We Need To Close US/Mexico Border Now !!

Kix couldnt have explained this better the US wont do anything bout the borders because the government benfits from this. And theyre making money weather or not illegal aliens are coming in or not so in my opinion dontget your hopes up about the government giving a rats @$$ about you.

You have VERY GOOD points but i do have a problem with a few of them.

Originally posted by kix
First. Mexican population has always been high in the southern states because it was mexican territory in the first place. (it was forcefully annexed to the US in the same maner that Saddam did to kuwait-but that another theme).
Second. 95% of the jobs taken by ilegal inmigrants, are low wage jobs and jobs NO american will do (open you regrigerator see the lower part for vegetables and I bet most of them have been picked up by ilegal inmigrants).

These are jobs poor Americans should do which would lower the amount of US's poor and homeless population.

Third: A large Part of the basic economy and the existence of basic jobs and food jobs are worked by Mexican hands.

True but again, these jobs should be preformed by the poor and homeless.

Fourth: MExicans Pay taxes (they have to pay sales tax dont they?) or do you think they live off the air, they buy things in the US and in some years they will be a force in the buying economy (WHY?) because the growth rat e s the highest in the US.....Legal and Ilegal.

Illegals do pay sales tax but not INCOME TAX or Medicare, the two big takers. So when i pay my taxes i am paying for more illegals to cross over to the US and still Poor Tax Paying Americans jobs.

Also between 3 and 5 Mexican die every day crossing arizona (the sonoran-arizona-chihuahua desert is more dangerous and hot then the saudi arabian Desert. So that "easy crossing" is pure BS.

It is not too hard to cross because 1500 illegals are entering everyday

If the situation is so bad WHY THE US DOES NOT CLOSE THE BORDER, is the government Stupid? NNOOO.

the trade with Mexico is more than 35 billion a year the wealth generated by mexican hard work in the south states has not been calculated but by the money the send to Mexico each year (23 to 25 billion) they generate at least 110 billion a year alone and they pay from 8 to 10 billion a year (granted legaly that sum would likely be more like 30 billion), but they make goods for that ammount of $$$.

This is the problem, they send 23-25 billion dollars back home (NOT USA). When Americans make that amount of money, it is taxed and then spent here in the US.

If the Us closed the borders with Canada and Mexico to protect itself (remember that almost 65% of the gas is from MEx and CAN) the gasoline would go to 5 to 6 dollars a galon (like Europe), the trading for more than a 3 billion would go to hell, and All 3 countries would be in REALLY DEEP pork$$$it.

Well im not sure if this would work but, all the money that i and all other Americans pay to; keep illegals alive, send them home, and fix property they have destroyed would go to keeping the cost of fuel and other goods low, just a thought

The prices of food would skyrocket, there would be no janitors, no cleaners, no packers no house keeping, no hotel workers......

Poor and Homeless Americans would work the jobs

A nightmare...SO THEY DO NOT CLOSE THE BORDER because of $$$$$$.....

Check the movie "a Day without mexicans" now at some theaters go see it and then post, surelly itll change your perspective.

IMHO is a very complex problem and trying to solve it with a wall is the same thinking that got you in to war with IRAQ (by the way 5 mexican soldiers have died in combat in the US forces in IraQ so that thing about defending the US is a multinational thing)

You are right, this "is a very complex problem" but like Iraq, we can not stand by and let the problem grow and grow.

NBC nightly news just ran a story about illegals entering the US. This lady rancher took video of large groups of illegals trespassing on her property in their crossing from mexico to the us. She said that they would laugh at her because they knew she could not do anything to them. What happened to being able to protect your own property? She said she was afraid and was armed at all times. This is out of control and something needs to be done.

I agree that income tax is the biggest problem, but you are assuming that poor people and homeless will do those jobs?

