After Serving Two Tours in Iraq, Ex Marine is Killed in Own Home by SWAT Team

reply to post by areyouserious2010


rarely do people read beyond a headline before forming a conclusion.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by Anusuia

 

Read the article. The search warrant was attempted at 9:00 AM.

So all this about "dead of night raid like theives in the night" stuff is totally wrong.

If you think he was murdered by the government because he knew something that is one thing. I would disagree with you. But at least read the article and know all the facts first.

OMG...are you one of the SWAT members involved?

There's no justification for this case, everything you have listed is ineffective flailing. What, they opened fire then ran and hid behind their vehicles, scared to assess the scene?

As the story is presented, the cops are at fault plain and simple. If there is a such thing as justice in this country all members of that SWAT should be fired and inprisoned.

No coming through a door and being confronted by a man with a rifle is not reason to release 71 bullets! The guy didn't fire OR return fire! Even if they did feel their actions were justified, upon cease of fire they should have immediately accessed the situation, secured the scene and hand-cuffed the suspect. You do not just stand around and let someone bleed out for an hour. If for no other reason they should be fired for that!

Can't really even blaime the guy for arming himself. When SWAT or any drug/warrant task force come, they do NOT come with lights and horns blaring. I have personally experienced this and can tell you, after staging they deploy to the target and descend upon the property as quickly and quietely as possible. They give 1, 2, knocks, announce "POLICE" once, give a second or two and then breach the door.

In my personal experience, I nearly caused a fire-fight because when they breached my door, my companions who were right up by the door ran to the rear of the house yelling we were being robbed and to grab the guns. So according to them, the police didn't announce themselves even once, just knocked and smashed the front door. The front door only led to the porch and then another door that needed to be breached.

So while they were breaching both front doors, I had done grabbed a assault rifle and was preparing to start letting RIP through the walls! I think with dread of what would have happened had I done that! The police would have riddled the house with bullets! All of this because, the police don't WANT to announce police too loudly! They don't want to give the dealer time to flush the product.

This guy was sleep after a 12 hour shift...next thing he knows, his wife is waking him up saying there are men in masks with guns outside. Well, he isn't a drug dealer so he didn't think, "Oh, that must be the police". I've been a dealer and that wasn't the first thing I would think! So he grabs his rifle and takes up a stance waiting on the intruders to breach his door. They kick the door in and he (like someone who's actually trained) waited to verify his target, didn't want to make any mistakes. The police on the other hand, like a pack of scared lil girls, see a guy with a gun, someone yells, "Ol ####!" and they all begin firing with their eyes closed. 911 is called and EMT arrive within 5 minutes. For whatever reason, the police don't allow the EMT's to treat the victim. They're all walking around outside looking each other in the eye nervously, and trying to get their story straight.

They should all be fired and inprisoned...

reply to post by DZAG Wright


You are correct. They do not roll up to the house with lights and siren blaring. It takes away the element of surprise. One, it allows criminals to arm themselves and prepare for the police. Two, it allows criminals to destroy the evidence that the police are attempting to recover.

How many search warrants have you been involved in. Claiming you know the process after being involved in one search warrant is hardly inside information.

The reason you were not sure it was the police is because you were a drug dealer. In the life of dealing drugs, the home invasion is a tactic used by other criminals to rob drug dealers of either drugs or money. The reason most home invasions are perpetrated agains drug dealers is due to the fact that you can count on a drug dealer having a lot of one of two things in his or her home. DRUGS or MONEY. Staging a home invasion against a regular person just doesnt make sense. If you want their big screen television or something else, a criminal could just wait until the house is unoccupied and then break in and take it without violence. Drug dealers make it a point to protect their drugs and money. So breaking in and taking it without violence is not possible.

In your case, they may have had inside information saying you had the assault weapons you said you grabbed. In that case, they may apply for a "no knock" warrant in order to maintain the element of surprise.
If the police can show in their probable cause a predisposition to violence or access to firearms, the judge can order a "no knock" for the safety of the police.

