(To christians... ) So.... just hypothetically....what if Jesus returns... (Serious responses only p

reply to post by KJV1611

"That's a pretty weak excuse and argument pal. The verse quoted WAS about Jesus's return to earth during the second advent. Just because you don't understand the Bible nor what is in it, doesn't mean you should ignore every verse in the Bible that was wrote when Jesus wasn't walking around in the flesh. You have much to
learn. MUCH.

I do have a sound understanding of both christian and islamic eschatology. Thank you very much.

Also, the chapter of Zephaniah was written long before Jesus was sent to earth. So, you are only presenting your interpretation of Zephaniah.

The comment on the united nations not being in the Bible isn't even worth comment on my part"

Well, which part of the bible mentions the "united nations" by name:? Tell me.

Oh wait... you will probably quote something that YOU interpret as being the UN... In that case, dont bother.]

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Your hypothesis describes the AC.

The sword refers to the Word of God.

Have you seen the film Dogma? God is depicted as having a voice so powerful that any mortal who hears his actual voice, will likely perish.

Sound, the power of music and the ancient and lost art of acoustic alchemy.

No warlord in sight!

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


American forefathers said to keep arms and overthrow a tyrannical regime and they are praised as hero's. Jesus said to own a sword, which is most likely a metaphor, and he is violent?

The fact that he never said to lift your sword and strike anyone still means he is violent? If Jesus returns I will hope I am saved if not than it was my own mistakes that lead me to my demise. Will he be violent when he returns? Me answering this would mean I am making an assumption based on something that might have incorrect translations.

reply to post by teapot

Your hypothesis describes the AC.

It does not.
The AC will be a major political figure controlling an army/technology. The AC will not fight for the sake of a religion. The hypothetical "guerilla Jesus" would be the exact opposite, in the sense that he will be religious and will fight for a religious cause.

The sword refers to the Word of God.

In some places yes.
But then there are places when he clearly meant a literal sword whether or not he endorsed violence, like when he asked them to sell their cloak and buy a sword and when he implied that he would bring the opposite of peace. (Note that he goes on to talk of divisions between people)
If sword was symbolic of the word of God, then Jesus, could have simply said so.

Please note that Jesus used violence when he deemed it necassary... like when he physically threw out the money changers. This goes with the hypothetical "guerilla" Jesus of the OP, who wages a war against irreligious forces (of the AC).

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


um... what about "apocrypha". In other words, ancient scriptures that the church doesn't like any more, but don't have any more or less historical validity then the books we do like.

reply to post by renegadeloser


Apocryphya would still be a christian document, regardless of whether or not the church deems it cannonical.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


fair enough... gnostic texts though?

reply to post by renegadeloser


Gnostic texts also talk about religious concepts found in "church approved" texts.

My point was that the notion of Jesus returning to slay the anti-christ is common to both Christianity and Islam. (with a few differences in details of course, but the premise is the same)

Of course, some christians will tell you that the Mahdi is the messiah that the muslims await, but thats not so.
The mahdi is an islamic hero, but is not the messiah... because in Islam Jesus is given the title of "the messiah" (al-masih).

This common ground between christianity and islam is what gave me the idea of Jesus possibly returning as an islamic fighter... completely unrecognized by the christians.

Well , for those that see Jesus as a Pacifist , I offer this. He actually sounds quite capable of saying enough is enough and saying it in a voice that will be hard to ignore.

He'll be returning with an army of angels to judge the world.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


If Islam is correct, then of course Jesus will come back as a Islamic warrior. He won't be fighter for any other religion if Islam is true. So I would say that this is very possible. Interesting thread.

reply to post by arpgme


Heres the shocker...
I read on an islamic eschatology site that the mahdi would actually be of Israelite descent (!!!!)... and that most of his army would be Israelites.. The lines between Islam and christianity are starting to blur.

Most people assume that Islam is all about Arab supremacy and is opposed to everything Israelite. What they dont understand is that Islam holds the Israelite prophets in high regard. For instance, names like Ibrahim (Abraham), Ishaaq (Isaac), Dawood (David), Yakoob (Jacob), Moosa (Moses) are very common among muslims.

Islam seems to be aligned with the basic concepts of monotheism preached in the bible and has several similarities to christian eschatology. Its unwise to simply disregard everything Islam has to say regarding the future.

Jesus might have said, had he had an ATS account, "Throw off thy cloak and buy two internets."

But we all know he's talking about bringing the power (those with) to slay annoying bastards out of the shadows.

-Non

I dont understand why this was moved into the psychology/metaphysics part of the ATS.

Can a mod move it back into the religion section please. While the theme of this thread is hypothetical, I have backed it up with verses that point towards a violent side of Jesus, which forms the basis for this thread idea.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by teapot

 

Your hypothesis describes the AC.

It does not.
The AC will be a major political figure controlling an army/technology. The AC will not fight for the sake of a religion. The hypothetical "guerilla Jesus" would be the exact opposite, in the sense that he will be religious and will fight for a religious cause.

I cannot agree with this. The AC will be low-born, enter a place of worship, ie a religion, subvert it and find within in it, many worshipers. Once the AC achieves ascendancy amongst the nations by acts of war that remove the people of God who cause so much distress and opposition by speaking Truth, he will demand worship from all the peoples of the Earth.