Why they havent taken the jobs already?

a) Because they would be payed higher because of labour laws etc.
b) Because the farmers and those employers prifit from their illegal status.
c) Because those homeless and poor can not do and Wont do those jobs.
d) Because if they did the cost of farming, services and basic services-goods would come up 3 or 4 fold.
e) all of the above.

correct answer = e

If you have been to a farm where they grow for example... tomatoes? can a white (no racist thinking here) endure 12 hours in the sun picking up tomatoes? ask a farmer theyll tell you not even black people endure thats why they use mexicans.

Canada has a limited inmigration program, for mexicans to go and pick up harvests of apple and other crops it is permited for 4-5 months and thy get paid, they pay a special salary they have limited benefits and they get their money and they come back to Mexico, guess the Canadians have been more open and wise about the situation (on the crops and farming at least).

I dont mean to be rude or tell you that is funny you are being invaded, but it all boils down to cost/benefit...the day the US does not get a benefit from these situation theyll make a wall, go to war invade, or kill....or say we have WMD.....

Kix, you don�t seem to get it. Most Mexicans that enter the US do so illegally. Get it they are in violation of the law. How would you feel if Americans started to enter Mexico and took your jobs. They do not register or pay taxes. The main advantage is to the big business owners who use and abuse Mexican laborers not the average guy on the street. At the present a lot of the jobs Mexicans take are not even offered to Americans because they will want at least minimum wages and workers comp. So it is not right to say Americans will not take those jobs it is more like they are not even offered those jobs.

[edit on 5-8-2004 by cryptorsa1001]

Originally posted by kix
I agree that income tax is the biggest problem, but you are assuming that poor people and homeless will do those jobs?

Why they havent taken the jobs already?

a) Because they would be payed higher because of labour laws etc.

Its time we do things legit and help out all Americans, not people that sneeak into my country.

b) Because the farmers and those employers profit from their illegal status.

Except the farmers that have to keep putting up fences and repair land illegals destroy everyday. Farmers also pay for the illegals through tax money. Maybe we should cut taxes for farmers and they could use that money to pay Americans to the work.

c) Because those homeless and poor can not do and Wont do those jobs.

They will if we lock them up for begging on the street corners in our major cities (but thats a whole differnent topic). We have to sacrific some of the homeless Americans freedoms, they will beneift in the end.

d) Because if they did the cost of farming, services and basic services-goods would come up 3 or 4 fold.

Like i said, i am paying for illegals with my taxes so whats the difference, the difference. is saftey.

e) all of the above.

correct answer = e

If you have been to a farm where they grow for example... tomatoes? can a white (no racist thinking here) endure 12 hours in the sun picking up tomatoes? ask a farmer theyll tell you not even black people endure thats why they use mexicans.

Yes...white and black people could do those jobs. Before slavery was intruduced whites built this country and after slavery was intruduced, blacks unfortunatley were forced to build the rest of this country. So don't give me that BS. Tax Paying Americans don't do it because we want too much money, it has nothing to do with color or nationality.

Canada has a limited inmigration program, for mexicans to go and pick up harvests of apple and other crops it is permited for 4-5 months and thy get paid, they pay a special salary they have limited benefits and they get their money and they come back to Mexico, guess the Canadians have been more open and wise about the situation (on the crops and farming at least).

One BIG difference, the mexicans entering Canada are entering LEGALLY.

I dont mean to be rude or tell you that is funny you are being invaded, but it all boils down to cost/benefit...the day the US does not get a benefit from these situation theyll make a wall, go to war invade, or kill....or say we have WMD.....

We might invade, we want your oil

[edit on 6-8-2004 by AntiPolitrix]

Personally, I'm not advocating CLOSING the Border...I'm advocating SECURING it.... They are two different things.

If the farmers and other corporations had no illegal aliens to exploit, they'd have to raise the wages for that work. Being in the construction field, I see plenty of whites and blacks out working the asphalt crews, excavation and roofing. It's hard hot work and they do it well, so racial endurance isn't an issue. The issue is, if illegals continue coming in and are available for exploitative treatment, and are willing to accept it, then the employers are not forced into a position to improve working conditions for those jobs and pay a fair wage. By virtue of their availability, the illegal alien upsets the economic structure of the country. I'm not saying that my veggies need to be picked by white or black Americans. I'm saying that if there are ONLY legal workers to choose from, the employers must adhere to a certain standard of treatment when hiring and paying those workers. This would contribute to the betterment of our country and how we do business both internally and externally.

