Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag and tell to Federal Grand Jury!

I just think it's sort of ironic that people ARE willing to believe the previous report of his death, but NOT believe it now. Whatever is convenient to your belief system, eh?

I imagine back then, people on conspiracy boards were saying the same thing.. "omg, it's a false report, he isn't dead!" He is never going to die.. he is immortal!

Someone who hasn't worked for the U.S. Government since the Carter Administration over 30 years ago is hardly a "Top Government Insider." This is extreme propoganda and gross exageration that is posted to help boost a story that is otherwise without any merit whatsoever.

As the notorious fence-sitter than I am I feel the need to break down some of the issues that stand-out to me and also things that don't add up on BOTH sides of the debate.

I have followed the Alex Jones interviews carefully and there is no doubt that this is a huge scoop but it's far from being convincing.

My first problem is when Pieczenik says that Marfan Syndrome ALWAYS results in a drastically shortened life expectancy and due to the fact that Bin Laden had it --according to second hand reports-- he couldn't therefore still be alive.

Bin Laden was 54 when he was allegedly "killed" by the SEALS the other day. There are plenty of people over the age of 54 with Marfan Syndrome so even if he did have it, which is far from being confirmed, it alone doesn't guarantee that he would have been dead. The fact that Pieczenik is a doctor and would know this to be true but says clearly that he couldn't still be alive discredited everything else he said for me slightly. His kidney problems are also light on firm details. It's "pretty much" confirmed that he did have kidney problems but there is no hard evidence telling us just how severe the problem was. For me his health cannot be used as conclusive proof that he would not have survived until 2011. No strong evidence tells us that at the moment.

Benazir Bhutto's claim that Osama was murdered of course contradicts the "on ice" theory and she is, again, not a fully reliable source. A compelling one but not reliable. She was the President of Pakistan. It would have been in her great interest for everyone to think that Osama was dead since her priority would be to get the Americans out of Pakistan. She is also only telling us this information from what I assume her intelligence has been told. Osama would of course want to be thought of as deceased and disinformation is far from beyond his capabilities.

Pieczenik definitely has some very interesting credentials and the fact that he is making noise about testifying in front of a Grand Jury makes him more credible than most but we do not know much about what his own personal agendas are. He is a great source but let's keep it all in perspective and make sure to scrutinize and do the research on "our" source to make sure he checks out instead of just blindly accepting what he says because he's "Jack Ryan".

Those are some of my problems with the "on ice" theory. But the problems with the official account are myriad as well. Throwing Osama in to the Arabian sea is a massive red flag and the reasons given for doing so are not very strong. We are now also being denied ever seeing the photographic evidence of his death so have nothing but the word of the Obama Administration to go on.

Conflicting reports of what exactly went down in the compound have been changing constantly since the story broke and we still don't know much about the other people who were living there. Why did they leave the injured wife behind for the Pakistani security forces to pick up when she is clearly an important person to pick up? One of many unanswered questions.

The choreography for this event has also been very timely for Obama. He has been losing a massive amount of support from moderate America recently and his bid for a second term was looking very shaky. He releases the birth certificate and tells a few jokes at the WHCD and then has this massive story and massive win for him turning the issue of him being American or not on its head and completley moot. Now Americans WANT him to be one of them because he nailed Osama so by proxy so did they.

Score one for USA pride and bad-assery (if that's a word), ect.

It's all a bit too perfect but again that's not evidence on its own. I really don't know which side I'm leaning more to at the moment but there is no doubt that we cannot call this one for either team yet.

Just as predicted by the Galactics. The time for the truth to come out is indeed NOW! Expect the truth to come out fast and furious, like making up for the lost times. In no time, disclosure about the presence of our space brothers and sisters will be announced by Obama. That will be the great game changer when they can finally reveal themselves and can openly help us with our problems.

news.yahoo.com...

Al Qaida confirms Osoma was killed in the raid. They vow vengeance. Is wife confirms it. But let me guess they are all Paid CIA operatives right? What is she 12?

114 Stars lol wow so does this become a real flag op? How many times does this have to happen before people come back to reality?

reply to post by wtbengineer
Hi, yeah that's a fair point which I looked into. The whole Benazir Bhutto thing is a wild goose chase, because she simply mispoke in that interview and corrected herself shortly afterwards...

