We Need To Close US/Mexico Border Now !!

�Sh**, you are such an idiot, know your damn geography fool, Canada north, Mexico south Canada dosen't share a freaking border with Mexico!!!!! idiot! I feel for the poor saps who have had their country disgraced by having you in it. Gah! that's just horrible..........arrrg!�

Amur_Tiger, sorry about your IQ score. I have more toes and fingers than you have points on your IQ score. So that me spell things out so that even you might be able to understand what I am saying. A direct highway called the nafta highway is being built between Mexico and Canada. What that means is that it would be relatively easy for the smuggling of Mexican illegals and drugs into Canada through the direct route. If there is increased trucking between Canada and Mexico the population of illegal Mexicans in Canada will surely increase. With the increase on illegals comes more law enforcement and public health assistance.

Right now there is a system being implemented that would help ease the administration of and to facilitate increased trucking traffic between Mexico and Canada.

www.itds.treas.gov...

Anybody that does not think illegal Mexicans in America and soon to be Canada is not a problem then read this article:

www.eagleforum.org...

If you still think that illegals are not a problem after reading the article posted above then all I can say is that your IQ added with Amur_Tigers will roughly be equal to the legal drinking age in America.

Come on yes you say that it only took 19 arab terrorists to create havoc but do u really think mexicans are coming across the border because they WANT to create havoc and destruction of course NOT they just come here because they are looking for an oppurtunity to work.

That isn't even the point. The point is that our enemies can also exploit this weakness (and apparently are doing so) and the gap needs to be closed.

"the only way i see to solve this problem is for mexico to solve its econo9mic problems which could be helpes if the US pardoned some of their debts but thats probably the same as a snowballs chance in hell so the only way would be for a better and stabel economy in mexico just my poiny of view"

Mexico is to blame for Mexico's problems. They need to fix their problems just as we and every other country need to fix ours. As for it being their fault that they were born in a country with no opportunity, just as it is not my choice/fault that I was born in a country with an abundance of it. If their country is unsatisfactory, they can certainly go through the process to enter another country with more opportunity legally and better their lives. Or they can join together and work to make their own country a better, more livable place. These are social/ethical problems. This subject is about legality.

Originally posted by torque
"the only way i see to solve this problem is for mexico to solve its econo9mic problems which could be helpes if the US pardoned some of their debts but thats probably the same as a snowballs chance in hell so the only way would be for a better and stabel economy in mexico just my poiny of view"

Mexico is to blame for Mexico's problems. They need to fix their problems just as we and every other country need to fix ours. As for it being their fault that they were born in a country with no opportunity, just as it is not my choice/fault that I was born in a country with an abundance of it. If their country is unsatisfactory, they can certainly go through the process to enter another country with more opportunity legally and better their lives. Or they can join together and work to make their own country a better, more livable place. These are social/ethical problems. This subject is about legality.

torque I couldn't agree more. I understand why the illegals cross and come over here, obviously its to better their lives. But wouldn't it be better, like torque said, if instead of a few hundred teaming up to plan a journey across the border, they planned "Ok how we can make our country better, just a bit at a time" Obviously change won't come overnight. But they shouldn't just expect that the Mexican (or other) govt will take care of the problems with no help from the general public. Why do the people who cross the border feel that they are "above" going through the legal paperwork? Of course its because they're very likely to be turned away by Immigration if they file, but thats no reason to break the law and sneak in. If you go into a bank and ask for hundreds of dollars, and they say no, it doesn't mean you just sneak in later and take it. Just my two cents. But I think torque said it very well.

"the only way i see to solve this problem is for mexico to solve its econo9mic problems which could be helpes if the US pardoned some of their debts but thats probably the same as a snowballs chance in hell so the only way would be for a better and stabel economy in mexico just my poiny of view"

This still doesn't resolve the issue of miles and miles of undefended border in the post 911 world. We need a damn wall....