The article, or the many follow ups, show that they may have fired 71 times but only struck him once. In the execution of a search warrant, if the police come across a person pointing a firearm at them they will open fire. I do not see what the problem with that is. Why should the police have to wait for someone to shoot at them to open fire? Then it is already too late.

I already went over the reason the medical personnel were not allowed into the residence in previous posts. Go back and read them.

I would submit that, while your experiences as a drug dealer offer some inside knowledge, your opinions on subjects like this are skewed to far to one side. One that makes it a business to break the law, enacted by the people, and combat the police who uphold that law can not be trusted to make unbiased opinions on matters such as these.

Is it just me or is America going down the drain fast?

Rights....gone
Freedom......gone

What is next.At this point lawmakers are talking about not even allowing you to smoke in your own car

Seriously, I live in America and I don't know what freedom is

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

You are correct. They do not roll up to the house with lights and siren blaring. It takes away the element of surprise. One, it allows criminals to arm themselves and prepare for the police. Two, it allows criminals to destroy the evidence that the police are attempting to recover.

How many search warrants have you been involved in. Claiming you know the process after being involved in one search warrant is hardly inside information.

The reason you were not sure it was the police is because you were a drug dealer. In the life of dealing drugs, the home invasion is a tactic used by other criminals to rob drug dealers of either drugs or money. The reason most home invasions are perpetrated agains drug dealers is due to the fact that you can count on a drug dealer having a lot of one of two things in his or her home. DRUGS or MONEY. Staging a home invasion against a regular person just doesnt make sense. If you want their big screen television or something else, a criminal could just wait until the house is unoccupied and then break in and take it without violence. Drug dealers make it a point to protect their drugs and money. So breaking in and taking it without violence is not possible.

In your case, they may have had inside information saying you had the assault weapons you said you grabbed. In that case, they may apply for a "no knock" warrant in order to maintain the element of surprise.
If the police can show in their probable cause a predisposition to violence or access to firearms, the judge can order a "no knock" for the safety of the police.

The article, or the many follow ups, show that they may have fired 71 times but only struck him once. In the execution of a search warrant, if the police come across a person pointing a firearm at them they will open fire. I do not see what the problem with that is. Why should the police have to wait for someone to shoot at them to open fire? Then it is already too late.

I already went over the reason the medical personnel were not allowed into the residence in previous posts. Go back and read them.

I would submit that, while your experiences as a drug dealer offer some inside knowledge, your opinions on subjects like this are skewed to far to one side. One that makes it a business to break the law, enacted by the people, and combat the police who uphold that law can not be trusted to make unbiased opinions on matters such as these.

Ok so you admit they don't roll up with the lights and music...this was a point being argued earlier in this thread that the guy should have known it was the police.

It's highly exaggerated about drug dealers arming themselves and preferring to shoot it out with police. I've met many dealers and never one that had the attitude of shooting it out with the police. That mentality is usually for people who have committed a real crime like murder.

Not claiming I know the procedure, just giving my experience because there was too much false information being given.

Regular civilians do suffer from home invasions and if i'm not mistaken, the article stated the area was suffering from that crime at the time of this incident. Just as home invasions were popular in my area for a while.

What happened to ordering someone to drop their weapon? I'd like to know how many officers were involved to get a average of how many shots each one fired.

No, you never offered anything of substance regarding the medical personnel being held back. You're correct that medical personnel aren't allowed into dangerous unsecured situations...but this situation was secured. If not why wasn't it? As a officer you don't fire 71 shots and then fall back to hide behind your car for over an hour!

A law enacted by what people? Does anyone here remember being asked if they wanted drugs made illegal and punishable by inprisonment or death? I do not! So what people enacted this law...or was the law enacted for us and we simply accepted it. I'm not biased toward either side, I have peoples that are police and I have peoples that are dealers.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


We can agree that the police do not typically roll up to the house where they are serving a search warrant with lights and sirens. But seeing the officers in tactical gear that says POLICE on it and them yelling POLICE SEARCH WARRANT would have given a reasonable person the hint.

We can agree that most drug dealers do not typically prefer to shoot it out with the police because it is not worth it. Just because none of your associates have not done it does not mean it does not happen.

