We Need To Close US/Mexico Border Now !!

Originally posted by donguillermo
Totalitarian societies build walls. Free societies tear them down.

Remember the Berlin Wall? Remember Reagan's famous statement, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."

You must have forgot that the walls were built to keep people in and not out. Get your facts straight. I have noticed from your previous posts that you accuse people of putting a spin on comments and you then do the same thing that makes you a hypocrite.

We need to know who is coming into this country. Border control should be a national security priority. It's to bad we couldn't put a few predators up to patrol the border with Mexico. All we would have to do is take out a few illegals with the predator's hellfire missiles and that would pretty much stop illegal immigration.

[edit on 2-8-2004 by cryptorsa1001]

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
What about trade? We stop that too....

The only trade it would prevent would be illegal trade -- in drugs and weapons, and sex slaves (unfortunately, yes, there are real cases of this). The legal trading of goods would continue as usual. Sounds good to me!

I think the problem is even worse than many realize; there are over 10 million people illegally in the U.S. right now, and over 70% of them are from Mexico (over 90% of them are from Latin America in general; I think the reason for these numbers is obvious -- the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans prevent mass illegal immigration from Asia, Europe, and Africa, while the U.S. has a land border with Mexico, and thus, Latin America). And the numbers keep going up. Unlike legal immigrants, illegals here in the U.S. (I don't even like using the term "immigrants" to describe them because they're breaking the law just by being here; it does a disservice to those who immigrate here legally) have no intention of becoming a part of the U.S. in either language or culture. In fact, many are openly hostile to the U.S., as people living in southern California can testify.

The "La Raza" ('the race' in Spanish) is a racist movement that has been gaining momentum. It is to Hispanics what the KKK are to white Americans and the Black Panthers are to black Americans (hate is hate, no matter the source). And worse, within that movement is another movement -- the "Aztlan" movement. They say on their own websites (sometimes in Spanish, sometimes in English) that they hate whites and blacks, Jews, "European society" in general, call themselves the "chosen race," and want nothing less than to give the southwestern U.S. back to Mexico. "Aztlan" is based on lies (history is easy when you make it up) and literally demands that the southwestern U.S. (TX, NM, AZ, CA, UT, CO) be "given back" to Mexico a la the 1845-1848 Mexican-American War.

aztlan.net...

larazaunida.tripod.com...

ccir.net...

(just a few sample web sites of many)

I fear that, as the "Aztlan" movement grows, it's only going to be a matter of time before the extremists start resorting to desperate tactics, like terrorism, to force their ideas out in the open. The U.S. will then have a situation simliar to the Basques in Spain, or Northern Ireland, as a couple of random examples.

Most people don't realize how serious the situation is. Remember, there are 10 million illegals in the U.S. -- to put that in perspective, there are 18 million New Yorkers, 20 million Texans, and 35 million Californians... Also, 43 of the 50 States have less than 10 million people. What will be the spark that will start a mini-revolution of sorts that will make the horrific riots of the 1960's look tame in comparison?

The U.S.-Mexico border needs to have a huge wall built across it -- even the Rio Grande part -- now. The only way in or out should be through legal ports of entry. The U.S. Border Patrol also needs to be increased by a factor of 10 (in resources, manpower, everything). While this problem doesn't exist at the U.S.-Canada border, that border needs to be closely monitored as well...


[edit on 8/2/2004 by ThunderCloud]

Nah, just fill ditches with nuclear waste and maybe toxic waste all the way from the Gulf to the Pacific.(leave about 10 yards between the ditch and beach, so as not to poison any of the water). Plant motion detectors all along the border, if one goes off, then either an automated turrent will target, or even perhaps it just activiates electrofied grid along the edges of the ditch. Leave a few roads (shielded from radiation) to allow for imports and exports. No walls are being put up, anyone who thinks they can get across are welcome to try, otherwise simply get your paperwork on the order, turn it in at one of the shielded offices, and leave across in a shielded vehicle as a legalized American(or Mexican if you are going the other way.) This also releases pressure on certain issues, nuke waste disposal options are increased, adds jobs to the economy, slight exercise in technological advancement (although we can do it now, I can foresee some advances that would make the whole system, much more bearable..), border patrol are not as strained, military can focus on other defensive needs, since this doesn't impede any kind of trade, then it shouldn't effect either economy much. just a thunk