Originally posted by nikkerbokker

Originally posted by torque
"the only way i see to solve this problem is for mexico to solve its econo9mic problems which could be helpes if the US pardoned some of their debts but thats probably the same as a snowballs chance in hell so the only way would be for a better and stabel economy in mexico just my poiny of view"

Mexico is to blame for Mexico's problems. They need to fix their problems just as we and every other country need to fix ours. As for it being their fault that they were born in a country with no opportunity, just as it is not my choice/fault that I was born in a country with an abundance of it. If their country is unsatisfactory, they can certainly go through the process to enter another country with more opportunity legally and better their lives. Or they can join together and work to make their own country a better, more livable place. These are social/ethical problems. This subject is about legality.

torque I couldn't agree more. I understand why the illegals cross and come over here, obviously its to better their lives. But wouldn't it be better, like torque said, if instead of a few hundred teaming up to plan a journey across the border, they planned "Ok how we can make our country better, just a bit at a time" Obviously change won't come overnight. But they shouldn't just expect that the Mexican (or other) govt will take care of the problems with no help from the general public. Why do the people who cross the border feel that they are "above" going through the legal paperwork? Of course its because they're very likely to be turned away by Immigration if they file, but thats no reason to break the law and sneak in. If you go into a bank and ask for hundreds of dollars, and they say no, it doesn't mean you just sneak in later and take it. Just my two cents. But I think torque said it very well.

Mexican govt should do something but they wont. A link i posted earlier showed an example of how the Mexican govt doesn't plan to help their own people out. It was about the Mexican Army providing "Cover Fire" for illegals making their way back to the Mexico across the border. Mexican Army was shooting at Americans trying to catch the illegals. The US needs to do something very soon or we might be looking at another attack.

However, I did see something in the news last night about attemps are being made to round up illegals along the Texas/Mexico Border. But that is just a start, because we need to round as many as possible and send them back. What ever happened to "Tresspassers will be shot on site"?

Although that is rough, i've had enough of my tax money going to food stamps and meds for these illegal. A criminal is a criminal either way you look at it. Whether they are here to make money and send it home, or here to steal and send it home they are stealing.If you want to come to America legally, i am all for it, but enter legally.

[edit on 4-8-2004 by AntiPolitrix]

The only real solution is if our elected representatives stand up for us instead of big business. If they use the National Guard from the Border States to patrol their borders, allow police to deport any and all illegals they come across, and to heavily fine any business that uses illegals in this country then the flood of illegals would slow down to a trickle. A guest worker visa system could then be setup to where Mexicans etc.. could sign up for work and would then have to be sponsored by a business and that business would have to pay them at least minimum wage and all taxes would have to be paid as well.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
The only real solution is if our elected representatives stand up for us instead of big business. If they use the National Guard from the Border States to patrol their borders, allow police to deport any and all illegals they come across, and to heavily fine any business that uses illegals in this country then the flood of illegals would slow down to a trickle. A guest worker visa system could then be setup to where Mexicans etc.. could sign up for work and would then have to be sponsored by a business and that business would have to pay them at least minimum wage and all taxes would have to be paid as well.

Yes...that would help out Mexicans looking for opportunity and they would be paying for their stay by paying taxes. Everyone would benefit. I vote for cryptorsa1001 for Texas Rep., or any border state Rep.

to get to the core of the subject, we must first understand who are the major advocates of border regulation...

the nationalists!
they have infiltrated the anti-globalization bandwagon for a reason.

A self-described racist has endorsed California Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante in the California recall election, praising the candidate for being what he calls "a separatist," based on Bustamante's past association with a racist Hispanic organization.

The unusual endorsement by Tom Metzger, former Grand Wizard of the California Ku Klux Klan and director of the White Aryan Resistance, was accompanied by a call for all like-minded Californians to vote for Bustamante in the Oct. 7 election.

Insisting his endorsement is legitimate, Metzger said he hopes that if Bustamante is elected, the issue of immigration and border control will reach a boiling point. [ more ]

[sources]
www.noii.org.uk...
www.nationalist.org...
www.nationalvanguard.org...
www.anu.org...

[edit on 8-4-2004 by echelon]

Originally posted by jmilici
[A lot of Mexicans] consider the western usa as part of mexico. They feel there should not be a border. That is the general feeling amongst alot of mexicans. Not all but alot. I am completely against amnesty and think all illegal aliens regardless of ethnicity should be deported. Before giving amnesty we need to fix our current problems withen the borders.

I agree 100%, and the whole "We Didn't Cross The Border, The Border Crossed Us" movement is my biggest concern. Claims like that are tantamount to trying to start a revolution, or a civil war...

P.S. -- What's wrong with "nationalism"? I love the United States, and enjoy visiting and learning about other countries. Loving your country doesn't mean you're supposed to hate all the others... that's a socialist myth.

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
P.S. -- What's wrong with "nationalism"? I love the United States, and enjoy visiting and learning about other countries. Loving your country doesn't mean you're supposed to hate all the others... that's a socialist myth.

(white) nationalism and patriotism are two different things.
a very common and dangerous misconception.

go to the provided links!