Cheers, SJ

Fox news in late 2001

Originally posted by USAF8307
Someone who hasn't worked for the U.S. Government since the Carter Administration over 30 years ago is hardly a "Top Government Insider." This is extreme propoganda and gross exageration that is posted to help boost a story that is otherwise without any merit whatsoever.

Just a question... about your post with respect to the merit of historically being a government official.

Was the American governments propaganda and gross exaggeration nullified in any way over 30 years ago... or ever...?

Was history erased or does it start to be relevant at point I am unaware of...

Agreed just because your supposed to have some integrity and ethics as a government official does not make everything you say true... Clinton, Nixon, Wilson, etc etc etc.....................

Does Clinton's history get erased after 30 years?

Can he no longer say he was noodled as The President because that would be propaganda and gross exaggeration.

If you disagree just disagree..

Thanks.

Excuse me......but if Osama was supposedly killed on 1st May around 1am, why are photos flying over the net dated 2nd May at 2.39am of 3 corpses? or should I say it appears by the normal eye they are dead in photos that were supposed to had been taken by Pakistanis yet the puddle of blood looks fresh and the lips of the corpses has'nt changed colour.....24 hours later! Thats impossible.

hmmmmmm must be fake again LOL

Originally posted by scottyb
reply to post by wtbengineer

 

Hi, yeah that's a fair point which I looked into. The whole Benazir Bhutto thing is a wild goose chase, because she simply mispoke in that interview and corrected herself shortly afterwards...

Cheers, SJ

No, she didn't. If she had misspoke. David Frost would have corrected her. Instead, he said nothing because he had been taken back by her statement. Why, if she had misspoke, would she mention the name of the very man who wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta? The very man whose ISI handler was one of the three men she had named plotting to kill her? The very man falsely convicted for the murder of Wall St journalist Daniel Pearl? Why would the BBC censor her explosive revelation by deleting this passage of the interview when they archived it on their website? Someone told them to do this because it was a top secret revelation that should not have been made public.

No, there is NO evidence that Mrs Bhutto misspoke. That's just YOUR way of dealing with a highly informed and credible individual saying something that contradicts what YOU want to believe.

Originally posted by Opspeculate

Originally posted by USAF8307
Someone who hasn't worked for the U.S. Government since the Carter Administration over 30 years ago is hardly a "Top Government Insider." This is extreme propoganda and gross exageration that is posted to help boost a story that is otherwise without any merit whatsoever.

Just a question... about your post with respect to the merit of historically being a government official.

Was the American governments propaganda and gross exaggeration nullified in any way over 30 years ago... or ever...?

Was history erased or does it start to be relevant at point I am unaware of...

Agreed just because your supposed to have some integrity and ethics as a government official does not make everything you say true... Clinton, Nixon, Wilson, etc etc etc.....................

Does Clinton's history get erased after 30 years?

Can he no longer say he was noodled as The President because that would be propaganda and gross exaggeration.

If you disagree just disagree..

Thanks.

Thank you for the question and I hope I can clarify my stance. When someone is on the U.S. Government payroll, they are privvey to information that those outside of the government are (but virtually always-only within their need to know). However, once they receive their last paycheck, the information they receive is no longer valid. They simply are not on the "inside" to know what's going on. As such, this guy referenced in the post as a "Top Government Insider," specifically Steve R. Pieczenik, is not a current government employee and has not received State Department level information for over 30 years. In fact, when Dr. Pieczenik was working in the state Dept, Bin Laden was just getting to Afghanistan as a low-level resistant fighter against Russia. Since he no longer works for the State Department, his opinion on 9/11 can be as valid as yours or mine.
For example, I was in the Air Force for 25 years, but have been retired for 4 years. When I was active duty, if I were to present an opinion about an aircraft or a military deployment, you can be rest assured that it came from a much more valid source than if I were to give the same opinion 4 years after my retirement date.

Originally posted by JerryB08
news.yahoo.com...

Al Qaida confirms Osoma was killed in the raid. They vow vengeance. Is wife confirms it. But let me guess they are all Paid CIA operatives right? What is she 12?

114 Stars lol wow so does this become a real flag op? How many times does this have to happen before people come back to reality?

edit on 5/6/2011 by JerryB08 because: (no reason given)

Al-Qaida on Friday confirmed the killing of Osama bin Laden and warned of retaliation, saying Americans' "happiness will turn to sadness."

The confirmation came in an Internet statement posted on militant websites, signed by "the general leadership" of al-Qaida.

yeah that's a great source for information isn't it......

I disagree. Osama Bin Laden did not die of kidney disease those many years ago.