[edit on 2-8-2004 by Crysstaafur]

I am continually amazed at the degree of violent solutions offered for Americas problems on this site. So many of the Americans here seem to have psychopathology I think building a wall is a great idea, to protect those poor b@stards living next to you.

My wife pointed this out to me...
A wall to keep someone out, also keeps someone in.

But it's really all just a matter of perspective I think. And from where I'm standing... looks pretty good to me!

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
My wife pointed this out to me...
A wall to keep someone out, also keeps someone in.

But it's really all just a matter of perspective I think. And from where I'm standing... looks pretty good to me!

Now why you'd want to keep your own people in is beyond me. I'd rather be allowed to travel freely then be boxed into my own country.

Originally posted by Linux
Now why you'd want to keep your own people in is beyond me. I'd rather be allowed to travel freely then be boxed into my own country.

A wall along the U.S.-Mexico border would not 'trap' people living inside the U.S., anymore than a fence around your yard would 'trap' you inside your own house. Whether or not you're allowed in another country once you leave the U.S. it totally up to the country you're going to (as it should be). The same should apply here in the U.S. as well.

Look if Mexicans want to come to America that is fine as long as they do so legally. When they get a job legally, they pay taxes and do not lower the wages for people who are already Americans. When I worked construction the superintendant of one of the bigger housing projects had a group of illegal mexicans working as roofers. He had them live in his basement so he could control how long they worked, usually 14 hours a day 6 days a week. If they would legally migrate they could be protected from predatory employers and the working class in the US would be protected as well.

People commenting from outside of the US do not really know how we feel in the US. When you have illegal immigration into your country that costs you money and jobs then you will know how we feel. Untill then do not put us down for our comments.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001

Originally posted by donguillermo
Totalitarian societies build walls. Free societies tear them down.

Remember the Berlin Wall? Remember Reagan's famous statement, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."

You must have forgot that the walls were built to keep people in and not out. Get your facts straight. I have noticed from your previous posts that you accuse people of putting a spin on comments and you then do the same thing that makes you a hypocrite.

I have my facts straight. My statements stand. Totalitarian societies build walls. Free societies tear down walls. Do you really think I wasn't aware that the Berlin Wall was built to keep people in??? That has nothing to do with the accuracy of my statements.

You really shouldn't use big words like "hypocrite" when you don't know what they mean. A hypocrite is someone whose actions contradict their beliefs. Please explain exactly what I am spinning in my quote which you quoted.

Originally posted by donguillermo

I have my facts straight. My statements stand. Totalitarian societies build walls. Free societies tear down walls.

Except Israel, and South Korea, Franklin Roosevelt...and, oh yeah, California

[edit on 4-8-2004 by gurnio]

Originally posted by donguillermo
Totalitarian societies build walls. Free societies tear down walls.

Where did you read that?

Originally posted by gurnio

Originally posted by donguillermo

I have my facts straight. My statements stand. Totalitarian societies build walls. Free societies tear down walls.

Except Israel,... oh yeah and Franklin Roosevelt...

Well, Israel is not a totalitarian society, but it certainly is a national security state, forced into that role by Palestinian terrorism. What wall did Franklin Roosevelt build to keep people out or in? Educate me. Are you talking about the internment camps for citizens of Japanese ancestry during World War II?

Originally posted by ThunderCloud

Originally posted by donguillermo
Totalitarian societies build walls. Free societies tear down walls.

Where did you read that?

LOL. I didn't read it anywhere. It was my spontaneous composition.