Jesus has already experienced life on the human plane, born of woman. The Lamb will not.

But then there are places when he clearly meant a literal sword whether or not he endorsed violence, like when he asked them to sell their cloak and buy a sword and when he implied that he would bring the opposite of peace. (Note that he goes on to talk of divisions between people)
If sword was symbolic of the word of God, then Jesus, could have simply said so.

Jesus spoke in parables and used the Socratic method, inviting people to open their minds and think for themselves

Please note that Jesus used violence when he deemed it necassary... like when he physically threw out the money changers. This goes with the hypothetical "guerilla" Jesus of the OP, who wages a war against irreligious forces (of the AC).

The Bible recounts how Jesus was moved to ire, turned over the tables of the money-changers and ejected them from the Temple courtyards. It does not allude to physical violence toward the person. The Bible also refers to comments that Jesus did not speak as the scribes and pharisees but rather as a man of authority. Again, speach, the power of the Word.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
...to be labelled and identified as a terrorist, insurgent, rebel etc.?



(First read these two quotes....

1. Quote 1...

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Matthew 10:34)

Ask yourselves honestly... will you simply dismiss this as being symbolic or metaporical? Do you think certain christian groups would not have brought this up in their arguments against a certain other prophet?



2. Quote 2...

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38)

Note that jesus insisted that they buy a sword...and the disciples did not seem surprised upon hearing that, and simply replied that they have two.)

What if it was Mohammad whp said these words?




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------




ok now, imagine that we are futher in the end times have begun.
Imagine a scenario where current events have escalated. Pakistan has become the next major flashpoint. Islam is continued to be viewed as a threat by both christians and irreligious people.

More regimes are overthrown... the turmoil in the middle east continues.
Current wars continue to grind on with no end in sight. All we see on the MSM are more lies and deceptions by TPTB. Events have occured (perhaps, a major natural disaster or a strange natural phenomena not yet experienced by our generation) that change the way of life as we understand it. Meanwhile, Western and European nations continue to witness the decay of christian culture and the rise of an irreligious national lifestyle.

One of half of the world is a place where societies allow religion to mauled open in the name of "secularism" and "free speech", but in the other half..., those who take up arms for a religious beliefs are labelled as a threat to the civilized world...as "insurgents" or "terrorists". There suddenly appears a skilled guerilla warfare commander... who will be labelled by the MSM as an "islamist terrorist". He will be extremely religious. He will fight for his religious beliefs against a government/ruling authority that is far from religious. He would be portrayed in the media as a typical islamic extremist. Beard, turban, AK, RPG... the works.


And then... this character turns out to be none other than.... Jesus Christ.

How would you all react?

edit on 10-5-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-5-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit : I had to modify the title. Serious reponses only.

edit on 10-5-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-5-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." Matthew 26:64

Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. Mark 13:26

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelations 1:7

Put these together with a quick search, could have pulled from other texts (Gnostic, Catharic, etc..) but I think this makes the point nonetheless. I seriously don't see Jesus needing an RPG, or a turban for that matter...may wear one for the nostalgia factor though.

A lot of hateful posts on this thread, done out of ignorance. Back to the topic, Skorpion, the question ought to read, "What when Christ returns?" For the name given to his earthly tabernacle/vessel at the first coming was Jesus; but the name given to his earthly tabernacle/vessel at the last coming shall remain a secret untill his purpose has been fulfilled.

Peace be with you!!!

reply to post by teapot

I cannot agree with this. The AC will be low-born, enter a place of worship, ie a religion, subvert it and find within in it, many worshipers. Once the AC achieves ascendancy amongst the nations by acts of war that remove the people of God who cause so much distress and opposition by speaking Truth, he will demand worship from all the peoples of the Earth.

My point was that, at the time Jesus confronts the AC, the AC would be in a position of power... Not much is said about the ACs course to power.
The source materials for the concept of anti-christ does not specify that the AC will be "low-born".

The Bible recounts how Jesus was moved to ire, turned over the tables of the money-changers and ejected them from the Temple courtyards. It does not allude to physical violence toward the person. The Bible also refers to comments that Jesus did not speak as the scribes and pharisees but rather as a man of authority. Again, speach, the power of the Word.

It still remains that Jesus threw them out... which is not exactly the same as asking them to leav Its not as if that verse is symbolic. We can conclude that Jesus who was human, did not hesitate to use physical force when required to.

reply to post by Conchobar


Islam also has an image of Jesus descending from the clouds.

But once he is on earth, his mission is to fight the AC. Jesus could appear as an mujahideen, like the one who fought back the non-religious Russian army.

I seriously don't see Jesus needing an RPG, or a turban for that matter...may wear one for the nostalgia factor though.

Of course Jesus does not need an RPG to get things done.
But there is also a decent chance that Islamic beliefs and eschatology are correct. (you may think its wrong by default, but thats just your opinion) Consider that Islamic prophecy also present a somewhat more realistic account of end time events involving Jesus.

So just what if..what if the returning Jesus turned out to be someone portrayed as an islamic militant.

Jesus returns each day when the sun rises..then he leaves when the sun goes down to return again the next day.

This is the most serious and truthful answer you will get as long as this thread is up.