In fact, he was still actively involved in the planing of terrorist actions including an attack on U.S. railways.

The reason why all the facts are muddled up is that people are putting out fake photoshopped pictures of Osama when in actuality none of the video has been released yet.

The story keeps changing because the west wonders what kind of reaction they are getting from Osama sympathizers. They are changing the story to see which story causes the least violent reaction.

So far the story goes that Osama restricted himself to 2 rooms, he ran into one and was within reach of firearms. He threw one of his wives at a Navy SEAL and she charged. The SEAL shot her in the leg.

One of Osama's sons was shot dead. All the other children and wives are alive.

About 24 people were killed.

No SEAL casualties.

One helicopter was destroyed.

Some people in Pakistan may be selling some top secret technology from the destroyed helicopter to the Chinese.

SEALs got a lot of data from Osama including terrorist plans. Lots.

Originally posted by USAF8307

Originally posted by Opspeculate

Originally posted by USAF8307
Someone who hasn't worked for the U.S. Government since the Carter Administration over 30 years ago is hardly a "Top Government Insider." This is extreme propoganda and gross exageration that is posted to help boost a story that is otherwise without any merit whatsoever.

Just a question... about your post with respect to the merit of historically being a government official.

Was the American governments propaganda and gross exaggeration nullified in any way over 30 years ago... or ever...?

Was history erased or does it start to be relevant at point I am unaware of...

Agreed just because your supposed to have some integrity and ethics as a government official does not make everything you say true... Clinton, Nixon, Wilson, etc etc etc.....................

Does Clinton's history get erased after 30 years?

Can he no longer say he was noodled as The President because that would be propaganda and gross exaggeration.

If you disagree just disagree..

Thanks.

Thank you for the question and I hope I can clarify my stance. When someone is on the U.S. Government payroll, they are privvey to information that those outside of the government are (but virtually always-only within their need to know). However, once they receive their last paycheck, the information they receive is no longer valid. They simply are not on the "inside" to know what's going on. As such, this guy referenced in the post as a "Top Government Insider," specifically Steve R. Pieczenik, is not a current government employee and has not received State Department level information for over 30 years. In fact, when Dr. Pieczenik was working in the state Dept, Bin Laden was just getting to Afghanistan as a low-level resistant fighter against Russia. Since he no longer works for the State Department, his opinion on 9/11 can be as valid as yours or mine.
For example, I was in the Air Force for 25 years, but have been retired for 4 years. When I was active duty, if I were to present an opinion about an aircraft or a military deployment, you can be rest assured that it came from a much more valid source than if I were to give the same opinion 4 years after my retirement date.

That really is a great point... I am thinking further though and was wondering if once you are in the know you are always in the know to some degree via the ties you make and some you never break for whatever reason.

A recent example although not a very good one, it is fresh in our minds....

"Earlier this evening, President Obama called to inform me (GW) that American forces killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of the al Qaeda network that attacked America on September 11, 2001.

Although knowing this was going to be released anyway is not the point I am making but why would a government official call an apparently privileged civilian or rather former government official now civilian to tell him of the sensitive not classified news before anyone else when he can get it the same way every other civilian does... ATS... :-)

Or do government officials kinda sorta remain government officials and get access to info we don't before we do and also get to probe the source we don't.

You would think Bush of all people with a Hard-ON for UBL would say show me because a phone call shorty after the op would be kinda presumptuous but of course as a former government official now civilian he may have got to see the photo's of UBL and question the source direct as a former government official now civilian to convince him.

I want my phone call as a civilian and a chance to probe the source of relevant sensitive or classified data to feel convinced as GW seems to be.

This game of life would be better if we had a ref to make these calls..

I am asking 2 min for interference in the penalty box for sure coach...

Thanks man

For all of those who believe this is a conspiracy, lets think logically for one second before jumping on a bandwagon because of what one man says, for money.

We have proof the raid did happen. We found out we had a stealth helicopter not too many people knew about, and now it's in Pakistan's hands, and more than likely the chinese are now looking at it.

We know Osama's family was in that compound. There are pictures of his dead son, his wives were there. This isn't conspiracy, this is real, and you can see the proof for yourself. Now we all wonder: we haven't seen a picture of Osama's dead body so how do we know he's dead? That is still a good question, I would like to see the photos. However, we know this mission was a risky one, and we know the government took that risk because they were very confident he was there.