I did not say home invasions never happen. They are few and far between. And the incidence of police impersonators commiting these home invasions is even fewer and further betweem. Actually they are probably under reported because the "victims" are drug dealers and do not want to involve the police.

If the person is not pointing the rifle at you, then by all means order them to drop the weapon and see what happens. If they are pointing the rifle at you, then it is already too late and no order is necessary.

What is the significance of how many shots were fired by each officer? It has no bearing on the situation. If someone is pointing a rifle at a police officer what is the difference between firing one shot and firing one hundred?

The police were NOT standing over him watching him bleed to death and telling the medics to wait.

If the guy was hit once and retreated into a room and out of sight, the SWAT team is not going to rush into the room. Especially when he was already seen with a rifle. It is a stand off at that point. If no clues were given that he had become incapacitated, or injured in the first place, then the police would not have known that he succumb to his injuries. Until the situation was determined safe, the medics were put on hold.

The laws are enacted by the legislative body of your state. The elected officials in the legislative body are directly elected by the people. If you disagree with the way your elected officials vote when passing those laws, start a campaign to let them know you do not agree, have them removed from office or ask for the law to be voted on by special referendum which means you can vote directly on the issue. If popular support is with you, then you should have no problem doing that. Obviously, more people do not want drugs legalized right now so they stay illegal.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by jessejamesxx

 

Making your font size larger does not make you right.

What does it matter how many times they shot him? He was pointing a rifle at them. I would have to say that there is an "oh s***" factor when you come across someone pointing a rifle at you.

The medical personnel first have to be summoned, then they have to be sure the scene is safe before sending in the medics to render aid. The medics get paid to treat wounded and will not enter a location before it is rendered safe.

How do you know what the situation was? Maybe he was shot and got into a room where they could not see him to determine if he was incapacitated or not. You were not there so you do not know.

You're correct, making the font bigger didn't make me correct. Stating facts made me correct.

Same question back at you. How do you know what the situation was? How do you automatically assume that after 71 rounds fired that the man was still a threat that they haven't disarmed? Is it because they didn't send the medics in? If so, that's some circular logic.

If he was still a threat, the police would have used this as an excuse for not sending medics in. They would have said that there was a stand off for an hour, and the situation wasn't safe. Given that nothing like that was reported, it most likely didn't happen.

Imagine for a moment if we had lost at least 50,000 innocents as collateral in police operations in hte past 8 years. That's what has happened in Iraq. War is 100x worse than this whether the war is right or not. If you're going to complain, just make sure that you're making sense first.

There's no US justice system in Iraq. We can't possibly have a case for every problem, every death, every bullet fired. We would immediately go bankrupt. That's why they say war is hell. War isn't even justice. It may be the right thing to do, in the sense that we survive or kill a madman, but it's never justice because too many innocents die in the process.

I may make some people mad, but I think soldiers are worse than police. We watch police. We have a justice system that thrives on putting people behind bars. While soldiers can hide in foreign countries. I respect both soldiers and cops because I believe they serve different roles. Soldiers face things police can only dream of. But to say that cops shoot more indiscriminately is incorrect. Police just like soldiers are humans. Every human on earth makes mistakes.

In war, the chaos, the desperation, just increases the amount of mistakes we make. This SWAT team probably went there based on information. Just like a unit in Iraq would. When they saw that gun, assuming they did, they would have to shoot just like any other officer would or even soldiers would. Basically, nobody wants this, but it happens. Sh** happens. If more of it was on TV maybe we wouldn't have fought this war the same way or maybe SWAT teams wouldn't be storming peoples homes with semi-automatics and bullet-proof vests.

Disband that SWAT Team and put them ALL on trial. What did they take from the home? Why did they first off find reason to invade a Marine's home? What did that Marine do or know about overseas that could have gotten him killed, or silenced? These are the questions that need to be asked and I pray for that poor wife and child left without a Dad because of the irresponsibility of those officers.

PROTECT and SERVE! WTF changed that? Transformers showed it was 'cool' to 'Protect and Enslave'?

Originally posted by THEDUDE86
Is it just me or is America going down the drain fast?