/forum/showthread.php?t=94771]white nationalism and immigration

[edit on 8-4-2004 by echelon]

I have heard reports on a local readio show today that at the rate of which mexicans are moving into America (illegally) that they will have bred themselves into the majority of the population of America by 2023. The report was showing that young hispanic girls age 16-18 average 4.3 children, while young white girls of the same age only average 1.3 children. (I dont have a link or anything; like I said, just heard it on a local radio show)

Now I'm not a racist, or a bigot, and have no problem with legal immigration, but that statistic is a bit amazing IMO.

Main Entry: na�tion�al�ism
Pronunciation: 'nash-n&-"li-z&m, 'na-sh&-n&l-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

I guess I can fall into this category because I see no problem with being devoted and loyal to your country/nation and promoting it above all others. Especially when it comes to focusing on securing it against illegal entry and attacks from external sources. It's not a question of race or separatism. And I feel the same way about internal, American criminals. They're worse for our country than those trying to slip in under the radar. Since they're citizens they can't be deported, but I wouldn't mind finding an island to exile them to.

Originally posted by torque
I guess I can fall into this category because I see no problem with being devoted and loyal to your country/nation and promoting it above all others.

I agree. What is wrong with loving your home? If I thought it was such a horrible place, I would leave and go to a land of my liking, one that I would be happy to become a part of, to live in, and to participate in. I love my country like I love my parents. They may not have been perfect (who is, anyway?), but I love them nonetheless and wouldn't trade them for anyone else in the world.

American criminals. They're worse for our country than those trying to slip in under the radar. Since they're citizens they can't be deported, but I wouldn't mind finding an island to exile them to.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could pawn off our undesireables on other countries? Mexico seems to be shipping their lower class here, and Castro opened some of his prisons and let the former inmates raft their way to Miami. But that won't happen.



[align=center][/align]

Originally posted by donguillermo
You will excuse me if I don't think it is a serious issue. It is silly because no wall is ever going to be built, and there will always be millions of illegal aliens in this country, unless a real amnesty is granted, and they are all given green cards. The Democrats won't kick them out and keep them out, because Latinos are an important political constituency of the Democratic Party. The Republicans won't do anything about the problem, because farmers and business owners are addicted to low-cost labor by illegal aliens. Needless to say, farmers and business owners are an important political constituency of the Republican Party.

Then both parties have sold us up the river, and we're screwed. We need two new parties to completely replace these two parties! Maybe the Libertarian and Constitution parties? Who knows. But if something isn't done, the stability of this country will start to falter in the near future (if it's not doing so already)...

What do you think would happen to Bush or Kerry if they got up and said, "I will close the U.S.-Mexico border and deport all illegal aliens, and put the National Guard on the border to both guard it and build a wall!" Would they win big in November? Would they lose big in November? Would they be shot?

The border has been a very strong opinion of mine from the get go here. Bush is being a pandering pvssy when it comes to our ultra-porous borders, especially the Mexican one. And it all comes down to politricks! We wouldn't want to OFFEND and of the Mexicans. That may result in fewer votes in November from America's not-so-minority-anymore, AKA Hispanics.

This is freekin' B.S.

Just recently, an Al-Qaeda operative was arrested in Texas!

www.wtopnews.com...

Guess where they entered the United States??????????????????????????

Look, the border patrol is out numbered. CLOSE IT DOWN!

Originally posted by sardion2000
Umm if the US closed their borders then your economy will collapse. No offence but this has to be one of the dumbest ideas i've heard in a while... No one in and no one out. Sound familiar?

Actually, if we closed the US-Mexico border it would eventually raise the standard of living for US�born citizens in all sorts of jobs. Don't you know that the US�Mexico
border is presently open so that businesses can reap larger short�term profits at the expense of our future economy? Our citizens need to learn that if we want to remain the US, we have to realize that there is really no such thing as "cheap" labor.

as long as big business makes our world go round no border will be shut down, and if you think that shutting down the border will prevent terrorists from entering our country ...............think again.

Not just Bush... all the presidents have let us down on this issue.

I don't see how granting amnesty and giving them all green cards will solve anything. All it will do is show the ones considering slipping across that if they stay here and get away with it long enough, we'll "solve the problem" by giving in and letting them stay legally. That's not an effective way to deal with crime, in my view. It won't be a deterrent to those who are going to try to sneak in here, it will only give them the incentive to try harder to go undetected long enough for the next amnesty to come along.

