in mexico just my poiny of view

Originally posted by sardion2000

Fair enough, though it still dosen't make much sense for the Mexican to try to get all the way to Canadian borders, more of a concern would be shipping ports.

What about free healthcare for pretty much everybody even illigals, although depending on the Doc they could get ratted out and deported because there seems to be a backlash against illigals lately up here

Sardion2000, question for you..... Who is paying this doctor , his nurses, paying for supplies.... and on and on and on?
Who is paying for the medication???
As it is right now, hospitals and doctors are required by law not to turn people away if they can not show a means to pay or if they are here legally (or ilegally). I cannot remember ever having to produce identification to any doctor much less than an ER. So in essensence, the illegals already have free healthcare, remember they do not pay taxes (other than sales taxes) Who payes for this free healthcare we do the taxpayers that is who.
The federal goverment as well as the states have in place organizations that cater to the low income people to provide them with free (or greatly reduced drugs) along with free check ups.
This is going on today even as we speak this is one of the components to the failed resolution a few years back in California.
Then when you factor in the free education that they are given (again they are not paying for it as they do not pay taxes you do)
What happens in the end... all of our taxes are raised so that we can subsidize all this free services to people who are ilegally here.
This is not tolerated in most countries around the world for the above reason and many more such as increased crime rate (yes this can be shown statically), why should the us and it's citizens both native, and those who legally live and work here not do the same?
I have no problem with people who wish to immigrate here and who use the legal channels to move here. By doing this, they are showing just how much they want to be here, think about it now from the side of those who wish to be here illegally, yes they want to be here to, yes they want to better themselves, but they cannot be bothered to follow the laws (by the very means of their entry). If they can ignore this one law, why should they bother to obey any others? If they get caught, hey that is a free plane ride home (in most cases). If they do not get caught but know the law is after them, hey, they can cross the border (in the opposite direction) and be home free and of course since they have done it before, they can just cross the border again once the heat is off.
I live in texas and I have a very high automobile insurance rate. you ask me why, one of the main reasons is nthat I have to have insurance to cover damages to my vehicle if it gets hit by someone who does not have insurance. guess what, many (if not most) of those who are in the us illegally do not have car insurance.
Then go ahead and try to cover your losses, guess what, read the section above about breaking the law.
In the long run, it is costing the individual tax payer hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars of here in support of those people who are here illegally.
Can you give me one good reason why I or my family should have to pay for all these "free" services? Can you give me one reason why I and my family should have to suffer higher crime rates or the personal and property damage caused by theses illegals?
I am fairly opened minded, but I rejoiced when the federal goverment started to put in place limitations on those who are on welfare. I will quote on person who was televised here complaing why they did not look for work..." why should I go and work at one of these places that the welfare office sends me? I would not be making as much money working as a secretary (note that is what the welfare office trained her to be) when the welfare (which she would no longer be eligible for) was paying her more for just sitting at home?
I am a firm believer that in order to be something in life, you have to go after it yourself and should not require others to support / pay your way through life. I came from a family that "lived" on welfare and I do mean that in all since of the statement and i hated every second of it what i and my family have today, we have struggled and paid for, we never depended on anyone for anything.

Well, I grew up in Canada, I've only been to the States a couple of dozen times and I have never recieved medical treatment in the US either. I grew up believing that Free Health Care was a right not a privlige to the rich and upper middle class. So the only reason I can give is that I believe it's a basic human right. Especially when Human life is at stake. So please take no offense because I do not presume to tell you guys how to run your country cause it's not my place. I was just put my 2 (cnd) cents in.

Who is paying this doctor , his nurses, paying for supplies.... and on and on and on?

Well in Canada the Taxpayer of course and Canadians in general are very protective of our Canada Health Act. Case in point our drugs are on average 4x cheaper and sometimes as much as 10x cheaper. If Canada didn't have the current Universal Health Care system I would probably be on Wealth-Fare right now and noone in their right mind wants to live on 530 bucks a month. But since our current system keeps my health costs down I can pay rent & eat as well my god what a concept...if I lived in the states I would only be able to pay for Rent and not food or the other way around. So my opinions come directly from personal experiance as well. Personally I don't really care if the US keeps its current system cuz I don't live their, but alot of the Illigals living in my neighborhood are mostly white americans, and they don't cause crimes, lower property value or do anything that you describe. Same with the Mexicans and Cubans that come to live in Canada. Allthough I do believe if an Illigal is caught commiting a crime(other than being an Illigal Alien of course) then they should get deported ASAP. Hope this clears my views up a bit.