Rights....gone
Freedom......gone

What is next.At this point lawmakers are talking about not even allowing you to smoke in your own car

Seriously, I live in America and I don't know what freedom is

As an American Citizen, you are free to:
Work
Pay Taxes
Submit to Tyranny
Submit to the Will of Obama and his cronies
Submit to the all powerful and uneducated police states
Live in Fear
Persecute the Majority
Honor the Minority
Go to Prison
Live in ignorance
Watch the News
Eat Sh!t
Die.

the obambi administration is already on record demonizing veterans...

The power goes to the heads of some of these police.
How can they try to justify these unlawful shootings.

I dont know if this video has been posted before i have had a look. Anyone know what eventually happened to this officer i am having difficulty tracking that info down.

CHINO, Calif. -- A videotape released Tuesday shows a sheriff's deputy shooting an unarmed Air Force policeman who recently returned from Iraq as he appeared to obey an order to get up off the ground. KTLA-TV broadcast a 40-second clip it said came from a Chino resident who videotaped Sunday night's shooting, which followed a 100 mph car chase. Senior Airman Elio Carrion, 21, was listed in good condition at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center in Colton. He was shot three times in the chest, ribs and leg, his father-in-law, Ernesto Paz, told KTLA-TV. State and federal investigators are reviewing the case, officials said. Carrion was a passenger in a Corvette that crashed following a brief chase, authorities said. Amateur photographer Jose Luis Valdez told The Associated Press that he made the video after the car crashed into the wall in front of his home. KTLA aired the videotape early Tuesday, then distributed it later in the day. The dark, grainy picture shows Carrion lying on the ground next to the car, talking to a silhouetted officer who is pointing a gun at him. Carrion supports himself on one arm and his face is brightly lit by the officer's flashlight. Carrion is heard telling the officer he is unarmed and is in the military. At one point, a voice is heard saying several times: "Get up." Carrion says: "I'm gonna get up." As he rises, at least four shots are fired and Carrion collapses, crying out in pain. "Shots fired! Shots fired!" someone shouts. In a telephone interview conducted in Spanish, Valdez said after the shooting, Carrion asks the deputy, "Why did you shoot me if you told me to stand up?" That alleged exchange cannot be heard on the video. The deputy, whose name was not released, was placed on paid administrative leave, a routine procedure in officer-involved shootings. Carrion was not charged with a crime, although the incident remained under investigation, according to sheriff's spokeswoman Robin Haynal. The driver of the Corvette, identified by authorities as Luis Fernando Escobedo, 21, was arrested for investigation of felony evading. Carrion and Escobedo had left a party at the home of Carrion's parents to drive to a store, said the airman's wife, Mariela. A woman who answered the telephone at the Montclair home of Carrion's parents said they were headed to the hospital and nobody at the residence wanted to talk. An Air Force spokesman, Lt. Frank Hartnett, said Carrion is a security officer at Barksdale Air Force Base in Shreveport, La. Carrion joined the Air Force in January 2003 and recently returned from a six-month tour in Iraq, Hartnett

source of text

video.google.com...#

Google Video Link

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by Anusuia

 

Read the article. The search warrant was attempted at 9:00 AM.

So all this about "dead of night raid like theives in the night" stuff is totally wrong.

If you think he was murdered by the government because he knew something that is one thing. I would disagree with you. But at least read the article and know all the facts first.

OMG...are you one of the SWAT members involved?

There's no justification for this case, everything you have listed is ineffective flailing. What, they opened fire then ran and hid behind their vehicles, scared to assess the scene?

How are you POSSIBLY coming to the conclusion he is defending the actions of this SWAT team by clarifying facts about the issue? He said absolutely NOTHING in 'defense' of this action whatsoever.

Now you'll probably accuse ME of defending them for pointing this out.

In addition, the real questionable act here is that they allegedly left him to die without medical help. There is no evidence yet that they went in un-announced, and when they DID enter the home they encountered an armed man pointing a gun at them (both sides agree that this happened). Now, obviously polcie are allowed to shoot a person who is pointing a weapon at them.