I�ve been watching a show called critical care with Tom Brokaw about health care. One of the segments is about people with no insurance. One of them is an illegal from Mexico. The hospital manager admitted that they have to charge people with insurance more money to cover the costs of the non-insured. I saw on another show someone who had a lien put on their house because they could not pay the bill.

Saturday August 7, 2004

would provide link, but cant

www.jeffrense.com: 7000 Muslims given visas and arriving in Pennsylvania shortly.

Homes, furniture and all provisions will be provided to them. Coming from Russia.

Cibil is at it again..... Oh, i suppose THESE muslims are ok.....
we are now going to support 7000 muslims. (nice muslims, of course)

PLEASE STOP THIS PSYCHO GOVERNMENT NOW!!!!!

im-mexican,if-your-going-to-close-tha-border,then-close-it-up-from-ALL-sides,close-tha-ship-ports,dont-let-no-one-in,because-terrorists-can-come-from- anywhere

Some here do not get it its not me!

Firts of all if you read my original post, I never said that Ilegal Inmigration should be permited (hence the Canadian example of the second post).
Some here say that homless and poor should be locked up and forced to work in "those jobs" taken by ilegals, good luck pal with the fisrt ammendment and the land of the "free" (if you are not homeless and poor-that kind of coments like "we must let some of our freedoms go if we want to be better" GIVE ME CHILLS....

Botom line the US profits from all those ilegal aliens so does Mexico, just think about it: will you pay 3 times as much for the basic foods ?, would you pay minimum wage to janitors and jobs that are worked by Ilegals? (hotel maids for example?- on a side note a hotel in Mexico cost at least twice as one in the US because of labor laws).

I am not endorsing ro happy about criminal activities, all I am saying that big bussines profits from that and that is the bottom line do not turn this thread in to a hate thread.
And one last thought..if you are not a native american you are yourself an inmigrant, maybe third gen or fifth gen but an inmigrant anyways.....just because you got there earlier does not entitle ANYONE to get a hollier that you attitude ( Speaking of LEGALS IN THE US just to clarify)

Originally posted by kix
Some here do not get it its not me!

Firts of all if you read my original post, I never said that Ilegal Inmigration should be permited (hence the Canadian example of the second post).
Some here say that homless and poor should be locked up and forced to work in "those jobs" taken by ilegals, good luck pal with the fisrt ammendment and the land of the "free" (if you are not homeless and poor-that kind of coments like "we must let some of our freedoms go if we want to be better" GIVE ME CHILLS....

Botom line the US profits from all those ilegal aliens so does Mexico, just think about it: will you pay 3 times as much for the basic foods ?, would you pay minimum wage to janitors and jobs that are worked by Ilegals? (hotel maids for example?- on a side note a hotel in Mexico cost at least twice as one in the US because of labor laws).

I am not endorsing ro happy about criminal activities, all I am saying that big bussines profits from that and that is the bottom line do not turn this thread in to a hate thread.
And one last thought..if you are not a native american you are yourself an inmigrant, maybe third gen or fifth gen but an inmigrant anyways.....just because you got there earlier does not entitle ANYONE to get a hollier that you attitude ( Speaking of LEGALS IN THE US just to clarify)

I agree here with you in regards to big (and small) buissnesses. The one point that I would like to make, is that these buissnesses, are not passing the savings that they get from hiring the illegals. They can't! Thjink about it, where are they going to record the monies paid to the illegals? Not on thier tax forms not on thier spreadsheets. The monies saved by these buissnesses are pocketed (as has been pointed out in many of the recent news reports here in Dallas).
So yes, they could turn around and hire only legal employees and still not have to raise the prices to the consumer. Unfortunately they will not do this as they will no longer be getting the extra cash to line their pockets and so will pass on the cost to the consumer.