Now lets think of Al-Qaeda. The top leaders among Osama would know where he was at, that's a fact. He wasnt using cellphones, he was using runners to contact other leaders considering it'd be easier for us to find him if he was using cellphones. Those in Al-Qaeda, not all, but definitely the other leaders knew his position, thats a given. They are now saying that yes, he is dead and it's time to revolt againt us. We all know, if the leaders knew where Osama was, they don't need photographic proof. If they knew the day after the raid, or when they found out "oh ****, that's where Osama was" then they know we got him and he is dead. So why are they now saying YES he was killed? Let me guess, are they all members of the CIA?

It doesn't hold water, and doesn't make sense. Are these terrorist organizations all over the world, responsible for global deaths, all CIA agents? If not, are they somehow on our side and want to trick the American people into thinking Osama is dead? You think they would be saying "he's still alive" if they wanted to stir trouble. Instead they are admitting he was killed in the compound, and now want those to rise against us.

All I know is there is much evidence that supports all of this happened, the only thing we are not being given is a photo of Osama. Which, somewhere down the line that photo will be released. So in the end, there were Al-Qaeda leaders who knew where Osama was, and when they found out that compound was raided, with his family in it, they knew at that moment that's where their leader was, and they knew he had no escape and we got him. They aren't denying it.

Conspiracy theories are interesting, but sometimes the truth really is as it seems. If you notice, most people who believe in one CT believe in 99% of the CT out there, and will keep telling you that your wrong and your the sheeple, when in fact (in some cases) it's the other way around.

reply to post by JerryB08


I just wrote a post about this. And said the same thing as you. They are all CIA agents man, don't let the government fool you

Dr. Steve Pieczenik is on the show again today!!! Listen here - www.infowars.com...

Originally posted by Opspeculate
[
That really is a great point... I am thinking further though and was wondering if once you are in the know you are always in the know to some degree via the ties you make and some you never break for whatever reason.

With the exception of historical research for the presidential archives, former cabinet members that were appointed by the President, and a former President/Vice Present, once you no longer have the need to know, you can't get it. (Presidential Executive Order on Classified National Security Information, para 4.4)
Now, just because they can access it, doesn't mean they do. I'm quite certain that in the hours leading up to the raid, Obama didn't interupt his golf game call George what he was going to do, but it was reported that immediately after the raid and the suspected confirmation of his death, George was notified prior to release to the press as a courtesy.
Bottom line to remember though, the unauthorized release of classified information to anyone not in the need to know, regardless of its importance, results in jail time. I don't know about you, but I was never willing to take that chance, no matter how bad I wanted to tell and I'm quite confident most people aren't.

reply to post by conar


I can actually verify that the part in the fox news stories about the the zoom helicopters is partially if not totally true.

Back around 5 or six years ago my cousin was interested in purchasing an ice cream truck so that he could make some extra money selling ice cream to kids. So we went up to a city called Pleasanton near San Francisco to purchase a truck from someone my cousin found. I went with him so I could drive his car back while he drives the truck. Im not too sure how he found the seller. But the guy he purchasing the truck for was selling it for his uncle who moved back to Israel. My cousin was negotiating the price so he called his uncle in Israel to see if he would accept my cousin's offer. The deal ended up going through. When my cousin got the ice cream truck there were about five large boxes filled with those zoom helicopters that they gave him for free with the truck.

Dont know if they guy he bought the truck from was involved in any kind of intelleigence gathering or was part of the military, but the guy he got all the free helicopters from was an israeli who moved back to Israel. Im positive about the helicpoter because my cousin was never able to sell all the helicopters he got for free and i still see one of his kids playing with them when he goes outside.

reply to post by daggyz


No the video and the audio tapes only referred to al qaida attacks that occurred after 2001. They did not refer to outside events, no earthquakes, no natural disasters, no significant anything other than al qaida attacks that are planned years in advance...

Believe me, as soon as I heard that they had released tapes confirming he was still alive, I paid CLOSE attention, considering that I was nvolved in the operations that had buried him and to someone's earlier query as to why his people haven't dug him up, We buried the mountain on top of him. we knew he was in a cave complex, not a specific cave, so we just levelled the whole thing (cave complex that is). It would take them years to dig it up and even then, the chances of having an identifiable corpse would be virtually nil...

Now all of that is contingent on them not taking his body out of the cave complex prior to the strike.

The imagery evidence that supports we buried him, would also support him having died of natural causes right before the strike, so what I know supports the Dr's story...

Jaden