So quite getting sidetracked with your emotional anti-cop rants based on speculative information from a clearly biased article.

No, I wont be surprised when most of you ignore the facts I am pointing out in favor of claiming I am saying there is nothing fishy about this story.

That's what happens when you point a semiautomatic rifle at police officers.

lewrockwell.com doesn't strike me as a credible source either.

ATS should ask that users cite multiple sources before posting something of this nature.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

In my personal experience, I nearly caused a fire-fight because when they breached my door, my companions who were right up by the door ran to the rear of the house yelling we were being robbed and to grab the guns. So according to them, the police didn't announce themselves even once, just knocked and smashed the front door. The front door only led to the porch and then another door that needed to be breached.

So while they were breaching both front doors, I had done grabbed a assault rifle and was preparing to start letting RIP through the walls! I think with dread of what would have happened had I done that! The police would have riddled the house with bullets! All of this because, the police don't WANT to announce police too loudly! They don't want to give the dealer time to flush the product.

If this is true, which I doubt it is then you are a very unsafe person to be having a fire arm. Who are you Tony Montana or something? Someone says grab the guns so you prepare to start shooting blindly through walls with an AK-47?

So what stopped you from killing everyone? What was the cops response to finding you with an AK-47? Did you have time to flush your dugs?

I think you embellished a little no?

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by Anusuia

 

Read the article. The search warrant was attempted at 9:00 AM.

So all this about "dead of night raid like theives in the night" stuff is totally wrong.

If you think he was murdered by the government because he knew something that is one thing. I would disagree with you. But at least read the article and know all the facts first.

OMG...are you one of the SWAT members involved?

There's no justification for this case, everything you have listed is ineffective flailing. What, they opened fire then ran and hid behind their vehicles, scared to assess the scene?

How are you POSSIBLY coming to the conclusion he is defending the actions of this SWAT team by clarifying facts about the issue? He said absolutely NOTHING in 'defense' of this action whatsoever.

Now you'll probably accuse ME of defending them for pointing this out.

I come to the conclusion that he's throwing straw all around. He gave every excuse he could (i'm sure the SWAT members are considering them all also) of what may have happened.

Referring to the story, there is no justification! As a former U.S. Ranger who has kicked a few doors in his time, I can tell you that you do not kick a door, see someone armed and just open fire. You should be in a position of cover to where its safe to give a order to the suspect. However, it does happen, even in training, that the first through is sometime trigger happy and scared and lets rip...that person is always gigged in training. What if the perp has placed the weapon in the hand of a hostage? You've just burnt the hostage! It's the reason you give an order IF you haven't taken fire.

Lets bypass this and say I have opened fire (I was scared and my finger slipped). My 2,3,and 4 might pop off a few shots also. Combined we would not fire 71 SHOTS! These guys had to have either still been in training or were trigger happy to the 3rd degree!

Now, since I'm a trained professional, I don't shoot with my eyes closed! I would know if any of my rounds or my associates rounds struck the suspect...people usually flinch or drop when shot. I would get back behind cover and the squad leader would access the situation. With no further returning fire, we'd complete the breach and begin securing the situation, even if the guy being a trained marine probably rolled out the line of fire. All this happens with in seconds, you don't give a suspect time to dig in, reload, call for reinforcements etc. As soon as the firing was over those guys should have been over the suspect ordering him flat on his face, arms out, if he wasn't dead.

The house would be cleared room by room and the ALL CLEAR signal would be given.

What can be gathered from the article, if credible, indicates every one of those officers need be relieved of duty and inprisoned.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
In addition, the real questionable act here is that they allegedly left him to die without medical help. There is no evidence yet that they went in un-announced, and when they DID enter the home they encountered an armed man pointing a gun at them (both sides agree that this happened). Now, obviously polcie are allowed to shoot a person who is pointing a weapon at them.

So quite getting sidetracked with your emotional anti-cop rants based on speculative information from a clearly biased article.

No, I wont be surprised when most of you ignore the facts I am pointing out in favor of claiming I am saying there is nothing fishy about this story.