Originally posted by donguillermo
Totalitarian societies build walls. Free societies tear them down.

Remember the Berlin Wall? Remember Reagan's famous statement, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."

regan didnt have to worry about arab men with inten to kill as many americans as possible just walking into the country from mexico. WE'RE BEING INVADED! the #ing red carpet has been laid out. build the walls to keep em out

the trouble with Islam by a Moslem and hear the truth by a moslem

This is the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

Do you realize how much of that border is just vast desert???

Hundreds of miles!!

It's almost impossible without incresing the taxes to protect that!

This was in todays paper.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Immigrant 'catch-release' policy criticized

Lack of detention space has led to 400,000 fugitives who are 'other than Mexican'

www.chron.com...

Here are a few paragraphs:

In particular, they're worried about what they derisively call the Department of Homeland Security's "capture and release" program.

Brought on by a shortage of detention space, the program allows immigration officials to routinely release tens of thousands of illegal immigrants from countries other than Mexico after extracting a promise from each to show up at a future detention hearing.

Homeland Security officials acknowledge that more than 70 percent of those released disappear from law enforcement's radar, resulting in a fugitive population of 400,000 nationwide.

"I don't think people realize that 15,000 of these people (non-Mexican migrants) have been dumped in communities in Texas in the last eight months," said Republican U.S. Rep. Henry Bonilla, whose district includes nearly 800 miles of the Texas-Mexico border.

Nearly half of non-Mexicans arrested since October 2003 were released on the U.S. side of the border, according to Department of Homeland Security statistics released last week to the Chronicle.

So far this fiscal year, which began Oct. 1, 2003, Homeland Security officials released from Border Patrol custody 21,979 of the 49,705 illegal immigrants from countries other than Mexico, known to the Border Patrol as OTMs, said spokesman Mario Villarreal.

Del Rio Sheriff A. D'Wayne Jernigan is still upset over last month's release of 17 Brazilians who were arrested in Abilene and Sweetwater, and then transferred to his jail.

Jernigan said the immigration officials were set to release the migrants without interviewing them.

Law enforcement officials told Ortiz that among those released were several people who claimed to be from South or Central American countries, but couldn't speak Spanish.

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As you can see this is a big problem. Like i said before if the Coast Guard and Border Patrol cant get the money they need they cant do their job.

As far as releasing people without interviewing them first; the people responsible should be terminated. Releasing people claiming to be from South America that cant speak Spanish! What's up with that?

We definitely have problems coming from near and far.

Immigrating America Into
A Colony Of Mexico
By Frosty Wooldridge
7-5-4

America faces a greater and more dangerous threat from within than from without. While our armed forces secure Afghanistan and Iraq, our own borders stand unguarded 24 hours a day. Al-Qaeda insurgents plan their next attacks somewhere inside our country. They advocate a violent overthrow of America.

We've got an even more ominous enemy within our borders that promotes 'Reconquista of Aztlan' or the reconquest of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas into the country of Mexico. With 9.2 million Mexicans now living in America, their goal of colonizing our country back into Mexico moves forward. A more sobering reality stems from the evidence that it's Mexican-American citizens in the forefront of this disintegration of our country.

What is the evidence? Because of massive immigration from south of the border, more Mexican flags brazenly fly in Los Angeles and surrounding cities than Old Glory. More Spanish speaking radio stations broadcast than English speaking. More people speak foreign languages than English in the City of Angels. More school kids can't speak our national language in California. It's so bad in the Golden Bear State, last year 800,000 Americans fled abrasive conditions growing like a cancer in southern California. Worse, the '18th Street Gang' in Los Angeles features 20,000 members with 60 percent of them being illegal aliens. They coordinate drug traffic, robberies and extortion. Finally, the corruption is so great, 'Special Order 40', augmented by the Los Angeles Police Department, makes it impossible to arrest, detain or deport illegal aliens. Little wonder more than three million operate in California.