Originally posted by donguillermo
What wall did Franklin Roosevelt build to keep people out or in? Educate me. Are you talking about the internment camps for citizens of Japanese ancestry during World War II?

I can't educate you DG, you're smarter than me. Remember, you told me so.

I think we can agree that internment camps kept people in and Executive Order 9066 kept people out.

But I guess its O.K. if a democrat does it...

i don't think building any kind of comprehensive wall, on either the us/mexico or us/canada borders, is remotely possible, in a purely technical sense.

and do we really want to be the type of society that lives fenced off from our neighbors? seems like it would be pointless anyway, at least regarding terrorists. it just takes one, and that one would be the most determined and most resourceful to get in. i think we should focus more on cooperating with our neighbors to solve these problems.

-koji K.

[edit on 2-8-2004 by koji_K]

Originally posted by gurnio

Originally posted by donguillermo
What wall did Franklin Roosevelt build to keep people out or in? Educate me. Are you talking about the internment camps for citizens of Japanese ancestry during World War II?

I can't educate you DG, you're smarter than me. Remember, you told me so.

Since you like semantic distinctions, here is another one. I didn't tell you I was smarter than you. In response to your obviously patronizing comments directed at me, I told you I sincerely doubted that you were at my level of intelligence. That certainly leaves open the possibility of your being smarter than me.

I think we can agree that internment camps kept people in and Executive Order 9066 kept people out.

You are going to live to regret ever starting a semantic argument with me. Didn't the internment camps have fences with barbed wire? If so, need I point out to you that a fence is not a wall?

WTF is Executive Order 9066? Just tell me, don't tell me to Google it. Whatever it is, unless it ordered the construction of a physical wall, it does not qualify as an example in this discussion, since, from my first post in this silly thread, I have clearly been talking about physical walls.

But I guess its O.K. if a democrat does it...

Just had to get in some gratuitous Democrat bashing, didn't you?


[edit on 8/2/2004 by donguillermo]

Originally posted by donguillermo
...Since, from my first post in this silly thread, I have clearly been talking about physical walls...

Why is this thread silly? It's dealing with a very serious issue.

Originally posted by AntiPolitrix


Does anyone have any info on the Border with Canada in regards to illegals crossing over to the US? I don't think border is a problem because its hard enough to get a package through Customs in Canada.

Yes , my last business partner was an illegal Canuk , they basicaly get asked their destination , and have a friend and a known phone # to justify their "visit" if needed . After working for several months and getting called home to tend to family matters my ex buddie would just say "road trip" . Your country is great , loved the sites , yadayadayada ... and they are back home lickity split .

The border spends more time with them when they leave then when they come in . They are more concerned about cheap American liquor making its way north and other highly taxed (Canadian) items sneaking in than actually why someone has been here for 6 months with no (alleged)
income .

They basicaly just drive on in , make some money , send it home thru snail mail , and go home and instantly have 30% more canadian cash . (A greeting card printed on foil with a few c-notes tucked in is all thats needed to throw off any metal detectors looking for the magnetic thread in our $$)

originally posted by donguillermo

If so, need I point out to you that a fence is not a wall?

A fence is not a wall?

The crux of your objection is that FDR built fences not walls?

You're kidding me right?

I thought you were better than that.


Edit:washed with bleach to defeat detection by Luminol.

[edit on 2-8-2004 by gurnio]

Originally posted by ThunderCloud

Originally posted by donguillermo
...Since, from my first post in this silly thread, I have clearly been talking about physical walls...

Why is this thread silly? It's dealing with a very serious issue.

You will excuse me if I don't think it is a serious issue. It is silly because no wall is ever going to be built, and there will always be millions of illegal aliens in this country, unless a real amnesty is granted, and they are all given green cards. The Democrats won't kick them out and keep them out, because Latinos are an important political constituency of the Democratic Party. The Republicans won't do anything about the problem, because farmers and business owners are addicted to low-cost labor by illegal aliens. Needless to say, farmers and business owners are an important political constituency of the Republican Party.