They don't technically go in unannounced, but it may as well be. They give 1 or 2 hard knocks, yell police and the door comes crashing in. The problem with this situation is the guy was sleep, he wouldn't have heard any of this. At the least he was disoriented from being awoken by his wife saying there were guys with guns outside.

Don't know about you, but when my wife wakes me from a deep sleep scared, the first thing I do is grab my gun and run to go confront the problem. I've had it happen PERSONALLY! Man...you're fresh out the bed, your vision isn't even clear yet, you're in your draws or nude, and all you know is you have to protect your family!

My guess is the guy didn't hear the "POLICE" introduction, all he heard was his door being kicked. That's why he yelled something about having something for them. Unless this guy was running pounds of coke or had murdered or raped someone, there was no reason for him to confront the police in such a manner. Even big drug dealers don't greet the police in that manner!

Also we don't know how large the house is. Could he have heard the announcement where he was sleeping even if he were wake.

***Dayum, was just talking to my brother on the phone last night who lives in New Orleans. He tells me the police just kicked his door in because his NEIGHBOR across the hall sells dope and they got the apartments mixed up***

Your point about police being allowed to shoot someone pointing a gun at them is correct, but you don't just open a hail of bullets to the tune of 71 bullets! You also should give an order and announce yourself as police again.

The sad thing is you will defend this crap until something happens to YOU and you get assaulted by the police for nothing, and yes it happens. I know two people who were shot up by the police because of mistaken identity and a shoot first attitude...one of them is quite wealthy now.

horrendous......... 71 shots seems somewhat excessive to say the least. Sometimes I wonder what the hell has happened to the home of the brave

Originally posted by sputniksteve

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

In my personal experience, I nearly caused a fire-fight because when they breached my door, my companions who were right up by the door ran to the rear of the house yelling we were being robbed and to grab the guns. So according to them, the police didn't announce themselves even once, just knocked and smashed the front door. The front door only led to the porch and then another door that needed to be breached.

So while they were breaching both front doors, I had done grabbed a assault rifle and was preparing to start letting RIP through the walls! I think with dread of what would have happened had I done that! The police would have riddled the house with bullets! All of this because, the police don't WANT to announce police too loudly! They don't want to give the dealer time to flush the product.

If this is true, which I doubt it is then you are a very unsafe person to be having a fire arm. Who are you Tony Montana or something? Someone says grab the guns so you prepare to start shooting blindly through walls with an AK-47?

So what stopped you from killing everyone? What was the cops response to finding you with an AK-47? Did you have time to flush your dugs?

I think you embellished a little no?

All of it is true, it was the world I lived in for a while. When you're dealing, robbery is as much a priority as the police! When dope boy robbers come for you, they aren't too keen on leaving survivors because they suspect you will eventually find out who was responsible and you're coming back to pop their grey matter all over street.

A lot of you don't know how viscious and cut throat it is in these streets, you never really lived it. I've lived and survived it.

So all the guys who were upfront ran to the back where I was at yelling we were being robbed. I locked my door, grabbed the "bin laden" and was about to let rip when I noticed a voice was white. Me and the guy who ran in the room with me looked at each other and was like, "Maaaann...that's those PEOPLE (police)". So I laid my gun down and just sat there. They got to my room and were attempting to kick the door in. Funny thing is they couldn't because that one room had a door that swung out unlike most other bedroom doors. They kicked for about a minute and the kicks got softer and softer, LOL!

Oh forgot that another guy who ran in the room jumped out my window. What little dope that was left was thrown out the window behind him so everything was pretty clean. So thinking the room was pretty clean, I went head and unlocked the room door and laid face down on the floor. Task force came in, secured the room, found my gun and had a huge , they thought they had a good case.

We all went to jail that day and sat for a few months while they built their case. I was charged with Armed trafficking. Even though they didn't find much dope. Everyone knew all we had to do was sit and keep our mouths closed. I'm not a felon, so in Florida, my gun was completely legal.

I was released in a few months without ever going to court. I then called the DA and asked may I have my gun back and was at first told no. I asked why, I hadn't been convicted of anything so what right do they have to keep my property. I got a lawyer involved who talked to the DA and wallah, I even got my Bin Laden back.