But as their numbers grow and their allegiance remains with Mexico, this country is at risk of an internal coup. But the worst danger comes from our own citizens of Mexican heritage. They want our southwestern United States back. Will they take it by violence? Use an army? No! They are colonizing us by sheer numbers. They are the fastest growing ethnic group in America, but they have no allegiance to our country.

They are organized, too. The following are two speeches from a dozen others: Augustin Cebada, Information Minister of Brown Berets, militant para-military soldiers of Aztlan shouting at U.S. citizens at an Independence Day rally in Los Angeles:
"Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets, we're here today to show LA, show the minority people here, the Anglo-Saxons, that we are here, the majority. We do the work in this city, we take care of the spoiled brat children, we clean their offices, we pick the food, we do the manufacturing in the factories of LA, we are the majority here. We're here in Westwood, this is the fourth time we've been here in the last two months, to show white Anglo-Saxon Protestant LA, the few of you who remain, that we are the majority, and we claim this land as ours, it's always been ours, and we're still here, and none of the talk about deporting. If anyone's going to be deported it's going to be you! Go back to Simi Valley, you skunks! Go back to Boston! To back to the Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You're old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you, leave like beaten rats. You old white people, it is your duty to die. Right now we're already controlling those elections by violence or nonviolence. Through love of having children we're going to take over." Other demonstrators: "Raza fuerza (brown race power), this is Aztlan, this is Mexico. They're the pilgrims on our land. Go back to the Nina, the Pinta, the Santa Maria."
If you don't think he's serious about taking over our border states, try this guy on for size: Jose Angel Gutierrez, Professor, University of Texas at Arlington, founder La Raza Party at UC Riverside:
"The border remains a military zone. We remain a hunted people. Now you think you have a destiny to fulfill in the land that historically has been ours for forty thousand years. And we're a new Mestizo nation. And they want us to discuss civil rights. Civil rights. What law made by white men to oppress all of us of color, female and male. This is our homeland. We are not immigrants that came from another country to another country. We are migrants, free to travel the length and breadth of the Americas because we belong here. We are millions. We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. It's a matter of time. The explosion is in our population."
For a sleepy American public and a politically correct Congress, the colonization of America by a foreign country proceeds quietly, pervasively, methodically and perversely. Forty-six Mexican consulates operate and dictate in major cities across our country. Mexico's President Fox visits and makes demands. They're pouring over our borders like water over a broken dam.

Our resources are being drained at $56 billion annually. Immigrants send $15 billion back to Mexico. They send $25 billion back to South America and $16 billion back to Asia. Our annual trade deficit exceeds $400 billion. Over $100 billion in cash flows out of our borders for drugs. We pay billions for illegals in our medical systems, schools and ESL classes. According to Professor Borgas of Harvard, American workers lose $133 billion in wages to illegal aliens taking over American jobs.

"Immigrant advocacy groups no longer promote legal immigration, citizenship, learning English or any other assimilation into this country. Hispanic-rights groups talk of reoccupation and repatriation of the southwestern United States," wrote Linda Bentley in 'Paving the Way to Aztlan: With Propaganda, Politics, Racism.'

Do you want America to be split up? Do you want Texas to become a state of Mexico? Do you want America to become as corrupt as Mexico? Do you want the filth, squalor and diseases of Mexico to become a part of America's reality? Do you want to give up California to Aztlan? Do you want America to become a part of the Third World?

Keep doing nothing about this immigration invasion and you'll get your wish.

Frosty Wooldridge, is a teacher and author who has bicycled 100,000 miles on six continents to see overpopulation up close and ugly. Next book due out in July: 'IMMIGRATION'S UNARMED INVASION - DEADLY CONSEQUENCES'
� Copyright 2004 The Washington Dispatch

Originally posted by Gazrok
Personally, I'm not advocating CLOSING the Border...I'm advocating SECURING it.... They are two different things.

Very well put. It seems like some people just cant grasp that idea.