The US is always to blame somehow, in some people's eyes, and that amazes me. If we do intervene in a situation involving another country, we're told that we're overstepping and we should stay out of it. No matter what our agenda is, we're accused of having a different, hidden agenda. If we do nothing, we're accused of doing nothing because of a different hidden agenda and of being insensitive to countries who aren't as fortunate as we are. We can't win no matter what we do. Personally, I don't care about the opinion of the rest of the world. They can like us or not, it's irrelevant.

It's a long thread... was it Skadi who said somewhere to bring all troops home from everywhere and string them along the borders? Maybe we should. Maybe we should turn our eyes inward and our backs to the world. Let them do what they want while we spend our money here at home, clean up our own country and spend the next decade beefing up our own bank account and military. If we put all of our effort, money and manpower into our own country, and to hell with the rest of the world, we could be REALLY scary in 10 or 15 years.

I have read the whole thread i I am sad that your goverment has succeded in keeping you in fear of terrorist attacks the whole 24/7.

First I am Mexican, I have traveled to the US since 1972 (to disneyland and CA.) when I was 9. I have been to the US contless times ever since and trveled by car to more than 15 states.

These are facts I have noticed MYSELF, no google BS and thing like that.

From 1975 to 1985 you hardly see any latinos (mexican or not) anywhere, if you could fing them was in the farmers fields etc.
From 1985 to 1995 the explosion in growth was incredible!! in 1989 I was in Miami and entered a MacDonalds and the (cuban) women at the counter did not speak english!!! then it happened again in 1992 in santa Monica at the Burger king the english was so bad i could barely understand her so I spoke in spanish....Funny? NOOOOO.

I speak english perfectly no accent etc, and I am not dark skinned so very often in the US everyone is surprised that I am Mexican, and quite often dark skinned people turn away from me (they must think I am from the US).

From 1995 to today the inmigration LEGAL OR ILLEGAL is amazing, there are towns and parts of cities where you never listen to english anymore!!!.....Like one in Chicago were a very nice looking woman (again at a Burger King) hit a long conversation with me (the place was almost empty), after like 20 minutes I told her I was from Mexico and she told she was from Hungary, but she was blond and blue eyed so it was easy for her to "stay".....

Do you have a problem? YES YOU DO.

Do I think the borders should be closed and illegal status more prosecuted, YES. In Mexico the laws for ilegal inmagrtion are quite though (5 years in Prison for anybody who knowingly hires ilegals)..

But there are a lot of facts you are ignoring and are the cause for this problem.

First. Mexican population has always been high in the southern states because it was mexican territory in the first place. (it was forcefully annexed to the US in the same maner that Saddam did to kuwait-but that another theme).
Second. 95% of the jobs taken by ilegal inmigrants, are low wage jobs and jobs NO american will do (open you regrigerator see the lower part for vegetables and I bet most of them have been picked up by ilegal inmigrants).
Third: A large Part of the basic economy and the existence of basic jobs and food jobs are worked by Mexican hands.
Fourth: MExicans Pay taxes (they have to pay sales tax dont they?) or do you think they live off the air, they buy things in the US and in some years they will be a force in the buying economy (WHY?) because the growth rat e s the highest in the US.....Legal and Ilegal.

Also between 3 and 5 Mexican die every day crossing arizona (the sonoran-arizona-chihuahua desert is more dangerous and hot then the saudi arabian Desert. So that "easy crossing" is pure BS.

If the situation is so bad WHY THE US DOES NOT CLOSE THE BORDER, is the government Stupid? NNOOO.

the trade with Mexico is more than 35 billion a year the wealth generated by mexican hard work in the south states has not been calculated but by the money the send to Mexico each year (23 to 25 billion) they generate at least 110 billion a year alone and they pay from 8 to 10 billion a year (granted legaly that sum would likely be more like 30 billion), but they make goods for that ammount of $$$.

If the Us closed the borders with Canada and Mexico to protect itself (remember that almost 65% of the gas is from MEx and CAN) the gasoline would go to 5 to 6 dollars a galon (like Europe), the trading for more than a 3 billion would go to hell, and All 3 countries would be in REALLY DEEP pork$$$it.
The prices of food would skyrocket, there would be no janitors, no cleaners, no packers no house keeping, no hotel workers......

A nightmare...SO THEY DO NOT CLOSE THE BORDER because of $$$$$$.....

Check the movie "a Day without mexicans" now at some theaters go see it and then post, surelly itll change your perspective.

IMHO is a very complex problem and trying to solve it with a wall is the same thinking that got you in to war with IRAQ (by the way 5 mexican soldiers have died in combat in the US forces in IraQ so that thing about defending the US is a multinational thing)